National Forum

2021 Rankings So Far

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Donegal played Tyrone and Armagh..... 2 Division 1 teams. Pretty sure Armagh made light work of Roscommon this year. Galway were lucky to not have played them as well."
Armagh were division 2 last year when Roscommon also beat them handy.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 28/06/2021 14:23:20    2354173

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Use your head man. You are deliberately missing the point. You are saying that Mayo are in a different league than Donegal. My point is how can you put them in a different league? Yes Donegal have fallen at unexpected hurdles the last two years (1 against Cavan and 1 against Mayo). But it's crazy to suggest that Mayo have been miles ahead of Donegal the last two years. In 2019, Mayo lost 2 games in the Championship and Donegal lost 1 and drew with eventual AI finalists, Kerry, that year. Yes, Mayo beat Donegal in a shootout in which Donegal played their worst game of the year but that's football I suppose. In 2020, Mayo played Tipp to earn a spot in the AI final whereas Donegal slipped up against Cavan in a 1 in 100 game for Cavan. Donegal maintained Division 1 status and Mayo lost Division 1 status. In 2021, Donegal maintained division 1 status by remaining unbeaten (Exception of the semi final) and Mayo were promoted back to Division 1 by playing minnows such as Meath, Westmeath, Clare etc. Based off those analysis, I wouldn't be rushing to put Mayo miles ahead or a league above Donegal."
Hang on a minute. To clarify I have not said Mayo are currently miles ahead of Donegal or Tyrone. I believe you're making reference to my previous post where I was referring to the period prior to this when Mayo were the only legitimate challengers to Dublin. (they were miles in those years)

At the current time, taking both only the recent league and championship performances into account Mayo are ahead of Donegal and Tyrone. The final positions and head to head games back that up whether you like it or not unfortunately.

You're right they are by no means miles ahead or in a different league currently but they are ahead none the less

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 28/06/2021 14:24:24    2354174

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Replying To Offtheball10:  "Both would beat Cavan in a championship game as would Mayo."
I would be inclined to agree with your statement in a typical season.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 14:25:50    2354175

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Replying To Pericles:  "Rankings have to be based on past results: how far a team progressed in the championship plus how they did against the Dubs and other teams regarded as contenders. In terms of rankings Mayo deserve to be up there, but prospects are a different thing and I wouldn't put Mayo's 2021 prospects ahead of Donegal, Tyrone, Galway or Monaghan. The Dubs are out on their own and Kerry look to have more potential this year to deny the Dubs another AI. Things might pan out differently like they did last year but we still ended up with the same No 1."
At the end of the day there are probably 4 teams in Ireland capable of beating Dublin on a good day and that's Mayo, Donegal, Kerry and Tyrone. All 4 teams are as talented as each other and I think it's difficult to distinguish who is better or not. Last years championship can't dictate this years rankings. If that was the case then if you are not rating Donegal then how can you rate Kerry? Mayo have quite a different team since 2019. A lot of people think we have a gripe with Mayo but Mayo are probably everyones second favorite team but as McGo said there has to be some kind of rationale involved when it comes to rating teams. In 2014, Dublin were "unbeatable" and probably could have been out of sight against Donegal in the first 20 mins but a goal turned Donegals fortunes and Dublin panicked. The same thing can happen this year again. It's all about 15 talented men playing out of their skin on any God given day.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 14:28:07    2354177

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Armagh were division 2 last year when Roscommon also beat them handy."
Shows the improvement of the Ulster teams then so. Mayo should have it easy this years again in Connaught.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 14:29:37    2354178

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Replying To Offtheball10:  "Hang on a minute. To clarify I have not said Mayo are currently miles ahead of Donegal or Tyrone. I believe you're making reference to my previous post where I was referring to the period prior to this when Mayo were the only legitimate challengers to Dublin. (they were miles in those years)

At the current time, taking both only the recent league and championship performances into account Mayo are ahead of Donegal and Tyrone. The final positions and head to head games back that up whether you like it or not unfortunately.

