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Replying To tiobraid: "Thoughts on this weekends action? I think most are predicting a Clare win against Dublin but if Dublin can re-produce their first half performance against Galway then they have a chance. Clare at 1/8 though is very short but I think they will win.
Tipp and Galway will both fancy their chances. Main question mark over Tipp for me is who starts at 1 and 6. I'd expect Ronan Maher to be up for this game but he hasnt been near his best now for a couple of seasons and O'Mara may move back in there. Niland may well start at 11 and look to float into space and pick off scores like hes so good at. Would like to see either Forde or Noel at 11 and Bowe back in the starting team. Vital we have Barrett back as well. Himself and Concannon would be an interesting match up and if it happens dont rule out cards in that duel. Goals could win this game and I expect it could be fairly high scoring. Plenty of question marks over both teams in terms of consistency so this game could swing back and forth and i wouldnt rule out ET." I think in the clare v Dublin match the venue will play a big part. Dublin would love to play clare in croker or PUC. If its thurles clare will be happy. If it's Limerick clare will not lose.
Tipp v Galway is a toss of a coin. The offaly match did nothing for Tipps prep for Galway bar getting bodies back on the pitch but an intense 30/40 mins AvB might have been an awful lot more beneficial. Not disrespecting offaly but they're not at the level yet. Building definitely.
Galway needed the 2 weeks and my gut says Tipp always bring out the best in Galway and I wouldn't be writing off the tribesmen.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 19/06/2023 15:30:29
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Replying To tiobraid: "I dont engage with him too often! Having said that you can look at it anyway you want. Since Limerick won in 2018 we are second in role of honour and also second since KK won their last AI in 2015.... So you can bend these things to whatever way you want!
Its the here and now really is what mostly matters tho with one win in 11 cship games against Liam Mc opposition we are certainly well down the pecking order. Some improvements and green shoot seen this year but still miles behind the 2016 team for example." Agree 100 % as usual that's a realistic assessment. I'm not sure over the next 5 years anyone will doninate like Limerick have the last 5, including Limerick themselves, but in order of Likelihood to win an AI title between 2024 and 2028 I'd go-
Limerick
Clare
Cork
Galway
Tipp & Kilkenny about equal.
Tipp would've ranked higher if Sheedy had given more time to the double u20 winners, but then you might have 1 AI less.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15841 - 19/06/2023 15:31:33
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Replying To Viking66: "You had an excellent team between 2010 and 2019. Like Limerick have now. You will likely have others in the future bearing in mind your playing numbers. But to say you are in the same class as Kilkenny in the last 50 years is just pure nonsense." we are in the same class as Kilkenny and maybe a class higher on head to head down through the years
on 50 years between Tipp and Kilkenny head to head Tipp have won 4 (1991, 2010,2016, 2019)
KK have won 3 (2009, 2011,2014)
And 2009 was the robbery of the dodgy penalty that KK got to win the four in a row
so overall it looks like head on head in All Ireland finals Tipp are on top for the last 50 years and the stats pre the last 50 years are even more in Tipps favour.
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:34:26
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Replying To Viking66: "Think the point OTM was making is that you won Munster handy back then?" by beating Ring and co??
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:35:18
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Replying To tiobraid: "I dont engage with him too often! Having said that you can look at it anyway you want. Since Limerick won in 2018 we are second in role of honour and also second since KK won their last AI in 2015.... So you can bend these things to whatever way you want!
