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We couldn't both win it lad we would have to share it every second year :D
Meath10 (Meath) - Posts: 183 - 29/06/2021 13:45:03 2354600 Link 2 |
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I would rather measure it in terms of provincial success. You don't get any prizes for being the bridesmaid."]Yeah good idea, measure it on provincial competitions where counties can only play others within that province. Let's ignore what happens when the counties leave the provinces and can play each other."]I don't think Donegal would beat Dublin and haven't said any such thing on this forum so I don't know why you are getting all high and mighty about it. I have no problem saying Dublin would beat every provincial winner with ease with the exception of Kerry because they would. However, if Donegal were in Leinster they would easily be the second best team."]Same as they were in Ulster last year, eh ;) cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 29/06/2021 13:50:16 2354602 Link 16 |
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Combs for bald lads come to mind reading this load of trash. OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 29/06/2021 21:11:34 2354739 Link 3 |
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Well what are Roscommon doing to end Dubs dominance. Will they even win the Connacht title.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 29/06/2021 21:36:08 2354752 Link 2 |
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The Dubs and Kerry must be beaten on the pitch. So why not get out and train hard. And maybe just maybe you might start winning. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 29/06/2021 21:37:10 2354753 Link 0 |
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The Cavan win in Ulster last year was a fluke as many Cavan fans admit, we got the preparation completely wrong and underestimated Cavan, big mistake I lay at the door of our management team, preparing for a game against the Dubs that never came, same thing happened Kerry in Munster, it was a freak of a year that I can't see being repeated anytime soon. Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 29/06/2021 22:13:33 2354766 Link 2 |
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I think it was an up in the air season with how things progressed. GAA just wanted to tick the box for completing the championship with very little in terms preparation but then every county was on the same footing. I wonder if we strip all the hard work back and reverted back to a strict amateur ethos how good the teams who put big money into their county teams really are. Some might see Cavan as a fluke but they beat two D1 teams, one team that were at the same level as themselves and they never exactly hammered Antrim. McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 67 - 30/06/2021 11:25:39 2354854 Link 0 |
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I don't share you optimism with regards to Donegal. We do not have much in defence and time is marching on for Murphy. IF Dublin were on a downward trajectory it isn't going to be a quick one and Kerry are upping the ante. If we avoided them two I think we would have a very good chance but don't see it happening.
McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 67 - 30/06/2021 11:29:34 2354857 Link 0 |
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Most counties can only envy the squad Donegal have. Don't worry about the defense because every team has issues in defense. Whether they can handle being talked about as the main challengers to Dublin along with Kerry is where the question marks are, can they handle the pressure of expectation or will they implode. The Donegal v Kerry semi final should be a cracker of a game, assuming Kerry can dethrone the reigning Munster champions on their own patch that is. AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 30/06/2021 11:55:01 2354864 Link 0 |
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The last paragraph gave me as good a laugh as i had in a long time. Thanks for that. OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 01/07/2021 12:05:01 2355115 Link 6 |
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Having a sense of humour is essential about Roscommon alright.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 01/07/2021 13:30:50 2355134 Link 3 |
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This fella's been trolling for ages now and people still haven't caught on?
greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 01/07/2021 19:34:33 2355220 Link 2 |
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I would rather measure it in terms of provincial success. You don't get any prizes for being the bridesmaid."]Go into Leinster then and tell us where you will be ranked."]Just to add even before Dublin's AI dominance nobody in Leinster could touch them."]That's not true. Before Dublins All Ireland win in 2011 many leinster teams got close to Dublin. Meath hammered the Dubs by record score 5 goals, the year before Dublin won Sam. In 2009 Dublin beat Meath by few points and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin. In 2005 again in a very tight Dublin luckily won v Meath. In the 1980s and 1990s Dublin met Meath yearly and nearly every year Meath beat Dublin. Meath defeated Dublin 9 times and 5 draws in 15 years in the 1980s and 1990s. Kildare came very close to beating Dublin in 2009 and the year they won the All Ireland in 2011, Dublin were very lucky to beat kildare. Kildare defeated Dubs twice in 1998 and 2000 and had many great clashes in thw 90s v Dubs. Wexford came very close to beating Dubs in 2008 and should have beaten them. Laois defeated and Westmeath defeated Dublin in the years coming up to their All Ireland win. To say even before Dublin won Sam no one could touch them in leinster is just not reality. In 2011 Dublin won Sam. In 2011 kildare were very lucky not to beat Dublin. In 2010 Meath hammered Dublin. In 2009 Meath and kildare lost by couple points to Dublin. Wexford should have beaten Dublin in 2008, and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin and lost the replay by couple of points. Up to Dublin won the All Ireland in 2011, Meath had a great rivalry for generations v Dublin. So what you said is not true. After 2011 and 2012 things changed, but before 2012 Dublin were strong but very beatable. Dublin were reigning All Ireland champions in 2012, Meath lost the leinster final by three points and could have sneeked a draw at the end. In the same year 2012 laois lost by three points to Dublin in the quarter finals. Again Dublin