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Off Season Discussions Thread

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "We will have to see how it goes Hermit, I've been a big defender of Moran over the years and I do think he has been much better for Kerry than many give him credit for, but I wonder is it better to be bringing him in for the final 25 minutes now, or is he still the best option to start? Barry is an excellent #2 midfielder, a bit injury prone unfortunately for him, but I really like him when he is fit and going well.

I like all the guys in the half back line individually but as a unit they lack physicality for me, especially if White and Murphy are both starting. Bringing one of Morley or Tom O'Sullivan out would be ideal but I don't think it's an option unless they find other guys for the full back line. Tom isn't a big man but he is as tough as they come, would love to see him in the half back line where he plays his best football.

It's about putting all the pieces together and playing to your strengths as HB says, hopefully they figure it out and get back to where they want to be."
We missed Barry against Cork. He is a nailed on starter for me. He has limitations but he is a strong presence as well as mobile. One thing about him is you could never say his man beat him.

I wouldn't really have the same concerns about White and Murphy in the half back line together. Murphy is as aggressive as anyone in the country while White has got stronger and is about 6 foot. If Morley is chosen at 6, Gavin Crowley is a great option at wing back as well especially if the team we're playing have a very physical half forward line like Donegal.

I'd disagree on Tom O'Sullivan. I think he's better in the full back line. His ability to completely blot out his opponent is remarkable and shouldn't be underestimated. For me he's the best corner back in the country along with McMenamin from Donegal. He's fantastic at attacking but he can still do that to an extent from corner back. Him and Murphy bin the same half back line would be lacking in height way too much for me and both are undroppable.

The key thing for Peter Keane is getting the balance right between attack and defence. If we can hold our own defensively in a way that allows our attack to make hay then we're in a great position. It's about picking 3 out and out inside forwards along with at least 2 of our half forward line being regular scorers or creators. When we do have to bring men back we need to leave at the very least 2 forwards up to allow us attack quickly which we haven't been going in most games. I believe we can put together a back six that are all very very good individually combine that with 8-15 tackling well and we're not doing too badly at all. I really hope we see us at our best going forward this year because we have the ability to destroy teams.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 17/04/2021 20:46:29    2337585

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I think back to the Dublin game in Tralee where Peter Crowley scored the winning point, that day Jack Barry started with Adrain. The third mid fielder that day was Gavin O'Brien with Moran off the bench. I'm not a fan of Moran and as you are all well aware I think he's best days are behind him. That day Moran came off the bench with ten go. If he has a role that in my option would be extent of it at the most.

For me it's Jack Barry with Adrain beside him and Diarmuid O'Connor on the wing at number ten.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5283 - 17/04/2021 20:55:50    2337588

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I'd be more worried about the tackling the other way, smaller & lighter backs are always going to be at a disadvantage trying to slow down runners or even just competing for a 50/50 ball against a bigger man. If you have too many of them in the team it can become a problem and something that your opponent absolutely will target. You have to work with what you have though as Hermit says."
Yeah good point Gerry although we ate not too bad in that department.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 17/04/2021 22:12:28    2337595

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Replying To Kerry15:  "We missed Barry against Cork. He is a nailed on starter for me. He has limitations but he is a strong presence as well as mobile. One thing about him is you could never say his man beat him.

I wouldn't really have the same concerns about White and Murphy in the half back line together. Murphy is as aggressive as anyone in the country while White has got stronger and is about 6 foot. If Morley is chosen at 6, Gavin Crowley is a great option at wing back as well especially if the team we're playing have a very physical half forward line like Donegal.

I'd disagree on Tom O'Sullivan. I think he's better in the full back line. His ability to completely blot out his opponent is remarkable and shouldn't be underestimated. For me he's the best corner back in the country along with McMenamin from Donegal. He's fantastic at attacking but he can still do that to an extent from corner back. Him and Murphy bin the same half back line would be lacking in height way too much for me and both are undroppable.

The key thing for Peter Keane is getting the balance right between attack and defence. If we can hold our own defensively in a way that allows our attack to make hay then we're in a great position. It's about picking 3 out and out inside forwards along with at least 2 of our half forward line being regular scorers or creators. When we do have to bring men back we need to leave at the very least 2 forwards up to allow us attack quickly which we haven't been going in most games. I believe we can put together a back six that are all very very good individually combine that with 8-15 tackling well and we're not doing too badly at all. I really hope we see us at our best going forward this year because we have the ability to destroy teams."
I like Tom Sullivan but I do think he might give us more in the half line. On Barry yes he has it all and very underrated. I think Barry has much more in him though if he had more confidence. He has the power to drive through oppositions

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 17/04/2021 22:16:27    2337596

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Replying To Kerry15:  "We missed Barry against Cork. He is a nailed on starter for me. He has limitations but he is a strong presence as well as mobile. One thing about him is you could never say his man beat him.

