Leitrim Forum

Minor Championship Final

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I wouldnt agree that management should take all the blame in yesterdays game, but yes the likes of the u15 memebers should have got a run , who knows the difference they wud have made ? They were being bet in every position of the field for most of the game and still managed to draw? and coming from 11 points down to draw level is a very good sign of a team . gortletteragh/fenagh definitely were the better team on the day but i think they might have blown they're chances of taking the cup as for manachans they have a lot more to offer but need to play far better than yesterday on the day . it will be an interesting replay whenever itll be played . favourites next game gort/fenagh .

leitrimdbest (Leitrim) - Posts: 15 - 08/10/2012 17:22:09    1280105

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Jim why are you talking about the 80's and what it used to be like? That's in the past jim like the great gorvagh team,eslinbridge FC and selton hill cricket club..You can't keep pretending ye have them anymore jim:P

In case you didn't know eslin are a club on their own now!..their own crest,jerseys,facillities and players. I know ye would love to nab the beirnes off them but you have to understand eslin are a seperate club,seperate parish.

And enough of this mohill lark..Its manakans,manakans..If your unsure of this name or if you require any further informatiom on amalgamations contact your local club secretary. He/she will enlighten you as to how mergers work.It is proving very popular with more new clubs engaging in this practice.

The definition "An amalgamation is the joining of two or more clubs thereby increasing the teams chances of winning false titles Eg.of amalgamations are St.Manachans, Oughteragh gaels, Garadice gaels etc. This practice is usually seen as an easier entry to quick success but can prove costly.See below

Terms and conditions:"Town teams who wish to join this scheme must accept there will be no senior success during the amalgamation period set "

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 08/10/2012 17:46:25    1280120

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Well said fresherman!! and jim eslin did have underage teams up untill 2007

Leitrim12 (Leitrim) - Posts: 63 - 08/10/2012 17:54:20    1280123

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OUGHTERAUGH GALES are no longer amalgumated, ballinamore are standing on there own.

saintly (Leitrim) - Posts: 536 - 08/10/2012 19:49:41    1280206

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Ok..good for you ballinamoreman ye had d stck long enough!:P

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 08/10/2012 20:18:38    1280229

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Quit with your rubbish fresherman. Speaking with most football people in the county they see amalgamations as the way forward. There isn't even a 15 a side championship at U16 level this year. That is not good. Kerry senior championship is based on regional amalgamations and we dont see much wrong with their football. We should have amalgamations for all underage championships and only allow guys play in their age group. By that i mean we cant allow a lad who i just out of u12 grade play at u16 and right up the way. (Same should be for ladies football as last night i saw a 14 year old play in senior ladies final and was totally outclassed. Her time will come i have no doubt.) Hopefully we can soon move forward as a county and totally restructure our underage set up. Id much rather see our young lads challenging for Tedd Webb and Connaught Minor titles than winning 9-a-side rubbish. Please folks take off the blinkers and look at the bigger picture.

badsilage (Leitrim) - Posts: 149 - 09/10/2012 09:49:13    1280332

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Bad silage, more like bad eyesight.You misread my post. By all means its necessary for small parishes like aughawillan and drumreilly to amalgamate. But town teams such as mohill shouldn't be joining up if they have 20 plus young lads able to kick a ball around the place.

And do you know what is not good..making passing points for sake of filling out a post! Underage Restructuring?Explain.. I think you'll find that there is great work being done now from U14 up with the professional attitude that our new young coaches have brought to the table. I have no doubt with the structures now in place we have as good a chance as any county of tedd webb and minor success in the future and we are on the right road in that respect. The only restructuring that will be done next year is putting a limit on the number of clubs that ye can join up with!

It is as you say definitely not good that the u16 championship doesn't have a 15 a side grade this year. BUT you failed to say that YOURSELVES are the reason for this!.. It isn't due to teams lack of numbers as you passingly hinted. The only reason for the reduction is because alot of the teams didn't want to play your mighty amalgamation of mohill,eslin,cloone(aughavas maybe soon?)So refused to move up. with no teams willing we were forced to put it to 13 aside.

