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Replying To Viking66: "Your dad would be very proud Barney!" It was my grandad who brought the Tipp genes, He played for Dublin in 1920s but was known to support any other team playing Dublin, other than when one of his sons was hurling for them in 50s and 60s.
So my loyalty is probably misplaced!
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4550 - 03/05/2023 13:44:36
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "It wasn't really though, Waterford had been atrocious long before that incident!
And to be honest, Waterford are known to have "slippery feet" for a good few years before so its a case of live by sword die by it. Tough luck." That is the greatest nonsense probably coming from people who never went to a Waterford game in their life. We have been kicked, butt ended, head hunted, and spat on but that is okay as long you off set it with an accusation of simulation. I guess in your opinion we are the only one who are doing this. Now you are head hunting the integrity of a county that has contributed it share to hurling and I will never do that to any county. The proof you are doing this is you are factual wrong about this game. The miss by the ref was a two point swing 7 or 8 minutes in. I will not use it as an excuse or an attack on James Owens because the final result speaks for itself.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3249 - 03/05/2023 14:22:33
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Replying To clooney: "Referee diden't help Waterford's cause missed good goal chances but hugely disappointing overall Fans seem to have no faith in team or management. They don't suit restrictive tactics IMO they were hugely entertaining in the 90s swashbuckling type of hurling.
No disrespect to Leinster but Munster is a real Bear pit you could have played 4 all Ireland winning performances and still not have won the Munster Final.
Limerick V Tipperary could be a classic" Yes but last year Cork got through to an AI QF without having to play anyone who were playing well at the time.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 03/05/2023 14:28:55
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Replying To clooney: "Referee diden't help Waterford's cause missed good goal chances but hugely disappointing overall Fans seem to have no faith in team or management. They don't suit restrictive tactics IMO they were hugely entertaining in the 90s swashbuckling type of hurling.
No disrespect to Leinster but Munster is a real Bear pit you could have played 4 all Ireland winning performances and still not have won the Munster Final.
Limerick V Tipperary could be a classic" That is some howler of a comment. Munster is very good because it is very competitive and lends itself to close games but is the quality that much ahead? Are all the games of All Ireland winning standard?? Clare got hockeyed by Kilkenny last year, Galway beat Cork and gave Limerick a great game. Wexford could easily have won the other 1/4 Final.
LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 03/05/2023 14:43:09
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Replying To Viking66: "Yes but last year Cork got through to an AI QF without having to play anyone who were playing well at the time." Sorry that should read beat anyone playing well
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 03/05/2023 15:37:15
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Yes, I see your point Exiled. The Mackey Stand should never have been designed like it was, but a major overhaul of that pitch would not be justified either. I would absolutely not approach JP for any more money as the man supports so many good causes in Limerick, and elsewhere, that it would be very poor form to approach him for more money again." Indeed. JP has invested so much in Limerick, incl. this latest timely and wonderful facility:
https://www.limerickleader.ie/video/home/1161015/watch-world-cup-winner-full-of-praise-for-newly-opened-international-rugby-experience.html
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2635 - 03/05/2023 15:53:12
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "That is some howler of a comment. Munster is very good because it is very competitive and lends itself to close games but is the quality that much ahead? Are all the games of All Ireland winning standard?? Clare got hockeyed by Kilkenny last year, Galway beat Cork and gave Limerick a great game. Wexford could easily have won the other 1/4 Final." No its not Larry. What is in Leinster apart from KK, a team that were easily beaten by Waterford, in two of the last three years and lost to a Limerick team in last years Final that was utterly riddled with injuries. Casey and Lynch were off, Guillane was clearly carrying an injury, and Hayes was a doubtful starter. Add in the fact that David Reidy, who played such a role in beating Galway, was also carrying a knock. Wexford did run Clare close and KK did beat them, but the fact that Waterford have beaten KK three times in the last five years, says that KK are not what they were. As regards Galway they can always rise it for one game, but time and again over the decades they fail to perform to their full potential the next day. The fact that Dublin could only draw with Antrim gives us a fair idea where they are at.
The face is Clare has won an All Ireland this Century and appeared in two Finals, Waterford has appeared in three Finals and of course Cork Tipp and Limerick have all won more that one All Ireland in that time and Waterford, Clare and Limerick have ten Under 21 All Irelands between them. What have Wexford, Dublin or Offaly, won at any level in the past twenty three seasons?
