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The GAA And "Northern Ireland"

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Replying To Ailteoir:  "
Replying To bloodyban:  "[quote=Donegal_abroad:  "[quote=bad.monkey:  "saying to the other 6, "we got out our freedom, you should stop with the jealousy and bitterness" is a bit of a joke..

Who said this quote? I couldn't see on the thread...did you make it up to argue against ?"
" Do you make an effort to look at the Free State point of view...the pride we have in the 26 and the winning of the Civil War. Unfortunately youd swear the losers of the civil war were the goodies judging by the media these days. Iv played against Antrim and Down club teams a few times and they literally had no idea about the complexity of 'down south'. They were more ignorant of us then we were of Northern Ireland."

Read the above type of sentiment and you know perfectly well what I'm on about. It's called deducing what someone is spouting and getting to the heart of their argument. Thanks for your own detailed input or have you little to say."
I wrote the paragraph you're quoting and I don't know what your on about. I'm very straight talking and you should quit the deduction or you'll give yourself a headache.. I meant what I said and no more. I and many like me have pride in our country and feel no guilt whatsoever. The Free State did the best they could and fought a hard and bitter Civil war to stop the extremists and ultimately to prevent Lloyd George from sending over a tonne of soldiers to restore peace. Who knows what would have happened then. We might have no country or we might have been better off. Who knows. What I do know is I'm tired of the free ride Northern Republicans get in the media and online. Its constant victim ,victim stuff and we don't like it. Make Northern Ireland work...make an effort at least before you turn our place upside down aswell."]There's a lot of irony and hypocrisy from people with your mindset. It's not surprising though from an admirer of Eoghan Harris such as yourself. When it comes to the Civil War, extremism wasn't exclusive to the anti-Treaty side. The extremists on the Free State side committed atrocities e.g Ballyseedy and Ballintrillick, Sligo.

Having lived/worked in the 6 Counties for almost a decade, your ignorance about the North is something to behold. It must have been very hard for you recently to have to put up with the inconvenience of the families of those murdered at Ballymurphy finally getting acknowledgement that their dead relatives were innocent."]I lived in Northern Ireland for 3 years. Had an enjoyable time there. Like I said, I got on well with both sides but probably had more in common with the Unionists, socially. So I'm not ignorant of the history, I just have a different point of view than you. You can read Irish history and see that the Unionists are right and the Nationalists are right.. bringing up individual atrocities is fine but there's plenty on both sides.
I note when people here talk about their fellow country men in Northern Ireland they don't mean the Unionists. They arent considered. Thats a big problem. We owe the Nationalists up there nothing...not a thing. They have equality and parity of opportunity.
The Civil war.. most on here are Anti Treaty..Its the popular Sinn fein,leftie working class, liberal thing isn't it. Id reject all that. All I can say is I'm proud of the pro treaty side and how they destroyed their enemy quickly and ruthlessly and then handed over power when they were voted out.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1460 - 29/05/2021 15:56:04    2346302

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This country is 20 years at least past Civil War politics-even at the moment their in power together and you could argue Varadakar is more Republican in his statements than Martin ever is.
As for the animosity of certain poster's here to Northern Nationalist it's easy to see this people sitting in their comfy house's looking up at the 'animal's' inthe North killing each other and tut tutting about how terrible they all are up there. I don't think people in the South are in any position to criticise the behaviour of people unless they have lived through these situations and environments-who knows how we would react if we were put in similar situations. As for a Border poll the correct ground work hasn't been done from the South yet to convince Unionists but hopefully over the next 10 years it will be done because a Border poll at the moment is too hasty and would feel slightly forced. I believe if it was rejected in the future we should have a poll every 25 years thereafter to see if it changes or if support for the Union grows.