So I'm afraid your the one spreading b.s. And keep glossing over the fact ya have another team on the line.See how many of them will have stuck around when the neighbours are gone..

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 09/10/2012 14:03:09    1280516

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God help us. Of the starting minor team on Sunday St Manachans had 2 Eslin players. No Cloone player. After 14 minutes a cloone lad replaced an Eslin lad. Neither the Cloone lad nor the remaining Eslin lad made any impact. Cloone are not amalgamated with Mohill. Not now and will never be. And should Eslin be made to play 3 a side at minor ??? Chesty along with Joe and Jamie Stenson. That would really improve standards. There are none so blind a those who will not see !!!

badsilage (Leitrim) - Posts: 149 - 09/10/2012 15:54:41    1280602

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Why make an off topic claim with no grounds to do so?Can you not reply with a clear argument? I took you up on the U16 team that you wrongly reported on and have chosen to ignore. That team has 30 plus players! well they did have but a trend has already started with some young mohill lads giving it up having lost patience with management and not been given a chance. Is that good underage practice letting young lads down that early into their development? And what are you a philosopher now with your ill placed quotes!:P Come back to me when your ramblings hold some depth otherwise stick to the farming..

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 09/10/2012 18:17:28    1280728

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Not a farmer unfortunately. Havn't heard of any young lad leaving the panel. A lot of the younger lads have a full u14 championship behind them. So they wont lack in football. And anyway we are a bit like Kilkenny, our training games are often better than some of the games in the championship. We had to play 11 a side against Garadice last week. Would that be our fault ? I could quote philosophy to you some more but due to your lack of an education you would only get confused.

badsilage (Leitrim) - Posts: 149 - 09/10/2012 18:51:02    1280753

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I hate to have to lower myself to respond to badsilage/94allstar but the bigger picture you refer to is banishing weaker underage players to fit into an adults framework for how a game should be played. if 2 clubs have 15 players each and amalgamate that will mean at best 10 players between both clubs will see little or no football, and may give up on the game, Any young lad will be time enough playing 15 a side. We have to remember some youngsters reach their prime later than others (growth spurts and handling of the sudden changes) so the big picture is to keep as many playing football for as long as possible. Remember a 16 year old can play junior so he can have lots of 15 a side games with his club before leaving minor age group. Smaller sided games means more touches for every player, more touches means more skill development. This is not rocket science but for some people's intellect this maybe too much too soon.

bananapublican (Leitrim) - Posts: 868 - 09/10/2012 21:24:42    1280873

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Guuna set the facts straight ! St.Manchans An amalgamation of Mohill and Eslin , Mohill 22 players , Eslin 3/4 ! The two cloone lads are counted in the Mohill's 22 as they are registered Mohill players ! Now are ye going to try and tell young Eslin lads to go and play 3 or 4 aside ? didn't think so....

NoneOfThatCraic (Leitrim) - Posts: 28 - 09/10/2012 21:53:48    1280903

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Three points I'd like to raise here

Firstly, I've said it before on here that there could be a bit to be said for a regional minor league or championship i.e 2-3 clubs together to make a team BUT ONLY if the current 9/13/15 a side format is regained also. Maybe a 9/11/13/15 League and A Regional Championship or vice versa. The reason being that its the best of both worlds. It gives players at clubs that regualrly field at 9 and 11 a side a chance to play 15 a side football but it also makes sure they play ball in the 9-11 aside format to make sure theyre not sitting on a bench at an important time in their football development. There's a rough idea of possible regional teams, which I think would work geographically at least. Hopefully some of the clubs take this to the county convention this year.

(Gortletteragh Bornacoola Cloone) (Mohill Eslin Fenagh) (Aughavas Drumreilly Carrigallen) (Annaduff Carrick Leitrim Gaels) (Kiltubrid Allen Gaels Ballinaglera) (Ballinamore Aughawillan Aughnasheelin) (Drumkeerin Dromahair Glenfarne) (Glencar-Manor, Melvin Gaels, St. Osnatt's)

Secondly, Far as I'm aware Fresherman has the right of it regarding U16 with no teams willing we were forced to put it to 13 aside. Not having a 15 a side U16 Championship is terribly detrimental as that grade feeds directly to get into the U17 and Minor County teams. No teams wanted to face Mohill at 15 a side, resulting in the situation we have now, at the very least there should be a Manachans A and B team in the U16 Championship. What Mohill are at is very counterproductive, even though they are trying to give lads from Cloone / Eslin a chance to play which is good.

