National Forum

RTE Football Team/Player Of The Year

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Replying To Joxer:  "Is that you Sparky/Up4it? LOL. Worst WUM ever. Bring back TheMaster. At least he knew something about the sport."
TheMaster knew something about a sport. That's some statement!

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7765 - 11/08/2023 12:52:30    2500060

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "TheMaster knew something about a sport. That's some statement!"
Debatable I know. A quality WUM though.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4696 - 11/08/2023 13:45:44    2500066

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Replying To Fionn:  "Spot on.
Stevo with 100% kick out success rate and 2pts scored in the biggest day of the year.
Enough said imo.

We wont even go into the self-preservation/assault by the other fella v Derry - if it was a rugby game it was, a red card all day long...
Knew exactly what he was doing.
Could have a target on his head for next season v Derry ;o) Joking of course.

Cherry picking aspects or stats of a losing final and re-watching it over and over again - wouldnt be my way of dealing with that defeat tbh.

We can all start going through the good aspects of certain of our players in the final, but from a losers pov, does it actually make the loss feel any easier.?

I am not sure Stevo's performance in the final and the lack of goals conceded by him before the final, will be enough to get him the All Star. I actually think an outfield Dublin player might get one instead of him. Similarly the POTY award going to Jamesie - not so sure he will actually get it.
But really, does it matter - who have the All Ireland medals this year - that is the main thing.

Many players has received All Stars when other were perhaps more deserving of them.
Very rarely everyone will agree on them. Similarly for the team of the year and even POTY.

It can be good for debate etc but I wouldnt be losing sleep over it and continually trying to prove a point - be it positive or negative, depending on your team of preference.

What will be, will be.... ;o)"
Cluxton will be there or thereabouts for an All Star and deservedly so. I don't think James McCarthy did enough to win POTY. There are others who in my opinion are well ahead of him. David Clifford is one. Brendan Rogers and Conor McCluskey would be two more.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6025 - 11/08/2023 13:51:57    2500068

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Replying To BlastCalyle:  "https://twitter.com/PwCIreland/status/1689592431875153920?s=20

Brendan Rogers gets player of the month for July, which contained the quarter finals, semi's and the final.
Surely has to be on the short list for POTY so?"
He'd be my pick I think.

He won't get it though.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13683 - 11/08/2023 14:07:19    2500072

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Replying To MesAmis:  "He'd be my pick I think.

He won't get it though."
Brendan Rogers had a great season MesAmis. I don't think there'd be too many complaints if he got it. I know Conor McCluskey wouldn't be the choice of many but I think he was outstanding all year.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6025 - 11/08/2023 14:15:41    2500076

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Replying To Joxer:  "Debatable I know. A quality WUM though."
Haha yes but half the time he wasn't being a WUM he was just ill informed .

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7765 - 11/08/2023 14:27:19    2500081

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Cluxton will be there or thereabouts for an All Star and deservedly so. I don't think James McCarthy did enough to win POTY. There are others who in my opinion are well ahead of him. David Clifford is one. Brendan Rogers and Conor McCluskey would be two more."
I think we can add Fenton to the list of candidates for POTY also tbh.

Personally think it will be between Fenton McCarthy and Clifford.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3678 - 11/08/2023 14:30:04    2500083

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Replying To Joxer:  "Is that you Sparky/Up4it? LOL. Worst WUM ever. Bring back TheMaster. At least he knew something about the sport."
Why won't you answer the question?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 11/08/2023 15:14:00    2500093

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Replying To Fionn:  "Spot on.
Stevo with 100% kick out success rate and 2pts scored in the biggest day of the year.
Enough said imo.

We wont even go into the self-preservation/assault by the other fella v Derry - if it was a rugby game it was, a red card all day long...
Knew exactly what he was doing.
Could have a target on his head for next season v Derry ;o) Joking of course.

Cherry picking aspects or stats of a losing final and re-watching it over and over again - wouldnt be my way of dealing with that defeat tbh.

