Donegal Forum

Championship 2020

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Donegal in the last few years cannot match the top teams in Strength and Conditioning , they have been bullied by all the top teams in the physical game. This results in turnovers and loosing possession and even kicking bad passes and wides when they get a hit and cant take it. A clean sweep is needed at the top and adding people like Rochford who failed at Mayo is not the answer.

jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 97 - 22/11/2020 22:17:36    2313533

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Kerry 2014,
Monaghan 2015,
Tyrone 2016,
Tyrone 2018,
Mayo 2019,
Cavan 2020
Big games that Donegal failed to win when in the melting pot.. It doesn't make for good reading unfortunately.

RoryGall35 (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 22/11/2020 22:27:58    2313544

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I think it's time we had Jim McGuinness back in charge again, there's something wrong with the mentality, I know we had men injured etc but that's too many big games we have bottled it, I don't even know if that's what it is, just seems they were all waiting for some to man to get them going, my voice was nearly gone roaring at the telly,
we left that Ulster title behind us but Cavan fully deserve it, what great heart and no small amount of skill they showed.
We all know Donegal are better than we showed today and better than we showed last year in Castlebar, we just have to get the heads right and perform on the big days,
I have great time for Declan but I really think we need the messiah back.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1369 - 22/11/2020 22:28:56    2313545

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Replying To jacktheboy:  "Donegal in the last few years cannot match the top teams in Strength and Conditioning , they have been bullied by all the top teams in the physical game. This results in turnovers and loosing possession and even kicking bad passes and wides when they get a hit and cant take it. A clean sweep is needed at the top and adding people like Rochford who failed at Mayo is not the answer."
Today had nothing to do with S & C like I already said. When missing usually normally routine scores in pressure situations is a mental failure.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2519 - 22/11/2020 22:42:39    2313553

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Hard luck today, I really did think ye would have too much for us but our boys were the hungrier which was the difference in the end. I don't have to tell ye Donegal will be back as sure as there'll be snow on Errigal this winter. There seems to be a conveyor belt of new talent up there that is the envy of most other counties, some real class. See you next year probably, hopefully we do Ulster proud in the meantime

facer4home (Cavan) - Posts: 120 - 22/11/2020 22:45:44    2313554

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Replying To jacktheboy:  "Donegal in the last few years cannot match the top teams in Strength and Conditioning , they have been bullied by all the top teams in the physical game. This results in turnovers and loosing possession and even kicking bad passes and wides when they get a hit and cant take it. A clean sweep is needed at the top and adding people like Rochford who failed at Mayo is not the answer."
Like we didn't have the strength and conditioning to beat Mayo last year but were able to beat Cavan by 5 points (should have been double or more). Yet we don't have it again this year but Cavan have. The S & C excuse doesn't have any credibility this time I am afraid.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2519 - 22/11/2020 23:17:41    2313572

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Replying To panamasam:  "Yeah and they are also now in Division 3. You're talking about years ago their last Ulster was over 20 years ago. If you go over to the main forum I have been very complimentary towards Cavan and certainly was careful not to be disrespectful when a couple certainly were. Donegal were long odds on for a reason which certainly wouldn't be the case playing Tyrone or Mayo."
What's your obsession with Division 3? Anyone who has watched football last few years would know that although we may be down there, Cavan are way better than being classified as a Division 3 team having played a few seasons in Dibioj 2 recently. Very unlucky to be relegated in a disrupted year, kick of a ball could have seen us promoted instead. Quite obvious your thinking all week, and not looking at the team in front of you. League is not the be all and end all. Championship is, and we're Ulster Champions. The disrespect all week from all corners has been illuminating. And still it's all talk from others about Donegal bottling it, not Cavan going on and winning it. An Cabhán Abú

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1098 - 23/11/2020 00:03:14    2313594