Correct. I would add that before anyone criticises people in the North. They should fully immerse themselves in what actually happened there from partition through to what is recognised as 'the troubles'. It is also mildly difficult to fully understand 'the conflict' from 1968 through to the present day because many of the lead protagonists are not interested in the truth being known. The full truth would render any notion of the British State being an honest broker as the lie that many know it to be. The truth will also not set many unionist people free. Their faith in the UK state will be shaken to its core. Many republicans will also shake their heads and say 'what was all that for'. When the good Friday agreement was signed, victims and survivors were not central to the agreement. Their was no 'Truth' clause in the agreement. This was intentional and to its detriment.
Until the full truth is written and understood. There will be no proper reconciliation. We will lurch from crisis to crisis and never be able to move forward in a spirit of respect and understanding.

There was no glory in killing. It was wrong. All of it!

Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 253 - 29/05/2021 16:11:10    2346308

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Replying To updwell:  "This country is 20 years at least past Civil War politics-even at the moment their in power together and you could argue Varadakar is more Republican in his statements than Martin ever is.
As for the animosity of certain poster's here to Northern Nationalist it's easy to see this people sitting in their comfy house's looking up at the 'animal's' inthe North killing each other and tut tutting about how terrible they all are up there. I don't think people in the South are in any position to criticise the behaviour of people unless they have lived through these situations and environments-who knows how we would react if we were put in similar situations. As for a Border poll the correct ground work hasn't been done from the South yet to convince Unionists but hopefully over the next 10 years it will be done because a Border poll at the moment is too hasty and would feel slightly forced. I believe if it was rejected in the future we should have a poll every 25 years thereafter to see if it changes or if support for the Union grows."
I would like to see a united Ireland myself as it just feels right. Obviously in a GAA forum posters from northern counties are going to be over whelming nationalists so probably a good place to ask a question to northern nationalists.
If you actually want a united Ireland why would you rush a vote to a time when you will probably lose. Would you not be better off waiting until the demographics work more in your favour to a time you would be more likely to win?.
To me it seems strange that it is the nationalists, who seem to be consistently growing as a percentage over time, are pushing for a vote at the moment.
If I was a unionist I'd want a vote now as I would be confident of winning by a clear cut margin which would put talk of unity off for a long time.
Is there something I'm missing in this debate?.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 920 - 29/05/2021 16:28:05    2346311

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Replying To bloodyban:  "
Replying To Ailteoir:  "[quote=bloodyban:  "[quote=Donegal_abroad:  "[quote=bad.monkey:  "saying to the other 6, "we got out our freedom, you should stop with the jealousy and bitterness" is a bit of a joke..

Who said this quote? I couldn't see on the thread...did you make it up to argue against ?"
" Do you make an effort to look at the Free State point of view...the pride we have in the 26 and the winning of the Civil War. Unfortunately youd swear the losers of the civil war were the goodies judging by the media these days. Iv played against Antrim and Down club teams a few times and they literally had no idea about the complexity of 'down south'. They were more ignorant of us then we were of Northern Ireland."

Read the above type of sentiment and you know perfectly well what I'm on about. It's called deducing what someone is spouting and getting to the heart of their argument. Thanks for your own detailed input or have you little to say."
I wrote the paragraph you're quoting and I don't know what your on about. I'm very straight talking and you should quit the deduction or you'll give yourself a headache.. I meant what I said and no more. I and many like me have pride in our country and feel no guilt whatsoever. The Free State did the best they could and fought a hard and bitter Civil war to stop the extremists and ultimately to prevent Lloyd George from sending over a tonne of soldiers to restore peace. Who knows what would have happened then. We might have no country or we might have been better off. Who knows. What I do know is I'm tired of the free ride Northern Republicans get in the media and online. Its constant victim ,victim stuff and we don't like it. Make Northern Ireland work...make an effort at least before you turn our place upside down aswell."]There's a lot of irony and hypocrisy from people with your mindset. It's not surprising though from an admirer of Eoghan Harris such as yourself. When it comes to the Civil War, extremism wasn't exclusive to the anti-Treaty side. The extremists on the Free State side committed atrocities e.g Ballyseedy and Ballintrillick, Sligo.