We can all start going through the good aspects of certain of our players in the final, but from a losers pov, does it actually make the loss feel any easier.?

I am not sure Stevo's performance in the final and the lack of goals conceded by him before the final, will be enough to get him the All Star. I actually think an outfield Dublin player might get one instead of him. Similarly the POTY award going to Jamesie - not so sure he will actually get it.
But really, does it matter - who have the All Ireland medals this year - that is the main thing.

Many players has received All Stars when other were perhaps more deserving of them.
Very rarely everyone will agree on them. Similarly for the team of the year and even POTY.

It can be good for debate etc but I wouldnt be losing sleep over it and continually trying to prove a point - be it positive or negative, depending on your team of preference.

What will be, will be.... ;o)"
I was very interested in how you finished this post Fionn:

"But i wouldnt be losing sleep over it and continually trying to prove a point - be it positive or negative, depending on your team preference. What will be, will be"

You do realise that you must have posted about 30 - 40 times on the team/player, 2023 Dublin v Kerry and the Dublin Gaa threads since the All Ireland Final, primarily repeating the same things over and over again. Maybe it might be a good idea to implement your own suggestion an odd time.

letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 438 - 11/08/2023 15:54:41    2500096

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Replying To Fionn:  "I think we can add Fenton to the list of candidates for POTY also tbh.

Personally think it will be between Fenton McCarthy and Clifford."
You're probably right Fionn but in my opinion McCarthy didn't do enough to be there. Others did more.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6025 - 11/08/2023 16:52:40    2500108

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Brendan Rogers had a great season MesAmis. I don't think there'd be too many complaints if he got it. I know Conor McCluskey wouldn't be the choice of many but I think he was outstanding all year."
Not a bad shout at all Greengrass.

The whole POTY debate is very strange.

From a Dublin POV I think various players played well in various games but I don't think anyone was necessarily at POTY standard over a sustained run of games.

As for Clifford, poor in the quarter final and poor again in the final. That's poor in 2 of the 3 biggest games of the year. I can't think of any other FOTY or HOTY getting the award despite playing badly in 2/3rds of the biggest games. Genuinely finding the narrative from a lot of pundits that it's a 'no-brainer' very confusing.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13683 - 11/08/2023 22:46:39    2500129

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Not a bad shout at all Greengrass.

The whole POTY debate is very strange.

From a Dublin POV I think various players played well in various games but I don't think anyone was necessarily at POTY standard over a sustained run of games.

As for Clifford, poor in the quarter final and poor again in the final. That's poor in 2 of the 3 biggest games of the year. I can't think of any other FOTY or HOTY getting the award despite playing badly in 2/3rds of the biggest games. Genuinely finding the narrative from a lot of pundits that it's a 'no-brainer' very confusing."
How was he poor in these games? Scored 3 points in the final and was involved with another 1-03 .

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 12/08/2023 09:33:25    2500148

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Replying To oneoff:  "How was he poor in these games? Scored 3 points in the final and was involved with another 1-03 ."
Yeah he had a poor final. It really shouldn't be that controversial a point. It doesn't make him a bad player.

A lot of people were involved in that 1-3 you've cited so I think that's being generous in the extreme. James McCarthy had a poor final I think you'd agree, was 'involved' in plenty of Dublin scores though.

Clifford gave Dublin the ball back a lot, through his very poor shooting and a turnover. 2 of his wides/misses were extremely poor under no pressure, and the others were extremely poor shot selection. He's a great player undoubtedly but had a negative impact on Kerry in the final overall even by the most generous of takes. If Clifford hadn't have been as poor then Kerry would be champions now if we're being honest.

It's a strange year for FOTY, with neither of the finalists having a stand out candidate unlike last year where you had Clifford and Walsh as standouts. Weirdly the narrative is that it's either Clifford or McCarthy, neither deserving and more deserving players who were knocked out earlier will be ignored.

