|
Replying To Viking66: "Wouldn't the North Leinster team be pretty much the Westmeath team? Maybe the odd 1 or 2 from Louth and Longford?" Bit like how Connacht teams in the Railway Cup used to be 14 from Galway and then Dave Sinnott of Mayo (and originally from Wexford) in goal.
You're forgetting Meath. But overall, it'd be another flaw in the Mayo man's plan. "North Leinster" would probably be 75 to 80% Westmeath, 15 to 20% Meath, and maybe the odd one or two from Louth and Longford. Hard to see what it would do for hurling in those two counties.
Similarly with "Team Ulster". If you were picking it this year, how many from the likes of Cavan, Monaghan or Fermanagh would be in the squad?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3763 - 11/06/2026 11:29:08
2678969
Link
0
|
|
Replying To WanPintWin: "True. Hurling is already tiered though, as the levels are much lower in some counties, many with only a handful of hurling clubs. The winners of some county championships go into the All-Ireland intermediate and junior championships.
However, football is much more difficult to tier, as there are and have been strong clubs from many counties, including those considered weaker at intercounty level." True too. Clubs from weaker counties in Football have definitely produced more exceptional teams than has been the case in hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19986 - 11/06/2026 12:25:45
2678976
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Bit like how Connacht teams in the Railway Cup used to be 14 from Galway and then Dave Sinnott of Mayo (and originally from Wexford) in goal.
You're forgetting Meath. But overall, it'd be another flaw in the Mayo man's plan. "North Leinster" would probably be 75 to 80% Westmeath, 15 to 20% Meath, and maybe the odd one or two from Louth and Longford. Hard to see what it would do for hurling in those two counties.
Similarly with "Team Ulster". If you were picking it this year, how many from the likes of Cavan, Monaghan or Fermanagh would be in the squad?" Sorry I wasnt meaning any disrespect to Meath, its just Id think of them as mid Leinster as opposed to North Leinster!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19986 - 11/06/2026 12:39:06
2678977
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "Sorry I wasnt meaning any disrespect to Meath, its just Id think of them as mid Leinster as opposed to North Leinster!" Well, it's more North than South. But anyway - how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?? :D
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3763 - 11/06/2026 13:01:34
2678980
Link
0
|
|
The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1875 - 11/06/2026 13:11:51
2678981
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tirawleybaron: "The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly." I suppose it does border Cavan up around Virginia ok! Just most Meath people I know live on the Kildare border.
And hurling was played in most of the counties where it is strong long before cricket was a big thing. Kilkenny the most obvious exception to that.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19986 - 11/06/2026 14:03:47
2678992
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tirawleybaron: "The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly." I suppose it does border Cavan up around Virginia ok! Just most Meath people I know live on the Kildare border.
And hurling was played in most of the counties where it is strong long before cricket was a big thing. Kilkenny the most obvious exception to that.
I agree with the rest of your post though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19986 - 11/06/2026 14:04:46
2678993
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tirawleybaron: "The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly." So many holes in the plan that it's hard to know where to start in dissecting it.
So, all I'll say is to take your second line there ("Do what you've always done and get what you always got."), and turn it inwards.
If a county is serious about improving its lot in hurling, then is it not first up to that county to change how it does things itself, rather than tinkering with championship structures and artificial amalgamations in the hope that somebody else can do it for them?
As I've said before in relation to this sort of thing - horse, water, and drink. You could throw all the hurling resources in the world at such counties, and make all the changes in the world to try improve them, but if they don't have a genuine will themselves to take advantage of them, then nothing will change anyway.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3763 - 11/06/2026 14:40:58
2679003
Link
0
|
|
How about this:
As 'growing the game' is the goal, my preference is "Option Two", but I start with "Option One" for ease of presentation.
All teams play mixed-province, inter-group ties, encompassing all Prov 'KO ties', prior to AIC KO:
TWO OPTIONS
OPTION ONE
- Munster KO 5 & Leinster KO 5
- AIC with two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Groups 'formed', not drawn
- Muns QF loser to Group A, winner to B
- SF opponent of Muns QF winner to A
- Muns Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Muns SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Muns trio in A & pair in B
- Lein QF winner to Group A, loser to B
- SF opponent of Lein QF winner to B
- Lein Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Lein SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Lein pair in A & trio in B
- Merge to form two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Each team completes a 5-game inter-group
schedule, including all their Prov KO ties (1-3)
- Prov KO is 'winner on the day' (1 point each, if
drawn at full time)
- Top 6 advance to AIC KO from a combined 10-
team table
- Top 2 of 6 earn QF byes (not necessarily Prov
Champs)
- AIC KO targets 'intra-group ties' to avoid
repeat pairings
- QFs could be 3v6 & 4v5 (avoid repeat pairings,
if possible)
SFs could have 'seed 1 v lowest QF seed winner'
SCHEDULE:
- Apr 18/19: Muns QF & Lein QF
- Apr 25/26: 4 Prov SFs & 1 'Cross-Prov' tie (QF
losers); then 'form' Groups A & B
- May 2/3: Bye Week
- May 9/10: 3 'Cross-Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties
- May 16/17: 5 'Cross-Prov' ties
- May 23/24: Bye Week
- May 30/31: 1 'Cross- Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties (bye week for Prov
Finalists)
- June 6/7: 2 Prov Finals & 3 'Cross-Prov' ties
Currently, there are 25 Provincial round-robin games (Munster 10 & Leinster 15), with six teams (three from each province) advancing to the AIC KO from 'unbalanced' groups.
