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The GAA And "Northern Ireland"

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Replying To 97Cavans:  "I think it is important to point out that the likes of Sammy Wilson and Paisley jnr are not an accurate representation of unionism anymore. Increasing numbers from a unionist tradition have more to do with the south than Britain. Increasingly younger members are starting to complete their studies in the south and are loving life with more job opportunities available to them down here. This sort of change is vital development in the unification process"
I agree that Sammy Wilson and Paisley aren't an accurate picture of Unionism. There is more Unionists completing their studies down South and working here aswell. However the opinion polls don't back up the idea that they want a United Ireland or that any of them are wavering. I think they are probably the most pragmatic people in these Islands but the only population changing is the another Catholic one which has a significant minority that want to remain as part of the UK. You won't hear them on a GAA forum but they are significant.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1460 - 28/05/2021 21:36:29    2346173

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Replying To bloodyban:  "
Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "[quote=bad.monkey:  "saying to the other 6, "we got out our freedom, you should stop with the jealousy and bitterness" is a bit of a joke..

Who said this quote? I couldn't see on the thread...did you make it up to argue against ?"
" Do you make an effort to look at the Free State point of view...the pride we have in the 26 and the winning of the Civil War. Unfortunately youd swear the losers of the civil war were the goodies judging by the media these days. Iv played against Antrim and Down club teams a few times and they literally had no idea about the complexity of 'down south'. They were more ignorant of us then we were of Northern Ireland."

Read the above type of sentiment and you know perfectly well what I'm on about. It's called deducing what someone is spouting and getting to the heart of their argument. Thanks for your own detailed input or have you little to say."
I wrote the paragraph you're quoting and I don't know what your on about. I'm very straight talking and you should quit the deduction or you'll give yourself a headache.. I meant what I said and no more. I and many like me have pride in our country and feel no guilt whatsoever. The Free State did the best they could and fought a hard and bitter Civil war to stop the extremists and ultimately to prevent Lloyd George from sending over a tonne of soldiers to restore peace. Who knows what would have happened then. We might have no country or we might have been better off. Who knows. What I do know is I'm tired of the free ride Northern Republicans get in the media and online. Its constant victim ,victim stuff and we don't like it. Make Northern Ireland work...make an effort at least before you turn our place upside down aswell."]Guardian fever - the unquestioning belief in the moral righteousness of the underdog.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 28/05/2021 21:58:05    2346178

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Replying To 97Cavans:  "I think it is important to point out that the likes of Sammy Wilson and Paisley jnr are not an accurate representation of unionism anymore. Increasing numbers from a unionist tradition have more to do with the south than Britain. Increasingly younger members are starting to complete their studies in the south and are loving life with more job opportunities available to them down here. This sort of change is vital development in the unification process"
But that's the point, if there's more job opportunities available to people here, it stands to reason that taking on the 6 counties, who I assume from your post to be economically underperforming, will overall prove to be a burden on the citizens of the 26 counties.
The goodwill and romanticism won't be long evaporating then because I guarantee you, whatever the polls say,which is pretty much saying "yes" or "no" to a question, when push comes to shove, few people down south really truly care about the issue of unity.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 28/05/2021 22:03:18    2346181

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I agree that Sammy Wilson and Paisley aren't an accurate picture of Unionism. There is more Unionists completing their studies down South and working here aswell. However the opinion polls don't back up the idea that they want a United Ireland or that any of them are wavering. I think they are probably the most pragmatic people in these Islands but the only population changing is the another Catholic one which has a significant minority that want to remain as part of the UK. You won't hear them on a GAA forum but they are significant."
A bit of evidence please. I live here and the vast majority of Catholics support re-unification.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 141 - 28/05/2021 22:16:49    2346185

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Replying To Galway9801:  "But that's the point, if there's more job opportunities available to people here, it stands to reason that taking on the 6 counties, who I assume from your post to be economically underperforming, will overall prove to be a burden on the citizens of the 26 counties.
The goodwill and romanticism won't be long evaporating then because I guarantee you, whatever the polls say,which is pretty much saying "yes" or "no" to a question, when push comes to shove, few people down south really truly care about the issue of unity."
Everyone said that Getman re-unification was pie in the sky and look at it now. You fall into that bracket, I am of the opinion that with European and US financial aid the new Iteland will be an economic powerhouse.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 141 - 28/05/2021 22:19:56    2346186

