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All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2023

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Replying To Viking66:  "The idea is to promote the sport in the middle tier counties. Laois beat Dublin, and Antrim gave Cork plenty of it last year and Kerry went toe to toe with us the first 40 minutes, so it's maybe not that stupid tbh."
It's not good for a team to get a huge beating like Westmeath got in the hurling or Louth today in the football. We hear people say that they learn from it but what positives can a team take from such a trouncing?

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 14/05/2023 15:26:59    2478347

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Replying To baire:  "It's not good for a team to get a huge beating like Westmeath got in the hurling or Louth today in the football. We hear people say that they learn from it but what positives can a team take from such a trouncing?"
No beatings aren't great. But they are a fact of life in every sport. Louth for example were very naive in their set up. You can get a bad beating by 5 short lapses of concentration leading to goals, even if you outscored your opponents by a point in points, with goals worth 3 points.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15731 - 14/05/2023 15:44:59    2478351

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Replying To Viking66:  "What's worrying for Waterford hurling is the lack of minor and u20 success Canuck. By that I mean not winning many games, let alone provincial or national titles. You would have to worry that Waterford could go the same way as Offaly for a while if things don't get better at underage in the next few years. Would make you wonder is Ballygunnars success affecting the county teams, as more and more lads choose to play for them than other clubs in the East Waterford area where they could be playing for 1st teams against better opponents all the way up from u10."
Unfortunately the trend is downwards. Ballygunner provide players that suit Ballygunner's style and have made them one of the top two clubs in the country. Possession game is fine but how do you match up when it comes to fighting for dirty ball and out muscling your opponents. They are not providing enough to Waterford for their dominance. The majority of the players playing for them are logistically their player and no excuse for others. Patrick Fitzgearld is a good prospect. His cousin stayed with Passage and was our best player yesterday for a young player.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3044 - 14/05/2023 15:49:30    2478353

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Replying To Canuck:  "Unfortunately the trend is downwards. Ballygunner provide players that suit Ballygunner's style and have made them one of the top two clubs in the country. Possession game is fine but how do you match up when it comes to fighting for dirty ball and out muscling your opponents. They are not providing enough to Waterford for their dominance. The majority of the players playing for them are logistically their player and no excuse for others. Patrick Fitzgearld is a good prospect. His cousin stayed with Passage and was our best player yesterday for a young player."
Waterfords style is the least of their problems.
Firstly they have really well built lads who seem to run out of gas long before the 70 minutes is up.
Then secondly when the game seems to be going away from them their heads drop. This is all exaggerated by the Round Robin format where they have to play more games in a shorter time frame. In the last 3 editions their best performance came in their 1st game. After that it all went more and more pear-shaped. This is also probably why they did better with the same players in a knockout championship like in 2020 and 2021.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15731 - 14/05/2023 16:27:08    2478359

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I'm talking about what happens on the field of play. That punch to the ribs, not a shove as you deem it, didn't happen on the field of play. Backroom team members hitting players has no part in any sport whatsoever. But by referencing it, your implication is that it is relevant."
I asked a simple question and you can't answer it. You just made up a rule about when players need to behave like men and then deflected..

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1468 - 14/05/2023 16:46:10    2478371

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Replying To Viking66:  "No beatings aren't great. But they are a fact of life in every sport. Louth for example were very naive in their set up. You can get a bad beating by 5 short lapses of concentration leading to goals, even if you outscored your opponents by a point in points, with goals worth 3 points."
Are you suggesting that one of the most successful and shrewd managers in the GAA was naive with his set up today? Dublin are in a different league, simple as. They could have scored two or more goals there today. I feel sorry for Louth having come up from Div 4 to Div 2. I hope they can move on and give a good account of themselves the next day.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 14/05/2023 16:48:14    2478372

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Replying To baire:  "Are you suggesting that one of the most successful and shrewd managers in the GAA was naive with his set up today? Dublin are in a different league, simple as. They could have scored two or more goals there today. I feel sorry for Louth having come up from Div 4 to Div 2. I hope they can move on and give a good account of themselves the next day."
Louth in fairness to Mickey played very well and scored well. But they were cut open at the back. I suppose naive is too strong a word and its better to lose by 20 odd points while scoring 15 than losing by 10 points but only scoring 5.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15731 - 14/05/2023 19:20:35    2478452

