National Forum

2021 Rankings So Far

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Cavan weren't good enough for division 3 last year and Donegal actually lost to them, not just "struggled".

I don't think anyone said we're the same level as Dublin...

Kerry are number 2 alright but I'd fancy our chances if we got them in croke park. Not having Cillian O'Connor is a big blow for us however."
The point of the thread is Dublin and Kerry beat Roscommon and Galway so did Armagh and to a lesser extent Monaghan. Monaghan and Armagh kept in touch with Donegal and Tyrone in their league games so for me they deserve their places.

Mayo didn't play anyone in the top division and have only beat teams that are at a lower level than themselves so for me shouldn't be in the top 5 for 2021 so far. That will probably change later on in the championship if they get to the last four. Even if they beat Roscommon or Galway they won't get into my top 5 rankings because...you have guessed it, they have not beat a top 5 team of 2021.

As I have said before, I have nothing against Mayo and I am going off this season only. If we go off last season then people will make arguments for the season before and it is never ending.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 15:56:08    2354229

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Somewhat equal, but a clear order all the same."
The argument that was presented was Mayo and Kerry can't be separated for the number 2 spot. these two teams were categorised as tier 2 teams. Donegal and Tyrone were categorised as tier 3 teams. What are you saying then? Mayo are categorised as tier 3 and Donegal/Tyrone are tier 4? There is a clear order yes but going back to the initial point raised Paddypower completely rejects and disagrees with it. So your argument on Paddypower is completely invalid.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 16:01:47    2354231

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Replying To MayoDan:  "Somewhat equal, but a clear order all the same."
Or perhaps it is a reflection on how difficult the route is for each team to get through their respective provinces.



Mayo play against arguably two of the worst teams in Ireland and then one D2 team.

Donegal on the other hand will have to play Down, Derry (both D2 teams), Tyrone (D1) or Cavan (D4/Ulster champions) and possibly Monaghan/Armagh (Both D1 teams).

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 16:11:34    2354236

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It's notable there are no Dubs supporters getting involved in this topic and not much interest from Kerry either. It's like they're leaving the bald men to fight over the comb!

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2447 - 28/06/2021 16:13:58    2354238

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Replying To McGo72:  "Replying To MurphBalls: "Mayo on a higher tier than Donegal and Tyrone haha. Now that is comical!"

They 100% are at the moment.

Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time.

In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way.

In 2020 Mayo got to the all ireland final, Donegal and Tyrone on the other hand......

if you go back to the years prior to this Mayo were miles ahead of them both.

I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently.

The only thing is the injury of Cillian O'Connor, which is a huge loss, but Donegal will suffer without Murphy also.
Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 28/06/2021 12:06:43

I have noticed you have used only the last two years to benefit the point you are making which is quite shocking to be honest because you can't even reason with yourself well enough. Bare with me I will pick your argument apart from here ...

"Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time." Other than win Ulster championships and appear in an All Ireland in 2018. OK so you initial statement is complete nonsense. Between them they have done more than Mayo. If you want to try again and go back further over a period of 5 years you will find you are still wrong.

"In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way." Mayo were eliminated from Connacht by a team just relegated from division 1 who only won one match in the league. They were then soundly beaten by both Kerry and Dublin.

"I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently." I would say Mayo are below Donegal and Tyrone at present because Mayo were relegated last year and they have not beaten anyone to note this year. I do believe there is a strong possibility that either Galway or Roscommon could beat Mayo in Connacht who were not good enough for D1 and as much as I don't rate Armagh they went through Roscommon like they never existed."
ah lads, It's as clear as day that the Donegal boys have a real gripe with Mayo.

You're comment about only using the last two years to support my argument is madness, as if anything Mayo were a lot better than they are currently in the years previous to 2019 (Bar 2018 Newbridge or Nowhere).