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I agree that Sammy Wilson and Paisley aren't an accurate picture of Unionism. There is more Unionists completing their studies down South and working here aswell. However the opinion polls don't back up the idea that they want a United Ireland or that any of them are wavering. I think they are probably the most pragmatic people in these Islands but the only population changing is the another Catholic one which has a significant minority that want to remain as part of the UK. You won't hear them on a GAA forum but they are significant."
Well they are an accurate representation of Unionism, as they are returned with huge majorities to Parliament at every election they ever stood in- it was hardly Nationalists that voted for them..

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3032 - 28/05/2021 22:29:27    2346188

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Replying To Galway9801:  "But that's the point, if there's more job opportunities available to people here, it stands to reason that taking on the 6 counties, who I assume from your post to be economically underperforming, will overall prove to be a burden on the citizens of the 26 counties.
The goodwill and romanticism won't be long evaporating then because I guarantee you, whatever the polls say,which is pretty much saying "yes" or "no" to a question, when push comes to shove, few people down south really truly care about the issue of unity."
Ach there are umpteen potential economic benefits of the north and south joining. I'm not going to go into economics as there are much better pieces all over the internet which go into good detail about potential scenarios. But there is a basic economic principle which states "people are money". Provided you have proper economic structures in place, the more citizens you have working, the higher your chances of economic prosperity.
In my own mind, a United Ireland is unquestionably going to happen. I think 10 years is a bit optimistic, I think the recent public pole where the majority projected 25 years sounds about right to me. Having said that events like Brexit or Scotland can have a big influence. It is important to plan ahead and improve areas such as the current substandard health service, in preparation for the future.

97Cavans (Cavan) - Posts: 169 - 28/05/2021 22:42:12    2346192

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Replying To Galway9801:  "
Replying To bloodyban:  "[quote=Donegal_abroad:  "[quote=bad.monkey:  "saying to the other 6, "we got out our freedom, you should stop with the jealousy and bitterness" is a bit of a joke..

Who said this quote? I couldn't see on the thread...did you make it up to argue against ?"
" Do you make an effort to look at the Free State point of view...the pride we have in the 26 and the winning of the Civil War. Unfortunately youd swear the losers of the civil war were the goodies judging by the media these days. Iv played against Antrim and Down club teams a few times and they literally had no idea about the complexity of 'down south'. They were more ignorant of us then we were of Northern Ireland."

Read the above type of sentiment and you know perfectly well what I'm on about. It's called deducing what someone is spouting and getting to the heart of their argument. Thanks for your own detailed input or have you little to say."
I wrote the paragraph you're quoting and I don't know what your on about. I'm very straight talking and you should quit the deduction or you'll give yourself a headache.. I meant what I said and no more. I and many like me have pride in our country and feel no guilt whatsoever. The Free State did the best they could and fought a hard and bitter Civil war to stop the extremists and ultimately to prevent Lloyd George from sending over a tonne of soldiers to restore peace. Who knows what would have happened then. We might have no country or we might have been better off. Who knows. What I do know is I'm tired of the free ride Northern Republicans get in the media and online. Its constant victim ,victim stuff and we don't like it. Make Northern Ireland work...make an effort at least before you turn our place upside down aswell."]Guardian fever - the unquestioning belief in the moral righteousness of the underdog."]I have no headache I can assure you and all any of us are doing here is discussing or deducing so I'll continue that thanks very much .. if you've no idea what I'm on about then that's a shame.

I actually think the anti treaty side were correct in the civil war (controversial for many in the north I know.) De Valera turned out to be more of a free stater than the pro treaty side anyway, he played everyone for his own means. What I'm saying is that dividing the country was nothing to be proud of but it was the best case scenario in a conundrum. I believe Collins if he had lived would have at least tried to claim the 6 counties back. Leaving the north behind was nothing to be proud of and no matter what way you try and paint it, there is unfinished business. The free state that you talk of did not envisage or indeed cheerlead for an eternal division of Ireland the way you seem to do. They just had to get on with it.