Again he's a great player but had a poor quarter final and poor final by anyone's standards. I can't remember anyone getting FOTY or HOTY having performed poorly in 2 out of his 3 biggest games of the year.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13683 - 12/08/2023 10:28:23    2500159

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Yeah he had a poor final. It really shouldn't be that controversial a point. It doesn't make him a bad player.

A lot of people were involved in that 1-3 you've cited so I think that's being generous in the extreme. James McCarthy had a poor final I think you'd agree, was 'involved' in plenty of Dublin scores though.

Clifford gave Dublin the ball back a lot, through his very poor shooting and a turnover. 2 of his wides/misses were extremely poor under no pressure, and the others were extremely poor shot selection. He's a great player undoubtedly but had a negative impact on Kerry in the final overall even by the most generous of takes. If Clifford hadn't have been as poor then Kerry would be champions now if we're being honest.

It's a strange year for FOTY, with neither of the finalists having a stand out candidate unlike last year where you had Clifford and Walsh as standouts. Weirdly the narrative is that it's either Clifford or McCarthy, neither deserving and more deserving players who were knocked out earlier will be ignored.

Again he's a great player but had a poor quarter final and poor final by anyone's standards. I can't remember anyone getting FOTY or HOTY having performed poorly in 2 out of his 3 biggest games of the year."
By your logic Claxtons points had bearing on his display because as you have said ". A lot of people were involved" Same with his kickouts, the thing Dubs have been raving about for years, as he's only playing a part in it. Or is it different when it's him?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 13/08/2023 15:35:21    2500302

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Réad an interesting Article today by Cahir Ó Kane on the debate between Shane Ryan and Stephen Cluxton over the 2023 championship. Kane writes that statistics show Shane Ryan had a better championship than Cluxton. Now I have no problem if Cluxton gets an all star but some posters posted before they did nt see alot of Ryan. Here are the stats. CLUXTON
Kickouts taken 142
Contested=70
Uncontested=72
Contested Kickouts won = 47 (67%)
Contested Kickouts lost = 23 (33%)
Uncontested kickouts won =72 (100%)
Goals conceded =1
Saves.= 5
Goal saving interceptions = 0
High balls won =5/7
Errors = 1
Scores = 0-2 (1 free. 1 45)

RYAN
Kickouts taken =159
Contested kickouts =81
Uncontested kickouts = 78
Contested kickouts won =67 (83%)
Contested kickouts lost = 14 (17%)
Uncontested kickouts won = 78 (100%)
Goals conceded =3
Saves = 9
Goal saving interceptions = 1
High balls won = 7/8
Errors = 0
Scores = 0-1 (play)
Saves = 9
So the statistics show while Cluxton conceded 2 goals less than Ryan and scored 1 point more. Ryan was better under high ball and made more saves plus goal saving interception. Also Ryan's kickouts had a better percentage. Food for thought. Maybe now some posters will give Shane Ryan some credit too. No surprise both keepers had 100%for uncontested kickouts.If Cluxton gets all star fair play but if Ryan gets it now you know why!

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3605 - 15/08/2023 21:58:15    2500695

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Réad an interesting Article today by Cahir Ó Kane on the debate between Shane Ryan and Stephen Cluxton over the 2023 championship. Kane writes that statistics show Shane Ryan had a better championship than Cluxton. Now I have no problem if Cluxton gets an all star but some posters posted before they did nt see alot of Ryan. Here are the stats. CLUXTON
Kickouts taken 142
Contested=70
Uncontested=72
Contested Kickouts won = 47 (67%)
Contested Kickouts lost = 23 (33%)
Uncontested kickouts won =72 (100%)
Goals conceded =1
Saves.= 5
Goal saving interceptions = 0
High balls won =5/7
Errors = 1
Scores = 0-2 (1 free. 1 45)

