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National Forum

All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2023

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Well its not beyond the memory of all but a select few on here to remember when Limerick waited 45 years to win an All-Ireland, Clare waited 81 years and Waterford are still waiting over half a century to win an All-Ireland. In that time Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp swept the board truth be known. The dominance of Limerick at the moment is a crop of outstanding players coming at one time, after a history of choking when the chips were down.

There is no doubt the Munster championship is more competitive at the moment but I will ask again, what is the solution? 20 games in Munster to eliminate 1 team and 4 through?

At very least the Leinster counties are doing something to grow the game by introducing promotion/relegation (even though Dublin or Wexford could well come a cropper some day to that) and allowing Galway and Antrim in to the championship.

You won't even let Kerry in and have no risk of relegation. That's how to promote a game, is it?

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 04/05/2023 08:16:29    2475560

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Replying To baire:  "What you get from the top three in Munster is smugness. Some Cork and Tipp supporters were at it for years until KK put manners on them, now it's Limerick's turn to success bomb us!"
There is no smugness in Limerick it's not in our dna, there is the odd exception like everything else.
You'd be better off focusing on your own team, that fantastic Galway team deserves a far better support than the tiny numbers that travel to support them.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 508 - 04/05/2023 09:11:34    2475568

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "There is no smugness in Limerick it's not in our dna, there is the odd exception like everything else.
You'd be better off focusing on your own team, that fantastic Galway team deserves a far better support than the tiny numbers that travel to support them."
In his defense, you know as well as I do that before Limerick started winning things there wouldn't be half the Ole Ole Brigade driving a 300 mile round trip to a championship match when they knew they were going to play the same team in a months time another 300 mile round trip.
I thought about bringing my sons to the Wexford Galway match in Galway and decided against it when I saw the road to Galway and how far it was

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 04/05/2023 10:30:26    2475587

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Replying To Canuck:  "I have seen great Leinster championship games but there is no question but it is and has always been easier to advance from Leinster. Kilkenny one of the greatest if not the greatest hurling counties over the years only had to throw their jersey out on the pitch to advance at times. Viking your point about Waterford poor All-Ireland results is a testimony to the difficulty of getting out of Munster and the strength of the four other counties. That despite having great teams. Yes Kilkenny and Galway have beaten us when we came out but advancing every 10 years and more is not going to get you there. This is the way it is and not the fault of Leinster counties until changed. Or is it Leinster/Connaught/Ulster championship? The biggest joke of all calling it the Leinster provincial championship."
Hopefully if the sport grows in the areas its not played in much currently, and the mid tier counties can get closer to the top tier ones, there could be a return of the Ulster and Connacht championships. If Westmeath, Offaly, Laois, Carlow and Kildare could get up to Liam Mccarthy standard you could have a 8 team Leinster championship and Galway, Antrim and Kerry could play in the Munster Championship then.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 04/05/2023 10:52:31    2475596

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "You forget Waterford got within three points of Limerick last year."
They did similarly this year too OTM.
Westmeath drew with Wexford last year. And Antrim drew with Dublin this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 04/05/2023 10:54:00    2475598

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Well its not beyond the memory of all but a select few on here to remember when Limerick waited 45 years to win an All-Ireland, Clare waited 81 years and Waterford are still waiting over half a century to win an All-Ireland. In that time Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp swept the board truth be known. The dominance of Limerick at the moment is a crop of outstanding players coming at one time, after a history of choking when the chips were down.

There is no doubt the Munster championship is more competitive at the moment but I will ask again, what is the solution? 20 games in Munster to eliminate 1 team and 4 through?

At very least the Leinster counties are doing something to grow the game by introducing promotion/relegation (even though Dublin or Wexford could well come a cropper some day to that) and allowing Galway and Antrim in to the championship.

