|
Replying To manfromthewest: "I generally just observe the comments on these threads but feel the idea that the decline of rural clubs is purely down to a decrease in population is only an excuse. I think it is far to say these so called rural/weaker clubs have been asleep at the wheel and haven't sat down and had a deep look into the issues that they are facing and come up with a strategy/plan as to how to improve things. There are two main issues lack of organisation planning and poor quality coaching.
Take St. Johns for example they ignored underage for a long number of years and are now facing the consequences. On the plus side, a few years ago they sought help from the CB and essentially reset and have put huge work in at underage which now sees them competing at A level at almost all underage levels (boys and girls). Is it too late? Only time will tell.
You could argue Ballymote and Bunninaden were in a similar position, although population had a part to play, but both were struggling at underage levels and I assume it would have been a difficult decision but both sides felt it would be worth amalgamating at underage and they have good quality coaches in place. Look at their current minor team, competing very strongly at A level.
Eastern Harps another example of a club who were in decline at adult level and struggling at underage, look at them now, they got the right people involved, new clubhouse, new stand, division 1 final, promoted to Div 2, very strong minor teams over the last few years backed by good coaches predominantly made up of former players.
I am not saying amalgamations are the answer far from it in fact but the clubs in question need to take stock very quickly and seek the required help, can the CB bring in external people from outside the county to assist?
I know this one will be controversial but I feel clubs just use depopulation as an excuse. More work needs to be done to encourage kids to play and the coaching the kids receive must improve. I have coached teams myself and respect anyone that puts their hand up to help out with a team as it is not an easy job at times but the quality of some of the coaching a lot of underage club teams are receiving around the county and have received over the past few years is not up to standard and that is reflected in their clubs current situation at adult level. As I mentioned above, Harps is the opposite to this, they didn't allow the decline to happen, they reset and got the right people involved.
I look up north and there is coaching workshops with some top coaches doing sessions almost every weekend with 100 coaches in atttendance but nothing done in Sligo or surrounding counties. Each team need at least one good coach who is willing to educate himself, attend workshops, take advice from peers from within club on drills etc.
Sligo GAA and these so called weaker clubs needs to do more with these coaches to educate them and upskill and I don't just mean do the standard award 1 course, they need more practical training.
The super clubs as you are referring them to are reaping the rewards of years of hard work from volunteers and have set the benchmark for the rest to follow." Eastern Harps are an amalgamation, they have a large area with a decent population. If you are using Eastern Harps as an example of what clubs should do then are you suggesting clubs should amalgamate?
How many teams in division 1 this year are not amalgamations?
muscles (Sligo) - Posts: 485 - 15/07/2025 15:20:33
2625868
Link
0
|
|
I don't see any point in talking about the merits of clubs that have amalgamated 50 or 60 years ago. In fairness to these clubs they have brilliant personal involved which means they can produce 2 teams at underage. I agree with a previous poster that using the population as an excuse is lazy. St .Pat's are now in Div 3. Until Tourlestrane came along they had the distinction of the last club to win back to back Co Senior Titles. I think it was 87/88. Granted in those days a few big families could nearly field a team on their own. Im thinking of Tubber who had very productive families in the form of Gilmartins, Murphy's , Kilcoynes etc. The big families are almost gone but moreso the volunteers have also dried up. Coaches from clubs that are stepped in the Gaa will be better than coaches with no background or history of winning titles. Tourlestrane winning 7 in a row was a massive achievement and won't be done again in my lifetime anyway. I would still expect Tourlestrane will regroup and will be much stronger this year than last year. Their management are hugely successful players and every game you go to the great players from 30 or 40 years ago are still leaning on the fence. That's the sort of tradition that most urban clubs don't have. It will take leadership to rally the club again and maybe investing in coaches to train and help their coaches. If you show a young lad the wrong way to do stuff at 10 or 11 it will be nigh impossible to get it out of him at 15 or 16. Make no mistake about it Calry and John's are in bother and need help. Coolera even though they are Connacht champions need to see where they will be in 4 or 5 years time because they are not exactly doing a lot at underage.
eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 2175 - 15/07/2025 19:52:45
2625932
Link
1
|
|
Replying To muscles: "Eastern Harps are an amalgamation, they have a large area with a decent population. If you are using Eastern Harps as an example of what clubs should do then are you suggesting clubs should amalgamate?
