Donegal Forum

Championship 2020

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Yes I think they'll be hoping with a vaccine rolling out that crowds will be let back in by late Summer, by God I'm looking forward to the next game I can go to.
I think we would have given Dublin a great game if we'd played as well as we can, but we'll never know now and it's a lost opportunity, we just have to suck it up now and put it down to experience.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1183 - 07/12/2020 11:51:39    2319700

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Why would you risk in house games the way the Championship was so condensed this year? all they needed was a bit of maintenance and recovery work, why run the hell out of them on heavy ground and play full contact games on the same heavy ground? nuts."
Agree with you there about not playing in house matches the week of a game. It's just too risky . I don't know do other counties play them. But the way counties train now it's all about sharpness. So if you get away injury free with them it's great but the luck we're having with these in house games especially the week of a game I would be wary of playing them the week of big games. In saying you can't wrap them up in cotton wool either. As somebody alluded to Mc Guinness trained them as hard the week of games as he did at any other time.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 894 - 07/12/2020 12:18:03    2319719

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Yes I think they'll be hoping with a vaccine rolling out that crowds will be let back in by late Summer, by God I'm looking forward to the next game I can go to.
I think we would have given Dublin a great game if we'd played as well as we can, but we'll never know now and it's a lost opportunity, we just have to suck it up now and put it down to experience."
Same here. You'd like to think that whenever it's safe for large crowds to gather (might be a good while away yet) that there will be bumper crowds going to games.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7163 - 07/12/2020 13:00:23    2319738

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I would say a lot of people and particularly the team would have loved a crack at Dublin but Cavan showed up and deserved their win. Donegal have to just have to live with that. I suppose if they don't collectively learn from it and apply it going forward maybe they are not as good as a lot of people think.

When watching Dublin you have to marvel at their aggressive work rate. To me it's their their best attribute. The pressure they put in the ball is immense. It's from the forwards back. Any bit of dithering, fumbling of the ball, getting isolated they are all over you. If they can manage to get contact further up the pitch and turn you over then all the better as they nearly always score off it. If you can withstand it then and physically compete then their way of playing will create an open game. That's why I think mayo have compete well in the past against them because they can withstand it and bring plenty physicality as well.

That physicality and aggressive work rate is something I think Donegal need to really work on.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 353 - 07/12/2020 14:06:21    2319764

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@ Rory, still in the good oul USA lad, where are u, marooned on fantasy island! Just to keep up u updated, Cavan just showed u how far off the mark Donegal team and management are! Now S&C coach being moved out obviously for the wrong reasons, someone has to be scapegoated! Hope springs eternal , Bonner still plenty of time to think over the Christmas and then take his walk out the door in the New Year.

thelowball (USA) - Posts: 288 - 07/12/2020 14:09:08    2319767

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Replying To thelowball:  "@ Rory, still in the good oul USA lad, where are u, marooned on fantasy island! Just to keep up u updated, Cavan just showed u how far off the mark Donegal team and management are! Now S&C coach being moved out obviously for the wrong reasons, someone has to be scapegoated! Hope springs eternal , Bonner still plenty of time to think over the Christmas and then take his walk out the door in the New Year."
Keep the faith low ball. So with Tipperary getting tanked yesterday that means Kerry are doomed too... you don't look at football like that lad . Happy to hear your still keeping the home county in your thoughts. Happy x mas to you, hopefully you'll keep supporting bonner and the boys in 2021.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 894 - 07/12/2020 14:30:20    2319774

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@ Rory, Don't compare Kerry to anyone else in the country when it comes to the football yardstick.Right now the Dubs are untouchable but Kerry always in the equation. As for Tipp V Mayo , don't think it was a tanking, Tipp forwards couldn't put the ball in the ocean, missing 3 to 4 great goal chances. Will leave it at that, Merry Christmas u and all!

thelowball (USA) - Posts: 288 - 07/12/2020 14:58:48    2319789

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Replying To panamasam:  "How do you know this to be the case?"
From one of the players...