The victim stuff towards northern nationalists is such a cheap shot though. You literally have no clue what it's like to have been left behind in an english puppet state that doesn't value you or culture.. which burned your parents or grandparents out of their home. Which circled your GAA field or hassled you on your way to training. Which left you politically and economically to the wolves for decades so you would stay on the ground where they wanted you... Your attempts to diminish this decades long experience for northern nationalists as 'victim stuff' is honestly pathetic. Easy to diminish people for surviving stuff you never had to while you lived in your quiet west of Ireland homestead.

I have pride in my country, all parts of it, occupied or unoccupied. I'm proud of my neighbours in Derry and Tyrone for surviving oppression. Just like I'm proud of the rest of Ireland for fighting back many decades before in the early 20th century. My respect for my fellow Irishmen doesn't stop at the Lifford bridge as it does in your worldview.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 980 - 28/05/2021 22:42:17    2346193

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "Everyone said that Getman re-unification was pie in the sky and look at it now. You fall into that bracket, I am of the opinion that with European and US financial aid the new Iteland will be an economic powerhouse."
In fairness that works both ways, there are doomsdayers on both sides, for everyone who says a United Ireland will fail (and I'm not saying that it will btw), there's those who say a dis united ireland will be a disaster.
The US is 27 trillion in debt,also, its profoundly changing demograph means that the Irish question just won't be as big a deal to new America going forward,, don't bet on the EU warming to the unified ireland either, countries like Spain would have no interest in watching us succeed, no EU country dealing with a separatist movement would.
But whatever happens things will go on, the world will keep turning.
In my opinion our reliance on debt, ageing populations, lack of modesty and discipline, and entitlement culture (which ties into our reliance on debt I guess) are far bigger threats to our stability than a 32 county Republic.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 28/05/2021 22:42:55    2346194

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I agree that Sammy Wilson and Paisley aren't an accurate picture of Unionism. There is more Unionists completing their studies down South and working here aswell. However the opinion polls don't back up the idea that they want a United Ireland or that any of them are wavering. I think they are probably the most pragmatic people in these Islands but the only population changing is the another Catholic one which has a significant minority that want to remain as part of the UK. You won't hear them on a GAA forum but they are significant."
That would be the same unionist vote that was 56% of all votes cast in elections 15 years ago and is now down to circa 41% and falling .....reality is there are 3 blocs of voters now 40% nationalist, 40% unionist and circa 20% who are vanilla on the constitutional question, will be swayed either way depending on economics, cultural and human rights etc .....that is the reality and the new census will back this up even more as the unionists make up circa 67% of those aged 65+ but are now less than 35% of those aged 40 and under

ArmaghCat (Armagh) - Posts: 86 - 29/05/2021 07:05:34    2346223

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Replying To 97Cavans:  "Ach there are umpteen potential economic benefits of the north and south joining. I'm not going to go into economics as there are much better pieces all over the internet which go into good detail about potential scenarios. But there is a basic economic principle which states "people are money". Provided you have proper economic structures in place, the more citizens you have working, the higher your chances of economic prosperity.
In my own mind, a United Ireland is unquestionably going to happen. I think 10 years is a bit optimistic, I think the recent public pole where the majority projected 25 years sounds about right to me. Having said that events like Brexit or Scotland can have a big influence. It is important to plan ahead and improve areas such as the current substandard health service, in preparation for the future."
For sure man, like i ain't no authority, tbh I'm just spit balling here,, it could be the greatest thing to happen to this island in God knows how long, and I agree with you it is inevitable.
People are money, and our population growth could mean economic prosperity but I would say however that we need to be clear on just what economic prosperity means.
For example when I was a wee lad (born in 85) ireland had a much smaller population than it has now, and my old man was able to pay a mortgage, and support a wife and three kids, just by driving a taxi. These days it's common for both the man and woman to work full time jobs and still struggle badly to even save up for a deposit, and, things are generally more expensive now, (taking inflation into account), and bus services, banking/postal services etc are being cut back,classrooms are bigger AFAIK and to top it all off, our debt is STILL rising.
So is economic prosperity the average man in the street living securely and comfortably? Or is it our gdp, which when it all boils down to it is just a figure on a computer screen.

