Kerry Forum

A Winter Of Discontent: Post Championship Thread

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Replying To Jack L:  "I think that Kerry people on this page are insecure. Cork got some ribbing after last Sunday's match even from Kerry folk. It happens everywhere.

I'm sure when Dublin are beaten their page will be rolling for quite a while. Are you saying there will be nobody from Kerry on the Dublin page poking fun at them when that happens."
Ii don't think we were ribbing Cork Jack. Cork are our closest rivals and we love beating them but have great respect for them. We were glad for Tipp as we're 31 other counties but certainly not trying to down Cork. As for Dublin I for one will not be downing them when they lose and certainly not on their own forum.ive no prob with friendly banter but gracious in defeat and victory. As my father always said to me growing up "there is only one thing worse than a bad loser and that's a bad winner".

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 25/11/2020 15:40:52    2315272

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Realdub in fairness you're the soundest of the dubs left on hoganstand cuedarocket was a gent also and even kerrykillers once you got over his name was a good lad :-) I even miss snuff at least he'd take the pi## with a bit of class."
I concur with that. More than welcome realdub

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 25/11/2020 16:44:19    2315307

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I concur with that. More than welcome realdub"
Cheers Mick!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 7853 - 25/11/2020 16:49:45    2315310

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Replying To Jack L:  "I think that Kerry people on this page are insecure. Cork got some ribbing after last Sunday's match even from Kerry folk. It happens everywhere.

I'm sure when Dublin are beaten their page will be rolling for quite a while. Are you saying there will be nobody from Kerry on the Dublin page poking fun at them when that happens."
There are a few Kerry posters that pop up on the main forum, but rarely engage with this forum. Maybe some of them would, but I can say with confidence almost all the old regulars on here would not be so crass and frankly pathetic as to bother going onto another county's forum and mocking them after a defeat.

That's kind of thing is the mark of a certain type of individual. There's plenty of them on the main forum for sure, but they are defo in the anti-Kerry brigade.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 5930 - 25/11/2020 20:24:16    2315410

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I watched the Kerry Cork game again last night for the last time before I erased it. Just a couple of things that I noticed. One was I'm a firm believer in a team but even from the get go it did nt look like it. When Kerry ran onto pitch a few of the subs were wearing tracksuit bottoms and I noticed 3 players with different type tracksuit bottoms. One had yellow stripes another orange type and another had another type. Think twas Tommy Walsh Lillian Spillane and a another sub with a mask on. Now for me all the team and panel should have the same colour and type outfits. It does nt look good and does nt show unity. Also I felt Ronan Buckley was struggling and should ve been taken off before Moynihan and Brosnan and was nt. Then he got a black card for a needless silly tackle putting us under huge pressure These are all management problems. Finally our star man King David was very inept and one of the main reasons we lost. His decision making was very poor and a kind of laziness at time. Tony Brosnan hit a shot off post in first half and Clifford had his back turned to it. A good crafty forward should always wait on the off chance it comes back off post. Also his two missed frees were very handy and going for goal from far out when a simple point was on was very silly. Also he kicked the ball away to Cork on a couple of occasions. These are the rough edges on Clifford I hope are smoothed over for next year. Cork fought until the end but it eas our own mistakes led to our demise. Anyway hopefully once we learn from the mistakes we can look forward.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 26/11/2020 11:06:25    2315547

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My final word on the Kerry Cork game. We were nt as bad as pundits saying and although I hate blaming other factors having watched game again I noticed the ref was hard on us and even Corks equalising free for full time was very soft. I don't think a free like that would ve given earlier in the fame. In any case I always say you should leave it in refs hands anyway and we had chances to be further ahead. On another note if we had won we probably would ve beaten Tipp no disrespect to them and we all would have missed out on the wonderful emotional scenes and uplifting spirit of Tipps special MF win.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 26/11/2020 11:37:29    2315559

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "My final word on the Kerry Cork game. We were nt as bad as pundits saying and although I hate blaming other factors having watched game again I noticed the ref was hard on us and even Corks equalising free for full time was very soft. I don't think a free like that would ve given earlier in the fame. In any case I always say you should leave it in refs hands anyway and we had chances to be further ahead. On another note if we had won we probably would ve beaten Tipp no disrespect to them and we all would have missed out on the wonderful emotional scenes and uplifting spirit of Tipps special MF win."
Mick I dont know if you ever go on the kerry Pro boards forum but if you get a chance give it a look and check out the John Connellan thread go to the last post on the first page you might find it interesting.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12195 - 26/11/2020 14:23:34    2315626