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Yes it's the first up. I agree….that's a do or die for both teams. Tipp without Jason Forde is a scary prospect going into facing this Limerick team. I'd be very worried about the kind of score Limerick is going to put up against us. However who would have thought after 3 games in Munster that Tipp might have the chance to knock Limerikc out (if Cork beat Clare in the earlier game). Any complacency that may have been in Limerick is gone now for the rest of the year…unfortunately for the rest!"
I've the same feeling Limerick are far from done in this championship they haven't played badly under performed against a well organised Waterford or so it seemed. Lost a cracker against Clare I feel that perhaps they shud have won. I don't think Limerick will be found wanting from here on in and I expect them to win both games. The Clare v Cork game is going to be some match. Tipp will struggle without Forde did he miss the game against Limerick last year as well? Even if Tipp lose we will be expected to beat Waterford who are on the floor and nothing to play for but that's a dangerous prospect. I'd gladly take another draw Sunday against the champs.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 14/05/2023 21:59:22    2478506

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Replying To baire:  "Are you suggesting that one of the most successful and shrewd managers in the GAA was naive with his set up today? Dublin are in a different league, simple as. They could have scored two or more goals there today. I feel sorry for Louth having come up from Div 4 to Div 2. I hope they can move on and give a good account of themselves the next day."
Are you suggesting that Mickey harte is infallible?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 14/05/2023 22:08:09    2478510

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Replying To WildPundit:  "I've the same feeling Limerick are far from done in this championship they haven't played badly under performed against a well organised Waterford or so it seemed. Lost a cracker against Clare I feel that perhaps they shud have won. I don't think Limerick will be found wanting from here on in and I expect them to win both games. The Clare v Cork game is going to be some match. Tipp will struggle without Forde did he miss the game against Limerick last year as well? Even if Tipp lose we will be expected to beat Waterford who are on the floor and nothing to play for but that's a dangerous prospect. I'd gladly take another draw Sunday against the champs."
I don't think Limerick have played very well in cship tho and they'll be the first to admit that. They've carried their major problem with close in free taking into this years cship again and at some stage they will need to change that. It'll be interesting to see if there's a shakeup for the Tipp game either positionally or in personnel. It won't be lost on limerick how vulnerable Tipp are in the backs this year. Cahill only seems to win one way and that's a shootout and with so many inexperienced players particularly in the forwards it's hard to see us scoring enough. Also interested to see if it's Casey or English who comes in at 2. From a Tipp point of view I'd prefer Casey. I've been a big fan of his but I think he's very prone to drifting up the field and he's the one player in that team who isn't suited to that.
All that changes very little tho and I'm very fearful of what Limerick could do to Tipp.
Tipp don't play Waterford til the following weekend and it's hard to know what Waterford do between now and then. Do they even bother training? It's a tough place to be but I'm not naive enough to think that's a guaranteed win -far from it.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 14/05/2023 22:32:57    2478523

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As a neutral in Thurles on Saturday Clare just looked to be very sure of their game plan whereas Waterford were anything but. Tony Kelly and David Fitzgerald made superb goal saving tackles as Waterford players advanced. Fitzgerald was outstanding for the first goal and his lob that hit the post was a nice little piece of skill.

Clare pulled their forwards out and let Waterford have the ball, knowing they couldn't hit long range scores. When Clare got the ball most passes were forward. Waterford were going left, right and backwards but a lot of what they did achieved nothing. When Bennett and Glesson got the ball in the forwards, once they turned it was like they had no idea where anyone on their team would be. Dessie Hutchinson who is a fine forward was completely starved of possession.

Waterford players going down with cramp 50 minutes in is surely a concern. A couple of their players looked overweight for hurling at this level. I wonder do Waterford need to go back to basics, get a Waterford man in charge and get a good backroom team around him? The Munster round robin format has been a disaster for them and perhaps it is no surprise they did a lot better in 2020 & 2021 when there was no round robin.

Full credit to Brian Lohan and his players after the game. Posed for photos and signed autographs for ages. Pure gentlemen and they put smiles on the faces of so many kids with their actions. Respect.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/05/2023 00:51:43    2478538

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Replying To Canuck:  "You missed a lot Viking is all I can say but look all the decisions in the world would not change the result. Clare 15 beat our 14 off the field and are a fine team. You should not put yourself in this position to begin with. Punishment for a similar and worse offence did not occur. The refs will miss things that is for sure but if you are standing watching it that is hard to take. Again like a blatant trip last week.
We will go away and lick our wounds but quiet honestly the future is bleak. This group has shot its bolt. Clare were worthy winners playing in 3rd gear and now good contenders for silverware."
It was a bad day for Waterford fans having to watch that match you really has to be at game I think to realise how awful it was Clare weren't spectacular either but only thing that was important was the 2 points.
The tactic on the Waterford puck out of all the Waterford players withdrawing into the Clare half and the Clare players following leaving only the Waterford sweeper who lumped down balls on the WD forwards that was easily defended dreadful wides ect .

Even after Callum Lyons was send off he still persisted with a sweeper pure out and out bluff how in earth is he going to go back training on Tuesday night and face the Waterford players.

