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Meath V Dublin Leinster Final.

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Replying To Htaem:  "Ye it'll be a tough game against Donegal, we owe them one ;-)"
Definitely. The battle of the green and gold. Really looking forward to the all ire semi final against Donegal or maybe Cavan. Either will do. We will be there anyway :)

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17038 - 20/11/2020 20:35:36    2311835

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "
Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "You're a bit all over the shop with this post and putting words in the mouth of Dub fans that I don't think are reflective of current thinking (in my opinion anyway):

But they have lost great defenders like Sullivan McMahon Brennan O Carroll McCaffrey

- Philly, ROC and Cian O'Sullivan (Cillian O'S plays for Meath) are still on the Dublin panel. Philly played against Laois last weekend. Their best days may be behind them but they're not write offs yet
- Brennan had value - he was tough, hard to get the ball off, positionally astute and had good distribution but was, for a while, considered a bit of a liability, hadn't great pace and I've never heard him described a great defender
- Jack McCaffrey - I'll give you JMC, he was / is quality

But for me they are no Tommy Drum.or kieth Barr or Paul Curran, Gerry Hargan or Paddy Christie or Cilliam Sullivan or Phily McMahon

- Keith Barr was a good player but not the best defender ever. His cavalier role in 1992 went a long way towards costing Dublin the All-Ireland
- Paddy was quality but had too many injuries to be considered "great"
- TD, PC and GH are all highly considered by Dubs (that I've talked to)

Im sure the Dubs will say Small.Muchian and McDaid are great defenders.

I've yet to hear a single Dub say anything of the sort.
- Small is very consistent and very good at nullifying an opponent but had / has his disciplinary issues and wouldn't be considered the most dynamic
- McDaid has only really got a slot in the starting line up this year and he's 26/27
- I've a lot of time for Murchan but he hasn't 100% nailed down a spot in the Dublin team, which would be one of the criteria for greatness. He's only 24, to be fair

I know Muchiam great attacking wing back. But as defenders for Me Philiy McMahon woule be much better defender.

Philly is 6'0 and a powerhouse, Murchan is 5'7 and a speedster. You're comparing chalk and cheese. However, I'm struggling to think of anyone who's gotten the better of Murchan when he's played in the championship

Your overall argument appears to pick Dublin's (and others') best (or most high profile) defenders from a previous era and compare them with the perceived weaker links in the current defence. No team has 6 defenders who will go down as "greats" at any one time and you can't make a valid conclusion from comparing the strongest you cherry pick from various eras with some relative newcomers."
I said I could be clutching at straws. I expected your comments. The Dublin defence had an aura about it in 2015 2016 2017 great great defenders. Your marking Phily McMahon the guy is a household name. Certain defenders had an aura Mick Lyons Niall Callahane Ciaran McGeeney. John Small is a good quality defender. But he is not at the level of Tommy Drumm Paul Curran James Mccarthy. He might become that level. But he is not as legendary and have the aura as Philiy McMahon. If your 19 and you were marking Phily McMahon in 2016 that was scary. John Small might become as great as McMahon but he doesnt have the aura. As I said maybe I am clutching straws. We have to believe there is a chance. Its highly unlikely. I think rationally we dont win. But emotions and passions and the rivalry of old I have to believe we have a chance. If I was outside Meath I would say we dont have a chance. No one gave Cork but because of the rivalry Cork stuck in and won. I know we could lose by 15. If I take emotional out of it, it looks like 8 to 12 point win for Dublin. But its no crime to believe in your county. Surely we are allowed to shout support and believe. Whats the point in turning up. So I an looking for some cinks in this Dublin machine. Maybe I am clutching at straws. Maybe Dessie Farrell Dublin is weaker then Galvins Dublin. Or maybe Dessie Farrell is Bob Paisley and Jim Galvin was Bill Shankley. Meaning Farrell will be more sucessful.

Regards great defences I can think of many great great defence with 5 or 6 great defenders. Take kerry defence of 00s. Compare it to now. Not one current kerry defender wud get on the team. 3 footballer of the year. Moyihan T O Se M O Se. Three incredible defenders. Two O Ses are two of the greatest defenders ever. Moyihan is the greatest defender I ever saw. Paul McGrath of gaelic football. Tom Sullivan excellent defender. So was Mike Mccarthy and was so Aidan O Mahoney. Brillant defenders. Dublin team defence that won 5 in a row with one of the greatest defences ever. Quality defenders like Cooper Firzimons Mcarthy O Carroll McMahon. Meath defence of 87 88. 2 footballers of the year. Michael O Muirtigh said footballer of tge year Robbie O Malley was the best corner back he ever saw player. Martin O Connell another footballler of the year, was voted greatest left half back of all time, only modern player on team of millenium. Mick lyons was the greatest full back of 80s and one of the great full backs of all time and the most legendary full back time. Liam Harnan was toughest Meath defender but brillant hard as nails defender who was rarely passed or bettered. Terry Ferguson was quality all star defender one of the best corner backs of his generation. Kevin Foley was quality defender also tough as nail and thd hardest working defender ever to play for Meath. I have never seen a player win so much breaking ball. Underated quality defender. Meath defence of 80s was one of the all time great defences.

Kerry defence of 70s 80s John O keefe is one of the greatest full backs of all time. Paudi O Se is one greatest defenders of all time. Jimmy Deenihan one of the great corner backs of his generation. Tadgh kennelly was for me greatest kerry centre back of the last 50 years along with Moyihnan
Tom Spillane was underated but was a top class great defender. Sean Walsh was a brillant full back. And I never mentioned Ger Lynch Mick Spillane Tommy Doyle quality defenders.