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Replying To totalrecall:  "We shouldn't have been caught on the hop as you put it. 3rd year in a row we have had a collective team malfunction in a must win big game. Cavan were full value for their win. Bonner and Rochford have been getting plenty of plaudits, but for whatever reason we did not bring the necessary intensity to the mayo game last year or cavan today, so many really poor individual performances. Patton needs to start taking charge of his goal and stop flapping/punching the ball, McGee was probably our best player and tried to carry the fight to cavan, don't understand why Paul Brennan was replaced, McFadden tried hard. Thought mcbrearty had very poor movement but I would have replaced Jamie Brennan first who was anonymous, Murphy never really got into the game. Gallen and Mcmenamin were huge losses. Next year will be tough, I think we will see a reinvigorated Tyrone under new mgt next year, this Donegal team needs to make a breakthrough at national level, like a strong showing in div1 and making the final. Hopefully the super 8s will get the heave ho but I seriously doubt it. We have a talented squad but we seem to lack the consistency of a really top side. We did the heavy lifting dispatching Tyrone but failed to capitalise on it. Covid19 isn't going away anytime soon and who knows what 2021 will bring?"
Certainly agree with you on some of those points. I too thought Neil McGee was our best player and really brought the fight when the majority of the rest did not. Agree too that our full forward line didn't offer much danger consistently which wasn't a huge surprise given the little game time McBrearty has had but no doubt Jamie Brennan was very disappointing summed up by his tame enough effort when in on goal. The substitution of Paul Brennan was premeditated before the game as he has come off at similar times in the previous games. However bringing on O'Baoill was questionable given he has had few championship minutes. I certainly think the loss of McMenamin spooked us and starting McCole was a trial with an eye on Dublin which was a mistake. Speaking of plaudits it was Patton who was getting as many as anybody and rightfully so given the quality of his kickouts. However there is no doubt he has got spooked and lost his confidence under a high which started in the league against Dublin. It was very nearly costly against Tyrone and I presume the advice has been to punch instead since. The decision to punch in that situation today was poor as well as costly. If you look at his starting position he has to retreat back as he was probably expecting Cavan to play keep ball. Punching a ball when back tracking like that is a very risky game and in fairness it should have been an easy catch for most keepers playing at that level. Given the way Donegal finished the game chasing a goal there were a couple of occasions where an easy point was on. Patton really needs to address this area of his game as today it proved to be very costly and certainly a confidence thing.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2519 - 23/11/2020 00:07:44    2313597

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Replying To totalrecall:  "We shouldn't have been caught on the hop as you put it. 3rd year in a row we have had a collective team malfunction in a must win big game. Cavan were full value for their win. Bonner and Rochford have been getting plenty of plaudits, but for whatever reason we did not bring the necessary intensity to the mayo game last year or cavan today, so many really poor individual performances. Patton needs to start taking charge of his goal and stop flapping/punching the ball, McGee was probably our best player and tried to carry the fight to cavan, don't understand why Paul Brennan was replaced, McFadden tried hard. Thought mcbrearty had very poor movement but I would have replaced Jamie Brennan first who was anonymous, Murphy never really got into the game. Gallen and Mcmenamin were huge losses. Next year will be tough, I think we will see a reinvigorated Tyrone under new mgt next year, this Donegal team needs to make a breakthrough at national level, like a strong showing in div1 and making the final. Hopefully the super 8s will get the heave ho but I seriously doubt it. We have a talented squad but we seem to lack the consistency of a really top side. We did the heavy lifting dispatching Tyrone but failed to capitalise on it. Covid19 isn't going away anytime soon and who knows what 2021 will bring?"
Agree regarding Paul Brennan thought he played well. However Cavan were the better team and played with 14 players for 20 minutes in total due to harsh black cards.

joeman123 (Leitrim) - Posts: 217 - 23/11/2020 00:10:40    2313598

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Sad ending to Donegal quest for all Ireland glory.In what was a horror show,Donegal's performance was a litany of poor handling,passing and turnovers .Donegal looked like the div 3 side, not Cavan.Starting with Patton who is up there with Cluxton, why was he punching a very catchable ball under minimal pressure,the ball ending up in the net. Still time left but now points were no good, it was the death knell.Team selection and changes were beyond bizarre or lack thereof. Mc Cole in no Thompson, what was that?To be fair to McCole with no championship experience he done his best.Jamie Brennan was good for approx 10 turnovers on his own. How he survived the 70 min is baffling or does he have some kind of clause in his county career that excludes him from being substituted. Surely McGettigan must have been worth a look. ODonnell and Langan poor, bad wides and with Murphy operating too close to the'wrong' square the firepower up front wasn't there.There is talent there, 2 Ulsters ,no All Ireland semifinal for this bunch is not acceptable. Time for change at the top table, bye, bye Bonner. As for Cavan ,unbeleivable achievement considering Donegal favoured by one to ten odds. Good luck against the Dubs!

thelowball (USA) - Posts: 307 - 23/11/2020 02:10:58    2313611

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How do you mean he failed at Mayo. He took Dublin to a replay and lost the other all Ireland by a point against probably the best team that ever played Gaelic football. I guarantee you if rochford wasn't with us he would walk into any job maybe bar Dublin. We should be Dam lucky to have the management team we have. A lot of people talking rubbish about the big squad we have rubbish in my eyes. Yea we have about 4 or 5 subs who are as good as what's on the starting team but when injuries happen like they have at this stage since bonner took over this last 3 years it's then we've been found wanting. For us to have any chance of Winning an all Ireland we need a clean bill of health like we got in 2012. If we lost a few players to injuries especially important players would we have win it the answer is no. I'm not saying the management team didnt get some decisions wrong yesterday they did of course.. what management team doesn't. Another important factor this year was Murphy wasn't the same player after lockdown, thing's didn't go well for him yesterday but he kept going to the bitter end but you would expect nothing less from a true leader. Anyway thanks lads again for giving us a couple of great days during these dark times.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 945 - 23/11/2020 08:47:38    2313628

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Replying To benjyyy:  "Some startling stats from today.

