Donegal Forum

Double Standards

(Oldest Posts First)

Is it just me or is there complete double standards at play at the moment. Both Rory Kavanagh and Mc Guinness have both launched books which go through Donegal's meteoric rise and tactics in minute detail. In a way I have no problem with Kavanagh as he was a player, now retired and giving his version of the rise to the top. But with Mc Guinness he turfed Kevin Cassidy off the panel for the small part that he played in Niall Bogue's book. His banishment was for not remaining tight lipped with the group yet here Jim is now himself giving in minute detail what they were doing tactically for the past four years. Yet his former assistant manager who helped him to devise these tactics and most of that group of players are still there trying to win more titles for the county.
Yet their former manager gives a complete dossier on everything that they have been doing and quite probably will try to do next year. IMO this is a much greater letting down of a group that did everything for him over a four year period than what Cassidy so naively did three years ago. Does this not smack of complete double standards. Just because there is a book to be sold and huge profits to be made from the revelations and yet not a penny of it to his former players????

fionmaccumhaill (Donegal) - Posts: 21 - 02/11/2015 17:40:21    1803795

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Fion, I see where you are coming from with this argument but there are some crucial differences with what Kevin Cassidy did compared to Rory Kavanagh or JmcG. Cassidy was a member of the Donegal panel at the time he revealed the team tactics, surely he could have expected nothing esle but to be dropped from the panel. Jim McGuinness said if he had shown any remorse he would have taken him back, so he has no one to blame but himself.

I don't see how McGuinness could reveal tactics for the current squad as there is a new manager. If Rory is using the exact same tactics, then we really have something to be worried about. I am not a fan of these books, they just seem to always cause a stir and they aren't worth reading. It's a pity Jim and Rory had to fallout but such is life and maybe it was inevitable given they are both strong willed personalities.

JimTheLegend (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 02/11/2015 18:29:02    1803819

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Finn two years on and if Donegal have not got new tactics than what Jim had were in serious bother!
On the books Rory Gallagher has held his powder until now,which is a good thing,so maybe now we can get behind his efforts to better Donegal and if he does we'll be all the better for it and if he fails then we can start a new thread and it will be easily Titled!

PastandPresent (Donegal) - Posts: 345 - 02/11/2015 19:09:31    1803824

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02/11/2015 17:40:21
fionmaccumhaill
County: Donegal
Posts: 2

1803795


Is it just me or is there complete double standards at play at the moment. Both Rory Kavanagh and Mc Guinness have both launched books which go through Donegal's meteoric rise and tactics in minute detail. In a way I have no problem with Kavanagh as he was a player, now retired and giving his version of the rise to the top. But with Mc Guinness he turfed Kevin Cassidy off the panel for the small part that he played in Niall Bogue's book. His banishment was for not remaining tight lipped with the group yet here Jim is now himself giving in minute detail what they were doing tactically for the past four years.


I firmly believe neither should have released a book, not so much for tactical reasons, but more to avoid controversy and have Donegal in headlines for the wrong reasons again. This is a financial thing, personal financial gain for both. They should be pulled up on it, as I believe the timing was wrong.

As for Kevin Cassidy, he would have been back in the panel in 2012 had he took his oil. But he is an egotistical type of player, he believes he is more important that any manager Donegal ever had. This may partly be due to years of himself and some others running riot in the Donegal panel unchecked, which subsequently led to years of failure for the County. S

Yet his former assistant manager who helped him to devise these tactics and most of that group of players are still there trying to win more titles for the county.


If you wind the clock back to when Jim was in charge of Naomh Conaill, you will understand that the tactics where in existence long before Rory Gallagher came on the scene. Even Joe Brolly highlighted this in 2014, mentioning Jim winning the County Championship with Glenties probably freightened the County board off from giving him the job in his first two attempts for the job.

I am a loyal Jim McGuinness fan, however I do want to see Rory Gallagher do well with the team next season and for the future. At the end of the day, Donegal football is what is really Important here. The mentality is changing here in Donegal, you can feel that across the club scene and especially in our County team.

Between 1989 and 2006, we contested 9 Ulster finals in 18 years, appearing in 50% of Ulster finals during those 18 years, with a 22.2% success rate in those finals.

Between 2011 and 2014, we contested 5 Ulster finals in 5 years, appearing in 50% of Ulster finals during the 5 years, with 60% success rate in those.

Could anybody be really arsed allowing Donegal football to go backwards? I want us to kick on from here, and become the powerhouse of Ulster football we always had the potential to be. A successful County team puts a lot of focus on GAA within the County, for the right reasons and the benefit of all.

Shidoshi (Donegal) - Posts: 85 - 02/11/2015 21:24:42    1803876

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We'll just have to wait for Rory's book to get the full picture! ;-)

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7110 - 03/11/2015 09:30:31    1803910

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"Between 2011 and 2014, we contested 5 Ulster finals in 5 years, appearing in 50% of Ulster finals during the 5 years,"

So we contested 5 Ulster Finals in 4 years but only appeared in 50% of them...my heads spinning !