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4566 - 03/05/2023 16:09:42
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "That is some howler of a comment. Munster is very good because it is very competitive and lends itself to close games but is the quality that much ahead? Are all the games of All Ireland winning standard?? Clare got hockeyed by Kilkenny last year, Galway beat Cork and gave Limerick a great game. Wexford could easily have won the other 1/4 Final." Do you not feel that the leinster countys have an advantage in the AI series as most of the time Galway and kk are there without too much trouble bar that one year Galway got caught on the hop on points difference. This relative easy route through to the AI series can help those countys in planning to peak for that time of year rather than now like clare and tipp might be doing and possibly cork. Its just my opinion but I'd know for a fact that limerick do take certain risks in their training schedules and planning over the last few years in trying to peak for June rather than April. These schedules are set out months in advance and obviously they take chances. It may not necessarily be a quality thing. ie if you out Galway and kk into munster next year I wonder would they tailor their prep differently. I'm using Galway and kk at examples with no disrespect to any other leinster county but they do seem to be the only genuine AI contenders in that province currently.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 03/05/2023 16:12:08
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "That is some howler of a comment. Munster is very good because it is very competitive and lends itself to close games but is the quality that much ahead? Are all the games of All Ireland winning standard?? Clare got hockeyed by Kilkenny last year, Galway beat Cork and gave Limerick a great game. Wexford could easily have won the other 1/4 Final." I agree the Quality is as good sometimes better, but it seems to be to be a lot harder to get even the 3rd Spot in Munster 2 wins wont guarantee you a qualifying spot you have Limerick well on top and on there day 4 other teams that could do the business.
If you take the Galway V Kilkenny you would nearly be guaranteed that both will qualify Wexford & Dublin can also turn in on so relax a bit
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 1009 - 03/05/2023 16:18:18
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Replying To Oldtourman: "No its not Larry. What is in Leinster apart from KK, a team that were easily beaten by Waterford, in two of the last three years and lost to a Limerick team in last years Final that was utterly riddled with injuries. Casey and Lynch were off, Guillane was clearly carrying an injury, and Hayes was a doubtful starter. Add in the fact that David Reidy, who played such a role in beating Galway, was also carrying a knock. Wexford did run Clare close and KK did beat them, but the fact that Waterford have beaten KK three times in the last five years, says that KK are not what they were. As regards Galway they can always rise it for one game, but time and again over the decades they fail to perform to their full potential the next day. The fact that Dublin could only draw with Antrim gives us a fair idea where they are at.
The face is Clare has won an All Ireland this Century and appeared in two Finals, Waterford has appeared in three Finals and of course Cork Tipp and Limerick have all won more that one All Ireland in that time and Waterford, Clare and Limerick have ten Under 21 All Irelands between them. What have Wexford, Dublin or Offaly, won at any level in the past twenty three seasons?" What's your solution? The provincial system is lopsided, always has been especially in hurling.
The fairest system would be an open draw, a non-provincial system but neither the Munster nor the Leinster Council would agree to it.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 03/05/2023 16:45:41
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Replying To Oldtourman: "No its not Larry. What is in Leinster apart from KK, a team that were easily beaten by Waterford, in two of the last three years and lost to a Limerick team in last years Final that was utterly riddled with injuries. Casey and Lynch were off, Guillane was clearly carrying an injury, and Hayes was a doubtful starter. Add in the fact that David Reidy, who played such a role in beating Galway, was also carrying a knock. Wexford did run Clare close and KK did beat them, but the fact that Waterford have beaten KK three times in the last five years, says that KK are not what they were. As regards Galway they can always rise it for one game, but time and again over the decades they fail to perform to their full potential the next day. The fact that Dublin could only draw with Antrim gives us a fair idea where they are at.
The face is Clare has won an All Ireland this Century and appeared in two Finals, Waterford has appeared in three Finals and of course Cork Tipp and Limerick have all won more that one All Ireland in that time and Waterford, Clare and Limerick have ten Under 21 All Irelands between them. What have Wexford, Dublin or Offaly, won at any level in the past twenty three seasons?" Apart from Kilkenny who have won the most AIs in the last 23 years the Munster counties have been the next most successful, bar Waterford who haven't win 1 in over 60 years. Dublin haven't either. Larry's point though is that last year apart from Limerick Munster counties struggled to beat, or failed to beat, Leinster ones. Limerick didn't exactly thrash Galway or Kilkenny either. Both got closer to Limerick than all the Munster counties bar Clare. And he
No Munster county has played Antrim in a Championship game lately apart from Cork, and they looked far from impressive for most of that game, especially considering they were playing an Antrim side who played and won their biggest game of the year only a week previously, and no doubt celebrated that win also.
It's a bit unfair on Offaly to say they haven't won AIs in years they weren't even competing in it, but I suppose it makes your point look better!
