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Wexford Hurling Greatest Clubs

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What has happened to the King Pins of Wexford Hurling and how do you get them back near the top again .

Wexford Hurling needs clubs like Rathnure , Oulart and Buffers Alley to be strong .

Can you see these clubs getting back there .
It's tough as they are rural areas and the martins are getting stronger and have huge catchment area .

Camanmad (Wexford) - Posts: 6 - 12/12/2019 19:00:30    2254492

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I never get the idea that any county "needs" a certain number of traditional powerhouses to be successful. Everything should be cyclical surely?

In 1968, there was a mish-mash of different clubs represented in the All-Ireland winning team-I would actually hazard a guess that it may be a record for the highest number of different clubs involved.

Hell even in 1996, the starting team was comprised of players from an array of clubs such as Duffry Rovers, Naomh Eanna, Liam Mellows and Glynn Barntown. Martin's, the club with the most representatives from the starting XV, had yet to win a senior title too, while Oulart only had two in the bag by then.

Its the development and coaching done at all grassroots level, not just at the "strongholds", that is key to sustained success at county level. A rising tide lifts all boats as they say. And actually, the aforementioned big three seem to be building decent teams at under-age level to be fair so maybe the perceived famine won't be too sustained.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 761 - 12/12/2019 20:25:07    2254523

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Replying To beano:  "I never get the idea that any county "needs" a certain number of traditional powerhouses to be successful. Everything should be cyclical surely?

In 1968, there was a mish-mash of different clubs represented in the All-Ireland winning team-I would actually hazard a guess that it may be a record for the highest number of different clubs involved.

Hell even in 1996, the starting team was comprised of players from an array of clubs such as Duffry Rovers, Naomh Eanna, Liam Mellows and Glynn Barntown. Martin's, the club with the most representatives from the starting XV, had yet to win a senior title too, while Oulart only had two in the bag by then.

Its the development and coaching done at all grassroots level, not just at the "strongholds", that is key to sustained success at county level. A rising tide lifts all boats as they say. And actually, the aforementioned big three seem to be building decent teams at under-age level to be fair so maybe the perceived famine won't be too sustained."
True , they are building for the future but clubs are losing talent to soccer , rugby .

It's sad to see Wexford's only Club All Ireland Winners in intermediate.

I think it's harder for the rural clubs

Camanmad (Wexford) - Posts: 6 - 12/12/2019 20:55:31    2254530

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Replying To Camanmad:  "What has happened to the King Pins of Wexford Hurling and how do you get them back near the top again .

Wexford Hurling needs clubs like Rathnure , Oulart and Buffers Alley to be strong .

Can you see these clubs getting back there .
It's tough as they are rural areas and the martins are getting stronger and have huge catchment area ."
St Martin's are so far behind on senior county titles from Oulart and Rathnure it's hard to see will they ever bridge the gap.
They wouldn't have much tradition as a club but they are strong now alright.

Oulart have very good under 13,14,15 ages groups.

Rathnure have some lovely young hurlers coming through also.

The big tradional clubs won't be down for long.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 296 - 13/12/2019 00:06:47    2254572

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Replying To beano:  "I never get the idea that any county "needs" a certain number of traditional powerhouses to be successful. Everything should be cyclical surely?

In 1968, there was a mish-mash of different clubs represented in the All-Ireland winning team-I would actually hazard a guess that it may be a record for the highest number of different clubs involved.

Hell even in 1996, the starting team was comprised of players from an array of clubs such as Duffry Rovers, Naomh Eanna, Liam Mellows and Glynn Barntown. Martin's, the club with the most representatives from the starting XV, had yet to win a senior title too, while Oulart only had two in the bag by then.

Its the development and coaching done at all grassroots level, not just at the "strongholds", that is key to sustained success at county level. A rising tide lifts all boats as they say. And actually, the aforementioned big three seem to be building decent teams at under-age level to be fair so maybe the perceived famine won't be too sustained."
I'd also agree with this and it also contributes to one of the biggest bits of snobbery in the county. The "big clubs" who consider themselves so much better than the uppidy clubs who dare to take them on. There is a huge amount of snobbery in Wexford club hurling that has improved, but for years manifested itself particularly in county teams where a player from a "traditional club" was always seen above players from less historically hurling orientated clubs. It's improving somewhat, but it is still there. Often a manager will look at the club name before seeing the ability of a player. And you still see it now. Some clubs from what would be considered "football areas" doing well in hurling and they arent given any credence at all.

