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Anyone registered as a member of Emmet og are suspended from all activity involving playing, coaching, managing, reffing from U16 up to Senior men's! Two of counties best players Mickey Quinn and Daniel Mimnagh gone from county team! The county have a shortage of refs already now its even shorter! If suspension is up held Killoe will be banned till next July half way thru a season! A lot of players will have gone at that stage l reckon! Its a joke!

coach13 (Longford) - Posts: 94 - 12/08/2020 07:30:28    2287299

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Unbelievable decision to hand down such an extreme ban given the amount in question and the fact that Killoe had an open appeal lodged with the Leinster Council that was delayed because of Covid. And to extend that to all players mentors referees etc right down to u16. Given what was reputed to have taken place at county board level over the central issue and the referee, it seems incredible that the CB would take such a draconian stance.
Add in the fact that there is a wider need to get teams back playing and youngsters out active again, the mind boggles. I'd be surprised if it was upheld.

shootfromthelip (Longford) - Posts: 20 - 12/08/2020 11:35:05    2287334

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Can't see the Killoe ban being upheld. No reasonable arbitrator would find it proportional. Usual suspects at county board side making trouble to cover their backs. Lots of dishonesty and crookedness in the mix too which will hopefully get exposed. County board overplayed their hand massively so they can expect blowback. An astonishing misstep by county board officials in letting it go this far. Will probably delay things by a week or two but the national coverage will probably accelerate a decision on the original U16 appeal from Leinster and that will be that. Fair play to Killoe for standing their ground. This could be any club and the behaviours around this are not acceptable in this day and age.

arcadia (Longford) - Posts: 163 - 12/08/2020 11:39:51    2287335

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Replying To arcadia:  "Can't see the Killoe ban being upheld. No reasonable arbitrator would find it proportional. Usual suspects at county board side making trouble to cover their backs. Lots of dishonesty and crookedness in the mix too which will hopefully get exposed. County board overplayed their hand massively so they can expect blowback. An astonishing misstep by county board officials in letting it go this far. Will probably delay things by a week or two but the national coverage will probably accelerate a decision on the original U16 appeal from Leinster and that will be that. Fair play to Killoe for standing their ground. This could be any club and the behaviours around this are not acceptable in this day and age."
Should they not have paid the fine pending their appeal? They should've played the U16 final originally anyway!

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 3869 - 12/08/2020 11:51:42    2287338

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Replying To honlongford:  "Its a 3 way championship lads
Take your pick from killoe, colmcille or mullinalaghta"
I'd rate Abbeylara & Slashers higher than Colmcille.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 3869 - 12/08/2020 11:53:54    2287340

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Replying To arcadia:  "Can't see the Killoe ban being upheld. No reasonable arbitrator would find it proportional. Usual suspects at county board side making trouble to cover their backs. Lots of dishonesty and crookedness in the mix too which will hopefully get exposed. County board overplayed their hand massively so they can expect blowback. An astonishing misstep by county board officials in letting it go this far. Will probably delay things by a week or two but the national coverage will probably accelerate a decision on the original U16 appeal from Leinster and that will be that. Fair play to Killoe for standing their ground. This could be any club and the behaviours around this are not acceptable in this day and age."
This was instigated by the previous county board and not the present.

Nelson39 (Longford) - Posts: 33 - 12/08/2020 12:22:33    2287350

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Replying To keeper7:  "Should they not have paid the fine pending their appeal? They should've played the U16 final originally anyway!"
My understanding is that there was a pending appeal with the Leinster Council when the final was fixed so would it not be odd to play it when you have an objection in place? I would have thought the game would be on hold until that decision came through. And the County Board were notified of this in advance so they knew that when they were organising the match that day and when Colmcille/Dromard were togging out. No idea how the fine works if you are appealing and if your forfeit the latter if you pay. someone close to these things can explain better.

shootfromthelip (Longford) - Posts: 20 - 12/08/2020 13:27:00    2287362

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Replying To Nelson39:  "This was instigated by the previous county board and not the present."
The ban was agreed and handed down by the present county board. The ban by any measure is ridiculous in context of the issue it relates to, not to mention the fact that the issue it relates to is still awaiting appeal hearing with Leinster Council.

arcadia (Longford) - Posts: 163 - 12/08/2020 13:41:51    2287364

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Replying To keeper7:  "Should they not have paid the fine pending their appeal? They should've played the U16 final originally anyway!"
My understanding is that you would not pay any fine relating to an issue under appeal until that appeal is heard and concluded. That has not happened yet. It is also my understanding that when the county board informed Killoe of the ban this week, the club offered to pay the fine in advance to avoid this debacle playing out, and the County Board refused. As to whether Killoe should have played the U16 final or not, that is the subject of the appeal currently sitting with Leinster Council. If the club believed they had a legitimate objection to a player, they are entitled (as are all clubs) to follow that objection to its conclusion before playing the game. That is why the GAA has objections and appeal processes in place. The more interesting element is what happened after Killoe lodged that objection and before the appeal reached Leinster. That is where the real story is here, and where some officials will have serious questions to answer.