struggled to beat laois as reigning All Ireland champions in 2012. It is not til after 2013 and 2014 that Dublin start hammering teams in leinster and throughout the country. Just regards Donegal, Donegal are a nice gaelic football team, play some good football, and have some talented players. But lack the steal of great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 or the great Ulster teams like Tyrone and Armagh of the 2000s and Derry and Downs and Donegals of 1990s. Donegal have been sucessful in Ulster recently, but this is the lowest Ulster football has been in 40 years since the 1970s. In 1980s you had brillant Tyrone, Monaghan teams who were unlucky not to beat the greatest team of all time, Kerry. In the 1990s the best teams in the country were in Ulster teams eg Down 1991, Donegal 1992, Derry 1993 and Down 1994. In the 2000s a great Armagh team and great Tyrone team won 4 All Irelands in 7 years. In the last decade only 1 Ulster team won 1 All Ireland. Armagh and Donegal won their first ever div 1 league title in 2000s. And Derry won their 4th division 1 league title in 15 years in 2008. Ulster teams won 6 national league div 1 titles in 2000s. They haven't one since 2008. Ulster football is at its lowest currently in 40 years. Basically a division 3 team, currently a div 4 team won the Ulster title last yead and then lost an All Ireland semi final by a record 15 points to Dublin. That was unheard of in the 1990s and 2000s. Dublin couldn't beat top Ulster teams in 1990s and 2000s. In 6 years 2002 to 2008 Ulster teams won 9 national titles 2002 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2002 Armagh won All Ireland senior title 2003 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2003 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2005 Armagh won Div 1 league tiitle 2005 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2007 Donegal won Div 1 league title 2008 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2008 Derry won Div 1 league title Compare that to the Last decade 2010 to 2021 2012 2012 Donegal won All Ireland senior title And that's it. While hree Ulster teams have got to All Ireland finals in the last 13 years. No Ulster team has won a Div 1 title in 13 years. Ulster teams won 6 div 1 titles in the 2000s. Only 2 Ulster team have reached Div 1 league final in the last 13 years, Tyrone 2013 and Derry in 2014. The last time a Ulster team got to a Div 1 final was 8 years in 2014. They were hammered by 15 points by Dublin. Compare this Donegal team to the great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 which had great warriors like M Gallagher, D Reid, A Molloy, M Gavigan, K Lacey, F McGlynn, McGee brothers, N Gallagher. Look at the lack of leadership v Cavan last year, this Donegal team is more like the Donegal teams of 1983 or 2002 than 2012. Nice footballers but cannot beat the big teams or win in Croke Park. Donegal have only ever won in the championship 8 times in Croke Park. Donegals first win ever in the championship in Croke Park was 1992 v Mayo in the semi final. The next wins for Donegal in Croke Park in the championship were v Dublin 1992, kildare 2011, Kerry 2012, Cork 2012, Mayo in 2012, Armagh in 2014 Dublin in 2014. Only with Brian McEniff and Jimmy McGuinnes have Donegal won championship matchs in Croke Park. Donegal traditionally struggled to win in Croke Park and struggled to beat top teams. In 1992 and 2012 Donegal teams played brillant football but had huge steel, many great warriors, great footballers and beat the top teams. Donegal currently are not at that level. Ulster football was the leading province in football in the 1990s and 2000s. Ulster teams pushed each other on. The Armagh and Tyrone rivalry pushed each other on in the 2000s. They met in the 2003 All Ireland final and the Ulster Final replay in 2005 was in Croke Park in front of 80000. Then they met in All Ireland semi final in the same year. It was a magical time for Ulster football. Since 2010 and especially since 2014 (the last year an Ulster team reached All Ireland final Donegal, and an Ulster team reached league div 1 final, Derry), Ulster football has declined. Its still a competitive province with great games, as we saw in the league. But compared to 2000s or the 1990s where 5 different Ulster teams won 8 All Irelands in 16 years, Ulster football is not as strong. Kingkeegan (UK) - Posts: 55 - 01/07/2021 22:45:22 2355269 Link 1 |
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Do well to find a Roscommon supporter as deluded as ye Donegal lads. Without a doubt ye would beat us but we know where we are. You guys think your something but either **** the pants or aren't good enough last few years.but likes of yourself are talking about a showdown against Dublin regularly. Ffs ye haven't been good enough to get far enough to face them and you would be hammered if ye did. Take Murphy out of Donegal and its an extremely average side with multiple overrated players.
sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1143 - 01/07/2021 23:38:33 2355288 Link 1 |
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What are you on about. To say kildare have competed v Dublin. Kildare haven't competed v Dublin since 2011. Dublin have hammered kildare by 19 points, 15 points, 13 points and ten points twice in recent years. The last time kildare were competitive v Dubs was the 2011 leinster semi final. Kildare and Galway have dreadful records v Dublin recently and traditionally, one of the worst in the country. Meath have beaten Dublin more than any other county in Ireland. In the last 35 years Meath have beaten Dublin 9 times and 5 draws in the championship. The next best teams is Kerry with 6 wins and 1 draw and the next best is Mayo with 2 wins and 3 draws. Kildare have beaten Dublin twice in 45 years. kildare haven't beaten Dublin in 21 years. Meath have beaten twice and drawn once since kildares last win v Dublin. The only teams in the country with a better record in the same time period v Dubs than Meath in terms of victories and draws would be Mayo and Dublin. Since 2000 Top 6 Counties v Dublin 1 kerry 4 wins 1 draw v Dublin 2 Mayo 2 wins 2 draws v Dublin 3 Meath 2 wins 1 draw v Dublin 3 Tyrone 2 wins 1 draw v Dublin 3 Donegal 2 wins 1 draw v Dublin 4 Armagh 2 wins v Dublin And Meaths 4 point loss to Dublin in last years league is the closest any team has got to Dublin in 9 years in league and championship. These are the Three best performances leinster teams v Dublin since 2012 1 Meath lost by 3 points to Dublin in 2012 leinster final / Laois lost by 3 points to Dublin in 2012 quarter final 2 Meath lost by Dublin in 2020 league by 4 points That's the closest any leinster