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 563 - 13/12/2019 10:06:16    2254615

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Replying To james2011:  "I'd also agree with this and it also contributes to one of the biggest bits of snobbery in the county. The "big clubs" who consider themselves so much better than the uppidy clubs who dare to take them on. There is a huge amount of snobbery in Wexford club hurling that has improved, but for years manifested itself particularly in county teams where a player from a "traditional club" was always seen above players from less historically hurling orientated clubs. It's improving somewhat, but it is still there. Often a manager will look at the club name before seeing the ability of a player. And you still see it now. Some clubs from what would be considered "football areas" doing well in hurling and they arent given any credence at all."
I'm not sure about that. Plenty of examples in recent years and also in the past of players from intermediate and even junior clubs getting extended runs with the county team or panel.

It might be the case the odd time that if there's really little to choose between a senior club player and an intermediate/junior player, that the county management opts for the man from the senior club, because of how he plays against a higher standard of opponent more often. But in general, if somebody from an intermediate or junior club is genuinely good enough for the county squad, he'll get his chance the same as anybody else.

And to take you up specifically on your last point - what clubs from "football areas" have been doing well in hurling in the past few years, but not getting credit for it?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 480 - 13/12/2019 12:25:20    2254652

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At the end of the day folks Wexford hurlings greatest club currently is St Martins.
Oulart, Rathnure, Buffers Alley, St Aidans, Adamstown, its all in the past tense. Its in the history books.
The greatest club is the club with the cup in their hands at the moment.

hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1447 - 13/12/2019 12:45:08    2254657

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Back to the thing about "traditional big clubs" apparently "needing" to be strong again…

History of the Wexford senior hurling championship is actually a bit peculiar in that it's full of episodes of one club dominating for an extended period of time (or two, in the case of Rathnure & Buffers Alley in the 1970s and 80s), only to then fall away.

Early years of the Association were dominated by the Castlebridge area, up to a couple of titles won by the Sally Beechers club. Adamstown then took over and won 11 championships in 16 years between 1926 and 1942.

Mid 40s to late 50s then dominated by Enniscorthy St. Aidan's - 9 titles in 13 years.

1960s were the exception, as six different clubs won the title. Significantly though, it saw the emergence of Buffers Alley in 1968. The Alley and Rathnure then absolutely dominated things between them right up to the early 90s. From 1970 up to 1992, there were only two years (Rapps 1978, Harriers 1981) when either one or the other of them didn't win it.

Oulart/The Ballagh then claimed their first title in 1994, and went on to win 12 more up to 2016. Seldom a year during that time when they wouldn't have been favourites for the championship.

Several signs now that we could be heading for a period of St. Martin's dominance for the next ten years or more.

So, do we "need" traditional clubs to be strong? I don't think so. Wexford made the breakthrough in the 1950s without many from what was then the "traditional strong clubs" from Castlebridge and Adamstown. Won an All-Ireland in 1968 without Enniscorthy St. Aidan's. Won 1996 without being backboned by Rathnure and Buffers Alley. Won Leinster and could have reached an All-Ireland Final this year without anybody from them either.

Surely the important thing is that we can produce good hurlers across the county, and not rely on just a handful of "traditional big clubs" to do it?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 480 - 13/12/2019 12:58:29    2254660

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I'm not sure about that. Plenty of examples in recent years and also in the past of players from intermediate and even junior clubs getting extended runs with the county team or panel.

It might be the case the odd time that if there's really little to choose between a senior club player and an intermediate/junior player, that the county management opts for the man from the senior club, because of how he plays against a higher standard of opponent more often. But in general, if somebody from an intermediate or junior club is genuinely good enough for the county squad, he'll get his chance the same as anybody else.

