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Replying To Canuck: "Daveboy that is funny. Tommy Walsh ? Who I think is a great character. A master of the dark arts when playing. Tipping the helmet down in the eyes of his opponent and lifting the players elbow as he was about to catch the ball. Gleeson's shenanigans with helmets you could see with a blind fold but not Tommy. Tyrell made many opponents eat his hurley . These guys have a neck like a jockey's you know what. Or they get one when they become pundits." There's alot more to winning games of hurling than having great stickmen that's for sure. And that was always the way, maybe even more so back in the 30s and 50s and before from what I've read.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 27/04/2023 07:21:22
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "No, what did he say? I can't find anything online." https://doublepod.page.link/mNWdcGWeahJ53yQB8
15 minute interview on his reaction to the match in Thurles. Always great to listen to. Balanced. If the url doesn't work its on the newstalk website or any podcast viewer. Tom Dempsey had a very balanced opinion on it on the irish examiner hurling podcast also. Again a good debate on that show too.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 27/04/2023 07:40:50
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Tommy Walsh is a great pundit, some others (Jackie, Shane Dowling, Donal Og) just want it to be all about them and what they say.
Anybody who disputes the dark arts or indeed the "pull first ask questions later" mantra which existed in the game up to the noughties never played the game before then.
Tommy is on record as not calling them the "dark arts" but rather calling them the "arts" and he makes a point. Everyone who ever played the game knew (and knows) when to flick the hurl, when to push the helmet forward a nudge, when to knock the arm of the opponent, when to grab the hurl out of sight of the ref. Its a different game now than that game played back then.
That said, I think every full back in the game gets away with an inordinate amount of pulling and dragging.
But then again, there's a diving culture in the game now. Where the full forward leans back in to the full back, falls to the ground and everyone roars for a free. There's also lots of pretending hurls are being held, ducking in to challenges to make it look high, and certain counties have these to an art where as the likes of Conor McDonald for Wexford can't get a free for love nor money.
And all the talk about referees, well who in gods name would want to do the job.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 27/04/2023 08:56:04
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The reason i comment on Limerick is because i can't understand how they keep putting themselves in this position. Best team in the country and will win 19 out of 20 games they play if its 15 against 15 - their discipline lets them down and give other teams a chance.
Anyway moving on -
Limerick v Clare - Potential to be a cracker. I think this will be very close, Clare have the forwards and the know how to trouble Limerick. They scored 3-23 with 15 wides and only a point from TK last week so they are clearly creating chances. Be interesting to see how much limerick miss Hannon and Flanagan, Casey and i presume O'Neill are able replacements but the lads are losses all the same. I expect them to win on Saturday but seeds of optimism may have been sown in opposition teams and it will be interesting to see how they react to a poor enough performance last week. LIMERICK
Cork v Waterford - No clue really what way this will go!!! Who will start for Cork? I don't fancy them in the slightest in this championship if we see Horgan, Lehane, Cahalane & Harnedy playing. Not because they are bad players per se but it says more about the lads coming through who cant replace them. Waterford are hard to gauge. Was Sunday a flash in the pan or will Bennett, Dessie and Callum Lyons back up performances and tear into Cork in a similar fashion to last Sunday. De Burca is a big loss. WATERFORD
Galway v Kilkenny - I was not impressed in the slightest by Galway. They looked leggy and slow against a poor Wexford team that should have scored probably 4 goals against them. I think McInerney is liability at full back and will be cleaned some day by a clever quick full forward i.e Eoin COdy or TJ Reid. I think they will struggle against Kilkenny however saying all that I'm not convinced on KK either. Their panel is weaker than last year and TJ is a year older. I cannot see where the improvement is going to come from. Mullen looked class against Westmeath but Padraig Mannion will be a different kettle of fish. DRAW
Wexford v Antrim - Wexford v Galway was a strange game played at League pace with a League atmosphere however that being said their were green shoots in the performance and we were competitive all over the field. Simple things like urgency and tempo need to be upped but i think if we get Chin and Reck back we will have a few shocks in us by the end of the year. I expect that to start on Saturday v Antrim, the boys are forewarned by Antrims performance v Dublin. Hard to know what Antrim we will see away from home. Will they be galvanised by last week or will they be deflated that they didn't finish the job. Anyway a real 6 pointer in Wexford Park which i think Wexford will handle - WEXFORD
LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 27/04/2023 09:26:41
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "The reason i comment on Limerick is because i can't understand how they keep putting themselves in this position. Best team in the country and will win 19 out of 20 games they play if its 15 against 15 - their discipline lets them down and give other teams a chance.