arcadia (Longford) - Posts: 163 - 12/08/2020 13:46:08    2287366

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Replying To coach13:  "Anyone registered as a member of Emmet og are suspended from all activity involving playing, coaching, managing, reffing from U16 up to Senior men's! Two of counties best players Mickey Quinn and Daniel Mimnagh gone from county team! The county have a shortage of refs already now its even shorter! If suspension is up held Killoe will be banned till next July half way thru a season! A lot of players will have gone at that stage l reckon! Its a joke!"
Are you sure about the refs and coaching/managing and county players? My understanding is that the club has had its U16, U18, U20, Junior and Senior teams banned from competition for 48 weeks. That would not necessarily mean that members of the club who are separately referees in Longford or coaches/managers of other clubs or members of the county team would also be banned from those activities? It may well be that those members choose (out of solidarity) not to partake in some of those activities, but I didn't think they were 'banned' from refereeing or coaching other clubs or playing for the county per say. Anyone know that for sure?

arcadia (Longford) - Posts: 163 - 12/08/2020 13:58:03    2287368

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Replying To arcadia:  "Are you sure about the refs and coaching/managing and county players? My understanding is that the club has had its U16, U18, U20, Junior and Senior teams banned from competition for 48 weeks. That would not necessarily mean that members of the club who are separately referees in Longford or coaches/managers of other clubs or members of the county team would also be banned from those activities? It may well be that those members choose (out of solidarity) not to partake in some of those activities, but I didn't think they were 'banned' from refereeing or coaching other clubs or playing for the county per say. Anyone know that for sure?"
Yes the killoe refs were taken off the the matches they were due to ref this week. They were informed by text that they were being stood down.

Stato53 (Longford) - Posts: 11 - 12/08/2020 14:52:04    2287372

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Replying To arcadia:  "My understanding is that you would not pay any fine relating to an issue under appeal until that appeal is heard and concluded. That has not happened yet. It is also my understanding that when the county board informed Killoe of the ban this week, the club offered to pay the fine in advance to avoid this debacle playing out, and the County Board refused. As to whether Killoe should have played the U16 final or not, that is the subject of the appeal currently sitting with Leinster Council. If the club believed they had a legitimate objection to a player, they are entitled (as are all clubs) to follow that objection to its conclusion before playing the game. That is why the GAA has objections and appeal processes in place. The more interesting element is what happened after Killoe lodged that objection and before the appeal reached Leinster. That is where the real story is here, and where some officials will have serious questions to answer."
My understanding is you pay the fine. If you win your appeal you will then be reimbursed.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 3869 - 12/08/2020 17:23:38    2287383

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Replying To keeper7:  "My understanding is you pay the fine. If you win your appeal you will then be reimbursed."
According to killoe chairman the club agreed to pay the fine subject to an appeal. So why would they pay the fine before the appeal was heard? This is why there's an appeals procedure in place.

Stato53 (Longford) - Posts: 11 - 12/08/2020 18:41:50    2287386

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Replying To Stato53:  "Yes the killoe refs were taken off the the matches they were due to ref this week. They were informed by text that they were being stood down."
I see. I didn't know that's how it works, and am a bit surprised. Thanks for the insight.

arcadia (Longford) - Posts: 163 - 12/08/2020 21:01:47    2287391

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Replying To Stato53:  "According to killoe chairman the club agreed to pay the fine subject to an appeal. So why would they pay the fine before the appeal was heard? This is why there's an appeals procedure in place."
Either way, in a county with only 21 clubs it is not hard to have reasonable conversations about these things and come to reasonable decisions. A club wanting to hold off paying a fine pending an appeal is not unreasonable. The outcome of a 48 week ban is just mental in the context of the size of the fine and the nature of the issue it relates to. So clearly there was little or no reason used in the approach from CB side. That has unfortunately led to a newsworthy debacle.

arcadia (Longford) - Posts: 163 - 12/08/2020 21:05:10    2287392

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Replying To arcadia:  "My understanding is that you would not pay any fine relating to an issue under appeal until that appeal is heard and concluded. That has not happened yet. It is also my understanding that when the county board informed Killoe of the ban this week, the club offered to pay the fine in advance to avoid this debacle playing out, and the County Board refused. As to whether Killoe should have played the U16 final or not, that is the subject of the appeal currently sitting with Leinster Council. If the club believed they had a legitimate objection to a player, they are entitled (as are all clubs) to follow that objection to its conclusion before playing the game. That is why the GAA has objections and appeal processes in place. The more interesting element is what happened after Killoe lodged that objection and before the appeal reached Leinster. That is where the real story is here, and where some officials will have serious questions to answer."
your facts are mad wrong. if u have a fine it needs to be paid regardless of an appeal. rule 7.11(f). look it up before talking about things. if u win the appeal u get ur money back. and as for killie trying to pay the fine. love to know ur sources.
Fact is they got a fine and didnt pay it so the got a fine. look up the rule book. County board had no power to reduced or change a 48 week suspension. its killoes fault regardless of been ringht about original appeals late last year early this year.