How many teams in division 1 this year are not amalgamations?" I think you missed the point and also don't forget your talking about an amalgamation that happened 53 years ago, move on!
If you read my original post Harps who despite their amalgamation were on the decline but they took stock of where they were at, put strong leadership in place at executive level, put the right structures in place at underage level and are now reaping the reward. If they hadn't made the changes who knows where they might be now, my hats off to them, they have set a good example for the rest to follow (if they have the desire and ambitions to improve).
I'm not going to answer your 2nd question you are talking about amalgamations that happened over 20 years ago if not more. I would say the same thing to them as I am saying now, look inside the closet first before opening the door to an amalgamation, there is no guarantee they will work.
manfromthewest (Sligo) - Posts: 37 - 15/07/2025 20:04:41
2625934
Link
0
|
|
Some great posts lately, the question I have is why clubs take their eye off the ball? Why did St Johns the last club to give Sligo an All Star take their eye off the ball? 2010 is not that long ago to have used that kinda of inspiration to build on.
Harps are building nicely but I remember when they were the strongest club in Sligo with multiple teams. A bit like ourselves now their 2nd team used to be very strong and then for a few years they regressed. I hope it never happens us but you have to keep the good work going.
I think part of it is cyclical but also usually you see an upward curve when parents of kids who GAA mad and are very good coaches, are involved. For the most part the club coaching can be very poor as the parents who are doing their best have little to no football knowledge so standards drop. This is where the CB need to support the coaches and upskill them imo. For me there should be a template training session for underage coaches and the coaching sessions should be reviewed on monthly basis, maybe there is already but implementation is key. Usually the parents get involved as their is a lack of volunteers. Not every team or age group in the bigger clubs has GAA traditional families involved. In the smaller clubs it usually never drops too far because the GAA families keep it going. Tourlestrane are the ultimate example, they are showing no signs of fading away to the extent others are and credit to them. They look like contenders for another senior championship this year.
And the main thing I learned as a player and coach is players are not made in 1hour session 2 or 3 times a week, elite players are created in what they do in their own time. The players down at their club pitch during the summer months consistently working on their game are the ones who maximise their potential. I have seen this so many times where they do from outside the u16 panel to starting u17 and u20 and senior. If you are born into a GAA family or have brothers who play you will be better than most because you are praticising all the time. You have to get the players and parents to drive it at home too.
The other point on the standard dropping, the strength and conditioning has improved and is where it needs to be for most part and many other areas are fine for me, where I would agree with you is that the first touch and shooting execution is where I see the drop off in skill level for the most part and can improve. As players get older certain skills drop off as they were playing more as they were growing up, then work/life takes up more time and the reps drop off.
Ultimately Coolera/Strandhill did prove Sligo Club Standard is doing just fine and its not like they were way ahead of everyone else so I wouldn't writing an obituary for Sligo club football just yet. It is important that the right work is done all the time and continues.
Sligonian (Sligo) - Posts: 1884 - 15/07/2025 20:40:20
2625945
Link
0
|
|
Replying To manfromthewest: "I think you missed the point and also don't forget your talking about an amalgamation that happened 53 years ago, move on!
If you read my original post Harps who despite their amalgamation were on the decline but they took stock of where they were at, put strong leadership in place at executive level, put the right structures in place at underage level and are now reaping the reward. If they hadn't made the changes who knows where they might be now, my hats off to them, they have set a good example for the rest to follow (if they have the desire and ambitions to improve).
I'm not going to answer your 2nd question you are talking about amalgamations that happened over 20 years ago if not more. I would say the same thing to them as I am saying now, look inside the closet first before opening the door to an amalgamation, there is no guarantee they will work." You are talking about small rural clubs who struggling for numbers and comparing them with large clubs who are amalgamations, regardless of how many years ago it was, they still have large populations and their populations have grown since they originally amalgamated.