I'd also opine that the silly right wing and left wing ideologues who are working hard to divide European and American society are just a generation away from rearing their grubby little heads here too.

Ah ignore me, I just got outta the wrong side of the bed this morning lol :-(

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 29/05/2021 11:16:27    2346241

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Replying To Galway9801:  "In fairness that works both ways, there are doomsdayers on both sides, for everyone who says a United Ireland will fail (and I'm not saying that it will btw), there's those who say a dis united ireland will be a disaster.
The US is 27 trillion in debt,also, its profoundly changing demograph means that the Irish question just won't be as big a deal to new America going forward,, don't bet on the EU warming to the unified ireland either, countries like Spain would have no interest in watching us succeed, no EU country dealing with a separatist movement would.
But whatever happens things will go on, the world will keep turning.
In my opinion our reliance on debt, ageing populations, lack of modesty and discipline, and entitlement culture (which ties into our reliance on debt I guess) are far bigger threats to our stability than a 32 county Republic."
Don't read too much into the US debt, the US have plenty reserves and a huge economy. Give me the US of A any day over the pathetic EU, Uncle Sam will be alright, don't worry about that.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 29/05/2021 11:20:41    2346244

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I don't know how anyone could have pride in the free state army winning the civil war. Some of their tactics and actions if they happened today would be classed as war crimes, even after the civil war ended they engaged in kidnapping and murder of individuals Sean Lemass brother Noel was 1 such victim and Sean Lemass himself has said he sat across the Dail chamber from those he knew organised his brothers murder. Atrocities aside Ireland being a small country with big community mentality brothers, cousins and neighbours shot 1 another during civil war and it took a long time for the country and its communities to come fully from the divide it caused and there is nothing of pride out of all that. Also the anti-treaty were by no means perfect but to describe them as extremeists is unfair and wrong.

I really can't get over the bitterness and hostility towards Northern nationalists from some on this forum. Any interactions I have had from people from the 6 counties be it at home in Ireland or when travelling and working abroad has being mostly pleasant. Why shouldn't they aspire to join the Republic of Ireland, they are every bit as Irish as us in the South. And the victims of the troubles and their families deserve to have their stories told and listened to and I include all sides in that.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 968 - 29/05/2021 11:21:21    2346245

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I don't know how anyone could have pride in the free state army winning the civil war. Some of their tactics and actions if they happened today would be classed as war crimes, even after the civil war ended they engaged in kidnapping and murder of individuals Sean Lemass brother Noel was 1 such victim and Sean Lemass himself has said he sat across the Dail chamber from those he knew organised his brothers murder. Atrocities aside Ireland being a small country with big community mentality brothers, cousins and neighbours shot 1 another during civil war and it took a long time for the country and its communities to come fully from the divide it caused and there is nothing of pride out of all that. Also the anti-treaty were by no means perfect but to describe them as extremeists is unfair and wrong.

I really can't get over the bitterness and hostility towards Northern nationalists from some on this forum. Any interactions I have had from people from the 6 counties be it at home in Ireland or when travelling and working abroad has being mostly pleasant. Why shouldn't they aspire to join the Republic of Ireland, they are every bit as Irish as us in the South. And the victims of the troubles and their families deserve to have their stories told and listened to and I include all sides in that."
Yes and if you look at it on a gender basis, the great majority of Cumann na mBan activists joined the anti-Treaty side. I think it's fair to say that the natural tendency for women is to be more conciliatory and less pro-violence so if the anti-Treaty side were as extreme as has been alleged, the majority would surely have joined the pro-Treaty side.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1565 - 29/05/2021 12:22:08    2346252

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I don't know how anyone could have pride in the free state army winning the civil war. Some of their tactics and actions if they happened today would be classed as war crimes, even after the civil war ended they engaged in kidnapping and murder of individuals Sean Lemass brother Noel was 1 such victim and Sean Lemass himself has said he sat across the Dail chamber from those he knew organised his brothers murder. Atrocities aside Ireland being a small country with big community mentality brothers, cousins and neighbours shot 1 another during civil war and it took a long time for the country and its communities to come fully from the divide it caused and there is nothing of pride out of all that. Also the anti-treaty were by no means perfect but to describe them as extremeists is unfair and wrong.