Anyway moving on -
Limerick v Clare - Potential to be a cracker. I think this will be very close, Clare have the forwards and the know how to trouble Limerick. They scored 3-23 with 15 wides and only a point from TK last week so they are clearly creating chances. Be interesting to see how much limerick miss Hannon and Flanagan, Casey and i presume O'Neill are able replacements but the lads are losses all the same. I expect them to win on Saturday but seeds of optimism may have been sown in opposition teams and it will be interesting to see how they react to a poor enough performance last week. LIMERICK
Cork v Waterford - No clue really what way this will go!!! Who will start for Cork? I don't fancy them in the slightest in this championship if we see Horgan, Lehane, Cahalane & Harnedy playing. Not because they are bad players per se but it says more about the lads coming through who cant replace them. Waterford are hard to gauge. Was Sunday a flash in the pan or will Bennett, Dessie and Callum Lyons back up performances and tear into Cork in a similar fashion to last Sunday. De Burca is a big loss. WATERFORD
Galway v Kilkenny - I was not impressed in the slightest by Galway. They looked leggy and slow against a poor Wexford team that should have scored probably 4 goals against them. I think McInerney is liability at full back and will be cleaned some day by a clever quick full forward i.e Eoin COdy or TJ Reid. I think they will struggle against Kilkenny however saying all that I'm not convinced on KK either. Their panel is weaker than last year and TJ is a year older. I cannot see where the improvement is going to come from. Mullen looked class against Westmeath but Padraig Mannion will be a different kettle of fish. DRAW
Wexford v Antrim - Wexford v Galway was a strange game played at League pace with a League atmosphere however that being said their were green shoots in the performance and we were competitive all over the field. Simple things like urgency and tempo need to be upped but i think if we get Chin and Reck back we will have a few shocks in us by the end of the year. I expect that to start on Saturday v Antrim, the boys are forewarned by Antrims performance v Dublin. Hard to know what Antrim we will see away from home. Will they be galvanised by last week or will they be deflated that they didn't finish the job. Anyway a real 6 pointer in Wexford Park which i think Wexford will handle - WEXFORD" Hard to argue with any of that Larry though I think Galway might have a slight edge over Kilkenny. What we don't know is how Lyng will have Kilkenny playing. If they pick lads to run at Galway they might win but I don't think they will.
You left out Dublin v Westmeath. I think Westmeath will have targeted their games against us, Antrim and Dublin as winnable. If Doyle and a couple of others are back fully fit they might spring a surprise. Not sure they will be yet though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20668 - 27/04/2023 10:56:04
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "The reason i comment on Limerick is because i can't understand how they keep putting themselves in this position. Best team in the country and will win 19 out of 20 games they play if its 15 against 15 - their discipline lets them down and give other teams a chance.
Anyway moving on -
Limerick v Clare - Potential to be a cracker. I think this will be very close, Clare have the forwards and the know how to trouble Limerick. They scored 3-23 with 15 wides and only a point from TK last week so they are clearly creating chances. Be interesting to see how much limerick miss Hannon and Flanagan, Casey and i presume O'Neill are able replacements but the lads are losses all the same. I expect them to win on Saturday but seeds of optimism may have been sown in opposition teams and it will be interesting to see how they react to a poor enough performance last week. LIMERICK
Cork v Waterford - No clue really what way this will go!!! Who will start for Cork? I don't fancy them in the slightest in this championship if we see Horgan, Lehane, Cahalane & Harnedy playing. Not because they are bad players per se but it says more about the lads coming through who cant replace them. Waterford are hard to gauge. Was Sunday a flash in the pan or will Bennett, Dessie and Callum Lyons back up performances and tear into Cork in a similar fashion to last Sunday. De Burca is a big loss. WATERFORD
Galway v Kilkenny - I was not impressed in the slightest by Galway. They looked leggy and slow against a poor Wexford team that should have scored probably 4 goals against them. I think McInerney is liability at full back and will be cleaned some day by a clever quick full forward i.e Eoin COdy or TJ Reid. I think they will struggle against Kilkenny however saying all that I'm not convinced on KK either. Their panel is weaker than last year and TJ is a year older. I cannot see where the improvement is going to come from. Mullen looked class against Westmeath but Padraig Mannion will be a different kettle of fish. DRAW
Wexford v Antrim - Wexford v Galway was a strange game played at League pace with a League atmosphere however that being said their were green shoots in the performance and we were competitive all over the field. Simple things like urgency and tempo need to be upped but i think if we get Chin and Reck back we will have a few shocks in us by the end of the year. I expect that to start on Saturday v Antrim, the boys are forewarned by Antrims performance v Dublin. Hard to know what Antrim we will see away from home. Will they be galvanised by last week or will they be deflated that they didn't finish the job. Anyway a real 6 pointer in Wexford Park which i think Wexford will handle - WEXFORD" Excellent post. Some really interesting points Larry. You're bang on re clare and their ability to create. TK won't have a shadow Saturday and Limerick will need to be right at it.
