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Replying To Temple56: "I wasn't asking what club you're from to dismiss your view I was asking for context. Contexts are often shaped by experience and that's natural. But I take your point that the discussion should be about the structure itself not who benefits from it. I do believe Westmeath GAA does not benefit from this that's what makes people like myself most annoyed. I think where we differ is on what "fairness" means in this context. For me fairness isn't just about everyone starting from the exact same line every year it's also about rewarding performance from the previous season. The protection from relegation in Section A isn't random it's earned by reaching the knockout stages the year before. That's not a "makey-uppy" rule it's a merit-based incentive. You mentioned the Premier League example, but the big difference is that the Premier League is a straight league format. The Westmeath championship isn't it's a hybrid structure with groups and knockouts. Different competitions use different systems to balance competitiveness and quality. The aim here has clearly been to ensure the strongest teams are more likely to reach the latter stages and from 2017 to 2025 that's what happened. You're absolutely right that strong clubs should have to earn it every year and they still do. They have to perform well enough the previous season to get into Section A and then still win matches to reach a final. There's no guarantee of silverware. What the format does is reduce the chance of a top-two team being knocked out early because of one off-day or an uneven draw which we did see happen under the old system and we will 100% happen in this "makey-uppy" championship that is somehow passed through even though no one seems to think its fair. Even you have said this new format is flawed. I don't see it as keeping strong clubs strong I see it as making sure the county final consistently features the two best teams. That benefits standards across the county. At the same time, teams in Section B still have a clear pathway upward promotion is there if they're good enough. Having better match ups = more money for county board. Cant see how they don't see this. We might just value different things slightly you priorities jeopardy and pure reset every year fairness, while I priorities rewarding performance and ensuring quality at the business end. Neither position is unreasonable. Everyone is entitled to an opinion right or wrong. As you said yourself you seem to be the tiny minority which is why myself and the majority of club players, mangers and fans are outraged at how this format passed." Well spoken. iarmhiabu (Westmeath) - Posts: 316 - 05/03/2026 13:16:49 2660099 Link
Replying To Upforthegame23: "To be fair, the argument u put forward is the best ive seen yet. The best teams should have to earn it. I do see merit in that view and will add that some of the teams in group A, let the players off for alot of the summer and only come back for last game of group to get over line, one aspect I dont like and a massive advantage to group A teams," Can players belonging to Clubs in Section B not get the same plane home to play the last game group? If a Club has players missing for the earlier games and are still in a position to qualify when they return home it usually means they have very strong squad depth, it is a privilege the stronger teams have. Perhaps the County Board and Killucan should introduce another "makey uppy" rule to prevent Section A Clubs bringing players back during Championship season? iarmhiabu (Westmeath) - Posts: 316 - 05/03/2026 14:27:40 2660120 Link
Replying To iarmhiabu: "You mean we are the only County introducing "makey uppy" rules into an existing Championship structure which has been in place for the best part of a decade (obviously proved a success), undermining the integrity of the competition to suit the agenda of a few Clubs, one in particular. This is great "promotion of football" isn't it?" Would you please read my posts and stop arguing with me about something I'm not arguing about. I'm not in favour of this years system. Go argue with someone who is. Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1074 - 05/03/2026 14:28:48 2660123 Link
Replying To Jack_Sparrow: "Would you please read my posts and stop arguing with me about something I'm not arguing about. I'm not in favour of this years system. Go argue with someone who is." I have read your posts, and I understand where you are coming from on relegation but we have a tiered Championship structure. All 12 teams can be potentially relegated, the 6 Section A teams can be potentially relegated to Section B and the 6 Section B teams can be potentially relegated to Intermediate A. Relegating 2 teams from Section A and only 1 from Section B is generally not considered fair in a tiered Championship structure. iarmhiabu (Westmeath) - Posts: 316 - 05/03/2026 15:39:06 2660145 Link
