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2021 Rankings So Far

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When was the last time an Ulster team defeated Dublin, Mayo or Kerry in the championship? There has been loads of examples the other way round in recent seasons.

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 28/06/2021 19:21:23    2354323

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Replying To facer4home:  "Rule out Cavan at your peril, Mickey Graham doesent give a flying duck about the league, it's all about the championship ladies. Ok We are heading for Div 4 but coming in under the radar for the Ulster championship, ambush territory once again. Lock n load, Cmon the Breifne !!"
I'm afraid not this time sir. To lose to Derry, Fermanagh and Wicklow in last two months simply not good enough. Expect a poor Tyrone team to win by 8 plus points. Remember with the new arrangement, Cavan could be a tier two team beyond 2023. I'm sure Mickey Graham does care about this and if he doesn't, he certainly should.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 305 - 28/06/2021 19:40:02    2354329

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If the winners of Connacht/Munster had to play a play off to qualify for the All-Ireland series against the runners up in Ulster/Leinster to qualify for the All-Ireland series, Mayo would only reach the business end every 2/3 years but this is the equivelant of what Donegal/Tyrone/Monaghan have to do every year.

The idea that Donegal have to beat Down/Derry/Tyrone/Monaghan just to get to the All-Ireland series while every year Mayo only have 1 maybe 2 competive matches to reach the same stage skews how good Mayo are in peoples minds.

Anyway it doesnt really matter, it will be Dublin or Kerry who wins this year.

Ronan1989 (Donegal) - Posts: 58 - 28/06/2021 20:30:22    2354348

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Replying To Ronan1989:  "If the winners of Connacht/Munster had to play a play off to qualify for the All-Ireland series against the runners up in Ulster/Leinster to qualify for the All-Ireland series, Mayo would only reach the business end every 2/3 years but this is the equivelant of what Donegal/Tyrone/Monaghan have to do every year.

The idea that Donegal have to beat Down/Derry/Tyrone/Monaghan just to get to the All-Ireland series while every year Mayo only have 1 maybe 2 competive matches to reach the same stage skews how good Mayo are in peoples minds.

Anyway it doesnt really matter, it will be Dublin or Kerry who wins this year."
What about when Mayo/Kerry do get to the business end compared to the Ulster teams or when the come up against each other?

What's the excuse then? They are tired I suppose

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 28/06/2021 21:25:40    2354376

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Replying To Ronan1989:  "If the winners of Connacht/Munster had to play a play off to qualify for the All-Ireland series against the runners up in Ulster/Leinster to qualify for the All-Ireland series, Mayo would only reach the business end every 2/3 years but this is the equivelant of what Donegal/Tyrone/Monaghan have to do every year.

The idea that Donegal have to beat Down/Derry/Tyrone/Monaghan just to get to the All-Ireland series while every year Mayo only have 1 maybe 2 competive matches to reach the same stage skews how good Mayo are in peoples minds.

Anyway it doesnt really matter, it will be Dublin or Kerry who wins this year."
Why pick out Mayo? Connacht isn't even the least competitive provincial chanpionhship. You say Mayo's "easy" run skews people's view of us. Well we went thru the back door a few times playing multiple tough games all the way to finals.

Does the "easy" runs put a mark beside all those All Ireland's Kerry won in the past? Dublins recent decade of successes often invoked only one or two competitive games. Galway hurlers for years only had to win two games to win an all Ireland but was seen as a hindernace.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10796 - 28/06/2021 21:30:34    2354377

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Replying To Ronan1989:  "If the winners of Connacht/Munster had to play a play off to qualify for the All-Ireland series against the runners up in Ulster/Leinster to qualify for the All-Ireland series, Mayo would only reach the business end every 2/3 years but this is the equivelant of what Donegal/Tyrone/Monaghan have to do every year.

The idea that Donegal have to beat Down/Derry/Tyrone/Monaghan just to get to the All-Ireland series while every year Mayo only have 1 maybe 2 competive matches to reach the same stage skews how good Mayo are in peoples minds.

Anyway it doesnt really matter, it will be Dublin or Kerry who wins this year."
The quality in ulster is massively overrated. Since Donegal beat Dublin in 2014, no ulster side has had a significant win outside the province.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 28/06/2021 21:35:19    2354379

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Replying To MayoDan:  "The quality in ulster is massively overrated. Since Donegal beat Dublin in 2014, no ulster side has had a significant win outside the province."
How many div 1 teams are Ulster teams then?

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1735 - 28/06/2021 22:18:35    2354388

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Replying To McGo72:  "Replying To MurphBalls: "Mayo on a higher tier than Donegal and Tyrone haha. Now that is comical!"