We won 28 possessions from kickouts - we scored 0-6 from them. Cavan only won 13 and got 1-5 from them.

Cavan had 31 possessions inside our '45 and got shots away in 30 of them.

We had 38 possessions in Cavans '45 but in 9 of them we lost the ball without getting a shot off.

We lost the ball from a bad pass 11 times (6 vs Armagh and 1 vs Tyrone)"
The bad passes was very noticeable and most were not pressurised, the attack was unfortunately pretty ineffective and really that's what lost the game. The defence despite all the talk was grand. I'd have taken a concession of 1.13 especially as donegal have become more attack minded and that's not taking into account that the goal was a goalkeeper error.

It's a game that mcmenamins, Thompsons and gallens stock went up by not starting or playing and given how the game materialised I wonder would they have made a difference. Though all three have shown leadership this year. Gallen got the winning point against tyrone and it was mcmenamin who was driving on and passed it. Thompson also against tyrone with the frees and points from play. He must have been injured and hope gallen is ok as well.

The wind must have been a bit stronger than it looked and canavan did reference it at ht. All that means that the first half donegal should have been more ahead and got to the pitch if the game much sooner. In saying this it wasn't a wind that you only score one point from play into.

I posted on the main forum yesterday, I meant to post here. Cavan had something in them yesterday, that is hard to quantify and made them get to a level they've never got to before and fair play to them. It will mean an awful lot to such a football mad county. It's something this donegal team need to learn.

The donegal players will still feel rotten about this one and it will hurt. I do believe in this team and hopefully they'll dust themselves down, really believe in themselves, get back on the horse and go again.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 381 - 23/11/2020 09:12:50    2313639

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Replying To jacktheboy:  "Donegal in the last few years cannot match the top teams in Strength and Conditioning , they have been bullied by all the top teams in the physical game. This results in turnovers and loosing possession and even kicking bad passes and wides when they get a hit and cant take it. A clean sweep is needed at the top and adding people like Rochford who failed at Mayo is not the answer."
Were they bullied by Tyrone or Armagh? The answer is no. The result yesterday was not down to S&C at all.

Just a day where so many players had poor games. And giving the credit Cavan deserve they delivered a top performance on the day.

FootballGuy (Donegal) - Posts: 113 - 23/11/2020 09:31:31    2313648

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Replying To panamasam:  "That is one theory. However Tyrone always bring intensity and especially physicality it is one of their main assets. Measuring one against another is pure speculation. One correlation between Tyrone, Mayo and Cavan is that we were one game away from an all Ireland semi final and each time we failed. Its plain to see the work the Donegal lads have put into their S & C. No amount will make up for not handling the situation mentally. S & C had nothing to do with the wides that normally the same players would put over with their eyes closed. Same for hitting the body straight in front of you with the goal open."
panamasam, I would agree with you. Every time Donegal get beat this old chestnut about S & C comes up. This was probably valid in 2018 when Tyrone looked physically stronger than us but in the past couple of years we have really improved our S & C. If this was a problem how did we manage to beat Tyrone on a bad day in Ballybofey? Armagh are hardly lacking in the physical stakes either. We had a system breakdown yesterday, especially up front. It was very similar to the Mayo defeat in Castlebar last year, the opposition looked hungrier for the game and in second half we malfunctioned in attack despite having a lot of chances.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1755 - 23/11/2020 09:35:06    2313649

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Replying To jacktheboy:  "Donegal in the last few years cannot match the top teams in Strength and Conditioning , they have been bullied by all the top teams in the physical game. This results in turnovers and loosing possession and even kicking bad passes and wides when they get a hit and cant take it. A clean sweep is needed at the top and adding people like Rochford who failed at Mayo is not the answer."
I don't know if this is a fair assessment of what happened in the Ulster final in all honesty, I would lean more towards what panamasam has said about what is going on mentally in the squad, decision making was very very poor yesterday as it was in the first half in Castlebar. I don't really count the Super 8s loss to Tyrone as a black mark against the setup because it was their first year and we were well in that game until Odhrán went off injured. I had hoped that the young fellas who struggled in Castlebar would have learned from the experience - but I suppose getting caught in the Ulster final is another experience again versus going into the lion's den last year.

When you look at yesterday, Cavan got the goal just before 70 minutes. We controlled the ball for a few minutes but we panicked, there is no doubt about it. We had a little bit of time to eat into the 4 point deficit - the first thing we had to do was get a point to get it within three. We two bad wides from practically the same spot and after that it was helter skelter trying to get a goal. It was poor game management in my view. Ideally you want your marquee players getting on the ball in those moments but it didn't happen.