You're dead right there is a huge possibility Galway or Roscommon (not so much) could defeat Mayo in this years championship. Just as Donegal or Tyrone could very well be defeated in ulster. The only certainties should be Dublin in Leinster and Kerry in Munster.

Final word on it for now is that from a neutral point of view, write Mayo off at your peril....... Note Tyrone 2016, Kerry 2017, Donegal 2019, Galway 2020.

Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 28/06/2021 16:16:32    2354241

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Replying To Offtheball10:  "
Replying To McGo72:  "Replying To MurphBalls: "Mayo on a higher tier than Donegal and Tyrone haha. Now that is comical!"

They 100% are at the moment.

Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time.

In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way.

In 2020 Mayo got to the all ireland final, Donegal and Tyrone on the other hand......

if you go back to the years prior to this Mayo were miles ahead of them both.

I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently.

The only thing is the injury of Cillian O'Connor, which is a huge loss, but Donegal will suffer without Murphy also.
Offtheball10 (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 28/06/2021 12:06:43

I have noticed you have used only the last two years to benefit the point you are making which is quite shocking to be honest because you can't even reason with yourself well enough. Bare with me I will pick your argument apart from here ...

"Donegal and Tyrone have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise to date for a long long time." Other than win Ulster championships and appear in an All Ireland in 2018. OK so you initial statement is complete nonsense. Between them they have done more than Mayo. If you want to try again and go back further over a period of 5 years you will find you are still wrong.

"In 2019 which was the most recent full season Mayo won the league and got to an all ireland semi final, comfortably beating Donegal in a straight knockout championship game along the way." Mayo were eliminated from Connacht by a team just relegated from division 1 who only won one match in the league. They were then soundly beaten by both Kerry and Dublin.

"I can't work out on what basis Donegal or Tyrone (even Kerry it could be argued) deserve to be ahead of Mayo currently." I would say Mayo are below Donegal and Tyrone at present because Mayo were relegated last year and they have not beaten anyone to note this year. I do believe there is a strong possibility that either Galway or Roscommon could beat Mayo in Connacht who were not good enough for D1 and as much as I don't rate Armagh they went through Roscommon like they never existed."
ah lads, It's as clear as day that the Donegal boys have a real gripe with Mayo.

You're comment about only using the last two years to support my argument is madness, as if anything Mayo were a lot better than they are currently in the years previous to 2019 (Bar 2018 Newbridge or Nowhere).

You're dead right there is a huge possibility Galway or Roscommon (not so much) could defeat Mayo in this years championship. Just as Donegal or Tyrone could very well be defeated in ulster. The only certainties should be Dublin in Leinster and Kerry in Munster.

Final word on it for now is that from a neutral point of view, write Mayo off at your peril....... Note Tyrone 2016, Kerry 2017, Donegal 2019, Galway 2020."
It's a logical argument we are presenting. Kerry are now a certainty are they? Donegal don't seem to be allowed to forget about last years capitulation but Kerry losing to Cork seems to be well forgotten and Kerry are now a certainty to win Munster. Noone is writing Mayo off. I think Mayo will win Connaught even without O'Connor. Mayo have a talented team but people putting them on a pedostle as if they have won a few AI's recently is completely madness. Again, if Donegal are eliminated then I'm shouting for Mayo all the way.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 16:28:32    2354246

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Replying To McGo72:  "Or perhaps it is a reflection on how difficult the route is for each team to get through their respective provinces.



Mayo play against arguably two of the worst teams in Ireland and then one D2 team.