Dublin team of 70s. Sean Doherty is the toughest and hardest full back of the last 50 years. A great full back. Kevin Moran if he stayed would have become the reatest centre back ever to play the game. Tommy Drum was the classiest best Dublin defender ever until James Mccarthy. Pat O Neill was tough as nails, brillant defender. Kelleher was tight tough brillant corner. Tyrone team of 00s. Late Cormac McAllen was becoming one of the greatest players ever to play for Tyrone. Was a great defender. Ryan McMenanin another great defender. One of the great corner backs of the last 30 years. Harte Gormley Jordan is one of the greatest half back lines of the last 30 years. Jordan was class, Gormley was underated one of best centre backs of last 20 years. And Harte also underated at his peak best attacking number 5 in the country. There also other other legendary defences Offaly team of the early 70s led by Paddy McCormack considered to be toughest hardest and best defence ever to come of leinster by many. Won 2 Sams and hammered kerry in an All Ireland final. Kerry defence of 50s led by greatest number 5 ever Sean Murphy also is considered one of the all time great defences. Only for Meath beating them in 54 they would have won 4 in a row. They won Sam in 1952 1953 1955. Cavan team of 40s 50s had one great all time defences with great like Smyth, O Reilly and greatest Ulster defender ever possibly John Joe Reilly.

Dublin 2010s ( 1 footballer of the year)
James Mccarthy Cillian Sullivan Rory O Carroll Phily mcMahon Ger Brennan Jack Mccaffrey Johnny Cooper
Tyrone 00s
Cormac McAllen Ryan McNemin Philip Jordan Conor Gormley Davy Harte
Kerry 00s ( 3 footballers of the year Moynihan T O Se M O Se)
Seamus Moyihan Tomas O Se Marc O Se Tom Sullivan Mike Mccarthy Aiden O Mahoney
Meath 80s ( 2 Footballers of the year O Malley O Connell)
Mick lyons Martin O Connell Robbie O Malley Liam Harnan Terry Ferguson
Kerrys late 70s early 80s ( 1 Footballer of the year O Keefe)
John O Keefe Paudi O Se Tadgh Kennelly Jimmy Deenihan Tom Spillane Sean Walsh Ger Power ( Power was a wing back for while)
Dublin late 70s early 80s ( 1 Footballer of the year Drum)
Tommy Drum Sean Doherty Kevin Moran Pat O Neill Gerry Hargan Robbie kelleher

Just regards Keith Barr. Barr was a brillant defender. Yes in 92 the half back line attacked to much. But Barr was class. Tough skilful brillant defender. That half back line Curran Barr Heery is one the great half back lines of the last 30 year. Curran along with Drumm and Mcarthy are Dublins greatest ever defenders. Paul Curran was a class act of a defender he could do anything. And Eamon Heery very underated. Tough as nails. But brillant defender. Top class. I dont care anyone says Curran Barr and Heery would walk on to current Dublin team. That Dublin defence was brillant. Hargan only for Mick lyons would have best best full back in Ireland. And Mick kennedy to this day is the goughest corner back I ever saw. But also brillant natural defender. Its my just opinion. Im sure others have different opinions. Thats my last message for a while. Im sure many will be happy with that."
I love Philly, he's a cult figure, hard as nails and made the best out of his talent, had a couple of years probably from 15/17 were he was really at an apex but he has limits, Philly always had to fight for place. John Small is better quality defender and rounded player in my opinion. I'm keep saying it he was the first name on Jim Gavin's team sheet and Dessies to and pivotol to Dublin 5 in a row, his life on the edge is a smoke screen, top quality player.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3682 - 20/11/2020 21:05:06    2311842

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Replying To daytona11:  "Are you serious? LOL

we are fairly evenly matched teams over the last 10-15 years to be fair so it's not wonder the rivalry gets heated now and then.

Judging by the posts on here by quite a few of your fellow county men the game is as good as lost because it's in Croker.

A few of them have also gone quiet in recent days."
Meath and Kildare and evenly matched for a long time and in south Meath/ north Kildare the football rivalry is very strong. Point I was making was how Kildare supporters go over the top when we win/ lose games against them, when we win it is always doesn't matter since we are both Shi*e, when we lose it's there great and your Shi*e. When Meath win we tend to enjoy it and move on.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 774 - 20/11/2020 21:37:17    2311854

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Not me.
I'm getting more confidence as the game get closer.
I for one would be hugely disappointed if this game was not in Croke park. It's a Leinster final ffs. Only should ever be played in Croke park.
And what a better place to beat Dublin?? It's time to reclaim it for the royal. :).
I started of this thread with bring em on. I haven't lost one bit of faith.
Hon the royal."
It would be fairly unique had the final not being in Croker and this year would have been one time when capacity was not an issue.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 774 - 20/11/2020 21:44:33    2311856

