Kerry Forum

Off Season Discussions Thread

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I suppose Jack wouldn't be able to leave dublin for Kerry training under current Covid restrictions, I suppose these restriction will have an even greater effect on teams like Mayo."
Jack has nt been called into Kerry panel to my knowledge.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 15/04/2021 13:36:44    2337297

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Remember if you cast your mind back to 2003/04 was Galvin the player he would become, was Declan, was Marc or Donaghy??"
A rather obvious comment to make. The same could be said even of the greatest of them all, Jack O'Shea when he came onto the scene in the league of 1976 and then during 1977. Indeed, it can be said that even in '78 and '79, he still wasn't the player that he became from 1980-86.

It's the same with the vast majority of inter-county players; almost none are the finished article from day one. It's a no-brainer!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 401 - 15/04/2021 13:39:32    2337298

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Replying To TheHermit:  "On the star quality point Gerry, I think that it's more of a case of a lot of players coming through onto the team have not been given the chance yet to show they have that kind of talent given their youth, the impact of the Covid breaks etc.

I believe there are several players in this panel who in the next 3-4 years of development will evolve into real quality. Gavin White should be a prime example of this in my opinion."
Totally agree. When this team wins their first All Ireland a lot of them will be talked about as the best in the country. I wouldn't say we're lacking in "star quality".

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 15/04/2021 16:11:37    2337314

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Jack has nt been called into Kerry panel to my knowledge."
Definitely worth a look and exposure to the Senior panel. Dan O'Donoghue the same. Hard to understand why they're not on there. I make out we've only 11 backs on the panel which isn't even enough for an A vs B game when everyone is injury free.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 15/04/2021 16:14:03    2337315

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Replying To Kerry15:  "Definitely worth a look and exposure to the Senior panel. Dan O'Donoghue the same. Hard to understand why they're not on there. I make out we've only 11 backs on the panel which isn't even enough for an A vs B game when everyone is injury free."
Brian Leonard a defender and Eddie Horan is versatile. Played CB for minors. Foley Morley Tom Sullivan Murphy Gavin and Pete Crowley White Sherwood G. O Sullivan B. O Beaglaoi. Yeah 11 or 12 including Horan Room for Dan ó Donoghue or Dan Mccarthy or Brian Maguire

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 15/04/2021 17:51:32    2337328

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Replying To Kerry15:  "Totally agree. When this team wins their first All Ireland a lot of them will be talked about as the best in the country. I wouldn't say we're lacking in "star quality"."
Was not trying to sleight any of the players on the panel. I agree there are several lads that can get there, let's hope this is the year they take that step. Lads like Foley, White, Barry, Crowley should be entering their prime now.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2056 - 15/04/2021 18:50:58    2337331

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Was not trying to sleight any of the players on the panel. I agree there are several lads that can get there, let's hope this is the year they take that step. Lads like Foley, White, Barry, Crowley should be entering their prime now."
Oh I know that, it wasn't a bad comment in that way at all. I can see where you're coming from a bit. Dublin have Kilkenny, Fenton, O'Callaghan, Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimons and Howard. Our comparitive 7 would probably be Clifford, O'Shea, Geaney, O'Brien, Tom O'Sullivan, Morley and Murphy. I don't think there's too much of a gap there really.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 15/04/2021 20:18:31    2337342

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Brian Leonard a defender and Eddie Horan is versatile. Played CB for minors. Foley Morley Tom Sullivan Murphy Gavin and Pete Crowley White Sherwood G. O Sullivan B. O Beaglaoi. Yeah 11 or 12 including Horan Room for Dan ó Donoghue or Dan Mccarthy or Brian Maguire"
Eddie Horan is a forward only. He has been moved around before but to questionable success. He won't be playing in the backs for the Kerry Seniors that I'm sure of. Hopefully Dan McCarthy will be back from his cruciate and be able to play a prominent role for the u20s.

Kerry15 (Kerry) - Posts: 766 - 15/04/2021 20:21:28    2337343

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Replying To Kerry15:  "Oh I know that, it wasn't a bad comment in that way at all. I can see where you're coming from a bit. Dublin have Kilkenny, Fenton, O'Callaghan, Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimons and Howard. Our comparitive 7 would probably be Clifford, O'Shea, Geaney, O'Brien, Tom O'Sullivan, Morley and Murphy. I don't think there's too much of a gap there really."
The only difference there is that two of the Dub top players Mccarthy and Fenton are midfield. However our forwards are top notch. If our management play to our strengths imo our forward line might be better than Dublin's especially with Mannion gone but they definately away stronger midfield. I would give Dublin an edge in the backs also. I think Tyrone s forwards look very stró g this year with McShane back. McKenna Matie Donnolly. Donegal also with McNialkais back look like an exciting prospect.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 15/04/2021 21:13:16    2337348