You're right they are by no means miles ahead or in a different league currently but they are ahead none the less"
In 2019 you said they were miles ahead.

Current time - Mayo are a "transitioning" team since the end of 2019 and are in Division 2 and hammered a Sligo team. Donegal are in Division 1 and beat Tyrone, drew with Armagh and Monaghan and lost by 4 points to Dublin with virtually half a team. And they hammered Down, a Division 2 team.

In 2020, Mayo were relegated from Division 1. Donegal maintained Division 1 status. In the Championship, Donegal played 3 games and beat Armagh and Tyrone and lost to Cavan. Mayo played 3 games and beat Roscommon, Galway and Tipp to reach an AI final where they never looked like winning...ever.

So in the current time based off Championship and league performances I don't see how you can put Mayo ahead of Donegal. Yes, they made an AI final last year but in extraordinary times and let's be honest played noone of note to get there.

In 2018, Tyrone made an AI final. In 2019, they made an AI semi final. Only for Donegal in 2020 they might have made an AI semi final too. So, you could argue that they are even ahead of Mayo.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 14:39:47    2354184

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Armagh were division 2 last year when Roscommon also beat them handy."
Armagh have vastly improved from last year, don't rule them out for Ulster

bobo91 (Monaghan) - Posts: 16 - 28/06/2021 14:44:21    2354186

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Replying To Pericles:  "Rankings have to be based on past results: how far a team progressed in the championship plus how they did against the Dubs and other teams regarded as contenders. In terms of rankings Mayo deserve to be up there, but prospects are a different thing and I wouldn't put Mayo's 2021 prospects ahead of Donegal, Tyrone, Galway or Monaghan. The Dubs are out on their own and Kerry look to have more potential this year to deny the Dubs another AI. Things might pan out differently like they did last year but we still ended up with the same No 1."
Partly agree, Mayo don't have control over who they play and can only play/beat what is put in front of them. However, do Mayo deserve to be up there? No. Why? They won Connacht for the first time since 2015 last year. They were beaten by teams at the same or at a lower level to them. One of the other major issues I have with Mayo placing themselves in the top 3 is quite simple...The title of this thread is "2021 Rankings So far" and Mayo fans have somehow placed themselves in the top 3 teams when they haven't even played a single top 8 team this season.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 14:49:54    2354191

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Armagh were division 2 last year when Roscommon also beat them handy."
I vaguely remember Armagh having COVID cases in their squad before their match with Roscommon and didn't get much of an opportunity to train.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 14:52:18    2354193

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the only rankings that make sense are the league rankings. no one should be ranking teams based on straight knockout competitions.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5445 - 28/06/2021 14:52:22    2354194

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Shows the improvement of the Ulster teams then so. Mayo should have it easy this years again in Connaught."
The point is Donegal beating Armagh last year was no great achievement.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 28/06/2021 14:57:04    2354198

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Replying To MayoDan:  "The point is Donegal beating Armagh last year was no great achievement."
Either was beating Roscommon, Galway and Tipp yet it got you to an AI final. So now if you think logically you will realise that Mayo don't deserve to be in toss up with Kerry on who is the second best team and completely disregarding Tyrone and Donegal, especially after the fact that they played this years league in Division 1 while Mayo played in Division 2. McGo knocks the nail on the head when he says the title of the thread is 2021 Rankings SO FAR.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 15:02:26    2354202

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Replying To MayoDan:  "The point is Donegal beating Armagh last year was no great achievement."
Didn't Armagh almost knock you out of the qualifiers in 2019? If they were in D1 that year it would have been bye bye Mayo.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 15:04:48    2354205

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Either was beating Roscommon, Galway and Tipp yet it got you to an AI final. So now if you think logically you will realise that Mayo don't deserve to be in toss up with Kerry on who is the second best team and completely disregarding Tyrone and Donegal, especially after the fact that they played this years league in Division 1 while Mayo played in Division 2. McGo knocks the nail on the head when he says the title of the thread is 2021 Rankings SO FAR."
Fair enough. Paddy Power disagrees with you though.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 28/06/2021 15:05:28    2354206

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Replying To McGo72:  "Didn't Armagh almost knock you out of the qualifiers in 2019? If they were in D1 that year it would have been bye bye Mayo."
But they weren't in division 1 as they weren't good enough. What's your point?