And to take you up specifically on your last point - what clubs from "football areas" have been doing well in hurling in the past few years, but not getting credit for it?"
Winners of the Intermediate A championship for the last 4 years included St James', Fethard and Taghmon, all of whom would be considered by many to be football clubs. Winners of junior have seen Gusserane win out and only narrowly miss out on promotion this year in Int A, along with New Ross who lost this years final. Clongeen and Bannow were once senior football but both well down and only a grade up from their hurling divisions.

But mainly, the point being that there is a deep snobbery in Wexford for a longing of the "traditional" clubs. Even regardless of where they now may lie and other clubs ahead of them or doing more. An anecdotal story, but at a game this year our hurlers played another clubs second team and a roar from one of their men on the line was to F off and play football. yet their first side was plying their trade in the intermediate grade and its been a generation or more since they won a senior title, as if they have some sort of superiority over us.

No intention to drag this debate down, but having clubs do a huge amount of work to improve their hurling standards should not be seen as a loss of the "traditional" clubs. I'd consider Adamstown a far more traditional club than some others but yet no one longs for their return.

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 563 - 13/12/2019 12:58:48    2254661

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But how did those Intermediate A winners "not get any credit"? Or what extra credit do you think they should have got?

As for your anecdotal story...I can hazard a guess as to the club you're talking about. If I'm correct, there's a certain cohort of the older guard there who'd tend to think that way all right. But I don't think those views are representative of senior and/or "traditional" clubs as a whole.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 480 - 13/12/2019 13:52:55    2254675

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "But how did those Intermediate A winners "not get any credit"? Or what extra credit do you think they should have got?

As for your anecdotal story...I can hazard a guess as to the club you're talking about. If I'm correct, there's a certain cohort of the older guard there who'd tend to think that way all right. But I don't think those views are representative of senior and/or "traditional" clubs as a whole."
Not sure. Experience over the years, particularly seeing development squads etc would tell me that a lot of importance is placed on "traditional clubs". Changing somewhat, but it is definitely still around.

Anyway, its only a moot point. totally agree with your other post there about having a big spread of clubs and players contributing at county level. I dont see the need for having traditional clubs being the backbone either. should be a sign of a healthy county to have such a large spread and not be depending on 3 or 4 clubs propping it up.

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 563 - 13/12/2019 14:30:46    2254685

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Replying To Camanmad:  "What has happened to the King Pins of Wexford Hurling and how do you get them back near the top again .

Wexford Hurling needs clubs like Rathnure , Oulart and Buffers Alley to be strong .

Can you see these clubs getting back there .
It's tough as they are rural areas and the martins are getting stronger and have huge catchment area ."
St. Martins have a big pick and catchment area? Is it bigger than Kilmuckridge, Monamolin, Ballyedmond? Or Rathnure, Killann, Templudigan, Ballwilliam, or Oulart, The Ballagh, Rahenduff?
The worst thing that ever happens a county is 2-3 dominant clubs. The best thing ever happen to Wexford was the ending of this dominance and sure look, if these clubs are as great as their past deeds, they will come back.
And the 2nd worst thing to happen to a county is a mindset to develop that a lad has to play senior club to be able to hurl, it is unique to Wexford this mindset and a few bob helps, but it never stopped Nickey English, Derek Lyng, Aidan Fogarty, Joe Deane, etc hurling.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1257 - 13/12/2019 21:23:15    2254753

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "St. Martins have a big pick and catchment area? Is it bigger than Kilmuckridge, Monamolin, Ballyedmond? Or Rathnure, Killann, Templudigan, Ballwilliam, or Oulart, The Ballagh, Rahenduff?
The worst thing that ever happens a county is 2-3 dominant clubs. The best thing ever happen to Wexford was the ending of this dominance and sure look, if these clubs are as great as their past deeds, they will come back.
And the 2nd worst thing to happen to a county is a mindset to develop that a lad has to play senior club to be able to hurl, it is unique to Wexford this mindset and a few bob helps, but it never stopped Nickey English, Derek Lyng, Aidan Fogarty, Joe Deane, etc hurling."
I don't know but I would have guessed the rural clubs just outside wexford town Martins, glynn, shels and crossabeg would all have big picks. Ferns is actually the biggest parish in wexford in terms of size but don't know population wise.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3225 - 15/12/2019 00:10:49    2254911

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Replying To wexico15:  "I don't know but I would have guessed the rural clubs just outside wexford town Martins, glynn, shels and crossabeg would all have big picks. Ferns is actually the biggest parish in wexford in terms of size but don't know population wise."
Oulart the Ballagh have two small parishes to pick their hurlers from, but it is still two parishes. A lot of hurling played in both primary schools also.