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Mick I dont know if you ever go on the kerry Pro boards forum but if you get a chance give it a look and check out the John Connellan thread go to the last post on the first page you might find it interesting."
Oh I saw it K Boy. Oh look I've seen it all before and sure I agree it's wrong but that's the gaa s hierarchs fault. I have lots of friends here in Dublin and they all agree it's wrong too but as I say it's not the dubs teams fault. Look I know the Dubs have a load of advantages like Croke Park. Even sleeping in their own beds before a big game. I know loads of players say their sleep affected in hotels before big games and that can come into play in the last ten mins of a tight game when fatigue sets in. The fans especially the Hill is a big advantage to them and i have heard from ex refs it's very intimidating to give a 50/50 decision against duds especially in Croke Park. So yes I agree in all that but also its unfair on the current Dublin team. Dubs always had the pitch advantage anyway with semi and finals. No is denying Dubs don't have advantages but you ll have to admit they have a fantastic team that seem to be getting better all the time. As I say it's not the team or their supporters fault. If the shoe was on the other foot I would be hurt and angry if people said we only won all Irelands because of this and that. To be honest the dubs make more of the 16 year hiatus than I do. I always was worried playing Dublin cos even between 95 and 11 they were always dining at the top table in my view although just not getting over the line. I'm living in Dublin a long time K Boy and let me tell you the majority of Dublin supporters are the salt of the earth. Are they biased? Of course they are. We all are because we love our own. I've met bad dub supporters and plenty of bad mayo supporters and plenty of bad Kerry supporters. I know you love Kerry and so do I and I would love really love to beat Dúin in a big game in Croke Park soon and I hope to be there when it happens but they are one hell of a team of champions and they are the innocent victims of the gaa s monetary dealings.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 26/11/2020 16:58:52    2315681

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Oh I saw it K Boy. Oh look I've seen it all before and sure I agree it's wrong but that's the gaa s hierarchs fault. I have lots of friends here in Dublin and they all agree it's wrong too but as I say it's not the dubs teams fault. Look I know the Dubs have a load of advantages like Croke Park. Even sleeping in their own beds before a big game. I know loads of players say their sleep affected in hotels before big games and that can come into play in the last ten mins of a tight game when fatigue sets in. The fans especially the Hill is a big advantage to them and i have heard from ex refs it's very intimidating to give a 50/50 decision against duds especially in Croke Park. So yes I agree in all that but also its unfair on the current Dublin team. Dubs always had the pitch advantage anyway with semi and finals. No is denying Dubs don't have advantages but you ll have to admit they have a fantastic team that seem to be getting better all the time. As I say it's not the team or their supporters fault. If the shoe was on the other foot I would be hurt and angry if people said we only won all Irelands because of this and that. To be honest the dubs make more of the 16 year hiatus than I do. I always was worried playing Dublin cos even between 95 and 11 they were always dining at the top table in my view although just not getting over the line. I'm living in Dublin a long time K Boy and let me tell you the majority of Dublin supporters are the salt of the earth. Are they biased? Of course they are. We all are because we love our own. I've met bad dub supporters and plenty of bad mayo supporters and plenty of bad Kerry supporters. I know you love Kerry and so do I and I would love really love to beat Dúin in a big game in Croke Park soon and I hope to be there when it happens but they are one hell of a team of champions and they are the innocent victims of the gaa s monetary dealings."
Mick the way Greenandgold described the dublin backroom setup was scary, they're light years ahead of us financially and administratively and we're probably realistically the second best team in the allireland behind them so where are the rest in this regard?

I can honestly see No hope for us or for any other team in the future if something doesn't change.

The only solutions I can think of is if we and a few more teams could go pro, OR the gaa could change the championship and bring in the piece of the junior championship where who ever wins the allireland none of those players from the winning team can play in the following year's allireland Or split the dubs in 2 for a start and in 4 if deviding them in 2 doesn't work Or put the dubs in an eternal allireland final and let the rest of us have a championship to see who plays them.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12195 - 26/11/2020 18:00:51    2315696