Replying To iarmhiabu: "Can players belonging to Clubs in Section B not get the same plane home to play the last game group? If a Club has players missing for the earlier games and are still in a position to qualify when they return home it usually means they have very strong squad depth, it is a privilege the stronger teams have. Perhaps the County Board and Killucan should introduce another "makey uppy" rule to prevent Section A Clubs bringing players back during Championship season?" No you have completely missed the point again, teams in group a could qualify for knockout stages on maybe 3 or 4 points. Teams in group B needed 7 or 8, the point I made was the argument was good that the best team had to earn the title rather than scrapping by from group A in 1/4 finals and have a group of players return from America then for the knock out stages. Upforthegame23 (Westmeath) - Posts: 168 - 05/03/2026 16:13:05 2660153 Link
Replying To iarmhiabu: "I have read your posts, and I understand where you are coming from on relegation but we have a tiered Championship structure. All 12 teams can be potentially relegated, the 6 Section A teams can be potentially relegated to Section B and the 6 Section B teams can be potentially relegated to Intermediate A. Relegating 2 teams from Section A and only 1 from Section B is generally not considered fair in a tiered Championship structure." There's no intermediate A. Just Intermediate with Group A and Group B. There's only 1 intermediate champion who goes on to play in Leinster. So it's a kind of relegation but not a real one because you could still win Intermediate next year if you were good enough. Look I've already said I'm in a minority but it's my opinion. I will say that there seems to be no one on here defending this years system and that tells its own story so I understand your frustration because last years system was better for my club also but my opinion is both structures are flawed but I'm not going repeating the reasons again because it's distracting from the majority discussion. Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1074 - 05/03/2026 16:27:25 2660162 Link
Replying To CasKD: "I also agree with the points. There is argument on both sides and it is now balanced towards Group B. First of all you should not be able to qualify in a 6 team group having lost 3 times. Secondly if group A is so much stronger there will still be 3 teams from it in the semi finals and 2 in the final. Reality is the top 2 or 3 in A group were and still will be in the final. There was far too much jeopardy in group B with only 2 qualifying. The right call in current format is probably to have a preliminary QF between 3rd in B and 4th in A but there is not time for this. The point on relegation is very valid. For instance lets say Caulry for example had a good year last year and 4 or 5 lads went to America for the summer. They could be the worst team in the championship that year but exempt from relegation. In group B you have teams who ended up in because they didn't make the quarter finals the year the format changed and all of a sudden they're in a 2 out of 6 situation. I think 2 or 4 either random or seeded groups in a format designed to keep games meaningful for everyone as long as possible is more fair. Lets say 2 groups of 6 where 1st placed teams go to semi second placed teams play 3rd in other group in quarter finals and 5th & 6th placed teams play each other in a relegation semi final and then final. This should mean competitive games all through the group and at least 5 games for each team" Your last sentence is the issue there. Two equal groups of 6 won't ensure competitive group games. It will result in mismatches between the strongest teams and weaker ones. It was tried before and scrapped after a few years in favour of the system introduced in 2017. I take Jack Sparrow's point about relegation. I think it's fair enough to believe everyone should be at risk of relegation. But for me the positives of the system that was in place far outweigh that as a negative. The A and B groups led to more competitive games throughout the group stages and very few dead rubber games. I know Jack's not in favour of the new system, I'm not sure anyone here or anyone I've chatted to in real life is, but it really is an awful change that's been made. How anybody thought it was fair and how it got voted through I'll never know. anon (None) - Posts: 364 - 06/03/2026 07:22:58 2660229 Link