Having lived/worked in the 6 Counties for almost a decade, your ignorance about the North is something to behold. It must have been very hard for you recently to have to put up with the inconvenience of the families of those murdered at Ballymurphy finally getting acknowledgement that their dead relatives were innocent."]I lived in Northern Ireland for 3 years. Had an enjoyable time there. Like I said, I got on well with both sides but probably had more in common with the Unionists, socially. So I'm not ignorant of the history, I just have a different point of view than you. You can read Irish history and see that the Unionists are right and the Nationalists are right.. bringing up individual atrocities is fine but there's plenty on both sides.
I note when people here talk about their fellow country men in Northern Ireland they don't mean the Unionists. They arent considered. Thats a big problem. We owe the Nationalists up there nothing...not a thing. They have equality and parity of opportunity.
The Civil war.. most on here are Anti Treaty..Its the popular Sinn fein,leftie working class, liberal thing isn't it. Id reject all that. All I can say is I'm proud of the pro treaty side and how they destroyed their enemy quickly and ruthlessly and then handed over power when they were voted out."]I've no problem with Unionists who want to get along with their Catholic / Nationalist counterparts. Unlike yourself, who has no time for Nationalists there full stop.

Whether you like it or not, Nationalists have been a majority in the North west of the Bann for some time and in the near future will be a majority in the 6 Counties. The hypocrisy of "It's ok to have them involved in government up there but not down here", may have to be dealt with sooner than you'd like.

As for your pride in the 'ruthlessness' of the Free State in the Civil War. Taking pride in actions such as tying men to a land mine [Ballyseedy] or shooting them at point blank range after surrendering [Ballintrillick], says it all.

"They have equality and parity of opportunity" - that's an interesting one. If you really think that, then if you lived there at all, you must have been wearing blinkers.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 817 - 29/05/2021 16:46:16    2346316

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As A republican and my fore fathers before me I would love a united Ireland but I wonder how all this would work out. Number one until Britain take Northern Ireland off the teat and the republic offer them something better it probable won't happen. If it does happen how will it work ? Take Canada for example. The bloc party in Quebec oppose being part of Canada. Now as part of Canada there M.P.'s are elected to the federal government the same as every other party. They have a major influence on policy in the country that they d'ont approve of and want to break up. The unionist are not going to go away because Ireland is united and probably sit in the Dail opposing and disturbing our democracy. Be careful about getting what you ask for or like and definitely don't trust politicians to get it right.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1444 - 29/05/2021 17:34:30    2346334

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Haven't been on here in a while...I see our regular free state unionists are getting worried...

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1850 - 29/05/2021 23:45:37    2346417

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Replying To Canuck:  "As A republican and my fore fathers before me I would love a united Ireland but I wonder how all this would work out. Number one until Britain take Northern Ireland off the teat and the republic offer them something better it probable won't happen. If it does happen how will it work ? Take Canada for example. The bloc party in Quebec oppose being part of Canada. Now as part of Canada there M.P.'s are elected to the federal government the same as every other party. They have a major influence on policy in the country that they d'ont approve of and want to break up. The unionist are not going to go away because Ireland is united and probably sit in the Dail opposing and disturbing our democracy. Be careful about getting what you ask for or like and definitely don't trust politicians to get it right."
Most democracies make room for parties with differing ideas. They would just have to state their own policies and see who they can work with. I've no doubt they will find enough friends in an all Ireland government to make themselves heard and to represent their community. I wouldn't want it any other way either.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4225 - 30/05/2021 21:11:14    2346698

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What changes should the GAA make in the event of United Ireland.
What accomodations would the GAA be willing to make to attract 1.8 million British people living in this Island to play, watch and support football and hurling ? What do the GAA need to do to get British Parents to brings their kids down to their local GAA club to play Gaelic games and not feel intimidated or unwelcome or feel their protestant religion or Unionist political beliefs are despised and distained ?

The kind of changes needed are a complete breakaway from the catholic and nationalist origins from which the GAA was founded.
All clubs with catholic saint names, republican / nationalist Martyrs should be renamed as first step to by the GAA to reach out to the British community to join the GAA.

I am not Advocating to forget the GAAs past, but to evolve and look to the future, a future that brings community's together instead of continuing with the status Quo of segregation especially in the North.

The most important question is why should the GAA wait for a United Ireland that may or may not happen to evolve and change to welcome British/Protestants/Unionist into the GAA?