I'd agree on cork v Waterford. Cork are very wary of where they are . They've no idea who will be the starting 15 and Waterford for all we say about Davy will be organised. Everyone will know their jobs.
Galway really need to win Leinster this year and that starts this weekend. I think kk are a bit better than you think but that's only a hunch if I'm honest. I think kk will win.
Wexford will need Chin this weekend. He is that important. Wexford Park will be a big factor always a hard place to go. Great night out when you win which from my own experience was rare
Limerick
Waterford
Kilkenny
Wexford
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 27/04/2023 10:59:29
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Antrim, Galway, Dublin, Clare and Waterford all to win this Weekend 160/1.
Galway, Dublin, Waterford and Clare almost certs but Antrim v Wexford could go either way.
Defeat for Wexford practically ends their involvement unless they beat Dublin.
Waterford and Clare can't afford to loose two on the bounce!
Wonder who from limrik will get sent off or how many!!
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2943 - 27/04/2023 13:23:43
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Time for the what ifs to be banished. We have to beat Cork on Sunday or good night nurse. No use talking about if we had taking our chances against Limerick. There are three games left. Win them and no doubt you are in. Lose one more and the chances narrow considerable.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3249 - 27/04/2023 13:49:44
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "The reason i comment on Limerick is because i can't understand how they keep putting themselves in this position. Best team in the country and will win 19 out of 20 games they play if its 15 against 15 - their discipline lets them down and give other teams a chance.
Anyway moving on -
Limerick v Clare - Potential to be a cracker. I think this will be very close, Clare have the forwards and the know how to trouble Limerick. They scored 3-23 with 15 wides and only a point from TK last week so they are clearly creating chances. Be interesting to see how much limerick miss Hannon and Flanagan, Casey and i presume O'Neill are able replacements but the lads are losses all the same. I expect them to win on Saturday but seeds of optimism may have been sown in opposition teams and it will be interesting to see how they react to a poor enough performance last week. LIMERICK
Cork v Waterford - No clue really what way this will go!!! Who will start for Cork? I don't fancy them in the slightest in this championship if we see Horgan, Lehane, Cahalane & Harnedy playing. Not because they are bad players per se but it says more about the lads coming through who cant replace them. Waterford are hard to gauge. Was Sunday a flash in the pan or will Bennett, Dessie and Callum Lyons back up performances and tear into Cork in a similar fashion to last Sunday. De Burca is a big loss. WATERFORD
Galway v Kilkenny - I was not impressed in the slightest by Galway. They looked leggy and slow against a poor Wexford team that should have scored probably 4 goals against them. I think McInerney is liability at full back and will be cleaned some day by a clever quick full forward i.e Eoin COdy or TJ Reid. I think they will struggle against Kilkenny however saying all that I'm not convinced on KK either. Their panel is weaker than last year and TJ is a year older. I cannot see where the improvement is going to come from. Mullen looked class against Westmeath but Padraig Mannion will be a different kettle of fish. DRAW
Wexford v Antrim - Wexford v Galway was a strange game played at League pace with a League atmosphere however that being said their were green shoots in the performance and we were competitive all over the field. Simple things like urgency and tempo need to be upped but i think if we get Chin and Reck back we will have a few shocks in us by the end of the year. I expect that to start on Saturday v Antrim, the boys are forewarned by Antrims performance v Dublin. Hard to know what Antrim we will see away from home. Will they be galvanised by last week or will they be deflated that they didn't finish the job. Anyway a real 6 pointer in Wexford Park which i think Wexford will handle - WEXFORD" I only agree with one of your predictions. Limerick to beat Clare by a point or two. It should be blood-warming stuff between them. I think KK will take Galway by 5-6 points. Cork should be raring for road as it's so long since their league semi-final loss, and will be very fresh. Last Sunday's effort will, I believe, have taken a lot out of Waterford. That loss could have them deflated a bit, so I think Cork will prevail. Hope I'm wrong as I'd prefer to see Waterford win it. Cork ate at home too which should help them. I think the draw will between Wexford and Antrim. I can see Antrim streaming ahead, only for Wexford with the last puck of the game, grabbing an equalizer. I like both counties so I've no real preference as regards which side I'd like to see win it.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2635 - 27/04/2023 16:46:29
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Scientific paper recommends heavier punishment for hits to head in hurling
It also found impacts to the lateral (side) of the head were 2.7 times more likely to result in visible signs of concussion
A 2023 study into concussion in elite hurling has recommended the GAA take more stringent action against "blind side" hits to the head.