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Really looking fwd to Meath v Dublin tomorrow.As a Limerickman hurling is my number 1 game.Having lived in Meath since the early 80s I witnessed and supported all those Meath/Dn clashes.There was nothing like them to rouse a crowd...even neutrals.
Back in 1974 I supported Dublin,they had only won a couple AIs the previous 30 years and a sizeable chunk of the country wanted Dublin to succeed,there was a fear that the gaa could die in our capital city.Those were the days when many of us "culchies" left our bedsits on most Sunday afternoons and headed for Croke Pk,you paid at the style on the way in and sat on a grassy hill 16.
Meath have fallen back too far over a number of years but still beat Dublin in 2010 with those 5 goals past Cluxton,what rejoicing in Meath….beating Dublin is the closest to winning an AI in Meath….its almost on a par but not quite.
I am impressed by those Meath young lads taking the field tomorrow,it will be an experience like no other for them.Dublin are a fantastic team,speed,skill,athleticism they have it all.
Leinster needs to be competitive again,would be a huge shock for Meath to win but here's hoping for at least a competitive performance.
I used to work with many Dubs supporters,some had kept the Evening Herald from 1974 at their desks up until I retired anyway.
The slagging used to be great craic....questioning why I could support the Meath "animals",my retort being I felt privileged to be allowed live in their county.
Hope its a great game tomorrow,has been hard to watch the one sided stuff in Leinster finals for too many years,am sure even the Dubs supporters have been disappointed with the fare on offer.
It would be some fillip for football in Leinster if Meath were to pull it off tomorrow.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 438 - 20/11/2020 21:44:44    2311857

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Replying To TheUsername:  "
Replying To Furlong1949:  "[quote=Kurt_Angle:  "You're a bit all over the shop with this post and putting words in the mouth of Dub fans that I don't think are reflective of current thinking (in my opinion anyway):

But they have lost great defenders like Sullivan McMahon Brennan O Carroll McCaffrey

- Philly, ROC and Cian O'Sullivan (Cillian O'S plays for Meath) are still on the Dublin panel. Philly played against Laois last weekend. Their best days may be behind them but they're not write offs yet
- Brennan had value - he was tough, hard to get the ball off, positionally astute and had good distribution but was, for a while, considered a bit of a liability, hadn't great pace and I've never heard him described a great defender
- Jack McCaffrey - I'll give you JMC, he was / is quality

But for me they are no Tommy Drum.or kieth Barr or Paul Curran, Gerry Hargan or Paddy Christie or Cilliam Sullivan or Phily McMahon

- Keith Barr was a good player but not the best defender ever. His cavalier role in 1992 went a long way towards costing Dublin the All-Ireland
- Paddy was quality but had too many injuries to be considered "great"
- TD, PC and GH are all highly considered by Dubs (that I've talked to)

Im sure the Dubs will say Small.Muchian and McDaid are great defenders.

I've yet to hear a single Dub say anything of the sort.
- Small is very consistent and very good at nullifying an opponent but had / has his disciplinary issues and wouldn't be considered the most dynamic
- McDaid has only really got a slot in the starting line up this year and he's 26/27
- I've a lot of time for Murchan but he hasn't 100% nailed down a spot in the Dublin team, which would be one of the criteria for greatness. He's only 24, to be fair

I know Muchiam great attacking wing back. But as defenders for Me Philiy McMahon woule be much better defender.

Philly is 6'0 and a powerhouse, Murchan is 5'7 and a speedster. You're comparing chalk and cheese. However, I'm struggling to think of anyone who's gotten the better of Murchan when he's played in the championship

Your overall argument appears to pick Dublin's (and others') best (or most high profile) defenders from a previous era and compare them with the perceived weaker links in the current defence. No team has 6 defenders who will go down as "greats" at any one time and you can't make a valid conclusion from comparing the strongest you cherry pick from various eras with some relative newcomers."
I said I could be clutching at straws. I expected your comments. The Dublin defence had an aura about it in 2015 2016 2017 great great defenders. Your marking Phily McMahon the guy is a household name. Certain defenders had an aura Mick Lyons Niall Callahane Ciaran McGeeney. John Small is a good quality defender. But he is not at the level of Tommy Drumm Paul Curran James Mccarthy. He might become that level. But he is not as legendary and have the aura as Philiy McMahon. If your 19 and you were marking Phily McMahon in 2016 that was scary. John Small might become as great as McMahon but he doesnt have the aura. As I said maybe I am clutching straws. We have to believe there is a chance. Its highly unlikely. I think rationally we dont win. But emotions and passions and the rivalry of old I have to believe we have a chance. If I was outside Meath I would say we dont have a chance. No one gave Cork but because of the rivalry Cork stuck in and won. I know we could lose by 15. If I take emotional out of it, it looks like 8 to 12 point win for Dublin. But its no crime to believe in your county. Surely we are allowed to shout support and believe. Whats the point in turning up. So I an looking for some cinks in this Dublin machine. Maybe I am clutching at straws. Maybe Dessie Farrell Dublin is weaker then Galvins Dublin. Or maybe Dessie Farrell is Bob Paisley and Jim Galvin was Bill Shankley. Meaning Farrell will be more sucessful.

Regards great defences I can think of many great great defence with 5 or 6 great defenders. Take kerry defence of 00s. Compare it to now. Not one current kerry defender wud get on the team. 3 footballer of the year. Moyihan T O Se M O Se. Three incredible defenders. Two O Ses are two of the greatest defenders ever. Moyihan is the greatest defender I ever saw. Paul McGrath of gaelic football. Tom Sullivan excellent defender. So was Mike Mccarthy and was so Aidan O Mahoney. Brillant defenders. Dublin team defence that won 5 in a row with one of the greatest defences ever. Quality defenders like Cooper Firzimons Mcarthy O Carroll McMahon. Meath defence of 87 88. 2 footballers of the year. Michael O Muirtigh said footballer of tge year Robbie O Malley was the best corner back he ever saw player. Martin O Connell another footballler of the year, was voted greatest left half back of all time, only modern player on team of millenium. Mick lyons was the greatest full back of 80s and one of the great full backs of all time and the most legendary full back time. Liam Harnan was toughest Meath defender but brillant hard as nails defender who was rarely passed or bettered. Terry Ferguson was quality all star defender one of the best corner backs of his generation. Kevin Foley was quality defender also tough as nail and thd hardest working defender ever to play for Meath. I have never seen a player win so much breaking ball. Underated quality defender. Meath defence of 80s was one of the all time great defences.