Thirdly, What a Minor Final, great game from a neutral perspective. Fenagh-Gortletteragh turned the tables from their group meeting with Manachans, Manachans couldnt live with them in the first half. The high ball into young Beirne failed miserably and Fenagh-Gortletteragh took advantage with hard running and dominating the middle in the 1st half. The O Rourke lad is a great talent and still has a few years left in Minor from what I heard. Mohills best scores came as a result of moves started in the half back line and creating 1-2's and overlaps up the field. Cracking goal by the other Beirne lad in the forward line at the end. If Fenagh Gortletteragh had to be more accurate after halftime they could have won it and they hit the crossbar too. That said I think it was Fenagh - Gort's misses as opposed to Mohill's performance that lost them the game, Mohill had no answer for them up until the goals which they badly needed as htey were 11 points down. The Black and Red surely favourites for the replay which should be a good game. Looking forward to it.

dodgypass (Leitrim) - Posts: 53 - 10/10/2012 14:23:38    1281134

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Okay what started out as a tongue in cheek post has descended into a slagging match. I have calmed down and with bananapublican and dodypass offering sensible discussion I want to add a couple of points on the issue. No annoying you anymore bs.

There are pros and cons to amalgamations. More downsides however in my opinion..my thinking is:

Pros
As Dodgypass suggested there could be a compromise in the form of running a regional competition at minor level. There are potential benefits BUT only at minor and even then it could run into difficulties. I would suggest there is substance to the idea of staging a regional minor league. This format could be examined especially as a possible county minor dummy trial competition. It would be a useful tool to see who is up to the standard but only in minor and at the start of the year to coincide with county minor preparation.

This is where the smaller club players can get their taste of 15-aside if needed. It would provide a platform for the top minor players to play in, at as high a standard as is possible which would be beneficial in preparing them for county. This is what the thinking should be with a long term aim of this regional competition attaining a standard similar to schools "A" where the best 17,18 year olds would make up these regional teams. Despite what many of ye believe it is good to see two clubs like fenagh and gortletteragh who have strong minor players given a stage to showcase their talent. However, the regional competition should be the stage to do this.

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 11/10/2012 21:36:16    1281946

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But now for the hard truth

Cons
The miss- use of amalgamations can be seen in the current farcical set up that mohill find themselves in with their u14 and 16 teams. While on the surface mohills underage structure appears to be in a healthy state it masks a number of underlying problems. Before we even go into the fact there are at least 15 plus young lads out in the cold with little to no chance of developing there are other problems arising from amalgamating.

Badsillage, if you introduce amalgamations into the early age groups you breed a competitive focus and can get caught up with winning as the main objective. This unnecessary competitiveness eradicates the inclusion of the youngsters that are developing slower than others. There is a natural tendency to forget about these youngsters at the expense of winning underage medals that you talk about. If coaches cannot control this attitude kids will lose out and it is far harder when you are dealing with a mixture of three clubs with parents on your case to have their kid on. It is then likely you will see a number of these players restricted from developing to their potential as they compete against the increased numbers in the U14-U16 St.Manachans amalgamation.

And I would have to side with bananapublicans regarding skills development. I would argue with your belief in 15 a side being the be all and end all. IS it not reasonable to believe a youngster from glenfarne playing in a so called "rubbish" 9 a side game might actually benefit more from his/her football involvement(more touches,fitness,responsibility etc) than one of your bit part youngsters on your all conquering team? (Probably told to run out to the corner and stay there..)Im sure there were lots that were happy with the medal but would have been as equally pleased if more involved and given the chance to improve..