The paper, which was published in the "Irish Journal of Medical Science", proposed heavier sanctions for the dangerous fouls. It also found impacts to the lateral (side) of the head were 2.7 times more likely to result in visible signs of concussion than those to the anteroposterior areas (front and back).
Analysing 82 inter-county hurling games across 2018 and '19, 183 potential concussion events (PCEs) were identified by author Mario Rotundo of Ulster University. Shoulder-to-head impacts produced "visible signs of concussion" in 14 of 37 such cases (37.8%), head-to-head impacts in eight of 23 cases (34.8%) and three of 35 hurley to head cases (8.6%).
Rotundo's study concludes "players appear to be at a higher risk of SRC (sport-related concussions) later in the match or when receiving the sliotar." It adds: "Strikes to the lateral aspect of the head and those involving the shoulder appear to produce severe events. These findings provide initial guidance for the development of targeted player protection strategies."
One of them is to hand down heavy sanctions for the blind blows, when the receiving player has a poor view of the imminent challenge or is not able to anticipate it. "The league (GAA) might consider implementing more severe penalties, especially for "blind-side" hits to the lateral aspect of the head, to encourage players to be more deliberate with their tackles."
Players, coaches and referees all have a part to play, the study advises. "Players should be taught from an early age that hits to the head, especially from the side on an unsuspecting opponent, can cause severe brain injury.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41126191.html
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 27/04/2023 17:08:34
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Replying To baire: "Scientific paper recommends heavier punishment for hits to head in hurling
It also found impacts to the lateral (side) of the head were 2.7 times more likely to result in visible signs of concussion
A 2023 study into concussion in elite hurling has recommended the GAA take more stringent action against "blind side" hits to the head.
The paper, which was published in the "Irish Journal of Medical Science", proposed heavier sanctions for the dangerous fouls. It also found impacts to the lateral (side) of the head were 2.7 times more likely to result in visible signs of concussion than those to the anteroposterior areas (front and back).
Analysing 82 inter-county hurling games across 2018 and '19, 183 potential concussion events (PCEs) were identified by author Mario Rotundo of Ulster University. Shoulder-to-head impacts produced "visible signs of concussion" in 14 of 37 such cases (37.8%), head-to-head impacts in eight of 23 cases (34.8%) and three of 35 hurley to head cases (8.6%).
Rotundo's study concludes "players appear to be at a higher risk of SRC (sport-related concussions) later in the match or when receiving the sliotar." It adds: "Strikes to the lateral aspect of the head and those involving the shoulder appear to produce severe events. These findings provide initial guidance for the development of targeted player protection strategies."
One of them is to hand down heavy sanctions for the blind blows, when the receiving player has a poor view of the imminent challenge or is not able to anticipate it. "The league (GAA) might consider implementing more severe penalties, especially for "blind-side" hits to the lateral aspect of the head, to encourage players to be more deliberate with their tackles."