I wouldn't really have the same concerns about White and Murphy in the half back line together. Murphy is as aggressive as anyone in the country while White has got stronger and is about 6 foot. If Morley is chosen at 6, Gavin Crowley is a great option at wing back as well especially if the team we're playing have a very physical half forward line like Donegal.

I'd disagree on Tom O'Sullivan. I think he's better in the full back line. His ability to completely blot out his opponent is remarkable and shouldn't be underestimated. For me he's the best corner back in the country along with McMenamin from Donegal. He's fantastic at attacking but he can still do that to an extent from corner back. Him and Murphy bin the same half back line would be lacking in height way too much for me and both are undroppable.

The key thing for Peter Keane is getting the balance right between attack and defence. If we can hold our own defensively in a way that allows our attack to make hay then we're in a great position. It's about picking 3 out and out inside forwards along with at least 2 of our half forward line being regular scorers or creators. When we do have to bring men back we need to leave at the very least 2 forwards up to allow us attack quickly which we haven't been going in most games. I believe we can put together a back six that are all very very good individually combine that with 8-15 tackling well and we're not doing too badly at all. I really hope we see us at our best going forward this year because we have the ability to destroy teams."
We don't disagree on Tom O'Sullivan at all, I think he has to stay in the full back line because the value of taking away your opponents best corner forward is huge, indeed I have argued that point on here before when others wanted him moved to half back. In a perfect world where you have two other corners he is a #7 though, where his exceptional ability as both a defender and attacker can be best put to use.

I don't doubt Murphy's aggressiveness or will to win, just his size, it's always going to be an issue when he finds himself marking a Kilkenny or a Howard, albeit he is an unbelievable competitor and is rarely beaten. White has huge potential, definitely did need to get stronger, doesn't strike me as a natural defender but he can improve and be one of the best in the game I have no doubt. I really hope he does.

I still don't know who the best option is at Centre Back, Crowley, Sherwood, Morley?

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2056 - 18/04/2021 02:27:40    2337611

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Replying To Kerry15:  "We missed Barry against Cork. He is a nailed on starter for me. He has limitations but he is a strong presence as well as mobile. One thing about him is you could never say his man beat him.

I wouldn't really have the same concerns about White and Murphy in the half back line together. Murphy is as aggressive as anyone in the country while White has got stronger and is about 6 foot. If Morley is chosen at 6, Gavin Crowley is a great option at wing back as well especially if the team we're playing have a very physical half forward line like Donegal.

I'd disagree on Tom O'Sullivan. I think he's better in the full back line. His ability to completely blot out his opponent is remarkable and shouldn't be underestimated. For me he's the best corner back in the country along with McMenamin from Donegal. He's fantastic at attacking but he can still do that to an extent from corner back. Him and Murphy bin the same half back line would be lacking in height way too much for me and both are undroppable.

The key thing for Peter Keane is getting the balance right between attack and defence. If we can hold our own defensively in a way that allows our attack to make hay then we're in a great position. It's about picking 3 out and out inside forwards along with at least 2 of our half forward line being regular scorers or creators. When we do have to bring men back we need to leave at the very least 2 forwards up to allow us attack quickly which we haven't been going in most games. I believe we can put together a back six that are all very very good individually combine that with 8-15 tackling well and we're not doing too badly at all. I really hope we see us at our best going forward this year because we have the ability to destroy teams."
I'd agree with you 15. I think if Kerry get the balance right, they'd able to take most teams. However, as regards Dublin, and I do think Kerry can beat them, ye'll need to have yer best 20 sorted. It's off the bench in the last 15 minutes of so, that the Dubs will be beaten. They have to be matched in that regard, as that's where they have won their tight games over the past decade or so.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 401 - 18/04/2021 04:53:49    2337612

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "We don't disagree on Tom O'Sullivan at all, I think he has to stay in the full back line because the value of taking away your opponents best corner forward is huge, indeed I have argued that point on here before when others wanted him moved to half back. In a perfect world where you have two other corners he is a #7 though, where his exceptional ability as both a defender and attacker can be best put to use.

I don't doubt Murphy's aggressiveness or will to win, just his size, it's always going to be an issue when he finds himself marking a Kilkenny or a Howard, albeit he is an unbelievable competitor and is rarely beaten. White has huge potential, definitely did need to get stronger, doesn't strike me as a natural defender but he can improve and be one of the best in the game I have no doubt. I really hope he does.