Its the here and now really is what mostly matters tho with one win in 11 cship games against Liam Mc opposition we are certainly well down the pecking order. Some improvements and green shoot seen this year but still miles behind the 2016 team for example." 29 my friend
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:36:09
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Replying To Pikeman96: ""The Big Three" has become a thing of the past over the last 30 years. Because what we've really had since 1993 is a Big One and a load of also-rans:
Kilkenny - won 12 finals, lost 7
Tipp - won 4, lost 4
Limerick - won 4, lost 3
Cork - won 3, lost 4
Clare - won 3, lost 1
Offaly - won 2, lost 1
Galway - won 1, lost 6
Wexford - won 1, lost 0
Waterford - won 0, lost 3
Actually, as I've pointed out before (with tongue firmly in cheek), you could actually argue that Wexford has been the most successful hurling county in that time. We're the only one with a 100% record in All-Ireland Finals.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics :)" 1996 is along time ago now
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:37:06
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Replying To tiobraid: "Thoughts on this weekends action? I think most are predicting a Clare win against Dublin but if Dublin can re-produce their first half performance against Galway then they have a chance. Clare at 1/8 though is very short but I think they will win.
Tipp and Galway will both fancy their chances. Main question mark over Tipp for me is who starts at 1 and 6. I'd expect Ronan Maher to be up for this game but he hasnt been near his best now for a couple of seasons and O'Mara may move back in there. Niland may well start at 11 and look to float into space and pick off scores like hes so good at. Would like to see either Forde or Noel at 11 and Bowe back in the starting team. Vital we have Barrett back as well. Himself and Concannon would be an interesting match up and if it happens dont rule out cards in that duel. Goals could win this game and I expect it could be fairly high scoring. Plenty of question marks over both teams in terms of consistency so this game could swing back and forth and i wouldnt rule out ET." Barrett on Whelan
Ronan at 6
O Mara at 5
Shelly at 1
Bowe on the bench
J, McGrath at 14
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:39:02
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Replying To daveboy: "For a very long time certain countys had no plan, resources, foresight, development structures and for the most part unless they got a very good group were going through the motions. Tipp kilkenny Cork always kept standards up. Nowadays every county has the structures in place to succeed. A lot of AIs will be shared around over the next 20 years. Kilkenny Tipp Cork have no divine right to walk back to the top table. They'll have to scrap like the rest of us." Tipp always had to scrap as did Cork and KK but class comes to the top
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:39:57
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Replying To Ryanteam: "Thought someone with over 8000 posts would do better than this! Fair play to you, you'll no doubt hit 10k soon.. a record? .Wexford won in 1955 and 1956 but never dished out the hammerings in finals that Tipperary did in '64/65. Tipp beat a good Kilkenny team in 1965 by 5-14 to 2-8 with an awesome display of hurling. To dominate the 1960's like Tipp did, takes some doing!" Gave KK a similar beating in 2019 in the All Ireland
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:41:06
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Replying To Viking66: "Be a few years yet I'd guess. There's lads posting on this with over 20000 posts I really don't think number of posts matters. If you read the post I was answering you would read that that Tipp team deserved to be considered among the greatest of all time because they won in 64 and 65.
"They peaked in 1964/65 and the total dominance they exercised in those 2 years, would suggest that they are up with the very best. Give credit where credit is due!"
I think the competition was weaker in the mid 60s. Our team was aging. Kilkennys was coming but not quite at their peak yet. Offaly hadn't arrived and Dublin had weakened. Munster as another Munster poster pointed out was also weak at the time. Galway were in the doldrums.
I'm not anti Tipp at all. Currently both our club and county managers are Tipp men, and I've numerous friends in Tipp. The only thing I find annoying about some Tipp people is their insufferable, and in terms of the last 50 years unjustified, arrogance when it comes to hurling. Tiobraid being a very obvious exception!!!" What about the 50's when Tipp won another 3 or4 or was the competition weaker then or between 2010 and 2019 when they won another 3 and the 40's and the 30's??
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 15:43:10
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Replying To Premier28: "ref gave ye everything in 73 when it wasent a 70 as the ball went wide off Paudie Fitzmaurice" You are channelling my Da!
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3553 - 19/06/2023 15:48:52
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Replying To Premier28: "by beating Ring and co??" Ring had retired by 1964. He would've been 44 had he still been playing!!!!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15841 - 19/06/2023 16:02:43
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Replying To Viking66: "Be a few years yet I'd guess. There's lads posting on this with over 20000 posts I really don't think number of posts matters. If you read the post I was answering you would read that that Tipp team deserved to be considered among the greatest of all time because they won in 64 and 65.