Kerry defence of 70s 80s John O keefe is one of the greatest full backs of all time. Paudi O Se is one greatest defenders of all time. Jimmy Deenihan one of the great corner backs of his generation. Tadgh kennelly was for me greatest kerry centre back of the last 50 years along with Moyihnan
Tom Spillane was underated but was a top class great defender. Sean Walsh was a brillant full back. And I never mentioned Ger Lynch Mick Spillane Tommy Doyle quality defenders.

Dublin team of 70s. Sean Doherty is the toughest and hardest full back of the last 50 years. A great full back. Kevin Moran if he stayed would have become the reatest centre back ever to play the game. Tommy Drum was the classiest best Dublin defender ever until James Mccarthy. Pat O Neill was tough as nails, brillant defender. Kelleher was tight tough brillant corner. Tyrone team of 00s. Late Cormac McAllen was becoming one of the greatest players ever to play for Tyrone. Was a great defender. Ryan McMenanin another great defender. One of the great corner backs of the last 30 years. Harte Gormley Jordan is one of the greatest half back lines of the last 30 years. Jordan was class, Gormley was underated one of best centre backs of last 20 years. And Harte also underated at his peak best attacking number 5 in the country. There also other other legendary defences Offaly team of the early 70s led by Paddy McCormack considered to be toughest hardest and best defence ever to come of leinster by many. Won 2 Sams and hammered kerry in an All Ireland final. Kerry defence of 50s led by greatest number 5 ever Sean Murphy also is considered one of the all time great defences. Only for Meath beating them in 54 they would have won 4 in a row. They won Sam in 1952 1953 1955. Cavan team of 40s 50s had one great all time defences with great like Smyth, O Reilly and greatest Ulster defender ever possibly John Joe Reilly.

Dublin 2010s ( 1 footballer of the year)
James Mccarthy Cillian Sullivan Rory O Carroll Phily mcMahon Ger Brennan Jack Mccaffrey Johnny Cooper
Tyrone 00s
Cormac McAllen Ryan McNemin Philip Jordan Conor Gormley Davy Harte
Kerry 00s ( 3 footballers of the year Moynihan T O Se M O Se)
Seamus Moyihan Tomas O Se Marc O Se Tom Sullivan Mike Mccarthy Aiden O Mahoney
Meath 80s ( 2 Footballers of the year O Malley O Connell)
Mick lyons Martin O Connell Robbie O Malley Liam Harnan Terry Ferguson
Kerrys late 70s early 80s ( 1 Footballer of the year O Keefe)
John O Keefe Paudi O Se Tadgh Kennelly Jimmy Deenihan Tom Spillane Sean Walsh Ger Power ( Power was a wing back for while)
Dublin late 70s early 80s ( 1 Footballer of the year Drum)
Tommy Drum Sean Doherty Kevin Moran Pat O Neill Gerry Hargan Robbie kelleher

Just regards Keith Barr. Barr was a brillant defender. Yes in 92 the half back line attacked to much. But Barr was class. Tough skilful brillant defender. That half back line Curran Barr Heery is one the great half back lines of the last 30 year. Curran along with Drumm and Mcarthy are Dublins greatest ever defenders. Paul Curran was a class act of a defender he could do anything. And Eamon Heery very underated. Tough as nails. But brillant defender. Top class. I dont care anyone says Curran Barr and Heery would walk on to current Dublin team. That Dublin defence was brillant. Hargan only for Mick lyons would have best best full back in Ireland. And Mick kennedy to this day is the goughest corner back I ever saw. But also brillant natural defender. Its my just opinion. Im sure others have different opinions. Thats my last message for a while. Im sure many will be happy with that."
I love Philly, he's a cult figure, hard as nails and made the best out of his talent, had a couple of years probably from 15/17 were he was really at an apex but he has limits, Philly always had to fight for place. John Small is better quality defender and rounded player in my opinion. I'm keep saying it he was the first name on Jim Gavin's team sheet and Dessies to and pivotol to Dublin 5 in a row, his life on the edge is a smoke screen, top quality player."]On Mall i think he is a fine player but a bit of a liability. Vaughan in Mayo is blamed for Mayo losing all ireland v Dubs a few years ago. The irony is if he did nt react Mayo had a near certain point and prob would ve won game and then Small would ve been the villain. On Philly. He was a top corner back for a few years but think he has faded and can't see him starting against the likes of Donegal if they bt Cavan. Even in club level recently Philly has been very average. Mick Fitz for me is so underrated. Mr dependable.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 687 - 20/11/2020 21:56:46    2311860

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "
Replying To TheUsername:  "[quote=bdbuddah:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=Crinigan:  "[quote=Dubsfan28:  ""Well they've the run of Croke by all accounts"

Did your mates 2nd cousin, who drank with a chap, who is a steward in Croker tell you that? ;)"
No but two coaches on opposition teams (Nally and Poacher) mentioned it in mainstream media as well as a former Wexford coach and at least one Westmeath player on Twitter in the last year.

Everyone also saw it with their own eyes last weekend when Dublin used Croke Park pitch as their personal training pitch after the match was over , which to be fair, it is at this stage. That doesn't make it right though."
I think its only fair its our home ground after all.