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 11/10/2012 21:38:45    1281948

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Noneofdcraic, 9 a-side and 11 is where the likes of the eslin and cloone players should be and they will benefit far more from this on their own. And I don't buy your numbers excuse. That is solely eslins own fault. I said it before that is down to lazy coaching(no coaching?) in the initial stages and maybe eslin are the culprits in the st.manachans situation as much as mohill themselves.The "lack of numbers" stick neednt be used when the work hasn't been done!When you see a tiny club like St.Osnetts with a smaller population than yourselves attempting to put structure in place you wonder why aren't eslin doing the same?For example St.Osnetts u14 team competes in 11 aside despite being the butt of all jokes in the leitrim club scene. It hasnt deterred the club mentors instead they are getting on with it, investing the time and effort with the youngsters when it would have been just as easy to jump in with Manorhamilton. St.Osnatts are trying.. Eslin are not and if ye keep relying on Mohill ye will not improve suffiently to the senior level that I'm sure the beirnes and Eslin have ambitions on reaching.

The advantages of the one club underage structure are clear to see with the obvious notion that underage success will translate into senior success. But even this is not always necessary for future senior success. A clear example of hidden underage work paying off can be seen in the new county champions melvin gaels. They aren't a big town area that had 15-20 kids every year. But their attitude was that it didn't have to be division 1 success so there was never a push to join for cups. For this reason they never amalgamated despite not always being able to field in 13 a side or 15. And through consistent underage work done down through the years they've unearthed and retained a good core group.(sheridan,mulligan,2 mcgurrins,ryan,brennan,2 mcgowans,connolly,mcguinness,breddin,donal clancy). This group have been developed through and have helped melvin gaels win their first senior championship in a long time. Ultimately should that not be the goal. Underage success is all well and good but is only part of the long term process in developing potential club and county standard senior players. If Melvin Gaels had the same practice of "success over development" in place as Mohill have would that group have reached the same level and ability as was showcased in their championship win. Would some of that group even be there playing football if they had the same set up as St.Manachans? I'd have my doubts..

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 11/10/2012 21:46:05    1281956

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My Amalgamation Conclusion

Badsilage, undertones of your attitude sum up all that is wrong with amalgamations and the competitive mindset overpowering the idea of enjoyment and inclusion which should be the first priority especially in the early age groups. And You are displaying all that is wrong with underage amalgamations with your little "Kilkenny" remark. Because when you start talking that way you've lost track on what should be the most important role when coaching youngsters and that is knowing what is best for their development. Training them like Kilkenny at 13,14 and embedding them with the win at all cost mindset will only play to the few. You will lose more than you gain.. If they are like Kilkenny 10 years down the line then I will applaud you.

For these reasons if at all possible clubs should resist amalgamating especially at these vital periods from 12 to 16. For most cases there is no need and it goes against the best interests of the club,county and underage development. And it is not out of badness or being a moaning michael that Im speaking of Mohill. Its more that they are the extreme case and for them to see the otherside of the argument than anything else. Mohill have some great talent on their own and don't see how counterproductive it is to them especially at the early age levels. They could be winning championships year in year out but aren't serving themselves joining up. So first and foremost there should be single club competitions that are fair to all. The damaging nature of amalgamations needs to be addressed but as has been said if controlled and harnessed as a single grade minor development competition, could provide benefits. But the current "win at all cost" form that is currently engulfing the said underage amalgamation set ups is not in the best interests of the players or their respective clubs. The sooner Mohill wake up to this the sooner they will achieve what they are capable of at senior level.

fresherman (Leitrim) - Posts: 218 - 11/10/2012 21:51:08    1281958

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Does anybody know when the replay is ? Should be another good game ! Suppose Fenagh/Gort are the favourites ?

NoneOfThatCraic (Leitrim) - Posts: 28 - 14/10/2012 13:12:39    1282806

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Replay fixed for Saturday 27th....no time or venue yet

The minor 9 aside is this Sunday between kiltubrid and aughnasheelin,who should win that??

SLM (Leitrim) - Posts: 199 - 17/10/2012 10:29:24    1284283

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Does it matter ?? nine a side dear god !!

badsilage (Leitrim) - Posts: 149 - 17/10/2012 12:27:39    1284335

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