Donegal on the other hand will have to play Down, Derry (both D2 teams), Tyrone (D1) or Cavan (D4/Ulster champions) and possibly Monaghan/Armagh (Both D1 teams)."
The absolute banter of naming Down and Derry as a big challenge. To a team meant to be in the top 4 you are trying to claim Down and Derry as a big challenge. And throwing Cavan in brackets as Ulster Champions.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 28/06/2021 16:35:25    2354251

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "The absolute banter of naming Down and Derry as a big challenge. To a team meant to be in the top 4 you are trying to claim Down and Derry as a big challenge. And throwing Cavan in brackets as Ulster Champions."
Where did he say they would be big challenges? He is just laying out the path that Donegal must take in contract to Mayo.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 16:40:16    2354254

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Where did he say they would be big challenges? He is just laying out the path that Donegal must take in contract to Mayo."
That's his whole point? Are you trying to tell me you didn't understand his point. Seriously the standard of posting here is gone to the dogs.

At this stage Donegal might beat Mayo if Murphy is fit and O Connor is out but jesus lads the posting from some of the Donegal men on here is comical.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 28/06/2021 16:51:26    2354256

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "The absolute banter of naming Down and Derry as a big challenge. To a team meant to be in the top 4 you are trying to claim Down and Derry as a big challenge. And throwing Cavan in brackets as Ulster Champions."
Is any of it a lie? No. Is it relevant? Yes. Cavan regardless of the division they are in are Ulster champions and I do not expect them to get past Tyrone but they like Derry are still in the Ulster championship.

From a bookies perspective Donegal are going to be behind Mayo on odds to win an AI as they not only have an extra game to play but the teams they play against are much better in quality than what Mayo have to face. Even if Down, Derry and Cavan were easily accounted for Donegal still have to play two Division one teams to get to an AI semi-final whereas Mayo don't even have to do that.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 16:52:22    2354257

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Rule out Cavan at your peril, Mickey Graham doesent give a flying duck about the league, it's all about the championship ladies. Ok We are heading for Div 4 but coming in under the radar for the Ulster championship, ambush territory once again. Lock n load, Cmon the Breifne !!

facer4home (Cavan) - Posts: 126 - 28/06/2021 17:01:00    2354260

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "That's his whole point? Are you trying to tell me you didn't understand his point. Seriously the standard of posting here is gone to the dogs.

At this stage Donegal might beat Mayo if Murphy is fit and O Connor is out but jesus lads the posting from some of the Donegal men on here is comical."
Tell you what...I will simplify this for you.

Do Donegal have to play more games than Mayo?

A simple answer of yes or no will be enough.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 17:09:12    2354265

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "That's his whole point? Are you trying to tell me you didn't understand his point. Seriously the standard of posting here is gone to the dogs.

At this stage Donegal might beat Mayo if Murphy is fit and O Connor is out but jesus lads the posting from some of the Donegal men on here is comical."
What are you even talking about? What's his whole point because it sounds like you are missing it. You along with other Mayo folk. Maybe it's the senile Mayo folk like Flaker that's turning this thread into a comedy arena saying that Mayo are a tier ahead of Donegal and Tyrone.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 28/06/2021 17:15:39    2354269

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Replying To facer4home:  "Rule out Cavan at your peril, Mickey Graham doesent give a flying duck about the league, it's all about the championship ladies. Ok We are heading for Div 4 but coming in under the radar for the Ulster championship, ambush territory once again. Lock n load, Cmon the Breifne !!"
There may be some truth in that assessment but I struggle to understand how a manager wouldn't perceive the league important - I certainly don't know how he wouldn't care that Cavan has gone from Division 1 to Division 4. But perhaps that's ok with supporters. It's an unusual strategy IMO.

P.Mckenna (Louth) - Posts: 72 - 28/06/2021 17:17:22    2354270

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Replying To McGo72:  "Are you lot on something?

Meath are NOT on the same level as Galway, Roscommon and Monaghan. Kildare beat you in the promotion play off and Armagh have beaten Roscommon comfortably and Monaghan already this season. The only team Meath have beaten this season is two of the worst teams I have seen play all season - and I have watched Antrim and Louth play.