I wouldn't begrudge Meath doing similar in Navan."]People can play it down all they like but but even without supporters playing at home is still a huge advantage. Same routines before all games, less travel to the ground, used to the dimensions of the pitch, free takers familiar with surroundings etc.
This year, in the year of Covid and no capacity issues this game (& Dublin Laois game also) should have been played in a neutral venue."]Yep absolutely no beef there, id be on board with Dublin playing outside Croke Park more frequently, id go further, home away in Leinster, quarterfinal, semi finals, finals outside Croke Park id be a big fan of that.

But if people are saying one of Dublins home grounds is Croke Park and lets be honest it is, then i dont see the point of people getting their knickers in a twist about warm downs etc, i think its simple either accept its Dublin home ground and all that goes with that and have a crib, or it isnt and you are playing at neutral venue.

Doesnt make a material difference either way, it will still be in Dublin and there will always be a big blue wall on the Hill."]Well said Username. If Dublin want to warm down what's the problem. As for stewards not allowing other teams warm down I would guess that might be after the opening game and they trying to get pitch ready for next game. Dubs play in 2nd game so no prob after game. The losing team in 2nd game might not be bothered as they out of Regardless again it is not the Dublin teams fault Of course they will have a few perks here and there but don't we all at home. On the Dubs panel themselves though they are very grounded. I remember Éamonn Fitzmaurice said a few years ago after a drawn league game in Tralee v Dublin that was feisty Cluxton knocked on Kerry dressing room looking for a brush to clean up their own dressing room. Fitzmaurice told Cluxton that we have someone to do that but Cluxton said no that he l do it. It was their mess so they ll clean in up themselves. Now that's class.!"]I had heard that storey beforE Mick but had totally forgotten it fair play, I think success and long lasting success is often marked by belief, confidence, respect, hard work but humility.

The one experience i think sums up Stephen, is the final of 2011. He'd gone almost a decade trying to get over the line to win an All Ireland, kicked the winning point in the last minute Vs Kerry, to win Dublins first All Ireland in 16 years and what does he do, heads straight down the tunnel because he promised the kids he teaches's if he won he would bring Sam in the next day, that was his motivation and so he did. No where to be seen at the presentation or celebrations and had to be coaxed out of the dressing I think by Barry Cahill at the time. A brief glimpse into the man himself, his psychology and motivation, but also his humility.

I think this will be his last year, he will want to go out with minimum fuss, so an empty stadium without the fanfare will suit him down to the ground.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3682 - 20/11/2020 22:12:52    2311871

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@Mick, I get the disciplinary thing, but to be honest he's as safe as houses, it's an open joke amongst Dubs that he will get a yellow for not much, it happens every game, far more ill disciplined players then Small in my opinion. He lives on the edge certainly, but if your going to war you want to look to your left and see Johnny Small there. I think he has this unfair hard reputation, kind of like Barr, Small is also a very good defender, sometimes I don't know how he gets his hand in on things and as player he is an underrated quality one, watch him he's very understated and very consistent, he's clever to, he knows how to be the extra man, great balance between attack and defence and transitition.

Philly has always been boom or bust for me, I've seen him do the sublime and simply awful. I love him though.People tend to judge him on the years 13-17 maybe, but to be honest he's been knocking around with Dublin on and off since 2008. He was doing well to make the squad up to 13 and did well to nail a position from probably the next free seasons, fair play he fought his way into it and appexed for me from 16/17. He's a great servant and made the best out of his talent, I think he always had a gaffe in him and poor decision and he was a physical defender, with great will to get forward but limited naturally in the art of defending technically. He's the lad you put on a big man so not to be physically imposed or if you needed someone to battle. He got himself in peak condition in 15, 16, 17 and that memorable match up with Gooch and big physical battles with Mayo. His role now is to come on a match a big man, like when he came on and went on Walsh last year and he might come in if we play Donegal to stand on Murphy. Philly owes Dublin nothing, will always be a cult figure and a warrior, but I'm surprised so many rate him as an All time great defender. As a technician, he was no Cian O Sullivan. Which proves my point really on Small, Small replaced and became Cians successor and no one batted an eye lid, very
underrated.

Either way, I'm absolutely convinced you can have, Brogans Connollys, Murphy, Gooches , Clifgords etc but you don't win All Ireland's with players like Philly or Small.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3682 - 20/11/2020 22:36:09    2311880

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My tips for provincial winners.
Dublin
Donegal
Cork.
Would be great to see Cavan,Meath or Tipperary win, but they may have to wait.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 118 - 20/11/2020 22:39:21    2311881

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John Small tends to be undisciplined in pressure games. Good bet to get a black/red card tomorrow. Phill has been a good defender but likely to play a small part for Dublin now.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 242 - 20/11/2020 22:48:08    2311885

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Replying To TheUsername:  "
Replying To CiarraiMick:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=bdbuddah:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=Crinigan:  "[quote=Dubsfan28:  ""Well they've the run of Croke by all accounts"

Did your mates 2nd cousin, who drank with a chap, who is a steward in Croker tell you that? ;)"
No but two coaches on opposition teams (Nally and Poacher) mentioned it in mainstream media as well as a former Wexford coach and at least one Westmeath player on Twitter in the last year.

Everyone also saw it with their own eyes last weekend when Dublin used Croke Park pitch as their personal training pitch after the match was over , which to be fair, it is at this stage. That doesn't make it right though."
I think its only fair its our home ground after all.