Next we need to talk about why Sligo is not competing with Dublin.
muscles (Sligo) - Posts: 485 - 15/07/2025 21:57:26
2625954
Link
0
|
|
Replying To muscles: "You are talking about small rural clubs who struggling for numbers and comparing them with large clubs who are amalgamations, regardless of how many years ago it was, they still have large populations and their populations have grown since they originally amalgamated.
Next we need to talk about why Sligo is not competing with Dublin." Your dead right, we should be comparing ourselves to Dublin. AIM HIGH.
Look at Offaly, they are a similar size county to ours, they were going no where a couple of years ago in either football or hurling and what happened next?
Michael Duignan came in as chair and brought the right people with him who were willing to make changes, they put the facilities, structures and good coaches in place and have reaped the rewards in recent years with success at minor, u20 in both football and hurling, which has seen them beat Dublin in some games. This has resulted in progress at senior level with footballers winning Div 3 title this year and hurlers into the proper leinster championship for the first time in a number of years.
Look at Tourlestrane they have small population, how are they managing to continue to compete at the top level?
Curry and Easkey are two more rural clubs who are competing at the top level.
How many of these rural clubs have a club gym? If there is a gym, the young lads will go to the gym, while they are at the club they might go out and work on their shooting, do a few extra runs. If one lad starts doing it, the rest will follow. It's like a conveyer belt and if that happens things will improve as a whole for the club. There's an old saying, 'build it and they will come'. A tourlestrane man once told me that Johnny Kelly and Liam Gaughan were part of the team that played the first game under lights in Tourlestane and what have they given back to the club in regards success.
St John's probably has one of the biggest and most densely populated areas in the county, population doesn't mean guaranteed success, you have to put the effort in and in my opinion some clubs are just going through the motions doing the same thing over and over again.
manfromthewest (Sligo) - Posts: 37 - 16/07/2025 10:19:14
2626007
Link
0
|
|
Replying To manfromthewest: "I generally just observe the comments on these threads but feel the idea that the decline of rural clubs is purely down to a decrease in population is only an excuse. I think it is far to say these so called rural/weaker clubs have been asleep at the wheel and haven't sat down and had a deep look into the issues that they are facing and come up with a strategy/plan as to how to improve things. There are two main issues lack of organisation planning and poor quality coaching.
Take St. Johns for example they ignored underage for a long number of years and are now facing the consequences. On the plus side, a few years ago they sought help from the CB and essentially reset and have put huge work in at underage which now sees them competing at A level at almost all underage levels (boys and girls). Is it too late? Only time will tell.
You could argue Ballymote and Bunninaden were in a similar position, although population had a part to play, but both were struggling at underage levels and I assume it would have been a difficult decision but both sides felt it would be worth amalgamating at underage and they have good quality coaches in place. Look at their current minor team, competing very strongly at A level.
Eastern Harps another example of a club who were in decline at adult level and struggling at underage, look at them now, they got the right people involved, new clubhouse, new stand, division 1 final, promoted to Div 2, very strong minor teams over the last few years backed by good coaches predominantly made up of former players.
I am not saying amalgamations are the answer far from it in fact but the clubs in question need to take stock very quickly and seek the required help, can the CB bring in external people from outside the county to assist?
I know this one will be controversial but I feel clubs just use depopulation as an excuse. More work needs to be done to encourage kids to play and the coaching the kids receive must improve. I have coached teams myself and respect anyone that puts their hand up to help out with a team as it is not an easy job at times but the quality of some of the coaching a lot of underage club teams are receiving around the county and have received over the past few years is not up to standard and that is reflected in their clubs current situation at adult level. As I mentioned above, Harps is the opposite to this, they didn't allow the decline to happen, they reset and got the right people involved.
I look up north and there is coaching workshops with some top coaches doing sessions almost every weekend with 100 coaches in atttendance but nothing done in Sligo or surrounding counties. Each team need at least one good coach who is willing to educate himself, attend workshops, take advice from peers from within club on drills etc.
Sligo GAA and these so called weaker clubs needs to do more with these coaches to educate them and upskill and I don't just mean do the standard award 1 course, they need more practical training.