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Replying To Kerry15:  "Eddie Horan is a forward only. He has been moved around before but to questionable success. He won't be playing in the backs for the Kerry Seniors that I'm sure of. Hopefully Dan McCarthy will be back from his cruciate and be able to play a prominent role for the u20s."
I would agree Horan was brought into panel as a forward but can play anywhere even midfield. I like him. He s strong and able and a good addition.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 15/04/2021 21:46:31    2337357

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Replying To Kerry15:  "Oh I know that, it wasn't a bad comment in that way at all. I can see where you're coming from a bit. Dublin have Kilkenny, Fenton, O'Callaghan, Cluxton, McCarthy, Fitzsimons and Howard. Our comparitive 7 would probably be Clifford, O'Shea, Geaney, O'Brien, Tom O'Sullivan, Morley and Murphy. I don't think there's too much of a gap there really."
My main worry would be the middle of the field and half back line. You need to at least break even there if you want to win a game of football. I'm not convinced by our group as a whole in that area of the field but there are definitely lads with potential there that can step up as previously mentioned.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2056 - 15/04/2021 22:53:31    2337367

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "My main worry would be the middle of the field and half back line. You need to at least break even there if you want to win a game of football. I'm not convinced by our group as a whole in that area of the field but there are definitely lads with potential there that can step up as previously mentioned."
I'm going to comment only if Kerry were playing Dublin. The only way I see of pulling one over on the Dubs is to go all-out attacking, and let them do the same. Let them come at your, but crucially man deep defence ...don't allow goals to go in; that means letting Kilkenny, Con and Rock kick their points, and they will anyway. Just, don't be drawn in trying to prevent Con or so from kicking and in the effort an opening for a goal is created. That has happened many times; when the Dubs weren't really going for a goal but a goal was what resulted. Intelligent defending= sacrifice the point to prevent any goal chance occurring.

Secondly, and importantly, and this is where Kerry have the aces, attack with venom. When you've natural footballers like DC, PC , SOS and the Spillanes, when a goal chance crops up, they should be able to take it.

In other words, don't try and force the game against the Dubs. Games happen, as they're being played, and no manager or team can account for every eventuality before a game.

But this is only when ye'd be up against Dublin.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 401 - 16/04/2021 11:26:20    2337382

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I'm going to comment only if Kerry were playing Dublin. The only way I see of pulling one over on the Dubs is to go all-out attacking, and let them do the same. Let them come at your, but crucially man deep defence ...don't allow goals to go in; that means letting Kilkenny, Con and Rock kick their points, and they will anyway. Just, don't be drawn in trying to prevent Con or so from kicking and in the effort an opening for a goal is created. That has happened many times; when the Dubs weren't really going for a goal but a goal was what resulted. Intelligent defending= sacrifice the point to prevent any goal chance occurring.

Secondly, and importantly, and this is where Kerry have the aces, attack with venom. When you've natural footballers like DC, PC , SOS and the Spillanes, when a goal chance crops up, they should be able to take it.

In other words, don't try and force the game against the Dubs. Games happen, as they're being played, and no manager or team can account for every eventuality before a game.

But this is only when ye'd be up against Dublin."
I agree totally forever. Kerry have brilliant forwards so let's use them to their full potential. Playing defensively against a hardened Dublin team is death by a thousand cuts.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 16/04/2021 12:20:40    2337387

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "My main worry would be the middle of the field and half back line. You need to at least break even there if you want to win a game of football. I'm not convinced by our group as a whole in that area of the field but there are definitely lads with potential there that can step up as previously mentioned."
I think the concerns around our midfield are a bit exaggerated. Moran in a top player, granted he is shoving on now and liable to do idiotic things. Barry is a fine player and I have confidence in DOC and some of the other options that will be putting their hands up.

The same with our backs, sure they are not perfect and we are liable to be cut open when ran at down the middle, but so is every team. All you need is parity in these two sectors and the forwards up front who can seriously hurt the opposition.

I believe we can do all the above, IF we play that our strenghts. In both the replay in 19 and against Cork last year we set out to contain and shut up shop instead of going for it.

If Keane goes down that road again than he will be packing his bags. I trust he has the intelligence to have seen the error of his ways,

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6110 - 16/04/2021 13:36:37    2337391

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Replying To TheHermit:  "I think the concerns around our midfield are a bit exaggerated. Moran in a top player, granted he is shoving on now and liable to do idiotic things. Barry is a fine player and I have confidence in DOC and some of the other options that will be putting their hands up.

The same with our backs, sure they are not perfect and we are liable to be cut open when ran at down the middle, but so is every team. All you need is parity in these two sectors and the forwards up front who can seriously hurt the opposition.

I believe we can do all the above, IF we play that our strenghts. In both the replay in 19 and against Cork last year we set out to contain and shut up shop instead of going for it.

If Keane goes down that road again than he will be packing his bags. I trust he has the intelligence to have seen the error of his ways,"
Fair point a hermit, but that refers to every team. You can build a team around four or five key players and devise a system were collectively as a unit the team is stronger due to the method of play as opposed to the players individually.

The example is the likes of Tyrone and Donegal. I'm not saying copy them and go defensive, i quote them as in they devised a particular system all players understood their role, bought into and had belief in it and carried it out successfully to reap the rewards.