I wouldn't begrudge Meath doing similar in Navan."]People can play it down all they like but but even without supporters playing at home is still a huge advantage. Same routines before all games, less travel to the ground, used to the dimensions of the pitch, free takers familiar with surroundings etc.
This year, in the year of Covid and no capacity issues this game (& Dublin Laois game also) should have been played in a neutral venue."]Yep absolutely no beef there, id be on board with Dublin playing outside Croke Park more frequently, id go further, home away in Leinster, quarterfinal, semi finals, finals outside Croke Park id be a big fan of that.

But if people are saying one of Dublins home grounds is Croke Park and lets be honest it is, then i dont see the point of people getting their knickers in a twist about warm downs etc, i think its simple either accept its Dublin home ground and all that goes with that and have a crib, or it isnt and you are playing at neutral venue.

Doesnt make a material difference either way, it will still be in Dublin and there will always be a big blue wall on the Hill."]Well said Username. If Dublin want to warm down what's the problem. As for stewards not allowing other teams warm down I would guess that might be after the opening game and they trying to get pitch ready for next game. Dubs play in 2nd game so no prob after game. The losing team in 2nd game might not be bothered as they out of Regardless again it is not the Dublin teams fault Of course they will have a few perks here and there but don't we all at home. On the Dubs panel themselves though they are very grounded. I remember Éamonn Fitzmaurice said a few years ago after a drawn league game in Tralee v Dublin that was feisty Cluxton knocked on Kerry dressing room looking for a brush to clean up their own dressing room. Fitzmaurice told Cluxton that we have someone to do that but Cluxton said no that he l do it. It was their mess so they ll clean in up themselves. Now that's class.!"]I had heard that storey beforE Mick but had totally forgotten it fair play, I think success and long lasting success is often marked by belief, confidence, respect, hard work but humility.

The one experience i think sums up Stephen, is the final of 2011. He'd gone almost a decade trying to get over the line to win an All Ireland, kicked the winning point in the last minute Vs Kerry, to win Dublins first All Ireland in 16 years and what does he do, heads straight down the tunnel because he promised the kids he teaches's if he won he would bring Sam in the next day, that was his motivation and so he did. No where to be seen at the presentation or celebrations and had to be coaxed out of the dressing I think by Barry Cahill at the time. A brief glimpse into the man himself, his psychology and motivation, but also his humility.

I think this will be his last year, he will want to go out with minimum fuss, so an empty stadium without the fanfare will suit him down to the ground."]Yes I would imagine that's the way he would like to go alright. One of a kind.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 687 - 20/11/2020 23:17:04    2311893

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Best wishes to Andy Brian Donal and all the team and back room staff for today. We can do this.
Hon the royal

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17038 - 21/11/2020 09:00:54    2311923

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "
Replying To TheUsername:  "[quote=CiarraiMick:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=bdbuddah:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=Crinigan:  "[quote=Dubsfan28:  ""Well they've the run of Croke by all accounts"

Did your mates 2nd cousin, who drank with a chap, who is a steward in Croker tell you that? ;)"
No but two coaches on opposition teams (Nally and Poacher) mentioned it in mainstream media as well as a former Wexford coach and at least one Westmeath player on Twitter in the last year.

Everyone also saw it with their own eyes last weekend when Dublin used Croke Park pitch as their personal training pitch after the match was over , which to be fair, it is at this stage. That doesn't make it right though."
I think its only fair its our home ground after all.

I wouldn't begrudge Meath doing similar in Navan."]People can play it down all they like but but even without supporters playing at home is still a huge advantage. Same routines before all games, less travel to the ground, used to the dimensions of the pitch, free takers familiar with surroundings etc.
This year, in the year of Covid and no capacity issues this game (& Dublin Laois game also) should have been played in a neutral venue."]Yep absolutely no beef there, id be on board with Dublin playing outside Croke Park more frequently, id go further, home away in Leinster, quarterfinal, semi finals, finals outside Croke Park id be a big fan of that.

But if people are saying one of Dublins home grounds is Croke Park and lets be honest it is, then i dont see the point of people getting their knickers in a twist about warm downs etc, i think its simple either accept its Dublin home ground and all that goes with that and have a crib, or it isnt and you are playing at neutral venue.

Doesnt make a material difference either way, it will still be in Dublin and there will always be a big blue wall on the Hill."]Well said Username. If Dublin want to warm down what's the problem. As for stewards not allowing other teams warm down I would guess that might be after the opening game and they trying to get pitch ready for next game. Dubs play in 2nd game so no prob after game. The losing team in 2nd game might not be bothered as they out of Regardless again it is not the Dublin teams fault Of course they will have a few perks here and there but don't we all at home. On the Dubs panel themselves though they are very grounded. I remember Éamonn Fitzmaurice said a few years ago after a drawn league game in Tralee v Dublin that was feisty Cluxton knocked on Kerry dressing room looking for a brush to clean up their own dressing room. Fitzmaurice told Cluxton that we have someone to do that but Cluxton said no that he l do it. It was their mess so they ll clean in up themselves. Now that's class.!"]I had heard that storey beforE Mick but had totally forgotten it fair play, I think success and long lasting success is often marked by belief, confidence, respect, hard work but humility.

The one experience i think sums up Stephen, is the final of 2011. He'd gone almost a decade trying to get over the line to win an All Ireland, kicked the winning point in the last minute Vs Kerry, to win Dublins first All Ireland in 16 years and what does he do, heads straight down the tunnel because he promised the kids he teaches's if he won he would bring Sam in the next day, that was his motivation and so he did. No where to be seen at the presentation or celebrations and had to be coaxed out of the dressing I think by Barry Cahill at the time. A brief glimpse into the man himself, his psychology and motivation, but also his humility.