They 100% are at the moment.

Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time.

In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way.

In 2020 Mayo got to the all ireland final, Donegal and Tyrone on the other hand......

if you go back to the years prior to this Mayo were miles ahead of them both.

I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently.

The only thing is the injury of Cillian O'Connor, which is a huge loss, but Donegal will suffer without Murphy also.
Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 28/06/2021 12:06:43

I have noticed you have used only the last two years to benefit the point you are making which is quite shocking to be honest because you can't even reason with yourself well enough. Bare with me I will pick your argument apart from here ...

"Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time." Other than win Ulster championships and appear in an All Ireland in 2018. OK so you initial statement is complete nonsense. Between them they have done more than Mayo. If you want to try again and go back further over a period of 5 years you will find you are still wrong.

"In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way." Mayo were eliminated from Connacht by a team just relegated from division 1 who only won one match in the league. They were then soundly beaten by both Kerry and Dublin.

"I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently." I would say Mayo are below Donegal and Tyrone at present because Mayo were relegated last year and they have not beaten anyone to note this year. I do believe there is a strong possibility that either Galway or Roscommon could beat Mayo in Connacht who were not good enough for D1 and as much as I don't rate Armagh they went through Roscommon like they never existed."
'Between them they have done more than Mayo. If you want to try again and go back further over a period of 5 years you will find you are still wrong.'

Is this poster an actual troll? lmao

nicko94 (Mayo) - Posts: 53 - 28/06/2021 22:51:31    2354396

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If you are to actually rank teams without a Mayo or Donegal bias you have to account for last years league AND championship as a start point before applying results in 2021 to give a ranking

That puts you with
Rank 1 - Dublin
Rank 2 - Mayo/Kerry
Rank 3 - Donegal/Tyrone/Galway/Monaghan
Rank 4 - Meath/Cork/Kildare/Roscommon/Armagh
Rank 5 - Cavan/Tipp/Clare/Derry/Offaly/Down/Limerick/Westmeath
Rank 6 - Laois/Longford/Fermanagh/Antrim/Louth
Rank 7 - Wicklow/Wexford/Carlow
Rank 8 - Sligo/Leitrim/Waterford/

If you were to rank those today it would be:
1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Donegal
5. Tyrone
6. Monaghan
7. Galway
8. Armagh
9. Kildare
10. Meath
11. Roscommon
12. Cork
13. Derry
14. Clare
15. Offaly
16. Westmeath
17. Down
18. Limerick
19. Cavan
20. Tipp
21. Antrim
22. Louth
23. Laois
24. Longford
25. Fermanagh
26. Wexford
27. Wicklow
28. Carlow
29. Sligo
30. Waterford
31. Leitrim

Not much between 9-14 and 15-25

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 869 - 29/06/2021 02:50:35    2354436

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Replying To MayoDan:  "The quality in ulster is massively overrated. Since Donegal beat Dublin in 2014, no ulster side has had a significant win outside the province."
Neither have Mayo since 1951

bobo91 (Monaghan) - Posts: 16 - 29/06/2021 09:10:12    2354458

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Replying To MayoDan:  "The quality in ulster is massively overrated. Since Donegal beat Dublin in 2014, no ulster side has had a significant win outside the province."
Wow. Flaker get your boys under control. What a statement to come out with. Leinster have Dublin. Munster have Kerry. Connaught have Mayo and Ulster have Donegal, Tyrone, Monaghan, and Armagh.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 29/06/2021 09:38:55    2354462

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Wow. Flaker get your boys under control. What a statement to come out with. Leinster have Dublin. Munster have Kerry. Connaught have Mayo and Ulster have Donegal, Tyrone, Monaghan, and Armagh."
When have Donegal, Armagh, Tyrone or Monaghan beaten Dublin, Kerry or Mayo in a big game ?.

jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 155 - 29/06/2021 09:45:10    2354467

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Wow. Flaker get your boys under control. What a statement to come out with. Leinster have Dublin. Munster have Kerry. Connaught have Mayo and Ulster have Donegal, Tyrone, Monaghan, and Armagh."
Armagh I see are suddenly one of the big boys? Listen Ulster is the most competitive but I would argue Galway and Roscommon are in the same ball park as Monaghan and Tyrone. And the point he is making is that Ulster teams are making no impact outside of the province. If all of these teams were at a high level they would be contesting semis and finals fairly often I would have thought.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 29/06/2021 10:22:17    2354477

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Replying To jacktheboy:  "When have Donegal, Armagh, Tyrone or Monaghan beaten Dublin, Kerry or Mayo in a big game ?."
Not for a long long long time.

