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Replying To slayer: "He's smart though LRH :-)
He normally picks up the ball in 5 yards of space usually on the run. By the time he's on his 4th step he has played the ball, so hasn't fouled it. By the time contact arrives both hands are over his head, so how do you get the ball off him and how do you tackle him? Most players try to wrap him up. So Clare fans think he's being fouled, other fans think he's overcarrying.
I just think he's smart about how he receives the ball and if he were on my team I'd want him to keep doing this and draw fouls or break free for scores. His work rate against us was brilliant - he snapped a number of balls in the heat of tackles and was gone, very quick over the first 5 steps. I think he's playing a lot better under Lohan these days. I was at the 2017 & 2018 Munster finals and all he was doing was chasing after Cork corner backs, hurley over his shoulder, when they received the short puck out.
Summary - not a cheat, smart in possession & tackle but I can see both sides of the debate on him. Great lad to have in your team." He's a brilliant hurler. And in every way, not just stickwork. Your summary is spot on.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11841 - 25/05/2023 12:48:21
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When are the Clare lads going to stop diving? We've had Aaron Fitzgerald, Rory Hayes and now Tony Kelly in the 3 of their last 6 games. Like they had been shot by a sniper. Would a suspension for diving get rid of this carry on out of them? Its lowlife.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 25/05/2023 13:14:21
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Replying To countyman2022: "When are the Clare lads going to stop diving? We've had Aaron Fitzgerald, Rory Hayes and now Tony Kelly in the 3 of their last 6 games. Like they had been shot by a sniper. Would a suspension for diving get rid of this carry on out of them? Its lowlife." Difficult one to answer. We had our own D Byrnes one a few years back but JK quickly sorted snuffed that out.
I'm surprised by the Clare approach the last few years given they have a former teak tough manager in charge. Aside from the obvious diving, I cannot for the life of me understand how the fullback gets away so many times with the most obvious Jersey pulling. Too much gamesmanship for one team imo
Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 372 - 25/05/2023 13:34:36
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Replying To slayer: "He's smart though LRH :-)
He normally picks up the ball in 5 yards of space usually on the run. By the time he's on his 4th step he has played the ball, so hasn't fouled it. By the time contact arrives both hands are over his head, so how do you get the ball off him and how do you tackle him? Most players try to wrap him up. So Clare fans think he's being fouled, other fans think he's overcarrying.
I just think he's smart about how he receives the ball and if he were on my team I'd want him to keep doing this and draw fouls or break free for scores. His work rate against us was brilliant - he snapped a number of balls in the heat of tackles and was gone, very quick over the first 5 steps. I think he's playing a lot better under Lohan these days. I was at the 2017 & 2018 Munster finals and all he was doing was chasing after Cork corner backs, hurley over his shoulder, when they received the short puck out.
Summary - not a cheat, smart in possession & tackle but I can see both sides of the debate on him. Great lad to have in your team." I think you actually cant engage contact with him - take a step forward before taking a step or two back and try to force him to over carry - although the will probably set someone else up then. I think himself and Dan Mc are very similar and cleverly play for the free almost all the time. Cathal Barrett is slightly different in that he actually does try get through the tackle but invariably wins frees as well - the 2019 final pass for Bubbles is a prime example of how he engages and looks for contact but came straight through the tackle that day. The other two have a free on their mind 99% of the time
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/05/2023 13:39:17
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Replying To Shocs07: "Difficult one to answer. We had our own D Byrnes one a few years back but JK quickly sorted snuffed that out.
I'm surprised by the Clare approach the last few years given they have a former teak tough manager in charge. Aside from the obvious diving, I cannot for the life of me understand how the fullback gets away so many times with the most obvious Jersey pulling. Too much gamesmanship for one team imo" Every good back does what he has to do and has plenty of dark arts up his sleeve. Tommy Walsh and JJ got away with plenty of things for years and more power to them.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/05/2023 13:53:09
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Replying To tiobraid: "Every good back does what he has to do and has plenty of dark arts up his sleeve. Tommy Walsh and JJ got away with plenty of things for years and more power to them." True and I 100% agree.