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No way would I be up for Dublin to be split in two.i think it would ruin the championship.I always say be careful what you wish for.if that happened you could have Dub north v dub south in finals regularly.Dublin are ahead of us K boy but not by that much.Dont despair we had a blip afew weeks ago but we will be back stronger.When every team loses it seems like the end of the world.Many Dubs were very wary of Kerry and were delighted Kerry were beaten because they know we not far away and on any given day we capable of beating anyone,A few other pals in Dublin are sorry to see Kerry gone because they say it would be more of a challenge.This is my take on thing and of course I could be wrong but here goes.Our players don't lack for anything but its harder for some with training etc as some have to travel fro limerick Dublin cork and different parts of Kerry so a lot might have to spend 4 hours driving to and from training and some even more wheras nearly all Dublin player based in Dublin and even with traffic the longest journey for them would be an hour away so they have us there.on money we have no problem there.on football they are more confident at mo and great team players but individually we not too far behind.Cluxton is the g.o.a.t but he s coming to the end.James Mc Carthy is a machine and Brian Fenton.Ciaran Kilkenny a star man and Con o Callaghan and Mannion brilliant scorers and dean rock an expert place kicker.Now for us would you swap Clifford for a Dublin player.i would nt anyway.Sean O shea class and a top place kicker also.we have natural scorers like Paul Geaney Killian Spillane Tony Brosnan .Midfield they have us alright but at the back we improving big time.im happy with Morley Tom o Sullivan and Paul Murphy a gem.dublin have some good new lads coming but so have we like Paul o shea (Clifford cousin).to tell you the truth this year might be a blessing in disguise as maybe the team and def the supporters were getting ahead of themselves.I never bought into the thought that we were ready this year although hopeful but I do think we are coming.i know Dublin aint going away but we will be there to take them on.in all games there s if s and buts but in my humble opinion they have been better than us for most of the decade.we should have beaten them in 11 but 13 15 16 and even last year they were better.im confident though that we will have another all Ireland sooner rather than later.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 26/11/2020 20:04:31    2315741

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "My final word on the Kerry Cork game. We were nt as bad as pundits saying and although I hate blaming other factors having watched game again I noticed the ref was hard on us and even Corks equalising free for full time was very soft. I don't think a free like that would ve given earlier in the fame. In any case I always say you should leave it in refs hands anyway and we had chances to be further ahead. On another note if we had won we probably would ve beaten Tipp no disrespect to them and we all would have missed out on the wonderful emotional scenes and uplifting spirit of Tipps special MF win."
If I was making a list of people to blame for the Cork result the ref would be a long way down it. I know that's not what you are saying but I don't remember it being a big factor.

Re Dublin I saw that post as well, and have been saying for years on here that their S & C is a huge and very under acknowledged factor in what they have achieved, and a lot of that comes down to money. They are years ahead of the rest of us in putting high performance programmes in place by all accounts, and it shows on the pitch in the closing minutes of games and in the way they are able to impose themselves on teams physically. I would love to see a breakdown of what it all costs vs other teams. You will never get the figure of course because it'll be bundled in with a whole host of other costs in the accounts. Anybody that tries to tell you they know the details is talking pony because they just won't be available to anybody that isn't involved in the running of the team.

That is not to say Kerry are badly off or anything, in fact we hired our first full time S & C man last year so we are better off than most. I'm not sure what other counties have. I'd imagine that most Division one counties have or are getting good programmes in place.

We are told money doesn't kick the ball over the bar etc but that's utterly foolish and naïve talk. High level conditioning and coaching makes a huge huge difference at the top level.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2018 - 26/11/2020 20:41:23    2315750

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "No way would I be up for Dublin to be split in two.i think it would ruin the championship.I always say be careful what you wish for.if that happened you could have Dub north v dub south in finals regularly.Dublin are ahead of us K boy but not by that much.Dont despair we had a blip afew weeks ago but we will be back stronger.When every team loses it seems like the end of the world.Many Dubs were very wary of Kerry and were delighted Kerry were beaten because they know we not far away and on any given day we capable of beating anyone,A few other pals in Dublin are sorry to see Kerry gone because they say it would be more of a challenge.This is my take on thing and of course I could be wrong but here goes.Our players don't lack for anything but its harder for some with training etc as some have to travel fro limerick Dublin cork and different parts of Kerry so a lot might have to spend 4 hours driving to and from training and some even more wheras nearly all Dublin player based in Dublin and even with traffic the longest journey for them would be an hour away so they have us there.on money we have no problem there.on football they are more confident at mo and great team players but individually we not too far behind.Cluxton is the g.o.a.t but he s coming to the end.James Mc Carthy is a machine and Brian Fenton.Ciaran Kilkenny a star man and Con o Callaghan and Mannion brilliant scorers and dean rock an expert place kicker.Now for us would you swap Clifford for a Dublin player.i would nt anyway.Sean O shea class and a top place kicker also.we have natural scorers like Paul Geaney Killian Spillane Tony Brosnan .Midfield they have us alright but at the back we improving big time.im happy with Morley Tom o Sullivan and Paul Murphy a gem.dublin have some good new lads coming but so have we like Paul o shea (Clifford cousin).to tell you the truth this year might be a blessing in disguise as maybe the team and def the supporters were getting ahead of themselves.I never bought into the thought that we were ready this year although hopeful but I do think we are coming.i know Dublin aint going away but we will be there to take them on.in all games there s if s and buts but in my humble opinion they have been better than us for most of the decade.we should have beaten them in 11 but 13 15 16 and even last year they were better.im confident though that we will have another all Ireland sooner rather than later."
Mick I hope you're correct about winning 1 soon but remember to win 1 we'll more than likely have to beat 2 or 3 of the teams that are at our level and then beat the dubs in Croke Park that's a tall order.