I think his time in hurling is done now what ever is wrong with WD hurling needs to addressed and promote a manager for within County surely there are some of those great hurlers from the 90's that could step up.

The sending off finished the game really I felt sorry for Callum Lyons but he was silly to get involved in first yellow was he tying to elicit a reaction from Fitzgerald who was just booked. He barged into Fitzgerald who some suggest went down too easy but I watched again on Saturday night and he was looking away to his right when he got hit and to be fair he immediately got back on his feet.

There was a later incident when one of the Clare backs got a little tap and went down it was embarrassing Brian Lohan was one of the toughest players of his era and he should stamp out this rubbish.

Davy Fitzgerald also alluded to some member of Clare backroom giving him abuse this is totally unacceptable but I am sure that the Waterford public see this also as deflection for what it is.

On to Ennis next Sunday Clare need to win I believe Aidan McCarthy w3ill be available he was a huge loss on Saturday

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 985 - 15/05/2023 08:35:37    2478546

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I don't think Limerick have played very well in cship tho and they'll be the first to admit that. They've carried their major problem with close in free taking into this years cship again and at some stage they will need to change that. It'll be interesting to see if there's a shakeup for the Tipp game either positionally or in personnel. It won't be lost on limerick how vulnerable Tipp are in the backs this year. Cahill only seems to win one way and that's a shootout and with so many inexperienced players particularly in the forwards it's hard to see us scoring enough. Also interested to see if it's Casey or English who comes in at 2. From a Tipp point of view I'd prefer Casey. I've been a big fan of his but I think he's very prone to drifting up the field and he's the one player in that team who isn't suited to that.
All that changes very little tho and I'm very fearful of what Limerick could do to Tipp.
Tipp don't play Waterford til the following weekend and it's hard to know what Waterford do between now and then. Do they even bother training? It's a tough place to be but I'm not naive enough to think that's a guaranteed win -far from it."
I think alot will depend on what the players thought of the manner of Cahills departure......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15731 - 15/05/2023 09:40:10    2478561

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I don't think Limerick have played very well in cship tho and they'll be the first to admit that. They've carried their major problem with close in free taking into this years cship again and at some stage they will need to change that. It'll be interesting to see if there's a shakeup for the Tipp game either positionally or in personnel. It won't be lost on limerick how vulnerable Tipp are in the backs this year. Cahill only seems to win one way and that's a shootout and with so many inexperienced players particularly in the forwards it's hard to see us scoring enough. Also interested to see if it's Casey or English who comes in at 2. From a Tipp point of view I'd prefer Casey. I've been a big fan of his but I think he's very prone to drifting up the field and he's the one player in that team who isn't suited to that.
All that changes very little tho and I'm very fearful of what Limerick could do to Tipp.
Tipp don't play Waterford til the following weekend and it's hard to know what Waterford do between now and then. Do they even bother training? It's a tough place to be but I'm not naive enough to think that's a guaranteed win -far from it."
I wouldn't underrate Casey,s effectiveness true his not the type of player who will burst upfield normally but his some man marker. Corner back is probably outside his comfort zone but he won't be beaten easily. If we are to win its probably a shoot out but I don't think this Tipp team will have any fear of playing Limetick. The league game was a good test for the team and I think they will have learnt what Limerick will do if you give them that amount of ball. I think we're just as effective but again I'll go back to Forde what he brings to the play is going to be missed. Others need to step up and if they are good enough what a game to do it in against the best in the country over the last 5 years. It will take a tactical masterclass to beat this Limerick team but all sectors need to win especially the full back line. Breen will need to be on his game to keep Flanagans impact on the game to a minimum.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 15/05/2023 11:22:54    2478632

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think alot will depend on what the players thought of the manner of Cahills departure......"
Maybe they don't blame him for walking now.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2320 - 15/05/2023 13:24:36    2478674

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Replying To clooney:  "It was a bad day for Waterford fans having to watch that match you really has to be at game I think to realise how awful it was Clare weren't spectacular either but only thing that was important was the 2 points.
The tactic on the Waterford puck out of all the Waterford players withdrawing into the Clare half and the Clare players following leaving only the Waterford sweeper who lumped down balls on the WD forwards that was easily defended dreadful wides ect .

Even after Callum Lyons was send off he still persisted with a sweeper pure out and out bluff how in earth is he going to go back training on Tuesday night and face the Waterford players.

I think his time in hurling is done now what ever is wrong with WD hurling needs to addressed and promote a manager for within County surely there are some of those great hurlers from the 90's that could step up.

The sending off finished the game really I felt sorry for Callum Lyons but he was silly to get involved in first yellow was he tying to elicit a reaction from Fitzgerald who was just booked. He barged into Fitzgerald who some suggest went down too easy but I watched again on Saturday night and he was looking away to his right when he got hit and to be fair he immediately got back on his feet.