I still don't know who the best option is at Centre Back, Crowley, Sherwood, Morley?"
Whatever combination we go for at 3 and 6 from Morley, Gavin Crowley and Sherwood I think we will have a good axis. For me Morley obviously starts but it's about deciding whether it's at 3 or 6 and whether Sherwood at 3 or Crowley at 6 is better will go a long way to deciding that. Morley and Crowley is what we had in 2019 and I thought it worked well. That's the option I have always been in favour of but I'm beginning to like the other option more and more. Sherwood has been outstanding at full back for East Kerry, doing great jobs on the best forwards in Kerry no matter what their play style or strengths. Morley of course originally was a top class 6. While man marking is not the sole responsibility of the positions it is very important. Our centre back will have to deal with the likes of Con O'Callaghan and Conor McKenna while our full back will be tasked with Kilkenny, McShane and others. How our options will match up against these must be taken into account. It's very important to get it right.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 18/04/2021 11:59:20    2337659

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Replying To Kerry15:  "Whatever combination we go for at 3 and 6 from Morley, Gavin Crowley and Sherwood I think we will have a good axis. For me Morley obviously starts but it's about deciding whether it's at 3 or 6 and whether Sherwood at 3 or Crowley at 6 is better will go a long way to deciding that. Morley and Crowley is what we had in 2019 and I thought it worked well. That's the option I have always been in favour of but I'm beginning to like the other option more and more. Sherwood has been outstanding at full back for East Kerry, doing great jobs on the best forwards in Kerry no matter what their play style or strengths. Morley of course originally was a top class 6. While man marking is not the sole responsibility of the positions it is very important. Our centre back will have to deal with the likes of Con O'Callaghan and Conor McKenna while our full back will be tasked with Kilkenny, McShane and others. How our options will match up against these must be taken into account. It's very important to get it right."
We have to get a fairly settled team for munster championship and not worrying about Tyrone or Dublin. Dublin should nt even enter our minds as if we win munster then it's ulster opposition we face. Also Cork will be very dangerous again this year as the felt they got no credit for last year's victory. It was all about Kerry taking eye of the ball and so on and when Tipp beat Cork they were given no credit at all. First things first and instead of worrying too much about the opposition.Let them worry about us. I think most of us agree here than Ryan will be keeper and Tom Sullivan Paul Murphy and Morley are nailed on starters in the backs. The other 3 positions are there to be filled. I for one think Sherwood deserves a slot and I'd try him full back and as was said before on here let him rotate with Morley at CB. For me a backline of Graham Sullivan. Sherwood Tom Sullivan. Murphy Morley and either White or Ó Beaglaoi.. I don't have a problem with Jason Foley getting another chance either.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 18/04/2021 13:32:35    2337678

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "We have to get a fairly settled team for munster championship and not worrying about Tyrone or Dublin. Dublin should nt even enter our minds as if we win munster then it's ulster opposition we face. Also Cork will be very dangerous again this year as the felt they got no credit for last year's victory. It was all about Kerry taking eye of the ball and so on and when Tipp beat Cork they were given no credit at all. First things first and instead of worrying too much about the opposition.Let them worry about us. I think most of us agree here than Ryan will be keeper and Tom Sullivan Paul Murphy and Morley are nailed on starters in the backs. The other 3 positions are there to be filled. I for one think Sherwood deserves a slot and I'd try him full back and as was said before on here let him rotate with Morley at CB. For me a backline of Graham Sullivan. Sherwood Tom Sullivan. Murphy Morley and either White or Ó Beaglaoi.. I don't have a problem with Jason Foley getting another chance either."
Yes, that's the six back I had picked in my team as well.

Has anyone heard a mention of "water breaks" I think they ruined the games last year. Considering Soccer answer rugby can go 45 and 40 minutes respectively, I fail to see the necessity to return to the the "four quarters" game.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5283 - 18/04/2021 16:34:52    2337705

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "We have to get a fairly settled team for munster championship and not worrying about Tyrone or Dublin. Dublin should nt even enter our minds as if we win munster then it's ulster opposition we face. Also Cork will be very dangerous again this year as the felt they got no credit for last year's victory. It was all about Kerry taking eye of the ball and so on and when Tipp beat Cork they were given no credit at all. First things first and instead of worrying too much about the opposition.Let them worry about us. I think most of us agree here than Ryan will be keeper and Tom Sullivan Paul Murphy and Morley are nailed on starters in the backs. The other 3 positions are there to be filled. I for one think Sherwood deserves a slot and I'd try him full back and as was said before on here let him rotate with Morley at CB. For me a backline of Graham Sullivan. Sherwood Tom Sullivan. Murphy Morley and either White or Ó Beaglaoi.. I don't have a problem with Jason Foley getting another chance either."
This year is knock out so no second chances, in this regard we have take it one game at a time and not be looking beyond the next game, this cost us last year. Secondly we will also have championship games again in Killarney, we have not lost a C'ship game there since 1995. This record have to be kept in tact. Your home ground should be a fortress. You have to have the opposing or visiting teams thinking of the history and how hard it is to get a victory there as well as the Kerry players, and teams itself.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5283 - 18/04/2021 16:39:29    2337706

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "Yes, that's the six back I had picked in my team as well.