Tirchonaillabu2012 (Donegal) - Posts: 6 - 30/05/2021 21:34:17    2346711

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Replying To Tirchonaillabu2012:  "What changes should the GAA make in the event of United Ireland.
What accomodations would the GAA be willing to make to attract 1.8 million British people living in this Island to play, watch and support football and hurling ? What do the GAA need to do to get British Parents to brings their kids down to their local GAA club to play Gaelic games and not feel intimidated or unwelcome or feel their protestant religion or Unionist political beliefs are despised and distained ?

The kind of changes needed are a complete breakaway from the catholic and nationalist origins from which the GAA was founded.
All clubs with catholic saint names, republican / nationalist Martyrs should be renamed as first step to by the GAA to reach out to the British community to join the GAA.

I am not Advocating to forget the GAAs past, but to evolve and look to the future, a future that brings community's together instead of continuing with the status Quo of segregation especially in the North.

The most important question is why should the GAA wait for a United Ireland that may or may not happen to evolve and change to welcome British/Protestants/Unionist into the GAA?"
I presume non-Roman "Saints" are exempted since they where around pre-reformation? Like St Patrick, Brigid, Columcille etc since they are not "real" Saints. But we only have 4 "official" saints, St Oliver Plunket, St Malachy, St Charles and Laurence O'Toole. Now what about "Protestant" republicans? We should elevate those? or decommission, Wolfe Tone, Thomas Russell, Henry Joy McCracken, William Orr, Lord Edward Fitzgerald, the brothers Sheares, Archibald Hamilton Rowan, Valentine Lawless.
And of course we have to rename the Sam Maguire Cup too, even though he was a Protestant. I look forward to playing for The Edward Cason Cup.
Maybe elevate anti-republicans to club names, Conor Cruise O'Brien, Eoghan Harris et all

Of course we could just ignore this and continue on our merry way.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4669 - 30/05/2021 23:07:29    2346756

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While the GAA can make changes to welcome those off a unionist background. In my experience living in the north of Ireland /Northern Ireland ( pick your flavour) any young boy or girl from a protestant background interested in partaking in Gaelic games will face hostility from among their own community to not play. I look at underage soccer and rugby teams locally, easily half come from a catholic back ground. Flip it and look at how many young kids from the protestant community play Gaelic sports and you would be luck to count on one hand the numbers crossing the divide. So its not as simple as welcoming, a deep seated anonymity has to be over come from within the unionist community which will take time and is only changeable in part by that community its self.

TheFerm (Fermanagh) - Posts: 3 - 30/05/2021 23:49:36    2346764

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Replying To bumpernut:  "Haven't been on here in a while...I see our regular free state unionists are getting worried..."
It's a scary enough viewpoint from some alright.

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2506 - 31/05/2021 00:07:01    2346770

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Replying To Tirchonaillabu2012:  "What changes should the GAA make in the event of United Ireland.
What accomodations would the GAA be willing to make to attract 1.8 million British people living in this Island to play, watch and support football and hurling ? What do the GAA need to do to get British Parents to brings their kids down to their local GAA club to play Gaelic games and not feel intimidated or unwelcome or feel their protestant religion or Unionist political beliefs are despised and distained ?

The kind of changes needed are a complete breakaway from the catholic and nationalist origins from which the GAA was founded.
All clubs with catholic saint names, republican / nationalist Martyrs should be renamed as first step to by the GAA to reach out to the British community to join the GAA.

I am not Advocating to forget the GAAs past, but to evolve and look to the future, a future that brings community's together instead of continuing with the status Quo of segregation especially in the North.

The most important question is why should the GAA wait for a United Ireland that may or may not happen to evolve and change to welcome British/Protestants/Unionist into the GAA?"
What you advocate cuts both ways Tirchonaill.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5489 - 31/05/2021 00:16:12    2346772

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Replying To Tirchonaillabu2012:  "What changes should the GAA make in the event of United Ireland.
What accomodations would the GAA be willing to make to attract 1.8 million British people living in this Island to play, watch and support football and hurling ? What do the GAA need to do to get British Parents to brings their kids down to their local GAA club to play Gaelic games and not feel intimidated or unwelcome or feel their protestant religion or Unionist political beliefs are despised and distained ?