You're correct about our midfield it's shocking, and I know I've said it a thousand times but we need the Aussie back home at what ever the cost, if we have all the money people are saying we have then Tim Murphy needs to wake up because he's asleep at the wheel and get the man home and pay him what he wants as there is no point in pretending that we're playing an amateur sport any more it obvious now that we're not.

Sorry bout the rant mick but it's a joke at this stage.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12195 - 26/11/2020 21:30:33    2315765

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It would be great if MOC came home.I have bee sceptical of lads coming back from oz before but im a believer after watching Colin O riordan now.Kennelly and Tommy Walsh never came back the same athough Tommy in fairness got a horrendous injury but when I saw Tipp I was thinking of MOC too.He would be just what we need.Look David Moran is an excellent midfielder but lacks alittle pace and his decision making can be suspect at times.In the Cork game it was crazy to go for a point at that stage.Even if he scored that meant Cork had to go for goal then.He should ve just kept ball.Now I still think he has plenty to offer and had agreat game v Cork.i like Jack Barry too but something missing.A Spillane a good player amd might be worth a place but not sure on midfield.MOC would be perfect but he seems to be very happ down under alas.the league will be starting soon enough again and P.G we find a player or two for midfield and a back

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 26/11/2020 21:52:49    2315773

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Mick I hope you're correct about winning 1 soon but remember to win 1 we'll more than likely have to beat 2 or 3 of the teams that are at our level and then beat the dubs in Croke Park that's a tall order.

You're correct about our midfield it's shocking, and I know I've said it a thousand times but we need the Aussie back home at what ever the cost, if we have all the money people are saying we have then Tim Murphy needs to wake up because he's asleep at the wheel and get the man home and pay him what he wants as there is no point in pretending that we're playing an amateur sport any more it obvious now that we're not.

Sorry bout the rant mick but it's a joke at this stage."
What is Tim Murphy supposed to do Kboy, honestly? Marks salary in Oz would be nearly what they spend on preparing the senior team as it is. That is not a realistic suggestion at all to start paying players. If lads are offered contracts from AFL, Rugby or any other pro sport there is nothing the GAA can do. Mark is gone for several years now, he has made a terrific career for himself down there and isn't coming back, good for him. For Kerry, time to move on.

I don't think our midfield options are that bad, they were very good in 2019, not so much against Cork but everyone underperformed in that game. Barry and O'Connor could be a good pair in the future and there are some others coming through. I don't think things are as bad as you are making out honestly.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2018 - 26/11/2020 21:55:14    2315774

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "What is Tim Murphy supposed to do Kboy, honestly? Marks salary in Oz would be nearly what they spend on preparing the senior team as it is. That is not a realistic suggestion at all to start paying players. If lads are offered contracts from AFL, Rugby or any other pro sport there is nothing the GAA can do. Mark is gone for several years now, he has made a terrific career for himself down there and isn't coming back, good for him. For Kerry, time to move on.

I don't think our midfield options are that bad, they were very good in 2019, not so much against Cork but everyone underperformed in that game. Barry and O'Connor could be a good pair in the future and there are some others coming through. I don't think things are as bad as you are making out honestly."
What kind of money would mark be on Gerry 70-80 grand a year? Sure with all the money we're supposed to have that's only peanuts , Tyrone bought Mcshane a house and gave him a ball of cash and a job and fair play to them, it's time we stop being so naive in kerry and start doing what the dubs and Tyrone are doing to keep our best players at home. Like I say the days of pretending we're playing in an amateur sport is gone, let it be a free for all now and do what ever it takes to win the canaster.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12195 - 26/11/2020 22:27:08    2315785

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "What is Tim Murphy supposed to do Kboy, honestly? Marks salary in Oz would be nearly what they spend on preparing the senior team as it is. That is not a realistic suggestion at all to start paying players. If lads are offered contracts from AFL, Rugby or any other pro sport there is nothing the GAA can do. Mark is gone for several years now, he has made a terrific career for himself down there and isn't coming back, good for him. For Kerry, time to move on.