You won't even let Kerry in and have no risk of relegation. That's how to promote a game, is it?"
We in Munster left Galway in AND AT ALL GRADES, as far back as 1959. However they left after 11 years, at a time, when I feel they were beginning to benefit from their tenure in Munster. I firmly feel, although it is only speculation, that they wouldhave more Senior All Irelands, won by now, if they had not left us in 1970.
Incidentally, with a huge hurling population, how it is it that Dublin have only won one Leinster title in over 60 years and no All Ireland in 84 seasons and you call Limerick teams, that have won 13 Munster Finals in that period chokers.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4566 - 04/05/2023 11:08:09    2475603

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Replying To Canuck:  "I have seen great Leinster championship games but there is no question but it is and has always been easier to advance from Leinster. Kilkenny one of the greatest if not the greatest hurling counties over the years only had to throw their jersey out on the pitch to advance at times. Viking your point about Waterford poor All-Ireland results is a testimony to the difficulty of getting out of Munster and the strength of the four other counties. That despite having great teams. Yes Kilkenny and Galway have beaten us when we came out but advancing every 10 years and more is not going to get you there. This is the way it is and not the fault of Leinster counties until changed. Or is it Leinster/Connaught/Ulster championship? The biggest joke of all calling it the Leinster provincial championship."
Those who try to belittle Waterford should remember that they have beaten Galway in 11 out of twelve Championship meetings and the last time they did it they had 14 men for the entire second half.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4566 - 04/05/2023 11:11:54    2475608

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "There is no smugness in Limerick it's not in our dna, there is the odd exception like everything else.
You'd be better off focusing on your own team, that fantastic Galway team deserves a far better support than the tiny numbers that travel to support them."
Agree 100% with Fitzy01 about Limerick. We remember some savage beatings and utter disappointments. We're really enjoying what this team has produced over the last 6 years. Hopefully the Clare defeat is a wake up call to get back to full throttle but we take nothing for granted. Everything John Kiely's team has done for our county now has us in bonus territory. We've no right to beat anyone - smugness not in our DNA.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6634 - 04/05/2023 11:29:32    2475616

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Those who try to belittle Waterford should remember that they have beaten Galway in 11 out of twelve Championship meetings and the last time they did it they had 14 men for the entire second half."
You're a great one for patronising Waterford and belittling Galway! Full marks there. A great one for the figures too! Did it ever occur to you that Waterford might gladly exchange all those wins for the one they lost?

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 04/05/2023 12:13:44    2475632

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "We in Munster left Galway in AND AT ALL GRADES, as far back as 1959. However they left after 11 years, at a time, when I feel they were beginning to benefit from their tenure in Munster. I firmly feel, although it is only speculation, that they wouldhave more Senior All Irelands, won by now, if they had not left us in 1970.
Incidentally, with a huge hurling population, how it is it that Dublin have only won one Leinster title in over 60 years and no All Ireland in 84 seasons and you call Limerick teams, that have won 13 Munster Finals in that period chokers."
I agree on all your points there OTM.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 04/05/2023 12:19:56    2475637

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Those who try to belittle Waterford should remember that they have beaten Galway in 11 out of twelve Championship meetings and the last time they did it they had 14 men for the entire second half."
Noone is trying to belittle Waterford. Fact is they are the least successful of the so called top tier counties. And I'd be guessing no hurling supporter would begrudge them an AI either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 04/05/2023 12:22:06    2475639

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Replying To Viking66:  "Noone is trying to belittle Waterford. Fact is they are the least successful of the so called top tier counties. And I'd be guessing no hurling supporter would begrudge them an AI either."
Waterford were a lot more likeable and popular in their old mode with Dan and Mullane and Brick and the boys. Just saying :-)

Matches with Dublin now are bad tempered and sometimes nasty. And there's no particular history between us.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4550 - 04/05/2023 12:36:43    2475642

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Waterford were a lot more likeable and popular in their old mode with Dan and Mullane and Brick and the boys. Just saying :-)