There was a later incident when one of the Clare backs got a little tap and went down it was embarrassing Brian Lohan was one of the toughest players of his era and he should stamp out this rubbish.

Davy Fitzgerald also alluded to some member of Clare backroom giving him abuse this is totally unacceptable but I am sure that the Waterford public see this also as deflection for what it is.

On to Ennis next Sunday Clare need to win I believe Aidan McCarthy w3ill be available he was a huge loss on Saturday"
Clooney there were a few incidents in the game that I would have issue with but not prepared to take from the superiority of Clare. We are a shambles tactically and lack spirit what ever the reason. This team went from constantly creating goal opportunities to wayward Hail Mary shooting that has no accuracy. One of the best full backs in the game down the field trying to win the puck out. A scoring forward who has had two balls delivered to him in two games hunting in his own half. Hitting in to where he needs to be. I can't even guess what is going on with Jamie Barron. Not a shadow of himself. All in all I have seen better managed junior B teams. They should be remove not for losing 3 games but how this team played and were managed.
Jakie Tyrell and Cummins are talking nonsense. It is funny to hear them use Derek McGrath name after the way they ridiculed him. Derek and Sean Power took a bunch of Harty cup kids and made a team of them though not getting the big goal (Sean did).
Anyway upwards on onwards to your Clare team who are doing you proud.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3044 - 15/05/2023 13:59:18    2478691

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Replying To Bon:  "Maybe they don't blame him for walking now."
Maybe a good look in the mirror is where they should start Bon......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15731 - 15/05/2023 14:27:35    2478698

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Replying To Canuck:  "Clooney there were a few incidents in the game that I would have issue with but not prepared to take from the superiority of Clare. We are a shambles tactically and lack spirit what ever the reason. This team went from constantly creating goal opportunities to wayward Hail Mary shooting that has no accuracy. One of the best full backs in the game down the field trying to win the puck out. A scoring forward who has had two balls delivered to him in two games hunting in his own half. Hitting in to where he needs to be. I can't even guess what is going on with Jamie Barron. Not a shadow of himself. All in all I have seen better managed junior B teams. They should be remove not for losing 3 games but how this team played and were managed.
Jakie Tyrell and Cummins are talking nonsense. It is funny to hear them use Derek McGrath name after the way they ridiculed him. Derek and Sean Power took a bunch of Harty cup kids and made a team of them though not getting the big goal (Sean did).
Anyway upwards on onwards to your Clare team who are doing you proud."
Thanks for the good wishes if you ran the Junior b team like that on Saturday you would be ridiculed by the Club.
Its like the story of the Emperor has no clothes no one buys into this now, I felt genuinely sorry for the Waterford fans around me having to endure that there is still plenty of hurling in this Waterford outfit 3/4 very good hurlers to come back from injury let Ken McGrath Tony Browne Hartley whoever have a shot at it or look over the border to Kilkenny who know how to win things, some of the players too would need to have a look at themselves too.

At start 2022 WD were considered 2nd Placed to Limerick where has it all gone wrong ?

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 985 - 15/05/2023 15:09:25    2478713

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Replying To clooney:  "Thanks for the good wishes if you ran the Junior b team like that on Saturday you would be ridiculed by the Club.
Its like the story of the Emperor has no clothes no one buys into this now, I felt genuinely sorry for the Waterford fans around me having to endure that there is still plenty of hurling in this Waterford outfit 3/4 very good hurlers to come back from injury let Ken McGrath Tony Browne Hartley whoever have a shot at it or look over the border to Kilkenny who know how to win things, some of the players too would need to have a look at themselves too.

At start 2022 WD were considered 2nd Placed to Limerick where has it all gone wrong ?"
is that what ye did in clare look over the border too see to win things....)))))

munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1140 - 15/05/2023 15:18:57    2478717

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Replying To Bon:  "Maybe they don't blame him for walking now."
Bon as far as I am concerned all the mercenary managers can walk. Do you think Liam Cahill or Davy Fitzgerald give a damn about Waterford hurling in the future. Actually Cahill showed his hand in the league what he thought about the Waterford players who played for him despite all the artificial plaudits he dished about them. Fooling no one. I predicted at the start of the season where we would be going into the last game. Waterford out and Tipp needing the win. I predict now that league game will cost Tipp. Look out Breen and company.
Viking It is time for Waterford to look in the mirror. Tony Browne, Paul Flynn , John Mullane, Dan Shannahan, Stephen Molumphy and others get in there and put their shoulder to the wheel. We have men who know hurling as good as anyone else. I have said it before any success we ever had was with Waterford men in charge. Justin and Gerald McCarthy righted the ship for us but they were a different breed than the money making mercenary managers now on the circuit.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3044 - 15/05/2023 15:23:08    2478718

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