Kerry Forum

New Championship Format

(Oldest Posts First)

As there's not much happening on the field this time of year, and as just about every football county seems to be dissatisfied with both the national league and championship format, I'm going to propose a new format on each Hogan stand county forum.

I hope this will at least provoke debate.

Basically, this system is based on making the objective of the league games (i) Reaching the final phases of an open draw championship, rather than (ii) Redundant National league finals.
However Provisional Finals are retained by using a system which is based on to the Conference system used in American Grid-iron Football.

Incentives are supposed to be included at every stage so that teams aren't going through the motions in any match. It's not easy to explain these things on paper, but here goes;

Each Year the 32 Football Counties are divided into 4 "National Conferences" based on a seeding system determined by performance in the previous year.
For Example Dublin, Kerry, Cork and Tyrone might be seeded 1 next year, with each heading up one of 4 conferences.
Similarly Mayo, Donegal, Kildare & Meath might be seeded 2, and would also be placed in different conferences, each made up of 8 teams drawn from 8 pots of 4 teams ranked at levels 1-8.

For example, level 8 teams might include London. Carlow, Waterford and Clare, who would get the chance of seeing the top teams at their grounds using this system.

Each county would play 7 games in this "League" phase of the competition, which is very similar to how the 4 divisional leagues are played now, however without the finals given there is a new objective for these games which is explained as follows;

Later in the year, the 8 Provincial Finalists would be determined, not by championship as at present, but by the top 2 league records from each province, regardless of conference played in. Counties records would be compared across conferences first by points total, followed points difference, then points scored. (In the unlikely event of equal records mid-week play-offs could be used).

The 4 provisional finals would of course produce 4 winners, with these teams getting direct to the AI Quarter final as at present, having 8 competitive games under their belt.

The 4 provincial champions having qualified, conference placings would again be used to determine the 16 other teams with the best "League Records". If losing provincial finalists don't fall in to this category (possible but unlikely) they would exit at that stage.
2 series of an open draw "knock-out" championship, with home field advantage determined by league record, could quickly reduce 16 teams to 4 by the end of July, as is the case now.

8 teams now remaining, All Ireland Quarter finals, would take place and I'd suggest offering home field advantage to the Provincial winners to boost the significance of those titles and make up for the 2/4 week lay-off which they also experience with the current system, but without compensation.
Semi-finals & Final would be played in Croke Park as at present.

The 12 other teams who did not qualify for the All Ireland Series would play in a B Championship, with the prize playing in Croke Park on AI Final day before the AI Final, and a higher seeding the following year for teams which progress.

Although not perfect, the benefits of this system include;
1. Meaningful League Series, giving qualification for, and home field advantage within, the AI series.
2. Coveted Provincial Titles
3. Dublin & Kerry Regularly appearing in places like Aughrim and Carrick on Shannon
4. End of League Finals played in front of 10,000 people.
5. End of Back Door System
6. More meaningful games, and bigger attendances, for all counties.
7. Realistic target for Division 4 Teams.
8. Not playing the same teams year after year
9. And Best of all, all teams in all counties would be playing at the same times of year, leaving proper windows for Club.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 09/12/2011 14:35:20    1082320

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good format, but the gaa arnt going to change their system for the foreseable future i would presume

romanl292 (Kerry) - Posts: 22 - 17/12/2011 15:44:53    1085487

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What about playing the championship and qualifiers as they are already played but have them condensed into a shorter time scale, then when its time for the quater finals instead of having a knockout round group the 8 teams into 2 groups - 2 provincial winners with 2 qualifers, each team plays the other once with the provincial winners having home advantage with a neutral venue when they (provincial winners ) play each other, the first and second in each group qualify for the all Ireland semi.
This system allows for every county to have an equal opportunity to qualify for the super 8 and would give us an extra 15 games between top teams during the balmy summer.