But Donegal and Tyrone are supposedly ahead of Mayo just because they are from Ulster. Regardless of how they actually perform outside of it.

Mind boggling.

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 29/06/2021 10:27:27    2354479

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Armagh I see are suddenly one of the big boys? Listen Ulster is the most competitive but I would argue Galway and Roscommon are in the same ball park as Monaghan and Tyrone. And the point he is making is that Ulster teams are making no impact outside of the province. If all of these teams were at a high level they would be contesting semis and finals fairly often I would have thought."
Disregard Jack. He's clearly only here to make friends by kissing ****.

Are they not contesting finals and semi finals recently? Tyrone made the semi final in 2019 and the final in 2018. Monaghan also made a semi final in 2018 by beating Kerry to get there. Armagh have to be regarded as a big boy now. They drew with Donegal and beat Monaghan and debatably should have beat Tyrone. They hockeyed roscommon. So yes, I would see them as a top 6/7 team in Ireland.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 29/06/2021 10:27:39    2354480

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Armagh I see are suddenly one of the big boys? Listen Ulster is the most competitive but I would argue Galway and Roscommon are in the same ball park as Monaghan and Tyrone. And the point he is making is that Ulster teams are making no impact outside of the province. If all of these teams were at a high level they would be contesting semis and finals fairly often I would have thought."
Ulster is highly competitive. There top teams still haven't been doing as well as the other provinces top teams once outside the provincials though.

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 29/06/2021 10:29:26    2354481

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Disregard Jack. He's clearly only here to make friends by kissing ****.

Are they not contesting finals and semi finals recently? Tyrone made the semi final in 2019 and the final in 2018. Monaghan also made a semi final in 2018 by beating Kerry to get there. Armagh have to be regarded as a big boy now. They drew with Donegal and beat Monaghan and debatably should have beat Tyrone. They hockeyed roscommon. So yes, I would see them as a top 6/7 team in Ireland."
Grand. Let's use your logic then. Kerry hammered Tyrone so therefore Tyrone can't be considered near the top. So one Ulster team made a final in 7 years? Thanks for clarifying that. I love the way you place massive importance on certain league games. Mayo just about survived relegation most years for the last 10 years but were still getting to finals beating Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal etc on the way. Picking out certain league games is hardly proof of where exactly a team are at.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 29/06/2021 10:38:16    2354486

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Replying To Offtheball10:  "Ulster is highly competitive. There top teams still haven't been doing as well as the other provinces top teams once outside the provincials though."
How do you come up with that logic? As well as other provinces? Outside of Ulster each province has one good team - Kerry, Dublin, and Mayo. The chances are these teams are going to get to semi finals more often than one individual Ulster team. As a collective Ulster has done better than any other province probably since Cork were good. Which was the early 2010s. When was the last time Connaught won an AI? Was it Galway in 2001. Kerry have made one final appearance since 2014. Yes, Mayo have been number 2 in Ireland all through out the 2010s and I mentioned that earlier in a post but the title of the thread is 2021 Rankings so far and going back to the initial point in saying that Mayo hardly deserve to be ahead of Donegal and Tyrone because they beat the likes of Westmeath and Clare. I agreed that if Mayo and Donegal played it would be a 50-50 game but the consensus here is that Mayo and Kerry are a league ahead of Donegal and Kerry to which I must disagree. If you use logic to define it you will soon agree as well. Since the end of 2019 Mayo have been described as a team in transition. Yes, they made a final last year but they played 2 teams in Connaught and a poor Tipp team to get there. You can't just act blind to that fact alone and say yes Mayo are ahead of Donegal/Tyrone. How can anyone actually say that.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 29/06/2021 10:38:53    2354487

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Disregard Jack. He's clearly only here to make friends by kissing ****.

Are they not contesting finals and semi finals recently? Tyrone made the semi final in 2019 and the final in 2018. Monaghan also made a semi final in 2018 by beating Kerry to get there. Armagh have to be regarded as a big boy now. They drew with Donegal and beat Monaghan and debatably should have beat Tyrone. They hockeyed roscommon. So yes, I would see them as a top 6/7 team in Ireland."
Tyrone made the 2018 final by beating Donegal in super 8s and Monaghan in the semi final. Monaghan did not beat Kerry, it was a draw. They did beat a Galway side who were already qualified.

The jury is still out on Armagh. They've a terrible championship record in recent years.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 29/06/2021 10:40:50    2354490

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "How many div 1 teams are Ulster teams then?"
Well Galway and Roscommon were division 1 until recently, yet according to some Mayo had an easy run to the final in 2020

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 29/06/2021 10:46:03    2354496

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