I really can't get over the bitterness and hostility towards Northern nationalists from some on this forum. Any interactions I have had from people from the 6 counties be it at home in Ireland or when travelling and working abroad has being mostly pleasant. Why shouldn't they aspire to join the Republic of Ireland, they are every bit as Irish as us in the South. And the victims of the troubles and their families deserve to have their stories told and listened to and I include all sides in that."
Has any department produced any estimated costing's of reunification in the year 2030 and calculated the percentage rise in taxes for the ordinary Joe ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 29/05/2021 12:43:57    2346258

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Replying To Galway9801:  "
Replying To bloodyban:  "[quote=Donegal_abroad:  "[quote=bad.monkey:  "saying to the other 6, "we got out our freedom, you should stop with the jealousy and bitterness" is a bit of a joke..

Who said this quote? I couldn't see on the thread...did you make it up to argue against ?"
" Do you make an effort to look at the Free State point of view...the pride we have in the 26 and the winning of the Civil War. Unfortunately youd swear the losers of the civil war were the goodies judging by the media these days. Iv played against Antrim and Down club teams a few times and they literally had no idea about the complexity of 'down south'. They were more ignorant of us then we were of Northern Ireland."

Read the above type of sentiment and you know perfectly well what I'm on about. It's called deducing what someone is spouting and getting to the heart of their argument. Thanks for your own detailed input or have you little to say."
I wrote the paragraph you're quoting and I don't know what your on about. I'm very straight talking and you should quit the deduction or you'll give yourself a headache.. I meant what I said and no more. I and many like me have pride in our country and feel no guilt whatsoever. The Free State did the best they could and fought a hard and bitter Civil war to stop the extremists and ultimately to prevent Lloyd George from sending over a tonne of soldiers to restore peace. Who knows what would have happened then. We might have no country or we might have been better off. Who knows. What I do know is I'm tired of the free ride Northern Republicans get in the media and online. Its constant victim ,victim stuff and we don't like it. Make Northern Ireland work...make an effort at least before you turn our place upside down aswell."]Guardian fever - the unquestioning belief in the moral righteousness of the underdog."]It is one thing being ignorant but another to advertise it on a post. Folk in the north part of our country also fought in that 'war' but got nothing in return except to be left in a statelet where Unionists made the laws for there own with Nationalists not even having a vote. The 'Civil war' you refer to ended up very bloody with extremists on both sides and I do not need to go there with some of the incidents carried out. The Southern part of our country has a obligation to return to a 32 county government and if this means a small subsidy to do that so be it - too late, too little, comes to mind just like they way our Government operates (even with all them spin doctors).

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2255 - 29/05/2021 12:46:51    2346259

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I don't know how anyone could have pride in the free state army winning the civil war. Some of their tactics and actions if they happened today would be classed as war crimes, even after the civil war ended they engaged in kidnapping and murder of individuals Sean Lemass brother Noel was 1 such victim and Sean Lemass himself has said he sat across the Dail chamber from those he knew organised his brothers murder. Atrocities aside Ireland being a small country with big community mentality brothers, cousins and neighbours shot 1 another during civil war and it took a long time for the country and its communities to come fully from the divide it caused and there is nothing of pride out of all that. Also the anti-treaty were by no means perfect but to describe them as extremeists is unfair and wrong.

I really can't get over the bitterness and hostility towards Northern nationalists from some on this forum. Any interactions I have had from people from the 6 counties be it at home in Ireland or when travelling and working abroad has being mostly pleasant. Why shouldn't they aspire to join the Republic of Ireland, they are every bit as Irish as us in the South. And the victims of the troubles and their families deserve to have their stories told and listened to and I include all sides in that."
Good balanced post and explains what many refuse to believe

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2255 - 29/05/2021 12:57:32    2346262

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I don't know how anyone could have pride in the free state army winning the civil war. Some of their tactics and actions if they happened today would be classed as war crimes, even after the civil war ended they engaged in kidnapping and murder of individuals Sean Lemass brother Noel was 1 such victim and Sean Lemass himself has said he sat across the Dail chamber from those he knew organised his brothers murder. Atrocities aside Ireland being a small country with big community mentality brothers, cousins and neighbours shot 1 another during civil war and it took a long time for the country and its communities to come fully from the divide it caused and there is nothing of pride out of all that. Also the anti-treaty were by no means perfect but to describe them as extremeists is unfair and wrong.