RYAN
Kickouts taken =159
Contested kickouts =81
Uncontested kickouts = 78
Contested kickouts won =67 (83%)
Contested kickouts lost = 14 (17%)
Uncontested kickouts won = 78 (100%)
Goals conceded =3
Saves = 9
Goal saving interceptions = 1
High balls won = 7/8
Errors = 0
Scores = 0-1 (play)
Saves = 9
So the statistics show while Cluxton conceded 2 goals less than Ryan and scored 1 point more. Ryan was better under high ball and made more saves plus goal saving interception. Also Ryan's kickouts had a better percentage. Food for thought. Maybe now some posters will give Shane Ryan some credit too. No surprise both keepers had 100%for uncontested kickouts.If Cluxton gets all star fair play but if Ryan gets it now you know why!"
Was the quality of opposition taken into account Mick? Kerry put cricket scores up against two hurling counties to win Munster and without any disrespect to those counties, my granny would be winning kick-outs against them. Beating Tipp by 20 points in a Munster football final, keeping a clean sheet and hitting 100% of your kick-outs is not something that you'd have top of your CV. Interesting stats though. :)

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4696 - 16/08/2023 11:01:42    2500742

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Replying To Joxer:  "Was the quality of opposition taken into account Mick? Kerry put cricket scores up against two hurling counties to win Munster and without any disrespect to those counties, my granny would be winning kick-outs against them. Beating Tipp by 20 points in a Munster football final, keeping a clean sheet and hitting 100% of your kick-outs is not something that you'd have top of your CV. Interesting stats though. :)"
Most keepers have 100%kickouts when it's uncontested. I'm only giving the stats Joxer. Laois are hardly world beaters either and Dublin hardly have tough opposition in Leinster. As for the rest Dublin had Mayo and Monaghan we had Tyrone and Derry. Nitpick all you want Joxer but the stats are there. I get the feeling no matter what Shane Ryan did you would nt give him any credit eventhough you have nt seen all his games. Of course I'm bigging up my own but I did say I've no problem with Cluxton getting an all star either but Shane is up there too.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3605 - 16/08/2023 11:41:58    2500754

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Replying To oneoff:  "How was he poor in these games? Scored 3 points in the final and was involved with another 1-03 ."
Of course, you'd be hard put to paint his contribution in the final as a disaster, or even close to that - he had an OK game - but like it or not, players are judged to an extent on their own high standards, and everyone knows that Clifford (though a combination of being well marked and as a consequence on occasion forcing it a bit) was not at his consistent best in the final. Nobody from Kerry is telling me that he played a stormer in the final. And, to get POTY, you generally need to be able to say that about someone. The reason why so much emphasis is placed on performance in finals is that the pressure in them is higher. A fine display in a final rightly gets more credit than a brilliant performance in a provincial first round. Very obvious point, but it sometimes gets forgotten in the debate ...

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 229 - 16/08/2023 12:17:03    2500764

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Replying To Joxer:  "Was the quality of opposition taken into account Mick? Kerry put cricket scores up against two hurling counties to win Munster and without any disrespect to those counties, my granny would be winning kick-outs against them. Beating Tipp by 20 points in a Munster football final, keeping a clean sheet and hitting 100% of your kick-outs is not something that you'd have top of your CV. Interesting stats though. :)"
So again by your logic Claxtons kickouts being a big deal is actually a myth? Seeing as Dublin have been hammering teams or this another thing that's different because it's Claxton?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1360 - 16/08/2023 12:25:28    2500767

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Replying To oneoff:  "How was he poor in these games? Scored 3 points in the final and was involved with another 1-03 ."
He scored 2 from play in the final. The other was a free on the 21 in front of the posts. A Junior C corner-back would kick it, so it's not really relevant when grading his performance. The 2 points from play were good scores. The pass for the goal was sublime.
However, you also have to look at the negative side of the ledger. He kicked 5 wides and dropped another well short into Cluxton. He took on a few shots that really weren't on at a crucial time in the game. Most of the misses were at the most critical stage of the game, when the pressure was at its highest.
Overall, if you asked himself I'm sure he'd be disappointed with his overall performance. He's an exceptional forward, but on balance he didn't have a good final.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1989 - 16/08/2023 13:04:48    2500775

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