Players, coaches and referees all have a part to play, the study advises. "Players should be taught from an early age that hits to the head, especially from the side on an unsuspecting opponent, can cause severe brain injury.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41126191.html" If you're referring to the Flanagan incident it was in fact reviewed by the CCCC contrary to the article in the Irish Times and it wasn't deemed a red card offense and correctly so due to im guessing some of the factors I explained If you're looking for examples of head collisions that should be used in conjunction with this article the two that stand out to me are Shane Kingston on sean finn and ronan maher on Peter casey. Forgive my examples but as a limerick man they're are the ones i remember. I know all about the effects of head collisions, repetitive concussion, neurological symptoms due to sports injury and trauma. People do forget helmets were initially brought in to protect eyes and teeth. Like rugby they wont do anything to help the shaking traumatic nature of the head collision accidental or not on the brain. They must take action here but there is mitigation in many incidents like the Flanagan one where intent was not there and thus suspension is not required. Rugby have gone down a very necessary but mucky road on head collisions due to the NFL legal case with retrospective CTE diagnosid. The rugby authorities are trying to save their sport as a whole but a lot of red cards are being given that look like accidental collisions to me. They cant absorb the same financial outlay the NFL could previuosly. Where does hurling want to land? In essence these collisions are 99.9% accidents and are inevitable. It's a hugely contact sport but unlike rugby there isn't a fraction of the head collisions so the issue can be monitored without ruining the game. I do feel as someone who knows a fair bit around the area that a more robust concussion protocol should be enforced at the next convention. The doctors that with inter County teams are all very well researched on concussion and monitoring but a more mandatory pathway would be the way forward for me.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 28/04/2023 11:41:45
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Maybe i wasn't mad when i was suggesting Hegarty could be left off!!!!
LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 28/04/2023 12:37:53
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "Maybe i wasn't mad when i was suggesting Hegarty could be left off!!!!" You were bang on. I felt he might have started Hegarty but o neill when you look at it deserves the jersey Saturday. Id say kiely was more upset with the first yellow which was completely avoidable than the second. Nice option off the bench all the same.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 28/04/2023 13:58:23
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Replying To daveboy: "If you're referring to the Flanagan incident it was in fact reviewed by the CCCC contrary to the article in the Irish Times and it wasn't deemed a red card offense and correctly so due to im guessing some of the factors I explained If you're looking for examples of head collisions that should be used in conjunction with this article the two that stand out to me are Shane Kingston on sean finn and ronan maher on Peter casey. Forgive my examples but as a limerick man they're are the ones i remember. I know all about the effects of head collisions, repetitive concussion, neurological symptoms due to sports injury and trauma. People do forget helmets were initially brought in to protect eyes and teeth. Like rugby they wont do anything to help the shaking traumatic nature of the head collision accidental or not on the brain. They must take action here but there is mitigation in many incidents like the Flanagan one where intent was not there and thus suspension is not required. Rugby have gone down a very necessary but mucky road on head collisions due to the NFL legal case with retrospective CTE diagnosid. The rugby authorities are trying to save their sport as a whole but a lot of red cards are being given that look like accidental collisions to me. They cant absorb the same financial outlay the NFL could previuosly. Where does hurling want to land? In essence these collisions are 99.9% accidents and are inevitable. It's a hugely contact sport but unlike rugby there isn't a fraction of the head collisions so the issue can be monitored without ruining the game. I do feel as someone who knows a fair bit around the area that a more robust concussion protocol should be enforced at the next convention. The doctors that with inter County teams are all very well researched on concussion and monitoring but a more mandatory pathway would be the way forward for me." I made no comment on the report. I just copied and pasted the main points.
baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 28/04/2023 16:28:36
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I'd be expecting changes on a few teams for weekend.some big names from all counties not playing..
CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2715 - 28/04/2023 17:20:50
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "Maybe i wasn't mad when i was suggesting Hegarty could be left off!!!!" Hegartys form hasn't been great so far this year, first league game aside while O'Neill has been very good. It's no surprise to me looking at form and maybe last weeks incident convinced Kiely. Hegarty gets a chance now to come off the bench probably tomorrow and make a fresh start, it's hopefully a long championship ahead for him.
updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 963 - 28/04/2023 18:04:42
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Replying To baire: "I made no comment on the report. I just copied and pasted the main points." The accompanying photo of the report that was in the Irish examiner was of the Flanagan incident with bennett on the ground which to me was of poor taste. If that wasn't your intention that's fair enough. It's an important report but it should be published with a broader intention.
daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 29/04/2023 11:09:19
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Good win for Offaly against Galway in under 20 Leinster qf. Wexford won the other but not sure what way the draw for semi final works now.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4550 - 29/04/2023 14:36:50
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Delighted for Clare...by far the better team and should have won by more!
Now Waterford and Galway to win tomorrow for my triple!!
katser (Galway) - Posts: 2943 - 29/04/2023 20:39:45
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Difficult to talk as my heart is still in my mouth. We really make it hard on ourselves.
Being honest didnt see this performance coming against that outstanding Limerick team. I may have safron and blue glasses on but I felt we deserved the win.
Buachaillbui (Clare) - Posts: 136 - 29/04/2023 21:04:12
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