The kind of changes needed are a complete breakaway from the catholic and nationalist origins from which the GAA was founded.
All clubs with catholic saint names, republican / nationalist Martyrs should be renamed as first step to by the GAA to reach out to the British community to join the GAA.

I am not Advocating to forget the GAAs past, but to evolve and look to the future, a future that brings community's together instead of continuing with the status Quo of segregation especially in the North.

The most important question is why should the GAA wait for a United Ireland that may or may not happen to evolve and change to welcome British/Protestants/Unionist into the GAA?"
Fair enough if for example the club is named after a guy who advocated killing unionists,then it's probably wise to rename it, but if a unionist refuses to play for a club simply because its named after a Saint from a different faith, then imo he/she is the problem, not the other way round, and any unionist who feels that strongly is unlikely to want anything to do with the GAA anyway.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 31/05/2021 00:16:50    2346773

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Replying To seanie_boy:  "Most democracies make room for parties with differing ideas. They would just have to state their own policies and see who they can work with. I've no doubt they will find enough friends in an all Ireland government to make themselves heard and to represent their community. I wouldn't want it any other way either."
Hopefully but I don't think there are parties in many country like the bloc in Canada who want to break up the country and can have influence on legislation etc. Don't you think if the Unionist are opposed to unification of Ireland they will continue to do so in a united Ireland and be much the same as the bloc.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1444 - 31/05/2021 14:41:18    2346996

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Replying To arock:  "I presume non-Roman "Saints" are exempted since they where around pre-reformation? Like St Patrick, Brigid, Columcille etc since they are not "real" Saints. But we only have 4 "official" saints, St Oliver Plunket, St Malachy, St Charles and Laurence O'Toole. Now what about "Protestant" republicans? We should elevate those? or decommission, Wolfe Tone, Thomas Russell, Henry Joy McCracken, William Orr, Lord Edward Fitzgerald, the brothers Sheares, Archibald Hamilton Rowan, Valentine Lawless.
And of course we have to rename the Sam Maguire Cup too, even though he was a Protestant. I look forward to playing for The Edward Cason Cup.
Maybe elevate anti-republicans to club names, Conor Cruise O'Brien, Eoghan Harris et all

Of course we could just ignore this and continue on our merry way."
Wolfe Tones is a GAA club in Shannon Co. Clare.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 322 - 31/05/2021 15:28:06    2347030

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40 years ago we took our kids on a vacation up the west coast staying in the Ryan Hotels. When we were in Galway and the kids were asleep we would come down and have drink in the bar. The first night we sat next to a couple and started chatting. They were from Tyrone and told us they had gone the opposite way and were going home ending their vacation early, tomorrow. Did not give much reason other than they did not feel comfortable. We discussed all things that people with small kids do but nothing political or religion. I assume they would have guessed what we were. When they stood up to retire I said if you change your mind we will be in the same spot tomorrow night. They stayed 3 more nights and we left the hotel at the same time.
I tell this story because I believe people have more in common than divide them. Fanatics and politicians stoke fires. The only reference to anything, he was a farmer, with tears in his eyes talking about neighbours said his neighbour was shot at the end of his the lane. No reference to side or religion.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1444 - 31/05/2021 16:53:35    2347094

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Replying To Tirchonaillabu2012:  "What changes should the GAA make in the event of United Ireland.
What accomodations would the GAA be willing to make to attract 1.8 million British people living in this Island to play, watch and support football and hurling ? What do the GAA need to do to get British Parents to brings their kids down to their local GAA club to play Gaelic games and not feel intimidated or unwelcome or feel their protestant religion or Unionist political beliefs are despised and distained ?

The kind of changes needed are a complete breakaway from the catholic and nationalist origins from which the GAA was founded.
All clubs with catholic saint names, republican / nationalist Martyrs should be renamed as first step to by the GAA to reach out to the British community to join the GAA.