I think this will be his last year, he will want to go out with minimum fuss, so an empty stadium without the fanfare will suit him down to the ground."]Yes I would imagine that's the way he would like to go alright. One of a kind."]What time is it. ?? It's five past cluxton.
Hon the royal

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17038 - 21/11/2020 09:18:44    2311929

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "
Replying To TheUsername:  "[quote=CiarraiMick:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=bdbuddah:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=Crinigan:  "[quote=Dubsfan28:  ""Well they've the run of Croke by all accounts"

Did your mates 2nd cousin, who drank with a chap, who is a steward in Croker tell you that? ;)"
No but two coaches on opposition teams (Nally and Poacher) mentioned it in mainstream media as well as a former Wexford coach and at least one Westmeath player on Twitter in the last year.

Everyone also saw it with their own eyes last weekend when Dublin used Croke Park pitch as their personal training pitch after the match was over , which to be fair, it is at this stage. That doesn't make it right though."
I think its only fair its our home ground after all.

I wouldn't begrudge Meath doing similar in Navan."]People can play it down all they like but but even without supporters playing at home is still a huge advantage. Same routines before all games, less travel to the ground, used to the dimensions of the pitch, free takers familiar with surroundings etc.
This year, in the year of Covid and no capacity issues this game (& Dublin Laois game also) should have been played in a neutral venue."]Yep absolutely no beef there, id be on board with Dublin playing outside Croke Park more frequently, id go further, home away in Leinster, quarterfinal, semi finals, finals outside Croke Park id be a big fan of that.

But if people are saying one of Dublins home grounds is Croke Park and lets be honest it is, then i dont see the point of people getting their knickers in a twist about warm downs etc, i think its simple either accept its Dublin home ground and all that goes with that and have a crib, or it isnt and you are playing at neutral venue.

Doesnt make a material difference either way, it will still be in Dublin and there will always be a big blue wall on the Hill."]Well said Username. If Dublin want to warm down what's the problem. As for stewards not allowing other teams warm down I would guess that might be after the opening game and they trying to get pitch ready for next game. Dubs play in 2nd game so no prob after game. The losing team in 2nd game might not be bothered as they out of Regardless again it is not the Dublin teams fault Of course they will have a few perks here and there but don't we all at home. On the Dubs panel themselves though they are very grounded. I remember Éamonn Fitzmaurice said a few years ago after a drawn league game in Tralee v Dublin that was feisty Cluxton knocked on Kerry dressing room looking for a brush to clean up their own dressing room. Fitzmaurice told Cluxton that we have someone to do that but Cluxton said no that he l do it. It was their mess so they ll clean in up themselves. Now that's class.!"]I had heard that storey beforE Mick but had totally forgotten it fair play, I think success and long lasting success is often marked by belief, confidence, respect, hard work but humility.

The one experience i think sums up Stephen, is the final of 2011. He'd gone almost a decade trying to get over the line to win an All Ireland, kicked the winning point in the last minute Vs Kerry, to win Dublins first All Ireland in 16 years and what does he do, heads straight down the tunnel because he promised the kids he teaches's if he won he would bring Sam in the next day, that was his motivation and so he did. No where to be seen at the presentation or celebrations and had to be coaxed out of the dressing I think by Barry Cahill at the time. A brief glimpse into the man himself, his psychology and motivation, but also his humility.

I think this will be his last year, he will want to go out with minimum fuss, so an empty stadium without the fanfare will suit him down to the ground."]Yes I would imagine that's the way he would like to go alright. One of a kind."]No problem with Dublin playing their games in Croke Park; it's the main venue in Leinster and in normal championship summers generates huge income for the Leinster council.

There is no reason the other provinces can't talk to central council and book Croke Park for their own provincial finals - Ulster have done it previously but obviously it causes logisitcal problems. Croke Park is in Dublin; that can't be helped but at the same time it can't be left empty because others in the country are shouting unfairness. Yes having two super 8 games there were unfair as was insisting on round 1 Leinster games; both have been resolved.

The Dublin county board rent Croke Park for the spring series; if other counties wanted to do the same then I'm sure something could be worked out.

What I would say though to be fair is the GAA/stadium management have to be sensitive. No team is ever allowed to warm down on the Croke Park pitch; there is extensive warm up/down areas attached to changing rooms so it doesn't look good; that Dublin are allowed to use the pitch for this purpose when others aren't. The result doesn't matter; every team practices good sports science and a warm down is an important aspect of this if you've another game to play this season or not.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 713 - 21/11/2020 09:57:30    2311934

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A mucky old day in the home of the five of the row, all set up for the ambush.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3682 - 21/11/2020 10:17:13    2311936

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Best wishes to Andy Brian Donal and all the team and back room staff for today. We can do this.
Hon the royal"
Fairplay royaldunne, all the best to our lads today, big task ahead but sure that's what sport is all about, we may as well savour it.

Pity we can't be as bould as 2014 though ;-)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/sport/pic-weve-found-the-most-excited-meath-gaa-fans-around-ahead-of-the-leinster-final-this-weekend-448120

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8586 - 21/11/2020 10:32:10    2311938

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "My tips for provincial winners.
Dublin
Donegal
Cork.
Would be great to see Cavan,Meath or Tipperary win, but they may have to wait."
Good job you're here Mick or we might lose our shorts.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1668 - 21/11/2020 10:43:42    2311940

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Replying To Htaem:  "Fairplay royaldunne, all the best to our lads today, big task ahead but sure that's what sport is all about, we may as well savour it.