Get your head down out of those clouds son because the thin air you are breathing is making you dreamy."
If Meath were to play Galway, Roscommon or Monaghan tomorrow I doubt there would be much in the games. If any of them were to play Dublin, I'd bet all would lose by 12 plus points in a championship game. Ulster is poor at the moment with Donegal and Tyrone decent against poor teams but nowhere near top table. My point is that there is no point in being number four in rankings when you are a million miles from number one. It's totally irrelevant and nobody cares. Who was ranked number four in the 70s, 80s or 90s. Nobody knows or cares.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 305 - 28/06/2021 17:40:56    2354276

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "There may be some truth in that assessment but I struggle to understand how a manager wouldn't perceive the league important - I certainly don't know how he wouldn't care that Cavan has gone from Division 1 to Division 4. But perhaps that's ok with supporters. It's an unusual strategy IMO."
Unless they get to an Ulster final they will no longer be competing in the AI

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 17:48:40    2354279

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Jesus Lockjaw is there any chance you can sort out the new lads from your home county. Absolutely clueless with a hint of trolls. Awful stuff.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 28/06/2021 17:58:06    2354284

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "What are you even talking about? What's his whole point because it sounds like you are missing it. You along with other Mayo folk. Maybe it's the senile Mayo folk like Flaker that's turning this thread into a comedy arena saying that Mayo are a tier ahead of Donegal and Tyrone."
Mayo are a tier ahead of Donegal. Not only are you a troll but a poor one at that. Have you read any of my posts. I have said clearly many times that Dublin and Kerry are the top 2 followed by a group including Mayo and Donegal. The only thing that is being debated on this forum, and rightly so is the notion that Donegal might be the team to push Dublin.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7290 - 28/06/2021 18:22:24    2354295

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Replying To winatallcost:  "If Meath were to play Galway, Roscommon or Monaghan tomorrow I doubt there would be much in the games. If any of them were to play Dublin, I'd bet all would lose by 12 plus points in a championship game. Ulster is poor at the moment with Donegal and Tyrone decent against poor teams but nowhere near top table. My point is that there is no point in being number four in rankings when you are a million miles from number one. It's totally irrelevant and nobody cares. Who was ranked number four in the 70s, 80s or 90s. Nobody knows or cares."
I am not that confident in Meath. I would have to take Roscommon and Galway over Meath purely because they have played in a higher division which is what the leagues are based on. Over the last few seasons I would have to go for Galway and Monaghan over Meath. Roscommon this year only for them being in D1.

Well this is the debate isn't it, Donegal and Tyrone are not near the top table but neither is anyone else except for Kerry.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 18:44:25    2354304

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Jesus Lockjaw is there any chance you can sort out the new lads from your home county. Absolutely clueless with a hint of trolls. Awful stuff."
What do you find difficult to understand about the title of the thread? I will make this simple for you as you are having difficulty somewhere.

2021 Rankings So Far - This relates to rankings in 2021. Not last years championship. Not 2019...2018...2017. If it was 2020 Mayo would be in the top 5, but it isn't because it is based on 2021 so far.

Dublin played in Division 1 and played Division 1 teams.
Kerry played in Division 1 and played Division 1 teams.
Donegal played in Division 1 and played Division 1 teams.
Tyrone played in Division 1 and played division 1 teams.
Monaghan played in Division 1 and played division 1 teams.
Galway played in Division 1 and played Division 1 teams.
Roscommon played in Division 1 and played Division 1 teams.
Armagh played in Division 1 and played Division 1 teams.

The tables ended something like this...

1. Dublin
1= Kerry
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Armagh
6. Monaghan
7. Galway
8. Roscommon

Mayo were not in division one so they cannot be ranked = with Kerry or above Donegal and Tyrone based on 2021 so far. They haven't played any teams anywhere near the quality for D1.

Mayo played in Division 2 and played Division 2 teams like Down, Westmeath, Meath and Clare. All Division 2 teams. Mayo have not played any division 1 teams so far this season so they are not ranked in the top 5.

McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 28/06/2021 19:20:38    2354321

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