BBrogan (Longford) - Posts: 46 - 13/08/2020 00:31:58    2287397

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Replying To BBrogan:  "your facts are mad wrong. if u have a fine it needs to be paid regardless of an appeal. rule 7.11(f). look it up before talking about things. if u win the appeal u get ur money back. and as for killie trying to pay the fine. love to know ur sources.
Fact is they got a fine and didnt pay it so the got a fine. look up the rule book. County board had no power to reduced or change a 48 week suspension. its killoes fault regardless of been ringht about original appeals late last year early this year."
Calm down there, this is a forum, people can express their understanding of things as they so wish. I happen to know for a fact that county boards take different approaches to that very rule. I also know for a fact that in other counties the CB will deal with non payment of fees by increasing the fee, not applying a ridiculous ban on all teams in the club for such a crazy length of time. The reaction to the ban has been almost universally negative and has received almost universal condemnation. The county board wanted to make a massive example of Killoe in order to pressure them to shut down the appeal. The appeal will result in this recent ban being thrown out.

arcadia (Longford) - Posts: 163 - 13/08/2020 12:15:17    2287421

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Replying To Stato53:  "According to killoe chairman the club agreed to pay the fine subject to an appeal. So why would they pay the fine before the appeal was heard? This is why there's an appeals procedure in place."
The fine was imposed by Longford County Board. The appeal was to Leinster. €750 is not a huge sum of money for a club like Killoe.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 3869 - 13/08/2020 13:40:01    2287427

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Reality Cheque

Fine Imposed Cover under Rule 7.7 (c)
(c) In the event of failure to pay a Fine within such period as may be stipulated by the Council or Committee-in-Charge
(either at the time of imposition of the Fine or afterwards), the Unit concerned and/or its Officers shall be liable to
such sanctions as the Council or Committee-in-Charge shall deem appropriate.

Penalty Imposed under Rule 6.24 (c)
A Club/Unit shall be compelled to pay any Fine imposed for loss of revenue by the Committee in-Charge and all vouched reasonable expenses incurred, and failure to do so shall involve a Suspension of forty eight weeks.

Rule 7.11 covers appeals and (f) covers sanction
An Appeal shall be submitted in duplicate to the Secretary of the appellate Hearings Committee, to be received within three days from the date and time of notification of the decision, or, where notification of the decision is not required in Rule, within three days from midnight following the meeting at which the decision is made.

Any penalty which has been imposed shall remain in effect notwithstanding the submission of an Appeal.

Killoe were offered an appeal by Leinster in March and said they were not available, Another Last Friday 7th August and were not available. They were also fined €500 on same night of hearing for a known individual allegedly abusing and threatening a referee to be paid before 31st July also, they paid the €500 on time and not the €750.

Club need to tell all the facts to have any chance, not publicising their version looking for the sympathy vote.

FOX40WHISTLER (Longford) - Posts: 8 - 14/08/2020 13:54:57    2287540

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Replying To FOX40WHISTLER:  "Reality Cheque

Fine Imposed Cover under Rule 7.7 (c)
(c) In the event of failure to pay a Fine within such period as may be stipulated by the Council or Committee-in-Charge
(either at the time of imposition of the Fine or afterwards), the Unit concerned and/or its Officers shall be liable to
such sanctions as the Council or Committee-in-Charge shall deem appropriate.

Penalty Imposed under Rule 6.24 (c)
A Club/Unit shall be compelled to pay any Fine imposed for loss of revenue by the Committee in-Charge and all vouched reasonable expenses incurred, and failure to do so shall involve a Suspension of forty eight weeks.

Rule 7.11 covers appeals and (f) covers sanction
An Appeal shall be submitted in duplicate to the Secretary of the appellate Hearings Committee, to be received within three days from the date and time of notification of the decision, or, where notification of the decision is not required in Rule, within three days from midnight following the meeting at which the decision is made.

Any penalty which has been imposed shall remain in effect notwithstanding the submission of an Appeal.

Killoe were offered an appeal by Leinster in March and said they were not available, Another Last Friday 7th August and were not available. They were also fined €500 on same night of hearing for a known individual allegedly abusing and threatening a referee to be paid before 31st July also, they paid the €500 on time and not the €750.

Club need to tell all the facts to have any chance, not publicising their version looking for the sympathy vote."
There is always two sides to every story. My guess is the truth is in the middle of this somewhere.

Nelson39 (Longford) - Posts: 33 - 14/08/2020 15:48:44    2287559

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