My proposal has 25 inter-group games (5v5), with six teams (could have 'more than three' from either province) advancing from groups, expected to be 'balanced' . The 25 games, include 8 Prov KO, 4 other intra-province & 13 cross-province ties. The latter include mouthwatering matchups, with Kilkenny and Galway opposing Munster teams.
In their 5-game schedule, a Prov Finalist would play 2-3 Prov KO games and 3-2 cross/ mixed-province ties.
Given Prov Finals are embedded in the inter-group schedule, all teams could play for AIC KO berths concurrently on the final inter-group weekend (June 6/7). If the AI Finals could be 'flipped' (football first) and played on either side of the August Bank Holiday weekend, inter-group play could be extended to June 20/21 (with AIC KO QFs, SFs & Final played on July 5, 19 & Aug 9, respectively).
Or, alternatively (my preferred option):
OPTION TWO
- Target 'growing the game' (more 'Kildares')
- Consider 'Lein KO 9' (& Muns KO 5) instead
- Lein splits to a 'quartet & quintet'
- Merge 'Lein quartet & Muns trio' to AIC Group A
- Schedule '7v7' (reduce NHL, if necessary)
- One relegated/McDonagh Cup Champ promoted
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3453 - 11/06/2026 15:37:17
2679013
Link
0
|
|
Replying To omahant: "How about this:
As 'growing the game' is the goal, my preference is "Option Two", but I start with "Option One" for ease of presentation.
All teams play mixed-province, inter-group ties, encompassing all Prov 'KO ties', prior to AIC KO:
TWO OPTIONS
OPTION ONE
- Munster KO 5 & Leinster KO 5
- AIC with two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Groups 'formed', not drawn
- Muns QF loser to Group A, winner to B
- SF opponent of Muns QF winner to A
- Muns Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Muns SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Muns trio in A & pair in B
- Lein QF winner to Group A, loser to B
- SF opponent of Lein QF winner to B
- Lein Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Lein SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Lein pair in A & trio in B
- Merge to form two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Each team completes a 5-game inter-group
schedule, including all their Prov KO ties (1-3)
- Prov KO is 'winner on the day' (1 point each, if
drawn at full time)
- Top 6 advance to AIC KO from a combined 10-
team table
- Top 2 of 6 earn QF byes (not necessarily Prov
Champs)
- AIC KO targets 'intra-group ties' to avoid
repeat pairings
- QFs could be 3v6 & 4v5 (avoid repeat pairings,
if possible)
SFs could have 'seed 1 v lowest QF seed winner'
SCHEDULE:
- Apr 18/19: Muns QF & Lein QF
- Apr 25/26: 4 Prov SFs & 1 'Cross-Prov' tie (QF
losers); then 'form' Groups A & B
- May 2/3: Bye Week
- May 9/10: 3 'Cross-Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties
- May 16/17: 5 'Cross-Prov' ties
- May 23/24: Bye Week
- May 30/31: 1 'Cross- Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties (bye week for Prov
Finalists)
- June 6/7: 2 Prov Finals & 3 'Cross-Prov' ties
Currently, there are 25 Provincial round-robin games (Munster 10 & Leinster 15), with six teams (three from each province) advancing to the AIC KO from 'unbalanced' groups.
My proposal has 25 inter-group games (5v5), with six teams (could have 'more than three' from either province) advancing from groups, expected to be 'balanced' . The 25 games, include 8 Prov KO, 4 other intra-province & 13 cross-province ties. The latter include mouthwatering matchups, with Kilkenny and Galway opposing Munster teams.
In their 5-game schedule, a Prov Finalist would play 2-3 Prov KO games and 3-2 cross/ mixed-province ties.
Given Prov Finals are embedded in the inter-group schedule, all teams could play for AIC KO berths concurrently on the final inter-group weekend (June 6/7). If the AI Finals could be 'flipped' (football first) and played on either side of the August Bank Holiday weekend, inter-group play could be extended to June 20/21 (with AIC KO QFs, SFs & Final played on July 5, 19 & Aug 9, respectively).
Or, alternatively (my preferred option):
OPTION TWO
- Target 'growing the game' (more 'Kildares')
- Consider 'Lein KO 9' (& Muns KO 5) instead
- Lein splits to a 'quartet & quintet'
- Merge 'Lein quartet & Muns trio' to AIC Group A
- Schedule '7v7' (reduce NHL, if necessary)
- One relegated/McDonagh Cup Champ promoted" I'll have a headache trying to get my head around all that!!
richiepmurphy (Kilkenny) - Posts: 106 - 11/06/2026 17:47:18
2679030
Link
0
|