Given that he's so blatant though it really shows what a waste of space umpires are
Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 372 - 25/05/2023 14:20:58
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A few points about diving etc, I think hurling has changed for a few reasons over the past ten years. In no particular order:
1 - Paul Kinnerk's coaching 2017 - 2022 pretty much perfected the art of the tackle in hurling
2 - Limerick have had a lot of success with this tackling
3 - MacCarthy Cup teams are spending record amounts of money in team preparation
4 - Counties who have not won silverware over the last 5 years are under massive pressure to deliver
5 - Naturally, teams will analyse how to win & tackling is a huge part of this
6 - Each team has stats coaches who have an influence on management
7 - Coming back to point 1, teams now look for more success in tackles & distribution
- players duck their heads in tackles
- players try to show referees they are in posession & have momentum, to win a free (hands up, lean forward)
- off the ball there is more holding to stop the opponent get that 5M burst to a ball
- it is very noticeable in 2023 that no team wants an opposition player running > 10M with the ball
8 - Under current rules, what a referee decides is totally open to interpretation by supporters
9 - Claims of bias are futile really, referees are trying to keep everyone happy, what a thankless job
10 - Everyone is trying to get that 5% that makes champions
- I think the only thing we can all agree on is that we don't want simulation/diving/feigning injury
- We should understand the pressures that each Management team member & player is under
- hurling is still a great game, cut out simulation and we have a superb product marketable the world over
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 25/05/2023 14:29:17
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Replying To Shocs07: "True and I 100% agree.
Given that he's so blatant though it really shows what a waste of space umpires are" Try & keep up he was booked after after 2nd Foul what ever ball came in before he got hurt he played the ball before he got hurt.
Johnnie Murphy was 70+ yards away so I presume the umpires did call on the headpiece and the booking stopped the fouling so if all officials did this it would soon stop.
Just because Duignan said so it doesn't mean he is the only full back doing it you wont come off black & blue after being marked by him like some backs
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 887 - 25/05/2023 14:52:39
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Replying To Shocs07: "Difficult one to answer. We had our own D Byrnes one a few years back but JK quickly sorted snuffed that out.
I'm surprised by the Clare approach the last few years given they have a former teak tough manager in charge. Aside from the obvious diving, I cannot for the life of me understand how the fullback gets away so many times with the most obvious Jersey pulling. Too much gamesmanship for one team imo" Brynes was back at it at the weekend trying to buy a free about 2 minutes into injury time which the ref thankfully didnt fall for
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2479 - 25/05/2023 14:55:51
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Replying To slayer: "A few points about diving etc, I think hurling has changed for a few reasons over the past ten years. In no particular order:
1 - Paul Kinnerk's coaching 2017 - 2022 pretty much perfected the art of the tackle in hurling
2 - Limerick have had a lot of success with this tackling
3 - MacCarthy Cup teams are spending record amounts of money in team preparation
4 - Counties who have not won silverware over the last 5 years are under massive pressure to deliver
5 - Naturally, teams will analyse how to win & tackling is a huge part of this
6 - Each team has stats coaches who have an influence on management
7 - Coming back to point 1, teams now look for more success in tackles & distribution
- players duck their heads in tackles
- players try to show referees they are in posession & have momentum, to win a free (hands up, lean forward)
- off the ball there is more holding to stop the opponent get that 5M burst to a ball
- it is very noticeable in 2023 that no team wants an opposition player running > 10M with the ball
8 - Under current rules, what a referee decides is totally open to interpretation by supporters
9 - Claims of bias are futile really, referees are trying to keep everyone happy, what a thankless job
10 - Everyone is trying to get that 5% that makes champions
- I think the only thing we can all agree on is that we don't want simulation/diving/feigning injury
- We should understand the pressures that each Management team member & player is under
- hurling is still a great game, cut out simulation and we have a superb product marketable the world over" Good Post
Wishing Limerick well on Sunday I have watched the big 3 all my like, winning games & titles, so it very refreshing to see other teams hit the glory.
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 887 - 25/05/2023 14:56:20
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Replying To LohansRedHelmet: "Lets get this straight if ye want to go down this line, Hegarty (as Hegarty does) was loose with his hurley against Fitzgerald and Fitzgerald wrongly took advantage of his. Fitz was a disgrace granted. But Limerick lads are quick to forget Diarmiud Byrnes in 2018 in Ennis when a gust of air made him hit the ground resulting in David Reidy and his own team mate Tom Condon being sent off.