eam has got to Dublin in leinster in a competitive game in 9 years. But yes from 2014 to now both kildare and Meath have been hammered by Dublin by pretty much the same score. Since 2013 kildare have been beaten by Dublin by 10 points twice, 13 points, 15 points and 19 points. Since 2013 Meath have beaten by Dublin by 7 points, 10 points, 14 points, 16 points and 21 points. Meath have had 4 hammering since 2013 from Dublin, kildare have had 5 hammering from Dublin since 2013. Both have failed miserably v Dublin since 2013 and 2014. But so has the rest of leinster were the average losing score is 16 points for leinster teams v Dublin. The highest defeat was Westmeath defeated by 31 points by Dublin in the 2017 championship. The only competive game between Dublin and a leinster teams in last 9 years was Meath v Dublin in last years league, where a leinster team went toe to toe with Dublin for full 70 mins. Meath were ahead around 54th min and Dublin only pulled away in injury time with couple of points. In dying mins of game there was a point between the teams. Its the lowest losing margin between Dublin and leinster team since 2012. Just finally that you mentioned Galway and kildare. There is with exception of few years in 1990s and late 1920s, there is no or little rivalry between kildare and Dublin, compared to Meath and Dublin which goes back to 1940s and there was huge battles between both counties in every decade right up to 2012, 2013. And at its peak for 25 years Meath v Dublin was the biggest rivalry in the country and many feel its rivalry in the early 1990s saved gaelic football after the fear of soccers popularity growing after Italia 90. While Kildare have beaten Dublin in 1 leinster final in 90 years. Meath defeated Dublin in 7 leinster finals and 1 league div 1 final in the 1980s and 1990s. But Dublins true bogey team is Galway. Galway haven't beaten Dublin in the championship in 87 years since 1934. That's the worst record of any top county in Ireland v the Dubs. All All Ireland winners of the last 60 years have beaten Dublin in the championship. Down, Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh,Cork, Meath, Offaly, Derry and kerry have all beaten Dublin sometime in the championship in the last 80 years. The only county not is Galway. Before the Galway v Dublin 1974 final or 1983 final or 1963 final or even the clash between both counties in the 2018 All Ireland semi final, it is always brought up Dublin are Galways great traditional bogey team. Mayo for example in the last 35 years have beaten Dublin twice and 3 draws in the championship. Galway have only ever beaten Dublin twice in the championship and that was 87 years ago in 1934 by 2 points and 1933 by 1 point. Kingkeegan (UK) - Posts: 55 - 02/07/2021 00:26:27 2355296 Link 0 |
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I would rather measure it in terms of provincial success. You don't get any prizes for being the bridesmaid."]Go into Leinster then and tell us where you will be ranked."]Just to add even before Dublin's AI dominance nobody in Leinster could touch them."]That's not true. Before Dublins All Ireland win in 2011 many leinster teams got close to Dublin. Meath hammered the Dubs by record score 5 goals, the year before Dublin won Sam. In 2009 Dublin beat Meath by few points and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin. In 2005 again in a very tight Dublin luckily won v Meath. In the 1980s and 1990s Dublin met Meath yearly and nearly every year Meath beat Dublin. Meath defeated Dublin 9 times and 5 draws in 15 years in the 1980s and 1990s. Kildare came very close to beating Dublin in 2009 and the year they won the All Ireland in 2011, Dublin were very lucky to beat kildare. Kildare defeated Dubs twice in 1998 and 2000 and had many great clashes in thw 90s v Dubs. Wexford came very close to beating Dubs in 2008 and should have beaten them. Laois defeated and Westmeath defeated Dublin in the years coming up to their All Ireland win. To say even before Dublin won Sam no one could touch them in leinster is just not reality. In 2011 Dublin won Sam. In 2011 kildare were very lucky not to beat Dublin. In 2010 Meath hammered Dublin. In 2009 Meath and kildare lost by couple points to Dublin. Wexford should have beaten Dublin in 2008, and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin and lost the replay by couple of points. Up to Dublin won the All Ireland in 2011, Meath had a great rivalry for generations v Dublin. So what you said is not true. After 2011 and 2012 things changed, but before 2012 Dublin were strong but very beatable. Dublin were reigning All Ireland champions in 2012, Meath lost the leinster final by three points and could have sneeked a draw at the end. In the same year 2012 laois lost by three points to Dublin in the quarter finals. Again Dublin struggled to beat laois as reigning All Ireland champions in 2012. It is not til after 2013 and 2014 that Dublin start hammering teams in leinster and throughout the country. Just regards Donegal, Donegal are a nice gaelic football team, play some good football, and have some talented players. But lack the steal of great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 or the great Ulster teams like Tyrone and Armagh of the 2000s and Derry and Downs and Donegals of 1990s. Donegal have been sucessful in Ulster recently, but this is the lowest Ulster football has been in 40 years since the 1970s. In 1980s you had brillant Tyrone, Monaghan teams who were unlucky not to beat the greatest team of all time, Kerry. In the 1990s the best teams in the country were in Ulster teams eg Down 1991, Donegal 1992, Derry 1993 and Down 1994. In the 2000s a great Armagh team and great Tyrone team won 4 All Irelands in 7 years. In the last decade only 1 Ulster team won 1 All Ireland. Armagh and Donegal won their first ever div 1 league title in 2000s. And Derry won their 4th division 1 league title in 15 years in 2008. Ulster teams won 6 national league div 1 titles in 2000s. They haven't one since 2008. Ulster football is at its lowest currently in 40 years. Basically a division 3 team, currently a div 4 team won the Ulster title last yead and then lost an All Ireland semi final by a record 15 points to Dublin. That was unheard of in the 1990s and 2000s. Dublin couldn't beat top Ulster teams in 1990s and 2000s. In 6 years 2002 to 2008 Ulster teams won 9 national titles 2002 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2002 Armagh won All Ireland senior title 2003 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2003 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2005 Armagh won Div 1 league tiitle 2005 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2007 