The super clubs as you are referring them to are reaping the rewards of years of hard work from volunteers and have set the benchmark for the rest to follow." How is depopulation an excuse? Are you suggesting there aren't hard working volunteers and what happened in John's is systematic in Sligo?
Depopulation is a fact. Go for a pint in Geevagh or Ballygawley or Skreen or Mullinabreena or Dromore West and see exactly how many young people are left. Clubs are clearly struggling for numbers.
I'm not saying this is the only problem and you make a point about coaching ability and I'd say enough isn't being done to retain players but depopulation is a pretty obvious issue. And comparing Harps to some of these clubs is mad.
Bumblebee123 (Sligo) - Posts: 99 - 16/07/2025 10:37:05
2626013
Link
0
|
|
Replying To manfromthewest: "Your dead right, we should be comparing ourselves to Dublin. AIM HIGH.
Look at Offaly, they are a similar size county to ours, they were going no where a couple of years ago in either football or hurling and what happened next?
Michael Duignan came in as chair and brought the right people with him who were willing to make changes, they put the facilities, structures and good coaches in place and have reaped the rewards in recent years with success at minor, u20 in both football and hurling, which has seen them beat Dublin in some games. This has resulted in progress at senior level with footballers winning Div 3 title this year and hurlers into the proper leinster championship for the first time in a number of years.
Look at Tourlestrane they have small population, how are they managing to continue to compete at the top level?
Curry and Easkey are two more rural clubs who are competing at the top level.
How many of these rural clubs have a club gym? If there is a gym, the young lads will go to the gym, while they are at the club they might go out and work on their shooting, do a few extra runs. If one lad starts doing it, the rest will follow. It's like a conveyer belt and if that happens things will improve as a whole for the club. There's an old saying, 'build it and they will come'. A tourlestrane man once told me that Johnny Kelly and Liam Gaughan were part of the team that played the first game under lights in Tourlestane and what have they given back to the club in regards success.
St John's probably has one of the biggest and most densely populated areas in the county, population doesn't mean guaranteed success, you have to put the effort in and in my opinion some clubs are just going through the motions doing the same thing over and over again." What a load of rubbish. Michael Duignan has turned the clubs too? Compare ourselves to Dublin? Nonsense.
You remind me of another poster.
He likes paragraphs.
A lot.
Bumblebee123 (Sligo) - Posts: 99 - 16/07/2025 11:48:05
2626026
Link
0
|
|
Replying To manfromthewest: "Your dead right, we should be comparing ourselves to Dublin. AIM HIGH.
Look at Offaly, they are a similar size county to ours, they were going no where a couple of years ago in either football or hurling and what happened next?
Michael Duignan came in as chair and brought the right people with him who were willing to make changes, they put the facilities, structures and good coaches in place and have reaped the rewards in recent years with success at minor, u20 in both football and hurling, which has seen them beat Dublin in some games. This has resulted in progress at senior level with footballers winning Div 3 title this year and hurlers into the proper leinster championship for the first time in a number of years.
Look at Tourlestrane they have small population, how are they managing to continue to compete at the top level?
Curry and Easkey are two more rural clubs who are competing at the top level.
How many of these rural clubs have a club gym? If there is a gym, the young lads will go to the gym, while they are at the club they might go out and work on their shooting, do a few extra runs. If one lad starts doing it, the rest will follow. It's like a conveyer belt and if that happens things will improve as a whole for the club. There's an old saying, 'build it and they will come'. A tourlestrane man once told me that Johnny Kelly and Liam Gaughan were part of the team that played the first game under lights in Tourlestane and what have they given back to the club in regards success.
St John's probably has one of the biggest and most densely populated areas in the county, population doesn't mean guaranteed success, you have to put the effort in and in my opinion some clubs are just going through the motions doing the same thing over and over again." There a 5 maybe 6 year gap in ages between Kelly and Gaughan so I am not sure how they played together on a team when the light's were switched on in Tourlestrane.
Going back to the club structure for a minute.