Has anyone heard a mention of "water breaks" I think they ruined the games last year. Considering Soccer answer rugby can go 45 and 40 minutes respectively, I fail to see the necessity to return to the the "four quarters" game."
Ya they should do away with the water break horse, there is no need for it, you pre hydrate before the throw in and again at half time, I do a fair of road and cross country running all my life and I've ran in all conditions and I pre hydrate before a run and slowly rehydrate again afterwards.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12931 - 18/04/2021 18:38:58    2337731

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I think the water break is gone. Championship draw tomorrow morning. Cork and Tipp have bye into semis so we ve to play one of Clare Limerick or Waterford in 1st round. Kerry should win 1st round so it gives us an important run out before munster semi v Tipp or Cork.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 18/04/2021 19:32:46    2337741

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I hope we get Clare and then Tipp in the semi. As difficult as possible is what we want to get us ready for probably Cork in the final and then if we win, the Ulster winners. Playing Waterford would be no good and it'd be difficult to know how to approach it.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 18/04/2021 20:14:01    2337749

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Also would prefer to not meet Cork until the final. It'd be better to steadily build up the difficulty.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 18/04/2021 20:15:05    2337750

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I think the water break is gone. Championship draw tomorrow morning. Cork and Tipp have bye into semis so we ve to play one of Clare Limerick or Waterford in 1st round. Kerry should win 1st round so it gives us an important run out before munster semi v Tipp or Cork."
I agree, i think playing a 1/4 final is imperative in such a condensed season. Do you know what half bothers me. Cork are not a bad team and beat us last year regardless of how late. Over the five and a row minor wins, Cork seriously pushed us most years and were not far off us.

Everyone is saying at Cork "caught" us and presume we will prevail automatically this year.

It's this attitude that cost us last year. I'm taking nothing for granted, the madness of knockout is everything is on the day and anything can happen

One game at a time lads, no looking beyond the 70 minutes.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5283 - 18/04/2021 20:17:20    2337751

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Replying To Kerry15:  "I hope we get Clare and then Tipp in the semi. As difficult as possible is what we want to get us ready for probably Cork in the final and then if we win, the Ulster winners. Playing Waterford would be no good and it'd be difficult to know how to approach it."
I was thinking the same thing kerry15, if we get Clare we'll have them in killarney as we last played them on the 1st of June 2019 in Ennis, if we get past them and into a semifinal against Tipp I think that would be in Thurles and of course if we meet the neighbours in the final that would be in killarney, that would be a great build up provided we win those games and don't pick up any injuries or suspensions.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12931 - 18/04/2021 21:01:07    2337761

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "I agree, i think playing a 1/4 final is imperative in such a condensed season. Do you know what half bothers me. Cork are not a bad team and beat us last year regardless of how late. Over the five and a row minor wins, Cork seriously pushed us most years and were not far off us.

Everyone is saying at Cork "caught" us and presume we will prevail automatically this year.

It's this attitude that cost us last year. I'm taking nothing for granted, the madness of knockout is everything is on the day and anything can happen

One game at a time lads, no looking beyond the 70 minutes."
Agree 100%Horsebox.It was probably Cork that got caught v Tipp. On our minors I have posted before that while our 5 in a row seemed to be won easy enough:in munster Cork gave us a few savage close battles. Also we beat Cork in a semi final which meant they had no back door. If they had who knows. I mean when Kerry were going for 6 in a row we beat Cork in 1st round but they had backdoor and we beat them again in munster final but who wins all ireland only Cork. Also I'm delighted we have a quarter final. More games the better. One game at a time and play to our strengths.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 18/04/2021 22:22:37    2337779

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Perfect draw, Clare, then potentially Tipp and get over that and a final against Cork.

It's just what you need, we will be playing the three other strongest teams and every match will be a step up in quality f opponents until (hopefully) we can get our revenge on the Corkonians in Killarney.

It's great to have the summer coming into view and matches to be looking forward to!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6110 - 19/04/2021 09:08:21    2337802

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Perfect draw, Clare, then potentially Tipp and get over that and a final against Cork.

It's just what you need, we will be playing the three other strongest teams and every match will be a step up in quality f opponents until (hopefully) we can get our revenge on the Corkonians in Killarney.

It's great to have the summer coming into view and matches to be looking forward to!"
Totally agree Hermit Best possible Football draw... Clare in Killarney, Tipp in Thurles and then Hopefully Cork in Killarney... we won't be going in cold this year.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5283 - 19/04/2021 09:32:40    2337803

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A good draw for Kerry. Should bring them on no end

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 19/04/2021 09:41:32    2337807

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