Bottom line is that the last 23 years has looked pretty similar to the previous 115 odd years. Until your 2nd/3rd golden generation came along the big 3 won every AI title this millennium bar the 1 each Galway and Clare won.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 03/05/2023 17:08:57
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Replying To daveboy: "Do you not feel that the leinster countys have an advantage in the AI series as most of the time Galway and kk are there without too much trouble bar that one year Galway got caught on the hop on points difference. This relative easy route through to the AI series can help those countys in planning to peak for that time of year rather than now like clare and tipp might be doing and possibly cork. Its just my opinion but I'd know for a fact that limerick do take certain risks in their training schedules and planning over the last few years in trying to peak for June rather than April. These schedules are set out months in advance and obviously they take chances. It may not necessarily be a quality thing. ie if you out Galway and kk into munster next year I wonder would they tailor their prep differently. I'm using Galway and kk at examples with no disrespect to any other leinster county but they do seem to be the only genuine AI contenders in that province currently." If you think like that you get caught out in Leinster. We only drew with Westmeath and lost to Dublin last year. Kilkenny only qualified because Dublin failed to get a point at the same time. Other than that they were gone. Also in Leinster you have an extra game which increases your injury risk, and means less time to recover between games. You probably noticed already that Kilkenny played their strongest team against Westmeath. Yes they ran up a big score as Westmeath were missing a few lads but those Kilkenny players still had to play and win the game. They weren't relaxing at home like the Cork lads. And didn't rest over half their first team, including most of their best players, and still won pulling up, as happened in a farce of a Munster Championship game last year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 03/05/2023 17:18:06
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Replying To Viking66: "Apart from Kilkenny who have won the most AIs in the last 23 years the Munster counties have been the next most successful, bar Waterford who haven't win 1 in over 60 years. Dublin haven't either. Larry's point though is that last year apart from Limerick Munster counties struggled to beat, or failed to beat, Leinster ones. Limerick didn't exactly thrash Galway or Kilkenny either. Both got closer to Limerick than all the Munster counties bar Clare. And he
No Munster county has played Antrim in a Championship game lately apart from Cork, and they looked far from impressive for most of that game, especially considering they were playing an Antrim side who played and won their biggest game of the year only a week previously, and no doubt celebrated that win also.
It's a bit unfair on Offaly to say they haven't won AIs in years they weren't even competing in it, but I suppose it makes your point look better!
Bottom line is that the last 23 years has looked pretty similar to the previous 115 odd years. Until your 2nd/3rd golden generation came along the big 3 won every AI title this millennium bar the 1 each Galway and Clare won." What you get from the top three in Munster is smugness. Some Cork and Tipp supporters were at it for years until KK put manners on them, now it's Limerick's turn to success bomb us!
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 03/05/2023 17:21:51
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Replying To Viking66: "Apart from Kilkenny who have won the most AIs in the last 23 years the Munster counties have been the next most successful, bar Waterford who haven't win 1 in over 60 years. Dublin haven't either. Larry's point though is that last year apart from Limerick Munster counties struggled to beat, or failed to beat, Leinster ones. Limerick didn't exactly thrash Galway or Kilkenny either. Both got closer to Limerick than all the Munster counties bar Clare. And he
No Munster county has played Antrim in a Championship game lately apart from Cork, and they looked far from impressive for most of that game, especially considering they were playing an Antrim side who played and won their biggest game of the year only a week previously, and no doubt celebrated that win also.
It's a bit unfair on Offaly to say they haven't won AIs in years they weren't even competing in it, but I suppose it makes your point look better!
Bottom line is that the last 23 years has looked pretty similar to the previous 115 odd years. Until your 2nd/3rd golden generation came along the big 3 won every AI title this millennium bar the 1 each Galway and Clare won." I have seen great Leinster championship games but there is no question but it is and has always been easier to advance from Leinster. Kilkenny one of the greatest if not the greatest hurling counties over the years only had to throw their jersey out on the pitch to advance at times. Viking your point about Waterford poor All-Ireland results is a testimony to the difficulty of getting out of Munster and the strength of the four other counties. That despite having great teams. Yes Kilkenny and Galway have beaten us when we came out but advancing every 10 years and more is not going to get you there. This is the way it is and not the fault of Leinster counties until changed. Or is it Leinster/Connaught/Ulster championship? The biggest joke of all calling it the Leinster provincial championship.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3249 - 03/05/2023 17:32:58
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Replying To Viking66: "Apart from Kilkenny who have won the most AIs in the last 23 years the Munster counties have been the next most successful, bar Waterford who haven't win 1 in over 60 years. Dublin haven't either. Larry's point though is that last year apart from Limerick Munster counties struggled to beat, or failed to beat, Leinster ones. Limerick didn't exactly thrash Galway or Kilkenny either. Both got closer to Limerick than all the Munster counties bar Clare. And he
No Munster county has played Antrim in a Championship game lately apart from Cork, and they looked far from impressive for most of that game, especially considering they were playing an Antrim side who played and won their biggest game of the year only a week previously, and no doubt celebrated that win also.