Replying To anon: "Your last sentence is the issue there. Two equal groups of 6 won't ensure competitive group games. It will result in mismatches between the strongest teams and weaker ones. It was tried before and scrapped after a few years in favour of the system introduced in 2017. I take Jack Sparrow's point about relegation. I think it's fair enough to believe everyone should be at risk of relegation. But for me the positives of the system that was in place far outweigh that as a negative. The A and B groups led to more competitive games throughout the group stages and very few dead rubber games. I know Jack's not in favour of the new system, I'm not sure anyone here or anyone I've chatted to in real life is, but it really is an awful change that's been made. How anybody thought it was fair and how it got voted through I'll never know." Well it wasn't scrapped after a few years - it was scrapped after a long time. It was in place from 2000 to 2016 , with the exception of 2006 when the county board pushed through a system with fewer games to appease the senior football management. It's very clear how it got voted through. Teams who are in Group B this year saw the short term advantage to their clubs. And the county board , heavily weighted to Group B teams, had the effective tie breaking votes. jamsie (Westmeath) - Posts: 512 - 06/03/2026 10:05:52 2660248 Link
Replying To Jack_Sparrow: "There's no intermediate A. Just Intermediate with Group A and Group B. There's only 1 intermediate champion who goes on to play in Leinster. So it's a kind of relegation but not a real one because you could still win Intermediate next year if you were good enough. Look I've already said I'm in a minority but it's my opinion. I will say that there seems to be no one on here defending this years system and that tells its own story so I understand your frustration because last years system was better for my club also but my opinion is both structures are flawed but I'm not going repeating the reasons again because it's distracting from the majority discussion." The relegation is hardly the real issue here. The bottom line is, the new system allows the 9th best team to reach a quarter final while the 4th best team can be eliminated. In a tiered Championship, that should never happen. The 9th best team is only one win from a Semi Final if it is going to be an open draw for the Quarter Finals. Section B teams can actually reach a Semi Final without ever playing a Section A team (!!). The chance of qualifying from Section A last year was 66.7%, the chance this year is 50%. The chance of qualifying from Section B last year was 33.3%, the chance this year is 50%. So the stronger tier lost opportunity while the weaker tier gained it. Every team should want to be in Section A because it should give a clear advantage. However, the changes create a situation where a team not strong enough to finish in the top 2 of Section A might prefer to be in Section B because their chances of qualifying for the knockouts are much higher. Then, the tiered system loses its purpose. The Sections or Groups might as well be called Foster Group and Allen Group, A and B is absolutely meaningless, because the structure no longer rewards the stronger tier. iarmhiabu (Westmeath) - Posts: 316 - 06/03/2026 12:33:20 2660284 Link
Replying To jamsie: "Well it wasn't scrapped after a few years - it was scrapped after a long time. It was in place from 2000 to 2016 , with the exception of 2006 when the county board pushed through a system with fewer games to appease the senior football management. It's very clear how it got voted through. Teams who are in Group B this year saw the short term advantage to their clubs. And the county board , heavily weighted to Group B teams, had the effective tie breaking votes." And that is an issue- where the results point to a perceived advantage for one club that, even if unintended, creates mistrust. Now, any further attempts to change will be viewed with suspicion and through the lens of "who is benefiting?" Now that we have changed systems, it may be easier to sit down and see exactly what is needed. As I said earlier, I initially didn't want to change, but in hindsight, maybe it had got a little stale and throwing a curveball in every now and then in any organisation doesn't do any harm. Now that we are shaking things up, one other aspect to consider is whether we have too many senior teams. 10, for a county our size, sounds as if it might be enough, which would be 2 groups of 5, resulting in less time needed to complete the senior championship, while understanding that this has a knock-on effect on intermediate and junior. It might be more competitive with less "easy " games. Iarmhisamhi (Westmeath) - Posts: 43 - 06/03/2026 12:43:29 2660292 Link
Replying To Upforthegame23: "No you have completely missed the point again, teams in group a could qualify for knockout stages on maybe 3 or 4 points. Teams in group B needed 7 or 8, the point I made was the argument was good that the best team had to earn the title rather than scrapping by from group A in 1/4 finals and have a group of players return from America then for the knock out stages." Yes, it was much harder for Section B teams to qualify for the knockouts which is exactly how a tiered Championship system is supposed to work. iarmhiabu (Westmeath) - Posts: 316 - 06/03/2026 12:45:33 2660293 Link