Watch the match again yesterday especially 73.40 on the clock and low and behold Byrnes is at it again with his own rendition of swan lake and the nutcracker to try and buy a free to win the match that the ref didnt buy. Neymar would have been proud of the attempt.
Dont try and vilify another team like this. You would want your own house to be in top order before you do so." Says a man who keeps bringing up an incident that took place in 18 to vilify a Limerick player
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 25/05/2023 15:11:22
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Replying To tiobraid: "I think you actually cant engage contact with him - take a step forward before taking a step or two back and try to force him to over carry - although the will probably set someone else up then. I think himself and Dan Mc are very similar and cleverly play for the free almost all the time. Cathal Barrett is slightly different in that he actually does try get through the tackle but invariably wins frees as well - the 2019 final pass for Bubbles is a prime example of how he engages and looks for contact but came straight through the tackle that day. The other two have a free on their mind 99% of the time" Tiobraid, I think that Barrett pass to Bubbles was in 2016, not 2019.
midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 542 - 25/05/2023 15:17:49
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Replying To midlands: "Tiobraid, I think that Barrett pass to Bubbles was in 2016, not 2019." You're spot on. My mistake. Every all Ireland we've played in recent times has been against Kk and sometimes it's hard to remember what happened in which game!
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/05/2023 16:03:52
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Says a man who keeps bringing up an incident that took place in 18 to vilify a Limerick player" if you could read I bring up another incident from last weekend with regards the same player.
My point is simple, glass houses and all that.
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2479 - 25/05/2023 16:09:28
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Replying To LohansRedHelmet: "Brynes was back at it at the weekend trying to buy a free about 2 minutes into injury time which the ref thankfully didnt fall for" Not in the same league as Clare lads, plus Clare divers are trying to get opposition players sent off. Clare players are by some distance the worst at it, it's embarrassing.
updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 25/05/2023 16:46:10
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Replying To LohansRedHelmet: "if you could read I bring up another incident from last weekend with regards the same player.
My point is simple, glass houses and all that." Last 5 years must have hurt a lot Lohan
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1126 - 25/05/2023 17:01:53
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Replying To LohansRedHelmet: "if you could read I bring up another incident from last weekend with regards the same player.
My point is simple, glass houses and all that." You have been making this point at every opportunity and long before last Sunday..
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 25/05/2023 23:29:32
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Replying To LohansRedHelmet: "if you could read I bring up another incident from last weekend with regards the same player.
My point is simple, glass houses and all that." However, I think Clare will win the Munster and All Titles this year and that the one poor performance they had last year was just a blip.I think Johnny Murphy yellow carding the Full Back may actually benefit as their Full Line are well able to hurl any opponent like Nash, Finn and Morrissey have done for years.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 26/05/2023 08:11:48
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I think the cork team is strong and has been picked in a very match ups type of way. Sean o Donoghue on Gillane Millerick yo track Tom morrissey O Leary on Casey? Downey on Hego ? Like meade to track Lynch Darragh Fitzgibbon to drop off hannon and expose the space Dalton to stifle Hayes and Kingston to expose Mike caseys pace. Its a smart team for me but some of the players named haven't hurled loads this year and and some a bit lacking in form. It's an all in approach from corm which is understandable but I feel their bench is weak consequently. Ive question marks placed where players may or may not start for Limerick. It's going to be hot Sunday so the bench will be emptied I'd imagine.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1126 - 26/05/2023 09:39:31
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Replying To Oldtourman: "However, I think Clare will win the Munster and All Titles this year and that the one poor performance they had last year was just a blip.I think Johnny Murphy yellow carding the Full Back may actually benefit as their Full Line are well able to hurl any opponent like Nash, Finn and Morrissey have done for years." I disagree. I give us a good shot at the Munster title but we are leaking too many goals to challenge for the big one and now with Cleary potentially out for the season this hurts our defensive capabilities more.
I saw a table last night of the All Time Round Robin Munster league and Clare are on top but also have conceded more goals than any other team. Crazy considering Waterford have only 1 win and 1 draw out of 15 games yet we have conceded more goals.
LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2479 - 26/05/2023 09:58:47
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