Matches with Dublin now are bad tempered and sometimes nasty. And there's no particular history between us."
Has to be said Gleeson did them no favours either as regards being liked up here by his carry on in a challenge game up here just before the league started. It would still be good for the game if they won a 3rd AI title, just as it would be if Laois and Kerry won a 2nd one.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 04/05/2023 12:49:50    2475645

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Replying To Viking66:  "Noone is trying to belittle Waterford. Fact is they are the least successful of the so called top tier counties. And I'd be guessing no hurling supporter would begrudge them an AI either."
Well you are definitely right about how people would respond to them winning. However, if they to win a few like Clare and Limerick did the hounds of war would be out for their blood. It would be a case of how dare they.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4566 - 04/05/2023 13:09:56    2475653

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Waterford were a lot more likeable and popular in their old mode with Dan and Mullane and Brick and the boys. Just saying :-)

Matches with Dublin now are bad tempered and sometimes nasty. And there's no particular history between us."
Very true. They're full on townies now.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 1090 - 04/05/2023 13:12:32    2475655

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Waterford were a lot more likeable and popular in their old mode with Dan and Mullane and Brick and the boys. Just saying :-)

Matches with Dublin now are bad tempered and sometimes nasty. And there's no particular history between us."
The hurling they played under Gerald McCarthy & then Justin McCarthy was fast, free flowing & exciting. Three Munster titles and the NHL under Justin. The all Ireland semi finals were their downfall - I firmly believe that in 2007 they'd have won it out had they not fallen to our goal fest. At that point they'd beaten Tipp, Cork and Limerick in Munster finals and had beaten Kilkenny in a NHL final. But in all Ireland semi finals it had been defeat to Clare (3 points), Kilkenny (3 points), Cork (1 point) and Limerick (5 points).

Since Waterford changed from Justin to Davy in 2008, I don't think their hurling has been the same. Less off the cuff and individual player brilliance and more about systems, sweepers, tactics. Yet still when they play with freedom, they are a very exciting team to watch. Liam Cahill probably took them furthest out of all the managers since Justin.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6634 - 04/05/2023 13:30:20    2475658

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Replying To countyman2022:  "Very true. They're full on townies now."
Waterford main problem is Davy Fitz.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 200 - 04/05/2023 13:33:35    2475659

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Well you are definitely right about how people would respond to them winning. However, if they to win a few like Clare and Limerick did the hounds of war would be out for their blood. It would be a case of how dare they."
I'm delighted if anyone wins it instead of the big 3. And that would still be the case if Limerick win the next 10!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 04/05/2023 13:34:50    2475660

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Replying To Viking66:  "Has to be said Gleeson did them no favours either as regards being liked up here by his carry on in a challenge game up here just before the league started. It would still be good for the game if they won a 3rd AI title, just as it would be if Laois and Kerry won a 2nd one."
Ouch!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4550 - 04/05/2023 13:44:38    2475664

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Replying To slayer:  "The hurling they played under Gerald McCarthy & then Justin McCarthy was fast, free flowing & exciting. Three Munster titles and the NHL under Justin. The all Ireland semi finals were their downfall - I firmly believe that in 2007 they'd have won it out had they not fallen to our goal fest. At that point they'd beaten Tipp, Cork and Limerick in Munster finals and had beaten Kilkenny in a NHL final. But in all Ireland semi finals it had been defeat to Clare (3 points), Kilkenny (3 points), Cork (1 point) and Limerick (5 points).

Since Waterford changed from Justin to Davy in 2008, I don't think their hurling has been the same. Less off the cuff and individual player brilliance and more about systems, sweepers, tactics. Yet still when they play with freedom, they are a very exciting team to watch. Liam Cahill probably took them furthest out of all the managers since Justin."
They were brilliant team to watch. I used love going to see them especially in Thurles but I recall one game in Croke Park - think it might have been a quarter final - that was one of best I ever saw. They just went at it, which won them some big days, but also possibly cost them some for a certain naivety against the stripey men who took particular pleasure in dismantling them. Their league final win over Cats was some day to be at.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4550 - 04/05/2023 13:50:35    2475669

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