Donegal won Div 1 league title 2008 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2008 Derry won Div 1 league title Compare that to the Last decade 2010 to 2021 2012 2012 Donegal won All Ireland senior title And that's it. While hree Ulster teams have got to All Ireland finals in the last 13 years. No Ulster team has won a Div 1 title in 13 years. Ulster teams won 6 div 1 titles in the 2000s. Only 2 Ulster team have reached Div 1 league final in the last 13 years, Tyrone 2013 and Derry in 2014. The last time a Ulster team got to a Div 1 final was 8 years in 2014. They were hammered by 15 points by Dublin. Compare this Donegal team to the great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 which had great warriors like M Gallagher, D Reid, A Molloy, M Gavigan, K Lacey, F McGlynn, McGee brothers, N Gallagher. Look at the lack of leadership v Cavan last year, this Donegal team is more like the Donegal teams of 1983 or 2002 than 2012. Nice footballers but cannot beat the big teams or win in Croke Park. Donegal have only ever won in the championship 8 times in Croke Park. Donegals first win ever in the championship in Croke Park was 1992 v Mayo in the semi final. The next wins for Donegal in Croke Park in the championship were v Dublin 1992, kildare 2011, Kerry 2012, Cork 2012, Mayo in 2012, Armagh in 2014 Dublin in 2014. Only with Brian McEniff and Jimmy McGuinnes have Donegal won championship matchs in Croke Park. Donegal traditionally struggled to win in Croke Park and struggled to beat top teams. In 1992 and 2012 Donegal teams played brillant football but had huge steel, many great warriors, great footballers and beat the top teams. Donegal currently are not at that level. Ulster football was the leading province in football in the 1990s and 2000s. Ulster teams pushed each other on. The Armagh and Tyrone rivalry pushed each other on in the 2000s. They met in the 2003 All Ireland final and the Ulster Final replay in 2005 was in Croke Park in front of 80000. Then they met in All Ireland semi final in the same year. It was a magical time for Ulster football. Since 2010 and especially since 2014 (the last year an Ulster team reached All Ireland final Donegal, and an Ulster team reached league div 1 final, Derry), Ulster football has declined. Its still a competitive province with great games, as we saw in the league. But compared to 2000s or the 1990s where 5 different Ulster teams won 8 All Irelands in 16 years, Ulster football is not as strong."]This is a great post. I have to agree with you on Donegal. Personally, I think this Donegal team is the most talented we've ever had but as you say they are lacking the steal. We only have a few players on the team with steal and doggedness, namely Stephen McMenamin, Neil McGee, Michael Murphy and so on. Hopefully we can be proved wrong this season. MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 178 - 02/07/2021 11:06:57 2355345 Link 0 |
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I would rather measure it in terms of provincial success. You don't get any prizes for being the bridesmaid."]Go into Leinster then and tell us where you will be ranked."]Just to add even before Dublin's AI dominance nobody in Leinster could touch them."]That's not true. Before Dublins All Ireland win in 2011 many leinster teams got close to Dublin. Meath hammered the Dubs by record score 5 goals, the year before Dublin won Sam. In 2009 Dublin beat Meath by few points and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin. In 2005 again in a very tight Dublin luckily won v Meath. In the 1980s and 1990s Dublin met Meath yearly and nearly every year Meath beat Dublin. Meath defeated Dublin 9 times and 5 draws in 15 years in the 1980s and 1990s. Kildare came very close to beating Dublin in 2009 and the year they won the All Ireland in 2011, Dublin were very lucky to beat kildare. Kildare defeated Dubs twice in 1998 and 2000 and had many great clashes in thw 90s v Dubs. Wexford came very close to beating Dubs in 2008 and should have beaten them. Laois defeated and Westmeath defeated Dublin in the years coming up to their All Ireland win. To say even before Dublin won Sam no one could touch them in leinster is just not reality. In 2011 Dublin won Sam. In 2011 kildare were very lucky not to beat Dublin. In 2010 Meath hammered Dublin. In 2009 Meath and kildare lost by couple points to Dublin. Wexford should have beaten Dublin in 2008, and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin and lost the replay by couple of points. Up to Dublin won the All Ireland in 2011, Meath had a great rivalry for generations v Dublin. So what you said is not true. After 2011 and 2012 things changed, but before 2012 Dublin were strong but very beatable. Dublin were reigning All Ireland champions in 2012, Meath lost the leinster final by three points and could have sneeked a draw at the end. In the same year 2012 laois lost by three points to Dublin in the quarter finals. Again Dublin struggled to beat laois as reigning All Ireland champions in 2012. It is not til after 2013 and 2014 that Dublin start hammering teams in leinster and throughout the country. Just regards Donegal, Donegal are a nice gaelic football team, play some good football, and have some talented players. But lack the steal of great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 or the great Ulster teams like Tyrone and Armagh of the 2000s and Derry and Downs and Donegals of 1990s. Donegal have been sucessful in Ulster recently, but this is the lowest Ulster football has been in 40 years since the 1970s. In 1980s you had brillant Tyrone, Monaghan teams who were unlucky not to beat the greatest team of all time, Kerry. In the 1990s the best teams in the country were in Ulster teams eg Down 1991, Donegal 1992, Derry 1993 and Down 1994. In the 2000s a great Armagh team and great Tyrone team won 4 All Irelands in 7 years. In the last decade only 1 Ulster team won 1 All Ireland. Armagh and Donegal won their first ever div 1 league title in 2000s. And Derry won their 4th division 1 league title in 15 years in 2008. Ulster teams won 6 national league div 1 titles in 2000s. They haven't one since 2008. Ulster football is at its lowest currently in 40 years. Basically a division 3 team, currently a div 4 team won the Ulster title last yead and then lost an All Ireland semi final by a record 15 points to Dublin. That was unheard of in the 1990s and 2000s. Dublin couldn't beat top Ulster teams in 1990s and 2000s. In 6 years 2002 to 2008 Ulster teams won 9 national titles 2002 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2002 Armagh won All Ireland senior title 2003 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2003 