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 534 - 07/12/2020 23:07:13    2320055

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Replying To rorysboys:  "I think your wrong, from what I heard both got injured in an in house game. Big difference from being trained hard I may add."
You heard wrong, Mcmenamin (before Armagh game), gallen, Thompson (both in week before cavan game) all picked up injuries in training. Players left it on the training field in week before cavan game because management were looking ahead to Dublin game which was criminal.

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 534 - 07/12/2020 23:11:54    2320056

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Replying To totalrecall:  "You heard wrong, Mcmenamin (before Armagh game), gallen, Thompson (both in week before cavan game) all picked up injuries in training. Players left it on the training field in week before cavan game because management were looking ahead to Dublin game which was criminal."
Sounds a bit like an excuse.

We probably trained hard for both games. (Dublin and Cavan).
I don't think Bonner would ever be that complacent.
I think that our players may have taken their eye off the ball, but not the management.
Plus, you have to credit Cavan, who were considerably better than us 2 weeks ago, not just marginally.
Their point taking was sensational; this had nothing to do with our training.
Cavan are a good side now and from now on, will be a tough nut to crack every year in ulster.

Maybe Gallen and Thompson just got injured as described, in a training match. I don't think that overtraining would be an issue anymore. People are too wise to the problems associated with it. A knock or a heavy knock in an in-house game is another story.

But these are the risks that you have to take. Same thing happens in sparring before a fight sometimes. A boxer gets a hard belt and doesn't fight well the night of the fight as a result.

I hope we show well next year.

Monaghan, Cavan and Tyrone will all be our biggest rivals going for the Anglo Celt.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 09/12/2020 12:38:07    2320617

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Replying To Donegalman:  "Sounds a bit like an excuse.

We probably trained hard for both games. (Dublin and Cavan).
I don't think Bonner would ever be that complacent.
I think that our players may have taken their eye off the ball, but not the management.
Plus, you have to credit Cavan, who were considerably better than us 2 weeks ago, not just marginally.
Their point taking was sensational; this had nothing to do with our training.
Cavan are a good side now and from now on, will be a tough nut to crack every year in ulster.

Maybe Gallen and Thompson just got injured as described, in a training match. I don't think that overtraining would be an issue anymore. People are too wise to the problems associated with it. A knock or a heavy knock in an in-house game is another story.

But these are the risks that you have to take. Same thing happens in sparring before a fight sometimes. A boxer gets a hard belt and doesn't fight well the night of the fight as a result.

I hope we show well next year.

Monaghan, Cavan and Tyrone will all be our biggest rivals going for the Anglo Celt."
I would be surprised if Cavan are much of a threat next year I would say they are a very mediocre team.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 700 - 09/12/2020 14:58:52    2320686

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Replying To gunman:  "I would be surprised if Cavan are much of a threat next year I would say they are a very mediocre team."
I would fancy us to beat Cavan next year. A wounded animal comes to mind. Not taking anything away from Cavan this year. They played superbly in final. Armagh are better than they showed against us. Tyrone are the team to beat hopefully when the draw is made we'll avoid them in the early stages. I don't want a super 8 next year but I would be in favour of the back door.. the system this year was exciting but it left two very one sided semi finals.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 894 - 09/12/2020 16:05:26    2320716

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Replying To rorysboys:  "I would fancy us to beat Cavan next year. A wounded animal comes to mind. Not taking anything away from Cavan this year. They played superbly in final. Armagh are better than they showed against us. Tyrone are the team to beat hopefully when the draw is made we'll avoid them in the early stages. I don't want a super 8 next year but I would be in favour of the back door.. the system this year was exciting but it left two very one sided semi finals."
Agreed Rorys ditch the super 8's but have a backdoor. The old system was fine with the quarter finals anyways.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2492 - 09/12/2020 17:24:41    2320765

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Replying To panamasam:  "Agreed Rorys ditch the super 8's but have a backdoor. The old system was fine with the quarter finals anyways."
We have to have at least a back door and I have to admit I like the super 8 idea but we are unlikely to have it given that next year will probably not be a normal year either.Looking long term the only way to determine the best team in the land is a league system.It is absolutely ridiculous that with the amount of training and preparation put in by teams that they could be out of our premier competition after one game.Some way of combining league and championship has to be the way forward with maybe a knockout competition where the weaker teams could get a crack at the big guns similar to soccer.But I guess with players also playing club football the calendar would be the enemy.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 700 - 09/12/2020 20:25:20    2320849