I am not Advocating to forget the GAAs past, but to evolve and look to the future, a future that brings community's together instead of continuing with the status Quo of segregation especially in the North.

The most important question is why should the GAA wait for a United Ireland that may or may not happen to evolve and change to welcome British/Protestants/Unionist into the GAA?"
There's not 1.8 million "British People" as you call them living on the Island of Ireland and you know that as well as I do, and if you think there is, there's not much point in having a border poll at all !

If you're referring to the Unionist / Loyalist community , they'll have absolutely nothing to do with the GAA, they despise the organization and look at the games as something only neanderthals play, and you ask what concessions should be made to attract these people just in case their feelings might get hurt.

Do you think they will stop burning tricolors or effigies of the Pope in case it might hurt Catholic/Nationalist/Republican feelings ? Never.

No to concessions.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 31/05/2021 19:00:12    2347136

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Replying To Canuck:  "40 years ago we took our kids on a vacation up the west coast staying in the Ryan Hotels. When we were in Galway and the kids were asleep we would come down and have drink in the bar. The first night we sat next to a couple and started chatting. They were from Tyrone and told us they had gone the opposite way and were going home ending their vacation early, tomorrow. Did not give much reason other than they did not feel comfortable. We discussed all things that people with small kids do but nothing political or religion. I assume they would have guessed what we were. When they stood up to retire I said if you change your mind we will be in the same spot tomorrow night. They stayed 3 more nights and we left the hotel at the same time.
I tell this story because I believe people have more in common than divide them. Fanatics and politicians stoke fires. The only reference to anything, he was a farmer, with tears in his eyes talking about neighbours said his neighbour was shot at the end of his the lane. No reference to side or religion."
That's true canuck but human beings tend to focus more on what divides them, not what unites them.
It's just our nature I guess.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 622 - 31/05/2021 20:00:08    2347156

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "There's not 1.8 million "British People" as you call them living on the Island of Ireland and you know that as well as I do, and if you think there is, there's not much point in having a border poll at all !

If you're referring to the Unionist / Loyalist community , they'll have absolutely nothing to do with the GAA, they despise the organization and look at the games as something only neanderthals play, and you ask what concessions should be made to attract these people just in case their feelings might get hurt.

Do you think they will stop burning tricolors or effigies of the Pope in case it might hurt Catholic/Nationalist/Republican feelings ? Never.

No to concessions."
Why no concessions? We've already got rid of the like Rules 21, 27, and 42 which have all been abolished. So we have made concessions.

Are you OK with convicted Republicans and Slavers being on the name of clubs and cups in the North? Honestly lad, don't talk bs when you're clearly wrong. Organisations make concessions all the time on their hardline stances as they grow and the GAA is no different. Things like this need to be conceeded no matter if the PUL community is asking for it. We need to move past some things, and these are some of them.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1099 - 31/05/2021 20:29:33    2347170

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Replying To Tirchonaillabu2012:  "What changes should the GAA make in the event of United Ireland.
What accomodations would the GAA be willing to make to attract 1.8 million British people living in this Island to play, watch and support football and hurling ? What do the GAA need to do to get British Parents to brings their kids down to their local GAA club to play Gaelic games and not feel intimidated or unwelcome or feel their protestant religion or Unionist political beliefs are despised and distained ?

The kind of changes needed are a complete breakaway from the catholic and nationalist origins from which the GAA was founded.
All clubs with catholic saint names, republican / nationalist Martyrs should be renamed as first step to by the GAA to reach out to the British community to join the GAA.

I am not Advocating to forget the GAAs past, but to evolve and look to the future, a future that brings community's together instead of continuing with the status Quo of segregation especially in the North.

The most important question is why should the GAA wait for a United Ireland that may or may not happen to evolve and change to welcome British/Protestants/Unionist into the GAA?"
Where are these 1.8 million brits? 750,000 with a tail wind would be nearer the figure. There was enough bending over backwards when foreign sports got the keys to Croke Park. They have their North West 200 and we'll keep the GAA the way it is. No GAA clubs or county's are doing anything wrong so what's the fuss.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 650 - 31/05/2021 21:07:57    2347182

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