Pity we can't be as bould as 2014 though ;-)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/sport/pic-weve-found-the-most-excited-meath-gaa-fans-around-ahead-of-the-leinster-final-this-weekend-448120"
Ahh let me tell you if we win today I'm streaking:) so if you hear of a man arrested in Westmeath for nudity tomorrow, you'll know who it is Lol

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17038 - 21/11/2020 11:03:26    2311948

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Really looking forward to the match tonight. I genuinely hope Meath give us a good game. I really miss the Dub/Meath games of the past. The games where you genuinely hadn't a clue who would come out on top. You'd wake up with a knot in your stomach with the nerves. And you absolutely hated Meath. No two ways about it, I despised Meath. But by god did I respect them.

Unfortunately i haven't hated Meath for a long long time now. I actually kinda like to see them do well. And that for me says it all about what was once THE GREAT rivalry in the GAA. Its DEAD!!

They're definitely going in the right direction mind you, and regardless of what people would have you think, Dublin are not as strong as previous years.

So maybe the great rivalry might make a revival!!!! But not this year!!! Comfortable win for the Dubs!

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1922 - 21/11/2020 11:17:32    2311954

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Replying To sam1884:  "
Replying To CiarraiMick:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=CiarraiMick:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=bdbuddah:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=Crinigan:  "[quote=Dubsfan28:  ""Well they've the run of Croke by all accounts"

Did your mates 2nd cousin, who drank with a chap, who is a steward in Croker tell you that? ;)"
No but two coaches on opposition teams (Nally and Poacher) mentioned it in mainstream media as well as a former Wexford coach and at least one Westmeath player on Twitter in the last year.

Everyone also saw it with their own eyes last weekend when Dublin used Croke Park pitch as their personal training pitch after the match was over , which to be fair, it is at this stage. That doesn't make it right though."
I think its only fair its our home ground after all.

I wouldn't begrudge Meath doing similar in Navan."]People can play it down all they like but but even without supporters playing at home is still a huge advantage. Same routines before all games, less travel to the ground, used to the dimensions of the pitch, free takers familiar with surroundings etc.
This year, in the year of Covid and no capacity issues this game (& Dublin Laois game also) should have been played in a neutral venue."]Yep absolutely no beef there, id be on board with Dublin playing outside Croke Park more frequently, id go further, home away in Leinster, quarterfinal, semi finals, finals outside Croke Park id be a big fan of that.

But if people are saying one of Dublins home grounds is Croke Park and lets be honest it is, then i dont see the point of people getting their knickers in a twist about warm downs etc, i think its simple either accept its Dublin home ground and all that goes with that and have a crib, or it isnt and you are playing at neutral venue.

Doesnt make a material difference either way, it will still be in Dublin and there will always be a big blue wall on the Hill."]Well said Username. If Dublin want to warm down what's the problem. As for stewards not allowing other teams warm down I would guess that might be after the opening game and they trying to get pitch ready for next game. Dubs play in 2nd game so no prob after game. The losing team in 2nd game might not be bothered as they out of Regardless again it is not the Dublin teams fault Of course they will have a few perks here and there but don't we all at home. On the Dubs panel themselves though they are very grounded. I remember Éamonn Fitzmaurice said a few years ago after a drawn league game in Tralee v Dublin that was feisty Cluxton knocked on Kerry dressing room looking for a brush to clean up their own dressing room. Fitzmaurice told Cluxton that we have someone to do that but Cluxton said no that he l do it. It was their mess so they ll clean in up themselves. Now that's class.!"]I had heard that storey beforE Mick but had totally forgotten it fair play, I think success and long lasting success is often marked by belief, confidence, respect, hard work but humility.

The one experience i think sums up Stephen, is the final of 2011. He'd gone almost a decade trying to get over the line to win an All Ireland, kicked the winning point in the last minute Vs Kerry, to win Dublins first All Ireland in 16 years and what does he do, heads straight down the tunnel because he promised the kids he teaches's if he won he would bring Sam in the next day, that was his motivation and so he did. No where to be seen at the presentation or celebrations and had to be coaxed out of the dressing I think by Barry Cahill at the time. A brief glimpse into the man himself, his psychology and motivation, but also his humility.

I think this will be his last year, he will want to go out with minimum fuss, so an empty stadium without the fanfare will suit him down to the ground."]Yes I would imagine that's the way he would like to go alright. One of a kind."]No problem with Dublin playing their games in Croke Park; it's the main venue in Leinster and in normal championship summers generates huge income for the Leinster council.

There is no reason the other provinces can't talk to central council and book Croke Park for their own provincial finals - Ulster have done it previously but obviously it causes logisitcal problems. Croke Park is in Dublin; that can't be helped but at the same time it can't be left empty because others in the country are shouting unfairness. Yes having two super 8 games there were unfair as was insisting on round 1 Leinster games; both have been resolved.

The Dublin county board rent Croke Park for the spring series; if other counties wanted to do the same then I'm sure something could be worked out.

What I would say though to be fair is the GAA/stadium management have to be sensitive. No team is ever allowed to warm down on the Croke Park pitch; there is extensive warm up/down areas attached to changing rooms so it doesn't look good; that Dublin are allowed to use the pitch for this purpose when others aren't. The result doesn't matter; every team practices good sports science and a warm down is an important aspect of this if you've another game to play this season or not."]Im not sure teams would want to rent Croke Park. The reason dubs do it is to accommodate more fans and it makes financial sense. Maybe counties close by but would nt be much use to Donegal Mayo Kerry or Cork supporters having to travel such long distances. Tyrone a d Armagh played ulster finals there in the 00 s when both teams were superpowers and drew massive crowds.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 687 - 21/11/2020 12:05:04    2311967

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