We also had a three point lead after half time and we had plenty of possession to see the game out. You have to credit Cavan especially in that second half but obviously we are looking at it from our own POV - what went wrong? I think the second black card period was the huge indicator that the game was gone from us mentally, Cavan I think actually won that period by 2 points to 1? Compared to the first black card where we went up through the gears and got into the lead after a terrible start. What happened in that second half? I don't think you can put it all down to S&C and I don't think it's fair to say Rochford's "failings" at Mayo were S&C either (though am not sure you are saying that?).

I don't think you can blame S&C when on three occasions our players managed to break through Cavan's tackling to create goal chances and we missed all three.

I think management have earned our support for at least another year. But we need to break through to an All-Ireland semi-final in 2021 at minimum. We need to win a big, do or die game outside of Ulster. I feel sick today in all honesty I am at a total loss after that defeat yesterday. The only consolation is that at least 2021 isn't far away.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1167 - 23/11/2020 10:00:43    2313668

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Replying To facer4home:  "Hard luck today, I really did think ye would have too much for us but our boys were the hungrier which was the difference in the end. I don't have to tell ye Donegal will be back as sure as there'll be snow on Errigal this winter. There seems to be a conveyor belt of new talent up there that is the envy of most other counties, some real class. See you next year probably, hopefully we do Ulster proud in the meantime"
Thanks facer4home, there's no little talent in your own county as well I hope the Ulster win will give the county a boost and yous can capitalise on it better than the breakthrough in 1997. I have a funny feeling we'll be meeting again in Ulster next year. Maith sibh agus ádh mór in aghaidh BÁC

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1167 - 23/11/2020 10:04:51    2313674

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "What's your obsession with Division 3? Anyone who has watched football last few years would know that although we may be down there, Cavan are way better than being classified as a Division 3 team having played a few seasons in Dibioj 2 recently. Very unlucky to be relegated in a disrupted year, kick of a ball could have seen us promoted instead. Quite obvious your thinking all week, and not looking at the team in front of you. League is not the be all and end all. Championship is, and we're Ulster Champions. The disrespect all week from all corners has been illuminating. And still it's all talk from others about Donegal bottling it, not Cavan going on and winning it. An Cabhán Abú"
Hi Loughduff, I agree that the Division 3 status was trotted out too often and didn't make sense when you looked at Cavan's actual league campaign. Division 2 is insanely competitive and as you say only a kick of a ball changed the outcome for yous. But who cares, as you say, you're champions - comhghairdeas arís

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1167 - 23/11/2020 10:06:26    2313677

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Eoin McHugh I thought had a brilliant game against Armagh and his reward for this was being played out of position for the game yesterday. How come C. Ward not put in instead of B. McCole and let McHugh play in a position more suited to him.

Thomo and Gallen where massive misses up front. As for J.Brennan he has been missing since the tyrone league game and Murphy has been non existent since the return.

Anyways onwards and up wards lets hope the county board do the right thing and play the Co.Final the weekend of the 12th

naomh_conaill_4 (Donegal) - Posts: 366 - 23/11/2020 10:13:06    2313687

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "What's your obsession with Division 3? Anyone who has watched football last few years would know that although we may be down there, Cavan are way better than being classified as a Division 3 team having played a few seasons in Dibioj 2 recently. Very unlucky to be relegated in a disrupted year, kick of a ball could have seen us promoted instead. Quite obvious your thinking all week, and not looking at the team in front of you. League is not the be all and end all. Championship is, and we're Ulster Champions. The disrespect all week from all corners has been illuminating. And still it's all talk from others about Donegal bottling it, not Cavan going on and winning it. An Cabhán Abú"
I have been at the last 3 games we played ye over the last few years as you say, two in the championship and one in the league. The combined margin of victory was 21 points and in truth could have been more especially last year. So yes I was confident Donegal would win but that is an opinion not being disrespectful. Its a bit sad and pathetic that in the hours of your glory you have nothing better to do than make exaggerated claims about obsessions and such. Despite again congrats on a thoroughly deserved Ulster title yesterday.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2519 - 23/11/2020 10:19:31    2313698

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Replying To facer4home:  "Hard luck today, I really did think ye would have too much for us but our boys were the hungrier which was the difference in the end. I don't have to tell ye Donegal will be back as sure as there'll be snow on Errigal this winter. There seems to be a conveyor belt of new talent up there that is the envy of most other counties, some real class. See you next year probably, hopefully we do Ulster proud in the meantime"
Thanks facer and congrats on a thoroughly deserved win yesterday. There is plenty of talent in Donegal alright and we will certainly be strong in Ulster in the immediate future. However there are obvious mental flaws that really needs to be addressed if we have aspirations beyond Ulster.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2519 - 23/11/2020 10:24:27    2313703

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