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2005 Armagh won Div 1 league tiitle 2005 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2007 Donegal won Div 1 league title 2008 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2008 Derry won Div 1 league title Compare that to the Last decade 2010 to 2021 2012 2012 Donegal won All Ireland senior title And that's it. While hree Ulster teams have got to All Ireland finals in the last 13 years. No Ulster team has won a Div 1 title in 13 years. Ulster teams won 6 div 1 titles in the 2000s. Only 2 Ulster team have reached Div 1 league final in the last 13 years, Tyrone 2013 and Derry in 2014. The last time a Ulster team got to a Div 1 final was 8 years in 2014. They were hammered by 15 points by Dublin. Compare this Donegal team to the great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 which had great warriors like M Gallagher, D Reid, A Molloy, M Gavigan, K Lacey, F McGlynn, McGee brothers, N Gallagher. Look at the lack of leadership v Cavan last year, this Donegal team is more like the Donegal teams of 1983 or 2002 than 2012. Nice footballers but cannot beat the big teams or win in Croke Park. Donegal have only ever won in the championship 8 times in Croke Park. Donegals first win ever in the championship in Croke Park was 1992 v Mayo in the semi final. The next wins for Donegal in Croke Park in the championship were v Dublin 1992, kildare 2011, Kerry 2012, Cork 2012, Mayo in 2012, Armagh in 2014 Dublin in 2014. Only with Brian McEniff and Jimmy McGuinnes have Donegal won championship matchs in Croke Park. Donegal traditionally struggled to win in Croke Park and struggled to beat top teams. In 1992 and 2012 Donegal teams played brillant football but had huge steel, many great warriors, great footballers and beat the top teams. Donegal currently are not at that level. Ulster football was the leading province in football in the 1990s and 2000s. Ulster teams pushed each other on. The Armagh and Tyrone rivalry pushed each other on in the 2000s. They met in the 2003 All Ireland final and the Ulster Final replay in 2005 was in Croke Park in front of 80000. Then they met in All Ireland semi final in the same year. It was a magical time for Ulster football. Since 2010 and especially since 2014 (the last year an Ulster team reached All Ireland final Donegal, and an Ulster team reached league div 1 final, Derry), Ulster football has declined. Its still a competitive province with great games, as we saw in the league. But compared to 2000s or the 1990s where 5 different Ulster teams won 8 All Irelands in 16 years, Ulster football is not as strong."]I'd agree with a lot of that. It's not just at senior intercounty, Ulster sides record at underage and senior club over the past 10 years is fairly dreadful too. The game in Ulster is producing lots of good players, but not players of the highest standard. Donegal are probably the top team in the province today but I'm not sure they have replaced the class players of 2012 like Lacey, McGlynn, Gallagher or McFadden. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/07/2021 11:26:46 2355356 Link 0 |
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I would rather measure it in terms of provincial success. You don't get any prizes for being the bridesmaid."]Go into Leinster then and tell us where you will be ranked."]Just to add even before Dublin's AI dominance nobody in Leinster could touch them."]That's not true. Before Dublins All Ireland win in 2011 many leinster teams got close to Dublin. Meath hammered the Dubs by record score 5 goals, the year before Dublin won Sam. In 2009 Dublin beat Meath by few points and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin. In 2005 again in a very tight Dublin luckily won v Meath. In the 1980s and 1990s Dublin met Meath yearly and nearly every year Meath beat Dublin. Meath defeated Dublin 9 times and 5 draws in 15 years in the 1980s and 1990s. Kildare came very close to beating Dublin in 2009 and the year they won the All Ireland in 2011, Dublin were very lucky to beat kildare. Kildare defeated Dubs twice in 1998 and 2000 and had many great clashes in thw 90s v Dubs. Wexford came very close to beating Dubs in 2008 and should have beaten them. Laois defeated and Westmeath defeated Dublin in the years coming up to their All Ireland win. To say even before Dublin won Sam no one could touch them in leinster is just not reality. In 2011 Dublin won Sam. In 2011 kildare were very lucky not to beat Dublin. In 2010 Meath hammered Dublin. In 2009 Meath and kildare lost by couple points to Dublin. Wexford should have beaten Dublin in 2008, and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin and lost the replay by couple of points. Up to Dublin won the All Ireland in 2011, Meath had a great rivalry for generations v Dublin. So what you said is not true. After 2011 and 2012 things changed, but before 2012 Dublin were strong but very beatable. Dublin were reigning All Ireland champions in 2012, Meath lost the leinster final by three points and could have sneeked a draw at the end. In the same year 2012 laois lost by three points to Dublin in the quarter finals. Again Dublin struggled to beat laois as reigning All Ireland champions in 2012. It is not til after 2013 and 2014 that Dublin start hammering teams in leinster and throughout the country. Just regards Donegal, Donegal are a nice gaelic football team, play some good football, and have some talented players. But lack the steal of great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 or the great Ulster teams like Tyrone and Armagh of the 2000s and Derry and Downs and Donegals of 1990s. Donegal have been sucessful in Ulster recently, but this is the lowest Ulster football has been in 40 years since the 1970s. In 1980s you had brillant Tyrone, Monaghan teams who were unlucky not to beat the greatest team of all time, Kerry. In the 1990s the best teams in the country were in Ulster teams eg Down 1991, Donegal 1992, Derry 1993 and Down 1994. In the 2000s a great Armagh team and great Tyrone team won 4 All Irelands in 7 years. In the last decade only 1 Ulster team won 1 All Ireland. Armagh and Donegal won their first ever div 1 league title in 2000s. And Derry won their 4th division 1 league title in 15 years in 2008. Ulster teams won 6 national league div 1 titles in 2000s. They haven't one since 2008. Ulster football is at its lowest currently in 40 years. Basically a division 3 team, currently a div 4 team won the Ulster title last yead and then lost an All Ireland semi final by a record 15 points to Dublin. That was unheard of in the 1990s and 2000s. Dublin couldn't beat top Ulster teams