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 28/06/2021 15:14:52    2354211

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Replying To MayoDan:  "But they weren't in division 1 as they weren't good enough. What's your point?"
They weren't good enough for D1 yet you struggled against them but still think you are at the same level as Dublin and Kerry...

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 15:22:02    2354212

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Fair enough. Paddy Power disagrees with you though."
Well, Paddy Power do agree. Kerry are 9/4 and Mayo are 12/1. I would hardly say that's a toss up for second favorites. Donegal are 16/1. That's hardly disregarding Donegal when you take into account Mayo are 12/1. Not sure what your point is here when saying PaddyPower disagrees with me because the way I see it is he agrees with me. He's putting Mayo, Donegal and Tyrone in a somewhat equal market.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 15:28:05    2354215

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Replying To McGo72:  "They weren't good enough for D1 yet you struggled against them but still think you are at the same level as Dublin and Kerry..."
Cavan weren't good enough for division 3 last year and Donegal actually lost to them, not just "struggled".

I don't think anyone said we're the same level as Dublin...

Kerry are number 2 alright but I'd fancy our chances if we got them in croke park. Not having Cillian O'Connor is a big blow for us however.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 28/06/2021 15:30:36    2354218

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Replying To Offtheball10:  "Hang on a minute. To clarify I have not said Mayo are currently miles ahead of Donegal or Tyrone. I believe you're making reference to my previous post where I was referring to the period prior to this when Mayo were the only legitimate challengers to Dublin. (they were miles in those years)

At the current time, taking both only the recent league and championship performances into account Mayo are ahead of Donegal and Tyrone. The final positions and head to head games back that up whether you like it or not unfortunately.

You're right they are by no means miles ahead or in a different league currently but they are ahead none the less"
Replying To MurphBalls: "Mayo on a higher tier than Donegal and Tyrone haha. Now that is comical!"

They 100% are at the moment.

Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time.

In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way.

In 2020 Mayo got to the all ireland final, Donegal and Tyrone on the other hand......

if you go back to the years prior to this Mayo were miles ahead of them both.

I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently.

The only thing is the injury of Cillian O'Connor, which is a huge loss, but Donegal will suffer without Murphy also.
Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 28/06/2021 12:06:43

I have noticed you have used only the last two years to benefit the point you are making which is quite shocking to be honest because you can't even reason with yourself well enough. Bare with me I will pick your argument apart from here ...

"Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time." Other than win Ulster championships and appear in an All Ireland in 2018. OK so you initial statement is complete nonsense. Between them they have done more than Mayo. If you want to try again and go back further over a period of 5 years you will find you are still wrong.

"In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way." Mayo were eliminated from Connacht by a team just relegated from division 1 who only won one match in the league. They were then soundly beaten by both Kerry and Dublin.

"I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently." I would say Mayo are below Donegal and Tyrone at present because Mayo were relegated last year and they have not beaten anyone to note this year. I do believe there is a strong possibility that either Galway or Roscommon could beat Mayo in Connacht who were not good enough for D1 and as much as I don't rate Armagh they went through Roscommon like they never existed.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 15:39:33    2354224

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Well, Paddy Power do agree. Kerry are 9/4 and Mayo are 12/1. I would hardly say that's a toss up for second favorites. Donegal are 16/1. That's hardly disregarding Donegal when you take into account Mayo are 12/1. Not sure what your point is here when saying PaddyPower disagrees with me because the way I see it is he agrees with me. He's putting Mayo, Donegal and Tyrone in a somewhat equal market."
Somewhat equal, but a clear order all the same.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 28/06/2021 15:45:36    2354228

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