Faythe Harriers always have had good underage hurlers but only won 1 x SHC in 2001. Can be sometimes harder for town clubs to hold onto hurlers with soccer etc and town distractions.

Wexford hurling is in a very good place.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 296 - 15/12/2019 01:54:44    2254914

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Oulart the Ballagh have two small parishes to pick their hurlers from, but it is still two parishes. A lot of hurling played in both primary schools also.

Faythe Harriers always have had good underage hurlers but only won 1 x SHC in 2001. Can be sometimes harder for town clubs to hold onto hurlers with soccer etc and town distractions.

Wexford hurling is in a very good place."
It's not 2 parishes, and the Harriers have won 5 Wexford senior hurling championships

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 268 - 15/12/2019 16:38:18    2254995

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "St. Martins have a big pick and catchment area? Is it bigger than Kilmuckridge, Monamolin, Ballyedmond? Or Rathnure, Killann, Templudigan, Ballwilliam, or Oulart, The Ballagh, Rahenduff?
The worst thing that ever happens a county is 2-3 dominant clubs. The best thing ever happen to Wexford was the ending of this dominance and sure look, if these clubs are as great as their past deeds, they will come back.
And the 2nd worst thing to happen to a county is a mindset to develop that a lad has to play senior club to be able to hurl, it is unique to Wexford this mindset and a few bob helps, but it never stopped Nickey English, Derek Lyng, Aidan Fogarty, Joe Deane, etc hurling."
St.Martins might not have a big area but they have a massive population compared to other clubs. Three teams in hurling and I heard it mentioned last year that they were thinking about a fourth for the season ahead. Its just the way it is, the strong clubs with big areas, big populations will always nearly dominate.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 200 - 15/12/2019 16:39:13    2254997

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Replying To alwaysasub:  "St.Martins might not have a big area but they have a massive population compared to other clubs. Three teams in hurling and I heard it mentioned last year that they were thinking about a fourth for the season ahead. Its just the way it is, the strong clubs with big areas, big populations will always nearly dominate."
They manage to keep lads playing after underage thats why they have big numbers. Easy for other clubs to use that as an excuse.

Waltermitty2 (Wexford) - Posts: 201 - 15/12/2019 17:24:59    2255007

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Replying To Waltermitty2:  "They manage to keep lads playing after underage thats why they have big numbers. Easy for other clubs to use that as an excuse."
Ah here. Are you serious? I know those clubs could have 25 to 26 players in there underage teams with over half up to the age while smaller clubs might 3 or 4 players up to age while pulling players from younger teams to make up numbers.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 200 - 15/12/2019 20:30:58    2255035

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Replying To Onfor15:  "It's not 2 parishes, and the Harriers have won 5 Wexford senior hurling championships"
I assumed Oulart was a village? And is there not a village called The Ballagh aswel?

I thought they joined together to former once club but were different villages.

My bad.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 296 - 15/12/2019 21:05:51    2255045

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Replying To Past hurler:  "I assumed Oulart was a village? And is there not a village called The Ballagh aswel?

I thought they joined together to former once club but were different villages.

My bad."
1 parish, two villages, the same as a lot of other GAA clubs both in Wexford and in other counties. They were formed using the parish boundary and often named after both villages in the parish....Oylegate-Glenbrien, Rathgarogue Cushinstown, Marshalstown-Castledockrell, Kilrush Askamore, Kilanerin Ballyfad, Monageer Boolavogue, Davidstown Courtnacuddy, Crossabeg Ballymurn, Glynn Barntown, Loughmore Castleliney, Rathdowney Errill, Graigue Ballycallan etc

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 268 - 15/12/2019 21:37:18    2255050

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