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Replying To panamasam:  "Agreed Rorys ditch the super 8's but have a backdoor. The old system was fine with the quarter finals anyways."
The only thing wrong with old system were the beaten provincial finalists were at a disadvantage having to play the quarter final so soon after losing their provincial final. that would have to be addressed, maybe leave a 2 week gap and maybe home advantage.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1183 - 09/12/2020 22:31:53    2320898

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "The only thing wrong with old system were the beaten provincial finalists were at a disadvantage having to play the quarter final so soon after losing their provincial final. that would have to be addressed, maybe leave a 2 week gap and maybe home advantage."
Ya agreed regarding the 2 weeks but maybe neutral venue or draw to determine home advantage.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2492 - 10/12/2020 23:52:46    2321241

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Replying To gunman:  "I would be surprised if Cavan are much of a threat next year I would say they are a very mediocre team."
They beat us in 2013 and 2014 on the trot in the u21 competition and that was a team that included McBrearty and Ryan Mchugh etc.

We were very fancied to win back then.

I thought a bit more about the loss 2 weeks ago and the more I consider the theory that we over trained, the less I see it making sense. No strength and conditioning trainer would allow it to happen in this day and age.

In my opinion, Cavan were more up for it, hungrier and took their scores very well.

Last year, Mayo were more up for it, hungrier and beat us fairly similarly.

They were both matches that we fancied our chances in. Supporters (including myself), thought that the money was virtually in the bank. It transpired on both occasions that it was not the case.

I won't ever make that same mistake again.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 12/12/2020 09:45:37    2321524

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Replying To Donegalman:  "They beat us in 2013 and 2014 on the trot in the u21 competition and that was a team that included McBrearty and Ryan Mchugh etc.

We were very fancied to win back then.

I thought a bit more about the loss 2 weeks ago and the more I consider the theory that we over trained, the less I see it making sense. No strength and conditioning trainer would allow it to happen in this day and age.

In my opinion, Cavan were more up for it, hungrier and took their scores very well.

Last year, Mayo were more up for it, hungrier and beat us fairly similarly.

They were both matches that we fancied our chances in. Supporters (including myself), thought that the money was virtually in the bank. It transpired on both occasions that it was not the case.

I won't ever make that same mistake again."
I wouldn't rule out the training issue and I wouldn't overestimate how smart the S&C people are.My own theory is that the training was geared for Dublin and the Cavan game was not going to interupt that,probably just treating it as part of the training like their inhouse games.We all probably underestimated Cavan and there is no reason to believe that management and players were not in the same boat.I still would not rate Cavan very highly but their sheer ferocity and determination caught us out but had we been playing them in Croke Park like Dublin were we too would have wiped them out.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 700 - 12/12/2020 12:11:17    2321544

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Replying To gunman:  "I wouldn't rule out the training issue and I wouldn't overestimate how smart the S&C people are.My own theory is that the training was geared for Dublin and the Cavan game was not going to interupt that,probably just treating it as part of the training like their inhouse games.We all probably underestimated Cavan and there is no reason to believe that management and players were not in the same boat.I still would not rate Cavan very highly but their sheer ferocity and determination caught us out but had we been playing them in Croke Park like Dublin were we too would have wiped them out."
Time will tell if Cavan are a flash in the pan or not. League form would suggest so. underage form over the past several years not so. We know the talent is there. So we will have to wait and see how consistent they are.

I would have confidence in strength and conditioning coaches. They are well trained and highly qualified now and are under pressure to keep players injury free from both an ethical point of view and their own reputation too.

It would shock me if they were to risk a full 9 months of training and diet for a week of intense training where the gains would be negative rather than incrementally good. There is too much negative evidence out there now to run that sort of a gamble.

Anyway, onward to the next season.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 13/12/2020 11:18:05    2321818

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I hear there is a big name lined up to replace Fisher, sooner the better. Will need to hit the ground running in January.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 15/12/2020 09:16:04    2322517

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