Replying To iarmhiabu: "The relegation is hardly the real issue here. The bottom line is, the new system allows the 9th best team to reach a quarter final while the 4th best team can be eliminated. In a tiered Championship, that should never happen. The 9th best team is only one win from a Semi Final if it is going to be an open draw for the Quarter Finals. Section B teams can actually reach a Semi Final without ever playing a Section A team (!!). The chance of qualifying from Section A last year was 66.7%, the chance this year is 50%. The chance of qualifying from Section B last year was 33.3%, the chance this year is 50%. So the stronger tier lost opportunity while the weaker tier gained it. Every team should want to be in Section A because it should give a clear advantage. However, the changes create a situation where a team not strong enough to finish in the top 2 of Section A might prefer to be in Section B because their chances of qualifying for the knockouts are much higher. Then, the tiered system loses its purpose. The Sections or Groups might as well be called Foster Group and Allen Group, A and B is absolutely meaningless, because the structure no longer rewards the stronger tier." I've tried to be reasonable with you. I'm done talking to you about this because you don't address my points and go on about what suits you and which I never even argued about. The Westmeath "tiered system" is not like any classic tier system around the world so don't be lecturing people about what a tiered system looks like and how it works because the Westmeath system doesn't follow the classic tiered system pyramid. You don't think relegation is a major issue. You only are worring about what suits your club and at the same time accusing another club of the same thing. Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1074 - 06/03/2026 17:08:50 2660340 Link
Paul Keegan could be instrumental in this years senior championship Madformulty2000 (Westmeath) - Posts: 9 - 07/03/2026 10:10:57 2660391 Link
Replying To Jack_Sparrow: "I've tried to be reasonable with you. I'm done talking to you about this because you don't address my points and go on about what suits you and which I never even argued about. The Westmeath "tiered system" is not like any classic tier system around the world so don't be lecturing people about what a tiered system looks like and how it works because the Westmeath system doesn't follow the classic tiered system pyramid. You don't think relegation is a major issue. You only are worring about what suits your club and at the same time accusing another club of the same thing." You are the one who is being unreasonable.I havent been involved in this discussion because to anyone who cares about quality,the notion of the ninth best team qualifying for the quarter finals and the fourth best team not is simply ludicrous and will in the long term do harm to our county team. High quality competition improves players whilst this nonsense will reward laziness. For teams outside Lomans,The Downs and possibly Kinnegad its clearly an advantage to be playing in the glorified Intermediate championship who can reach senior quarter finals by being third. But to be fair the hurling clubs took the pain and reduced their senior championship which has led to two excellent lower tier championships whilst the football clubs cant agree on anything allowing the board to lead us to no proper championships,no training fields and no money jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1895 - 07/03/2026 13:11:20 2660417 Link
Huge game Sunday for westmeath. Any word on injuries and did ray get suspended. The middle third has been an issue in getting primary possession this year and without ray sun it only adds to problem. Hopefully J Lynam back. Kevin o sullivan having a good year so far and might have to go to midfield. Good luck sunday Upforthegame23 (Westmeath) - Posts: 168 - 10/03/2026 07:27:16 2660761 Link
Massive game against Limerick on sunday.A win is a must if we have any chance of promotion.Midfield -I fear -could a problem again for us.Any news on Ray Connellan,suspended or not?-hopefully J Lynam is fit and would love to see Shane Ormsby getting a start in the middle-this lad is going to be our main man in the coming years so put him in now-he wont let us down.Hopefully a big crowd-a good win and then off to Wexford for the decider. Bruno@1 (Westmeath) - Posts: 308 - 10/03/2026 11:07:58 2660781 Link
I see that Westmeath LGFA have announced plans for a COE at the old pitch just outside Rochfortbridge. Congrats and best wishes to them. A potentially fantastic development for the future stars of Westmeath Ladies. ondeball (Westmeath) - Posts: 128 - 10/03/2026 15:56:00 2660817 Link
Replying To ondeball: "I see that Westmeath LGFA have announced plans for a COE at the old pitch just outside Rochfortbridge. Congrats and best wishes to them. A potentially fantastic development for the future stars of Westmeath Ladies." Is that not where St Brigid's are building their new hurling pitch? Fighting-Cocks69 (Westmeath) - Posts: 148 - 10/03/2026 17:08:40 2660833 Link