bernardmessi (Dublin) - Posts: 180 - 25/01/2012 13:07:34    1100059

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Simple solution in my opinion is to retain as it as present, but to make the provincial final more attractive give the winers a home draw for the final.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5002 - 25/01/2012 13:22:03    1100071

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Simple solution in my opinion is to retain as it as present, but to make the provincial final more attractive give the winers a home draw for the Quarter final.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5002 - 25/01/2012 13:22:27    1100072

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Idea for Championship
I think it is very unfair how players from weaker counties never get a chance to perform at the highest level. This is in sharp contrast with club games, where good players playing with intermediate and junior clubs still have a chance to compete in the senior county championship through playing with divisional sides.
Surely a similar system could be introduced for inter county fare especially hurling where there are huge gaps in standards. This could be achieved by allowing players from the weaker counties form a provincial team after the Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and Lory Meagher cup competitions have finished. These provincial teams would then compete in the inter provincial championship (or Railway cups) with the winner gaining an All Ireland quarter or semi final place.
This would be a very important outlet for talented players that are currently stuck with weaker counties and will never have a chance to compete at the highest level. The way it would work is like this. Players from all counties not playing in the Liam McCarthy Cup could come together to form a provincial team. Players from the stronger counties would also be eligible for selection, so long as they are not on their own senior inter county panels. This would be very important for the Munster team for example as Kerry would be the only team in the province not playing in the McCarthy cup and would therefore need a good sprinkling of players from the stronger counties in order to be competitive. Similarly in Connaught the combined forces of Mayo, Sligo Roscommon and Leitrim would in all probability still not be strong enough without a good number of Galway players to also draw upon. A little flexibility with provincial boundaries would also help and Clare players could be made available for selection in Connaught.
It would also be very important to make sure that at least one player from each county in the province is selected on the panel in order to maximise public appeal. If this were tried out for a few years I'm sure it would catch on and eventually capture the public imagination. Just look at how popular the Irish provincial rugby teams have become since they started competing in Europe. This could breath new life in to the hurling championship and provide four extra badly needed competitive teams, and save the inter provincial series in the process. A similar system could be employed for the football championship.

Please reply to let me know your thoughts on this.

kerryhound (Kerry) - Posts: 37 - 27/02/2012 12:25:50    1118269

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I wouldn't be a supporter of counties joining together, it's just totally against tradition. In hurling, I'd be mroe supportive of Christy Ring teams being entered into the Intermediate Championship. Kerry are no where near ready for the Munster Championship. Our senior club champions competed well in the Munster Intermediate level, so why not compete in the Intermediate Championship in inter-county level as well until we are ready for the step up?

Going back to football, I'd love to see provincial championships run in group format:
Munster - 1 group of 6
Connaught - 1 group of 5
Leinster -

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 02/04/2012 13:52:37    1141841

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I wouldn't be a supporter of counties joining together, it's just totally against tradition. In hurling, I'd be mroe supportive of Christy Ring teams being entered into the Intermediate Championship. Kerry are no where near ready for the Munster Championship. Our senior club champions competed well in the Munster Intermediate level, so why not compete in the Intermediate Championship in inter-county level as well until we are ready for the step up?

Going back to football, I'd love to see provincial championships run in group format:
Munster - 1 group of 6
Connaught - 1 group of 5
Leinster - 1 group of 5 and 1 group of 6
Ulster (+ London) - 2 groups of 5

Simple every team plays the other once. Top 2 in Munster and Connaught contest their provincial finals. Ulster and Leinster to have provincial semi-finals competed by the top 2 in each group.

A format would have to be agreed so that 6 third placed teams reduce to 4.

4 provincial winners, 4 provincial runners-up, 4 provincial semi-finalists and 4 third placed teams would compete in a round of 16. Provincial winners home tie versus a third placed team. Provincial runners-up versus a provincial semi-finalist, with a separate draw to determine home tie.

Quarter-finals onwards to be held in Croke Park. I'm not one for disruption of club championship, so possibly the league would need less games to accommodate provincial groups.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 02/04/2012 14:06:31    1141862

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