in 1990s and 2000s. In 6 years 2002 to 2008 Ulster teams won 9 national titles 2002 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2002 Armagh won All Ireland senior title 2003 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2003 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2005 Armagh won Div 1 league tiitle 2005 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2007 Donegal won Div 1 league title 2008 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2008 Derry won Div 1 league title Compare that to the Last decade 2010 to 2021 2012 2012 Donegal won All Ireland senior title And that's it. While hree Ulster teams have got to All Ireland finals in the last 13 years. No Ulster team has won a Div 1 title in 13 years. Ulster teams won 6 div 1 titles in the 2000s. Only 2 Ulster team have reached Div 1 league final in the last 13 years, Tyrone 2013 and Derry in 2014. The last time a Ulster team got to a Div 1 final was 8 years in 2014. They were hammered by 15 points by Dublin. Compare this Donegal team to the great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 which had great warriors like M Gallagher, D Reid, A Molloy, M Gavigan, K Lacey, F McGlynn, McGee brothers, N Gallagher. Look at the lack of leadership v Cavan last year, this Donegal team is more like the Donegal teams of 1983 or 2002 than 2012. Nice footballers but cannot beat the big teams or win in Croke Park. Donegal have only ever won in the championship 8 times in Croke Park. Donegals first win ever in the championship in Croke Park was 1992 v Mayo in the semi final. The next wins for Donegal in Croke Park in the championship were v Dublin 1992, kildare 2011, Kerry 2012, Cork 2012, Mayo in 2012, Armagh in 2014 Dublin in 2014. Only with Brian McEniff and Jimmy McGuinnes have Donegal won championship matchs in Croke Park. Donegal traditionally struggled to win in Croke Park and struggled to beat top teams. In 1992 and 2012 Donegal teams played brillant football but had huge steel, many great warriors, great footballers and beat the top teams. Donegal currently are not at that level. Ulster football was the leading province in football in the 1990s and 2000s. Ulster teams pushed each other on. The Armagh and Tyrone rivalry pushed each other on in the 2000s. They met in the 2003 All Ireland final and the Ulster Final replay in 2005 was in Croke Park in front of 80000. Then they met in All Ireland semi final in the same year. It was a magical time for Ulster football. Since 2010 and especially since 2014 (the last year an Ulster team reached All Ireland final Donegal, and an Ulster team reached league div 1 final, Derry), Ulster football has declined. Its still a competitive province with great games, as we saw in the league. But compared to 2000s or the 1990s where 5 different Ulster teams won 8 All Irelands in 16 years, Ulster football is not as strong."]I'd agree with a lot of that. It's not just at senior intercounty, Ulster sides record at underage and senior club over the past 10 years is fairly dreadful too. The game in Ulster is producing lots of good players, but not players of the highest standard. Donegal are probably the top team in the province today but I'm not sure they have replaced the class players of 2012 like Lacey, McGlynn, Gallagher or McFadden."]Have to disagree with you about Dublin not being dominant before their dominance, Since 2005 Dublin have only missed out on one and that loss to Meath was more of a once in a lifetime event considering Meath were hammered by Kildare in the AI and Meath haven't won anything since. You can go back to any decade you like it really doesn't take away from the fact Dublin have dominated. To put this into perspective a little more Dublin have played 48 Leinster Championship games since 2005 and lost ONE game meaning they have a 98% win rate. You can either see that as dominant or Leinster is exceptionally poor. NFL is quite a complicated story when it comes to measuring success. Every year since 2012 there has been at least one Ulster team in the top four of the NFL and perhaps I am being biased when I say this but when competing in Ulster you rarely get an easy opening game and that was always the important part of the season. I agree Donegal are not going anywhere now, they are past it I feel. Some other Donegal fans might see it differently but Murphy isn't getting any younger and we are on a downward curve. Unfortunately, all good things must come to an end and Donegal's story is no different. My past posts haven't been about defending Donegal as a top team but to provide a realistic ranking of teams so far this season which many Mayo folk have strongly disagreed with. I disagree about Ulster not producing great players, Ulster do produce great players the problem is great teams are not being produced. Armagh on paper have a really good team and even Spillane himself was saying on the Sunday game the O'Neill's are every bit as good as the Clifford's - and it makes you question what is going on over there especially with how Jamie Clarke's potential was never fulfilled. McGo72 (Donegal) - Posts: 67 - 02/07/2021 14:27:00 2355413 Link 0 |
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I would rather measure it in terms of provincial success. You don't get any prizes for being the bridesmaid."]Go into Leinster then and tell us where you will be ranked."]Just to add even before Dublin's AI dominance nobody in Leinster could touch them."]That's not true. Before Dublins All Ireland win in 2011 many leinster teams got close to Dublin. Meath hammered the Dubs by record score 5 goals, the year before Dublin won Sam. In 2009 Dublin beat Meath by few points and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin. In 2005 again in a very tight Dublin luckily won v Meath. In the 1980s and 1990s Dublin met Meath yearly and nearly every year Meath beat Dublin. Meath defeated Dublin 9 times and 5 draws in 15 years in the 1980s and 1990s. Kildare came very close to beating Dublin in 2009 and the year they won the All Ireland in 2011, Dublin were very lucky to beat kildare. Kildare defeated Dubs twice in 1998 and 2000 and had many great clashes in thw 90s v Dubs. Wexford came very close to beating Dubs in 2008 and should have beaten them. Laois defeated and Westmeath defeated Dublin in the years coming up to their All Ireland win. To say even before Dublin won Sam no one could touch them in leinster is just not reality. In 2011 Dublin won Sam. In 2011 kildare were very lucky not to beat Dublin. In 2010 Meath hammered Dublin. In 2009 Meath and kildare lost by couple points to Dublin. Wexford should have beaten Dublin in 2008, and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin and lost the replay by couple of points. Up to Dublin won the All Ireland in 2011, Meath had a great rivalry for generations v Dublin. So what you said is not true. After 2011 and 2012 things changed, but before 2012 Dublin were strong but very beatable. Dublin were reigning All Ireland champions in 2012, Meath lost the leinster final by three points and could have sneeked a draw at the end. In the same year 2012 laois lost by three points to Dublin in the quarter finals. Again Dublin struggled to beat laois as reigning All Ireland champions in 2012. It is not til after 2013 and 2014 that Dublin start hammering teams in leinster and throughout the country. Just regards Donegal, Donegal are a nice gaelic football team, play some good football, and have some talented players. But lack the steal of great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 or the great Ulster teams like Tyrone and Armagh of the 2000s and Derry and Downs and Donegals of 1990s. Donegal have been sucessful in Ulster recently, but this is the lowest Ulster football has been in 40 years since the 1970s. In 1980s you had brillant Tyrone, Monaghan teams who were unlucky not to beat the greatest team of all time, Kerry. In the 1990s the best teams in the country were in Ulster teams eg Down 1991, Donegal 1992, Derry 1993 and Down 1994. In the 2000s a great Armagh team and great Tyrone team won 4 All Irelands in 7 years. In the last decade only 1 Ulster team won 1 All Ireland. Armagh and Donegal won their first ever div 1 league title in 2000s. And Derry won their 4th division 1 league title in 15 years in 2008. Ulster teams won 6 national league div 1 titles in 2000s. They haven't one since 2008. Ulster football is at its lowest currently in 40 years. Basically a division 3 team, currently a div 4 team won the Ulster title last yead and then lost an All Ireland semi final by a record 15 points to Dublin. That was unheard of in the 1990s and 2000s. Dublin couldn't beat top Ulster teams in 1990s and 2000s. In 6 years 2002 to 2008 Ulster teams won 9 national titles 2002 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2002 Armagh won All Ireland senior title 2003 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2003 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2005 Armagh won Div 1 league tiitle 2005 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2007 Donegal won Div 1 league title 2008 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2008 Derry won Div 1 league title Compare that to the Last decade 2010 to 2021 2012 2012 Donegal won All Ireland senior title And that's it. While hree Ulster teams have got to All Ireland finals in the last 13 years. No Ulster team has won a Div 1 title in 13 years. Ulster teams won 6 div 1 titles in the 2000s. Only 2 Ulster team have reached Div 1 league final in the last 13 years, Tyrone 2013 and Derry in 2014. The last time a Ulster team got to a Div 1 final was 8 years in 2014. They were hammered by 15 points by Dublin. Compare this Donegal team to the great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 which had great warriors like M Gallagher, D Reid, A Molloy, M Gavigan, K Lacey, F McGlynn, McGee brothers, N Gallagher. Look at the lack of leadership v Cavan last year, this Donegal team is more like the Donegal teams of 1983 or 2002 than 2012. Nice footballers but cannot beat the big teams or win in Croke Park. Donegal have only ever won in the championship 8 times in Croke Park. Donegals first win ever in the championship in Croke Park was 1992 v Mayo in the semi final. The next wins for Donegal in Croke Park in the championship were v Dublin 1992, kildare 2011, Kerry 2012, Cork 2012, Mayo in 2012, Armagh in 2014 Dublin in 2014. Only with Brian McEniff and Jimmy McGuinnes have Donegal won championship matchs in Croke Park. Donegal traditionally struggled to win in Croke Park and struggled to beat top teams. In 1992 and 2012 Donegal teams played brillant football but had huge steel, many great warriors, great footballers and beat the top teams. Donegal currently are not at that level. Ulster football was the leading province in football in the 1990s and 2000s. Ulster teams pushed each other on. The Armagh and Tyrone rivalry pushed each other on in the 2000s. They met in the 2003 All Ireland final and the Ulster Final replay in 2005 was in Croke Park in front of 80000. Then they met in All Ireland semi final in the same year. It was a magical time for Ulster football. Since 2010 and especially since 2014 (the last year an Ulster team reached All Ireland final Donegal, and an Ulster team reached league div 1 final, Derry), Ulster football has declined. Its still a competitive province with great games, as we saw in the league. But compared to 2000s or the 1990s where 5 different Ulster teams won 8 All Irelands in 16 years, Ulster football is not as strong."]I think you're getting lost in the noise of all those years and results, Dublin's success since 2011 throws most things out of whack when you look at it from that perspective. Everyone outside of Dublin is not as strong as they once were. Kerry have one National League title (2017) where a final was actually played, since 2009. They have the one All-Ireland (2014) since 2009. They haven't beaten Dublin in the Championship since 2009, 12 years without a win. Kerry's decline has to be the most striking of any county, they have absolutely fallen off a cliff in terms of All-Ireland contention. greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 02/07/2021 18:52:56 2355442 Link 1 |
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I would rather measure it in terms of provincial success. You don't get any prizes for being the bridesmaid."]Go into Leinster then and tell us where you will be ranked."]Just to add even before Dublin's AI dominance nobody in Leinster could touch them."]That's not true. Before Dublins All Ireland win in 2011 many leinster teams got close to Dublin. Meath hammered the Dubs by record score 5 goals, the year before Dublin won Sam. In 2009 Dublin beat Meath by few points and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin. In 2005 again in a very tight Dublin luckily won v Meath. In the 1980s and 1990s Dublin met Meath yearly and nearly every year Meath beat Dublin. Meath defeated Dublin 9 times and 5 draws in 15 years in the 1980s and 1990s. Kildare came very close to beating Dublin in 2009 and the year they won the All Ireland in 2011, Dublin were very lucky to beat kildare. Kildare defeated Dubs twice in 1998 and 2000 and had many great clashes in thw 90s v Dubs. Wexford came very close to beating Dubs in 2008 and should have beaten them. Laois defeated and Westmeath defeated Dublin in the