It's a bit unfair on Offaly to say they haven't won AIs in years they weren't even competing in it, but I suppose it makes your point look better!
Bottom line is that the last 23 years has looked pretty similar to the previous 115 odd years. Until your 2nd/3rd golden generation came along the big 3 won every AI title this millennium bar the 1 each Galway and Clare won." You forget Waterford got within three points of Limerick last year.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4566 - 03/05/2023 17:32:58
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Replying To Viking66: "Apart from Kilkenny who have won the most AIs in the last 23 years the Munster counties have been the next most successful, bar Waterford who haven't win 1 in over 60 years. Dublin haven't either. Larry's point though is that last year apart from Limerick Munster counties struggled to beat, or failed to beat, Leinster ones. Limerick didn't exactly thrash Galway or Kilkenny either. Both got closer to Limerick than all the Munster counties bar Clare. And he
No Munster county has played Antrim in a Championship game lately apart from Cork, and they looked far from impressive for most of that game, especially considering they were playing an Antrim side who played and won their biggest game of the year only a week previously, and no doubt celebrated that win also.
It's a bit unfair on Offaly to say they haven't won AIs in years they weren't even competing in it, but I suppose it makes your point look better!
Bottom line is that the last 23 years has looked pretty similar to the previous 115 odd years. Until your 2nd/3rd golden generation came along the big 3 won every AI title this millennium bar the 1 each Galway and Clare won." You forget Waterford got within three points of Limerick last year. As regards Offaly, well as far as true Leinster no County has come closer to winning an All Ireland, outside of KK than The Offaly minor side last year and Offaly won an All ireland later that Watefodr Dublin or Wexford, so why should they not ne mentioned.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4566 - 03/05/2023 17:36:10
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Replying To Viking66: "If you think like that you get caught out in Leinster. We only drew with Westmeath and lost to Dublin last year. Kilkenny only qualified because Dublin failed to get a point at the same time. Other than that they were gone. Also in Leinster you have an extra game which increases your injury risk, and means less time to recover between games. You probably noticed already that Kilkenny played their strongest team against Westmeath. Yes they ran up a big score as Westmeath were missing a few lads but those Kilkenny players still had to play and win the game. They weren't relaxing at home like the Cork lads. And didn't rest over half their first team, including most of their best players, and still won pulling up, as happened in a farce of a Munster Championship game last year." Fair point
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 03/05/2023 17:58:45
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Look time will tell but I can guarantee come AI quarter final time it will be all talk about how far ahead Munster is than Leinster and then history will repeat itself and we will have very tight competitive games right up to the All Ireland. Munster people talk out of both sides of their mouth about their championship - speak about how hard it is to get out of but yet won't change it or let other teams in
LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 03/05/2023 20:17:32
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Replying To baire: "What you get from the top three in Munster is smugness. Some Cork and Tipp supporters were at it for years until KK put manners on them, now it's Limerick's turn to success bomb us!" Well Cork beat KK the year before last and Limerick beat them 16 points in the final. They were that much ahead at half time, so if they had not taken the foot of the pedal they could have beaten them a lot more. In 2020 Waterford ran KK off the field after being well down early in the game, yet Limerick won the Final by eleven points. The recent League Final was not a great day for KK either.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4566 - 03/05/2023 21:35:56
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Replying To daveboy: "Do you not feel that the leinster countys have an advantage in the AI series as most of the time Galway and kk are there without too much trouble bar that one year Galway got caught on the hop on points difference. This relative easy route through to the AI series can help those countys in planning to peak for that time of year rather than now like clare and tipp might be doing and possibly cork. Its just my opinion but I'd know for a fact that limerick do take certain risks in their training schedules and planning over the last few years in trying to peak for June rather than April. These schedules are set out months in advance and obviously they take chances. It may not necessarily be a quality thing. ie if you out Galway and kk into munster next year I wonder would they tailor their prep differently. I'm using Galway and kk at examples with no disrespect to any other leinster county but they do seem to be the only genuine AI contenders in that province currently." Leinster is more competitive than some people seem to think but it is undoubtedly an easier championship to qualify out of for Galway and Kilkenny. That's why the provincial championships should be detached from the All-Ireland and replaced by two evenly-balanced 6-team groups.
Báireoir (Dublin) - Posts: 80 - 03/05/2023 21:41:10
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