CharlieM (Donegal) - Posts: 427 - 03/11/2015 13:28:39    1804012

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CharlieM
County: Donegal
Posts: 395

1804012
"Between 2011 and 2014, we contested 5 Ulster finals in 5 years, appearing in 50% of Ulster finals during the 5 years,"

So we contested 5 Ulster Finals in 4 years but only appeared in 50% of them...my heads spinning !


Ah FFS Charlie, is it necessary to pick up on every wee spelling cock up. Making mistakes while Typing in a hurry, happens to us all.

This is how it should have looked - "Between 2011 and 2015, we contested 5 Ulster finals in 5 years ( 100% ), with a 60% success rate".

I was highlighting how between 1989 and 2006, we appeared in 9 Ulster finals in 18 years ( 50% ), and had a poor 22% success rate. While after the Jim McGuinness revolution, we appeared in 100% of Ulster finals and have a much improved 60% success rate.

Shidoshi (Donegal) - Posts: 85 - 03/11/2015 19:51:01    1804213

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I would not agree that double standards are at play here as there is a huge difference between an ex coach writing a book over a year after departing the scene and a team player colluding in secret with a journalist behind the backs of team mates and management, especially after agreeing on a pact not to divulge any detail to the media.
On the circumstances leading to Cassidy leaving the panel there are four questions that remain unanswered.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 367 - 03/11/2015 22:05:55    1804260

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It looks like the argument between Jim and Rory boils down to this, Rory says he resigned and Jim says he sacked him. Does it really matter?

JimTheLegend (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 04/11/2015 13:32:13    1804365

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Curlew66
County: Roscommon
Posts: 88

1804260
I would not agree that double standards are at play here as there is a huge difference between an ex coach writing a book over a year after departing the scene and a team player colluding in secret with a journalist behind the backs of team mates and management, especially after agreeing on a pact not to divulge any detail to the media.
On the circumstances leading to Cassidy leaving the panel there are four questions that remain unanswered.


What are the four questions?

I broadly agree with what your saying about it being different for an ex manager or ex player, than a current player who took the oath.

But I suppose with the majority of players are still in the squad, and the management team he supposedly fired or who quit now managing the team. It makes things awkward, especially as it brings up old fall outs and could potentially distract the current management and players.

Shidoshi (Donegal) - Posts: 85 - 05/11/2015 17:52:20    1804752

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Thank you Shidoshi,
Have tried without success to post my questions, will try and post one at a time.

1. Why was JMcG one of the last to know that one of his players was contributing to this book when other Ulster county managers (some of a higher profile than Jim at the time) were apparently kept in the picture by player/journalist?

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 367 - 06/11/2015 21:03:18    1805062

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Curlew66
County: Roscommon
Posts: 89

1805062
Thank you Shidoshi,
Have tried without success to post my questions, will try and post one at a time.

1. Why was JMcG one of the last to know that one of his players was contributing to this book when other Ulster county managers (some of a higher profile than Jim at the time) were apparently kept in the picture by player/journalist?


Other managers being kept in the loop was down to their players asking or telling them about it in advance and possibly getting the ok or clearance. I believe yer man Bogue contacted the players Individually about participating, and clearing it with their respective managers was for them to each sort out Individually.

To paint a picture of how it was In the case of Donegal towards the end of 2010/2011, Jim McGuinness was bringing in new training methods, both physical and mental training which would give Donegal an edge moving forward. He wanted all players to buy into this, and wanted all players to commit and sign a non-disclosure form regarding training methods and tactics. Why? Because he felt this Information gave or would give Donegal a competitive edge over their rivals, and was best kept secret.

Now in the years prior to 2011, Donegal had acquired a reputation as the party boys of the GAA. An unruly bunch, who lacked discipline, cohesion and the will to harness what looked like some fantastic footballers from an outside view. Kevin Cassidy was key part of that era, and unfortunately some characteristics such as lack of respect for authority where engrained into his psyche. This is not my take on Kevin, he himself has mentioned in various Gaelic Life articles and other Interviews various things that went on down the year, like getting dropped by Brian McIver and witnessing team revolts against other Managers.

McGuinness operated a system where all players young and old are equal, and must treat each other as equals. Kevin was a former captain, and came from a background where the "Senior" or "Established" players always had a bit more room to deviate with managers and where maybe exempt from certain rules.

Shidoshi (Donegal) - Posts: 85 - 07/11/2015 17:15:26    1805175

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Not in agreement with details in the book about falling out. Training methods is another story, as they are his, so that is out of the remit of criticism. But if you put lads off the team, and then write about it, especially when one of them is at the helm and can do without this sort of publicity and scrutiny, then I have a problem.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 11/11/2015 13:27:25    1806396

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2. Did the journalist exercise a 'duty of care' to his source (the player). Getting him involved did deny him after all an opportunity to win a well deserved AI medal. Sure I've read articles in Gaelic Life by the player dismissing the 'piece of metal' as being of minor importance in the bigger scheme of things. One suspects his thoughts might change when he reflects after he is no longer involved in the game.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 367 - 13/11/2015 17:55:44    1807134

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not one bit of a double standard here ... youse were blessed to have jimmy and should be begging for his return

giveme30 (Dublin) - Posts: 63 - 17/11/2015 13:32:58    1807923

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