Sligo town is a soccer stronghold and the,Gaa is in second place. I can never understand how young lads would choose playing soccer over gaelic. The P.R from the rovers is excellent at selling the dream. They don't mention 40 week contracts and then the dole for the next 12. Cretato made a good living playing in the League of Ireland and I can't think of anyone else in the last 20 years who really did well from Sligo. Kenny is doing well but he is very young yet and I hope it works for him. So many good players are playing junior soccer that could benefit a lot financially if they threw their lot in with the GAA. Job opportunities, playing football for the summer in America, scholarships etc etc are much more prevelant with an O Neills ball than with the other one. However kids live the dream of the premiership but I don't think any Sligo player since Paul MC Gee over 40 years ago has played at that level. I could name loads who saw their dream fizzle out before their eyes and finished up playing nothing in their early twenties some with very little education having opted out of the leaving cert.
eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 2175 - 16/07/2025 12:22:48
2626037
Link
0
|
|
You got me.. I am the real Sligonian. Caught out by using paragraphs who would have thought.
Your very quick to twist things, I never once mentioned that Michael Duignan has turned the clubs, I am merely showing it and others as an example where the right people and structures are put in place things can change and improve for the better.
Fair point on Kelly and Gaughan, I might have names mixed up there as it was a few years ago it was said to me.
I don't doubt depopulation is a fact but my point is that it can't be used as an excuse, these young people need to be given the best opportunity to excel at playing football but again I simply feel in some clubs they are not and it is an easy decision for lads to just give up football after minor never before they even think about moving to Dublin or further afield.
I agree with eoinog in regards to soccer, lads are joining academies being promised a dream which results in them missing key years in playing gaelic football. The CB needs to have a look at this very quickly especially with summer soccer starting next year which from what I have heard will mean the soccer season will run from Jan to May and Sept to Dec. I know you will say this really only effects the town but soccer is strong in places like Enniscrone, Cliffoney, Riverstown and Gurteen as well. I haven't heard of The CB putting a single plan in place to counter this, the end result will be both soccer and gaelic will both lose out unless something is done and conversation are had with their counterparts so that both can co-exist.
manfromthewest (Sligo) - Posts: 37 - 16/07/2025 14:14:28
2626087
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Bumblebee123: "What a load of rubbish. Michael Duignan has turned the clubs too? Compare ourselves to Dublin? Nonsense.
You remind me of another poster.
He likes paragraphs.
A lot." Such a rubbish response, Why do you always have to be constantly going at certain individuals.
From my contacts in Offaly Duignan and some of the exec have made strong changes, is the reason why Offaly change in fortune? I don't know but it would help.
Agree we are not a Dublin and never will with our population & area but certain areas can be improved.
It has been a positive step in the right direction with having club championship fixtures posted in advance. We need to better in schools and underage football - this is where it starts. Yes, the CDO for clubs has helped out but secondary schools is the key as well. We need to be competing in as many schools as possible.
ATU Sligo, they need to work closely with Sligo GAA to get our underage players from under 17 /20 teams playing more third level football.
RealSouthSligo (Sligo) - Posts: 129 - 17/07/2025 16:51:36
2626290
Link
0
|
|
Replying To RealSouthSligo: "Such a rubbish response, Why do you always have to be constantly going at certain individuals.
From my contacts in Offaly Duignan and some of the exec have made strong changes, is the reason why Offaly change in fortune? I don't know but it would help.
Agree we are not a Dublin and never will with our population & area but certain areas can be improved.
It has been a positive step in the right direction with having club championship fixtures posted in advance. We need to better in schools and underage football - this is where it starts. Yes, the CDO for clubs has helped out but secondary schools is the key as well. We need to be competing in as many schools as possible.
ATU Sligo, they need to work closely with Sligo GAA to get our underage players from under 17 /20 teams playing more third level football." Another year will pass without U.19 or 20 football.....
eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 2175 - 17/07/2025 18:04:01
2626301
Link
0
|
|
Tourlestrane to win the league
Castleconnor to win Div 3
Taypot (Sligo) - Posts: 175 - 18/07/2025 11:59:05
2626375
Link
0
|