I really can't get over the bitterness and hostility towards Northern nationalists from some on this forum. Any interactions I have had from people from the 6 counties be it at home in Ireland or when travelling and working abroad has being mostly pleasant. Why shouldn't they aspire to join the Republic of Ireland, they are every bit as Irish as us in the South. And the victims of the troubles and their families deserve to have their stories told and listened to and I include all sides in that."
This country is 20 years at least past Civil War politics-even at the moment their in power together and you could argue Varadakar is more Republican in his statements than Martin ever is.
As for the animosity of certain poster's here to Northern Nationalist it's easy to see this people sitting in their comfy house's looking up at the 'animal's' inthe North killing each other and tut tutting about how terrible they all are up there. I don't think people in the South are in any position to criticise the behaviour of people unless they have lived through these situations and environments-who knows how we would react if we were put in similar situations. As for a Border poll the correct ground work hasn't been done from the South yet to convince Unionists but hopefully over the next 10 years it will be done because a Border poll at the moment is too hasty and would feel slightly forced. I believe if it was rejected in the future we should have a poll every 25 years thereafter to see if it changes or if support for the Union grows.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 492 - 29/05/2021 14:01:03    2346285

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Replying To bloodyban:  "
Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "[quote=bad.monkey:  "saying to the other 6, "we got out our freedom, you should stop with the jealousy and bitterness" is a bit of a joke..

Who said this quote? I couldn't see on the thread...did you make it up to argue against ?"
" Do you make an effort to look at the Free State point of view...the pride we have in the 26 and the winning of the Civil War. Unfortunately youd swear the losers of the civil war were the goodies judging by the media these days. Iv played against Antrim and Down club teams a few times and they literally had no idea about the complexity of 'down south'. They were more ignorant of us then we were of Northern Ireland."

Read the above type of sentiment and you know perfectly well what I'm on about. It's called deducing what someone is spouting and getting to the heart of their argument. Thanks for your own detailed input or have you little to say."
I wrote the paragraph you're quoting and I don't know what your on about. I'm very straight talking and you should quit the deduction or you'll give yourself a headache.. I meant what I said and no more. I and many like me have pride in our country and feel no guilt whatsoever. The Free State did the best they could and fought a hard and bitter Civil war to stop the extremists and ultimately to prevent Lloyd George from sending over a tonne of soldiers to restore peace. Who knows what would have happened then. We might have no country or we might have been better off. Who knows. What I do know is I'm tired of the free ride Northern Republicans get in the media and online. Its constant victim ,victim stuff and we don't like it. Make Northern Ireland work...make an effort at least before you turn our place upside down aswell."]There's a lot of irony and hypocrisy from people with your mindset. It's not surprising though from an admirer of Eoghan Harris such as yourself. When it comes to the Civil War, extremism wasn't exclusive to the anti-Treaty side. The extremists on the Free State side committed atrocities e.g Ballyseedy and Ballintrillick, Sligo.

Having lived/worked in the 6 Counties for almost a decade, your ignorance about the North is something to behold. It must have been very hard for you recently to have to put up with the inconvenience of the families of those murdered at Ballymurphy finally getting acknowledgement that their dead relatives were innocent.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 817 - 29/05/2021 14:02:58    2346286

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See the topic has turned to the civil war. I get the feeling some have a wrong impression about the Irish civil war. The partition of Ireland was largely not the reason for the civil war, more the face that the free state was not a republic (we had to recognise the king of England as our head of state). The expectation when the civil war broke out was that a lot of territory in Northern Ireland would be transferred to the south as the boundary commission was suspossed to transfer territory based on the demographics of various areas (Derry city and other areas were expected to be transferred to the free state), it was largely duplicity that this did not happen and after the civil war and the free state was too weak and divided to put up much objections.
Another irony of the civil war is that despite the civil war the anti and pro treaty side of the civil war cooperated in sending arms to the north.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 920 - 29/05/2021 14:11:51    2346288

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