years coming up to their All Ireland win. To say even before Dublin won Sam no one could touch them in leinster is just not reality. In 2011 Dublin won Sam. In 2011 kildare were very lucky not to beat Dublin. In 2010 Meath hammered Dublin. In 2009 Meath and kildare lost by couple points to Dublin. Wexford should have beaten Dublin in 2008, and in 2007 Meath drew with Dublin and lost the replay by couple of points. Up to Dublin won the All Ireland in 2011, Meath had a great rivalry for generations v Dublin. So what you said is not true. After 2011 and 2012 things changed, but before 2012 Dublin were strong but very beatable. Dublin were reigning All Ireland champions in 2012, Meath lost the leinster final by three points and could have sneeked a draw at the end. In the same year 2012 laois lost by three points to Dublin in the quarter finals. Again Dublin struggled to beat laois as reigning All Ireland champions in 2012. It is not til after 2013 and 2014 that Dublin start hammering teams in leinster and throughout the country. Just regards Donegal, Donegal are a nice gaelic football team, play some good football, and have some talented players. But lack the steal of great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 or the great Ulster teams like Tyrone and Armagh of the 2000s and Derry and Downs and Donegals of 1990s. Donegal have been sucessful in Ulster recently, but this is the lowest Ulster football has been in 40 years since the 1970s. In 1980s you had brillant Tyrone, Monaghan teams who were unlucky not to beat the greatest team of all time, Kerry. In the 1990s the best teams in the country were in Ulster teams eg Down 1991, Donegal 1992, Derry 1993 and Down 1994. In the 2000s a great Armagh team and great Tyrone team won 4 All Irelands in 7 years. In the last decade only 1 Ulster team won 1 All Ireland. Armagh and Donegal won their first ever div 1 league title in 2000s. And Derry won their 4th division 1 league title in 15 years in 2008. Ulster teams won 6 national league div 1 titles in 2000s. They haven't one since 2008. Ulster football is at its lowest currently in 40 years. Basically a division 3 team, currently a div 4 team won the Ulster title last yead and then lost an All Ireland semi final by a record 15 points to Dublin. That was unheard of in the 1990s and 2000s. Dublin couldn't beat top Ulster teams in 1990s and 2000s. In 6 years 2002 to 2008 Ulster teams won 9 national titles 2002 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2002 Armagh won All Ireland senior title 2003 Tyrone won Div 1 league title 2003 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2005 Armagh won Div 1 league tiitle 2005 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2007 Donegal won Div 1 league title 2008 Tyrone won All Ireland senior title 2008 Derry won Div 1 league title Compare that to the Last decade 2010 to 2021 2012 2012 Donegal won All Ireland senior title And that's it. While hree Ulster teams have got to All Ireland finals in the last 13 years. No Ulster team has won a Div 1 title in 13 years. Ulster teams won 6 div 1 titles in the 2000s. Only 2 Ulster team have reached Div 1 league final in the last 13 years, Tyrone 2013 and Derry in 2014. The last time a Ulster team got to a Div 1 final was 8 years in 2014. They were hammered by 15 points by Dublin. Compare this Donegal team to the great Donegal teams of 1992 and 2012 which had great warriors like M Gallagher, D Reid, A Molloy, M Gavigan, K Lacey, F McGlynn, McGee brothers, N Gallagher. Look at the lack of leadership v Cavan last year, this Donegal team is more like the Donegal teams of 1983 or 2002 than 2012. Nice footballers but cannot beat the big teams or win in Croke Park. Donegal have only ever won in the championship 8 times in Croke Park. Donegals first win ever in the championship in Croke Park was 1992 v Mayo in the semi final. The next wins for Donegal in Croke Park in the championship were v Dublin 1992, kildare 2011, Kerry 2012, Cork 2012, Mayo in 2012, Armagh in 2014 Dublin in 2014. Only with Brian McEniff and Jimmy McGuinnes have Donegal won championship matchs in Croke Park. Donegal traditionally struggled to win in Croke Park and struggled to beat top teams. In 1992 and 2012 Donegal teams played brillant football but had huge steel, many great warriors, great footballers and beat the top teams. Donegal currently are not at that level. Ulster football was the leading province in football in the 1990s and 2000s. Ulster teams pushed each other on. The Armagh and Tyrone rivalry pushed each other on in the 2000s. They met in the 2003 All Ireland final and the Ulster Final replay in 2005 was in Croke Park in front of 80000. Then they met in All Ireland semi final in the same year. It was a magical time for Ulster football. Since 2010 and especially since 2014 (the last year an Ulster team reached All Ireland final Donegal, and an Ulster team reached league div 1 final, Derry), Ulster football has declined. Its still a competitive province with great games, as we saw in the league. But compared to 2000s or the 1990s where 5 different Ulster teams won 8 All Irelands in 16 years, Ulster football is not as strong."]I think you're getting lost in the noise of all those years and results, Dublin's success since 2011 throws most things out of whack when you look at it from that perspective. Everyone outside of Dublin is not as strong as they once were. Kerry have one National League title (2017) where a final was actually played, since 2009. They have the one All-Ireland (2014) since 2009. They haven't beaten Dublin in the Championship since 2009, 12 years without a win. Kerry's decline has to be the most striking of any county, they have absolutely fallen off a cliff in terms of All-Ireland contention."]I would have to disagree with you. You are massaging the figures to suit. In reality since 2009 you say they have one one league where a final was played but in reality they won the league last year by topping the table and topped the table agaín this year sharing the title with Dublin. Kerry have nt regressed that much. Its just they are playing through an unprecedented era where Dublin have been just brilliant. Since 09 Kerry have played in 4 finals winning one. Lost 11 by a point to Dublin 15 by 3 points and 19 in a replay and won an all ireland. Besides Dublin only 3 teams have won Sam since 09 and that's Donegal Kerry and Cork.. Only Mayo have played in more finals 5. So there without massaging the figures I would argue that Kerry are nt too bad at all. Actually Dublin aside nó county would have a better record than Kerry in that period. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 02/07/2021 19:35:07 2355445 Link 1 |