"They peaked in 1964/65 and the total dominance they exercised in those 2 years, would suggest that they are up with the very best. Give credit where credit is due!"
I think the competition was weaker in the mid 60s. Our team was aging. Kilkennys was coming but not quite at their peak yet. Offaly hadn't arrived and Dublin had weakened. Munster as another Munster poster pointed out was also weak at the time. Galway were in the doldrums.
I'm not anti Tipp at all. Currently both our club and county managers are Tipp men, and I've numerous friends in Tipp. The only thing I find annoying about some Tipp people is their insufferable, and in terms of the last 50 years unjustified, arrogance when it comes to hurling. Tiobraid being a very obvious exception!!!" We have won more in the last 50 years than most counties have won in the history of hurling
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 16:03:23
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Replying To Premier28: "we are in the same class as Kilkenny and maybe a class higher on head to head down through the years
on 50 years between Tipp and Kilkenny head to head Tipp have won 4 (1991, 2010,2016, 2019)
KK have won 3 (2009, 2011,2014)
And 2009 was the robbery of the dodgy penalty that KK got to win the four in a row
so overall it looks like head on head in All Ireland finals Tipp are on top for the last 50 years and the stats pre the last 50 years are even more in Tipps favour." Thatt would be like saying we are better than Kilkenny since 2017. Over 70 minutes we have beaten them in championship once in 2017, lost by just a point in 2018, drew with and beat them in 2019, drew in 2021, and beat them in 2022 and 2023.
Noone down here would claim we were better than them though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15841 - 19/06/2023 16:06:59
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Replying To Premier28: "1996 is along time ago now" Yup. And likely will be a good while longer ago again by the time we win it again.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15841 - 19/06/2023 16:07:57
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Replying To Premier28: "Tipp always had to scrap as did Cork and KK but class comes to the top" Is that why you are floundering since 2019 then?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15841 - 19/06/2023 16:08:42
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Replying To Premier28: "by beating Ring and co??" Ring was 40 years of age in 1960. He played his last champioship match in '62 at 42 years. Just shows how Cork had sunk.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 19/06/2023 16:10:23
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Replying To Ryanteam: "Never had an issues with Tipp supporters, and usually they are very informed, and not arrogant. In 1964, Tipp introduced newcomers Mick Roche, and Babs Keating. They were unstoppable in those 2 years, and I believe the prevailing opinion within the GAA is that Tipp team will go down as one of the greatest ever! They were certainly tough but with players like Jimmy Doyle , Babs, Tony Wall and Donie Nealon, lots of pure hurling! Kilkenny won in 1963 but had no answer to the Tipp 1964 team!" Yes KK beat Waterford in 1963 when Tipp slipped up against Waterford that was the one that got away as otherwise it would have been 5 in a row so pity no back door that time
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 16:11:11
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Replying To Viking66: "Agree 100 % as usual that's a realistic assessment. I'm not sure over the next 5 years anyone will doninate like Limerick have the last 5, including Limerick themselves, but in order of Likelihood to win an AI title between 2024 and 2028 I'd go-
Limerick
Clare
Cork
Galway
Tipp & Kilkenny about equal.
Tipp would've ranked higher if Sheedy had given more time to the double u20 winners, but then you might have 1 AI less." I think you are forgetting that Tipp won the All Ireland by 14 points in 2019 so Limerick have not dominated for the last 5 years just the last 3 years as this year is not over yet
Premier28 (Tipperary) - Posts: 105 - 19/06/2023 16:13:48
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I see Fast Eddie is slagging us again this morning. This is the chap who possibly cost Cuala a place in the county final with his creche tactic of leaving Con as a one man full forward line. It was only when Con chose to ignore him that Cuala gave themselves a chance against Na Fianna in the semi final. Must have applied for the Dublin job himself ...
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3553 - 19/06/2023 16:18:38
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