PK has to plan to get the best out of players to fill the particular roles, often the best player is not the one best suited to a particular role. We need s few work horses to allow the more skilful player be in the right position at the right time.

On another note as there is no back door last year it was Munster vs Connacht and Ulster vs Leinster does that mean it's Munster vs Ulster and Connacht vs Leinster this year? I as as there is no logic or continuity these days.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5283 - 17/04/2021 02:45:46    2337470

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Replying To TheHermit:  "I think the concerns around our midfield are a bit exaggerated. Moran in a top player, granted he is shoving on now and liable to do idiotic things. Barry is a fine player and I have confidence in DOC and some of the other options that will be putting their hands up.

The same with our backs, sure they are not perfect and we are liable to be cut open when ran at down the middle, but so is every team. All you need is parity in these two sectors and the forwards up front who can seriously hurt the opposition.

I believe we can do all the above, IF we play that our strenghts. In both the replay in 19 and against Cork last year we set out to contain and shut up shop instead of going for it.

If Keane goes down that road again than he will be packing his bags. I trust he has the intelligence to have seen the error of his ways,"
We will have to see how it goes Hermit, I've been a big defender of Moran over the years and I do think he has been much better for Kerry than many give him credit for, but I wonder is it better to be bringing him in for the final 25 minutes now, or is he still the best option to start? Barry is an excellent #2 midfielder, a bit injury prone unfortunately for him, but I really like him when he is fit and going well.

I like all the guys in the half back line individually but as a unit they lack physicality for me, especially if White and Murphy are both starting. Bringing one of Morley or Tom O'Sullivan out would be ideal but I don't think it's an option unless they find other guys for the full back line. Tom isn't a big man but he is as tough as they come, would love to see him in the half back line where he plays his best football.

It's about putting all the pieces together and playing to your strengths as HB says, hopefully they figure it out and get back to where they want to be.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2056 - 17/04/2021 15:10:11    2337510

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "Fair point a hermit, but that refers to every team. You can build a team around four or five key players and devise a system were collectively as a unit the team is stronger due to the method of play as opposed to the players individually.

The example is the likes of Tyrone and Donegal. I'm not saying copy them and go defensive, i quote them as in they devised a particular system all players understood their role, bought into and had belief in it and carried it out successfully to reap the rewards.

PK has to plan to get the best out of players to fill the particular roles, often the best player is not the one best suited to a particular role. We need s few work horses to allow the more skilful player be in the right position at the right time.

On another note as there is no back door last year it was Munster vs Connacht and Ulster vs Leinster does that mean it's Munster vs Ulster and Connacht vs Leinster this year? I as as there is no logic or continuity these days."
Horse, my reading of it anyway is Munster vs Ulster and Connacht vs Leinster. There must be logic in it somewhere in HQ.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 401 - 17/04/2021 15:23:12    2337514

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "We will have to see how it goes Hermit, I've been a big defender of Moran over the years and I do think he has been much better for Kerry than many give him credit for, but I wonder is it better to be bringing him in for the final 25 minutes now, or is he still the best option to start? Barry is an excellent #2 midfielder, a bit injury prone unfortunately for him, but I really like him when he is fit and going well.

I like all the guys in the half back line individually but as a unit they lack physicality for me, especially if White and Murphy are both starting. Bringing one of Morley or Tom O'Sullivan out would be ideal but I don't think it's an option unless they find other guys for the full back line. Tom isn't a big man but he is as tough as they come, would love to see him in the half back line where he plays his best football.

It's about putting all the pieces together and playing to your strengths as HB says, hopefully they figure it out and get back to where they want to be."
I know a couple of posters on here have said they feel Moran would be best used still as a starter rather than utilizing him as someone to bring on to impact a game with 20 odd minutes to go.

I think I'd veer in that direction of thinking too.

I know what you mean about the lack of physicality Gerry and that's just the way it is.

Ultimately you've got a certain set of players and you need to create a style that suits the strengths of their collective. For me that collective strength is our attack so we need to play that way.

I never minded us conceding a goal here and there so long as ultimately we were outscoring the team in front of us.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6110 - 17/04/2021 17:28:45    2337537

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Moran can be still effective but not for the full game. On physicality. The biggest thing with physicality nowadays is people running into the tackle. Lighter players will be fine as long as they don't do that. Also I would like to see the forwards take on their opponents more.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1954 - 17/04/2021 20:03:28    2337577

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Moran can be still effective but not for the full game. On physicality. The biggest thing with physicality nowadays is people running into the tackle. Lighter players will be fine as long as they don't do that. Also I would like to see the forwards take on their opponents more."
I'd be more worried about the tackling the other way, smaller & lighter backs are always going to be at a disadvantage trying to slow down runners or even just competing for a 50/50 ball against a bigger man. If you have too many of them in the team it can become a problem and something that your opponent absolutely will target. You have to work with what you have though as Hermit says.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2056 - 17/04/2021 20:44:41    2337584

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