I don't think our midfield options are that bad, they were very good in 2019, not so much against Cork but everyone underperformed in that game. Barry and O'Connor could be a good pair in the future and there are some others coming through. I don't think things are as bad as you are making out honestly."
When ive Seen Diarmuid O connor for St Brendans he has been excellent so maybe he will grow into the Kerry midfield.He definitely has all the attributes needed for a good midfielder.At the moment midfield is our problem but maybe its staring us in the face.In 1975 a young Kerry team beat hot favourites Dublin in final with Pat Mc Carthy and Paudie Lynch midfield.MCarthy was excellent in the final and Paudie a class footballer.next year they were flat.McCarthy never really regained his form and Dubs won final in 76.77 we had Jacko and Paidi midfield but Dubs won again in semi and I remember adults saying Kerry need anew midfield.Then in 78 Jacko back in midfield with Seanie Walsh and we have the best midfield pairing for years.both Jacko and Seanie were on the team already so yes maybe we have the boys already and next year they will step up and bring glory back to the Kingdom.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1135 - 26/11/2020 22:54:18    2315791

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After reading all this I don't know if I should be looking forward to next season, or finding a new sport to watch for the next 5 years :(

Dublin might still have amateur players but they have had a professional set-up since Gilroy came in, and its just getting more and more proficient.

If anyone doesn't believe that has contributed to their utter dominance, they're a bloody fool. Elite sport is all about the 1-2%'s, does anyone seriously believe that all Dublin have been handed isn't giving them that every single, God damn game.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 5930 - 26/11/2020 22:58:44    2315794

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "What is Tim Murphy supposed to do Kboy, honestly? Marks salary in Oz would be nearly what they spend on preparing the senior team as it is. That is not a realistic suggestion at all to start paying players. If lads are offered contracts from AFL, Rugby or any other pro sport there is nothing the GAA can do. Mark is gone for several years now, he has made a terrific career for himself down there and isn't coming back, good for him. For Kerry, time to move on.

I don't think our midfield options are that bad, they were very good in 2019, not so much against Cork but everyone underperformed in that game. Barry and O'Connor could be a good pair in the future and there are some others coming through. I don't think things are as bad as you are making out honestly."
Our midfield options are poor enough when you look at it. We're extremely reliant on David Moran. Jack Barry is ok, works hard but average enough when it comes down it. Adrian Spillane similar. These lads are good if we had a dominant midfielder next to them but we don't really. Diarmuid O'Connor isn't ready to play Senior Inter County midfield. Hopefully Joe O'Connor or Liam Kearney will put up their hand and Paul O'Shea is coming through as well.

I'm resigned to the fact now that Mark won't be coming home soon. Such a pity though, I think he'd be top 5 players in the country. Midfield is our weakest position.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 634 - 26/11/2020 22:59:46    2315795

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "What kind of money would mark be on Gerry 70-80 grand a year? Sure with all the money we're supposed to have that's only peanuts , Tyrone bought Mcshane a house and gave him a ball of cash and a job and fair play to them, it's time we stop being so naive in kerry and start doing what the dubs and Tyrone are doing to keep our best players at home. Like I say the days of pretending we're playing in an amateur sport is gone, let it be a free for all now and do what ever it takes to win the canaster."
I'm not sure exactly what Mark earns but he signed an extension last year as far as I remember and the average salary down there is in the $350k range. He was named one of the team leaders this season and is a real up and coming player so whatever he is earning will only increase.

It's crazy to be even discussing it Kboy, it's not even remotely realistic that Kerry start paying fellas to play. If nothing else how do you think the other players on the panel would feel about it, never mind the fact that it would never be allowed by the GAA

I never heard that Tyrone bought McShane a house and gave him money and I'm not sure I believe it. I don't know what he works at but players on the big teams take advantage of career opportunities that arise through their profile all the time. Top level sports opens a lot of doors and Kerry players do very well out of it as well for the most part.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2018 - 26/11/2020 23:14:26    2315800

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "What kind of money would mark be on Gerry 70-80 grand a year? Sure with all the money we're supposed to have that's only peanuts , Tyrone bought Mcshane a house and gave him a ball of cash and a job and fair play to them, it's time we stop being so naive in kerry and start doing what the dubs and Tyrone are doing to keep our best players at home. Like I say the days of pretending we're playing in an amateur sport is gone, let it be a free for all now and do what ever it takes to win the canaster."
If you have a reliable source that can verify what you say about Tyrone and McShane, then that's fine. If you haven't, I suggest that you delete this post. 4-5 contacts of mine within the county of Tyrone, who are footballing men to the core, have told me that they have heard nothing at all about what you claim. They say that it isn't true, and they would be in a position to know, or have heard.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 90 - 27/11/2020 06:32:43    2315831

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