|
After a great football year, it was disappointing to finish with the RTE football panel on the Sunday Game being somewhat biased in their decision making, in picking both the player of the year and football team of the year.
Footballer of the Year
James McCarthy is one of my favorite players of all time and probably the best Dublin player ever to lace a boot. However, he was definitely not the player of the year for me this year. In the All Ireland final yesterday he gave away two early frees which Kerry scored from and he should have been clearly sent off for persistent fouling. If his name was not James McCarthy and captain of the Dublin team, he would have been sent off by the referee or taken off and substituted as he was having a terrible game.
While David Clifford left his shooting boots at home he won practically every ball against Mick Fitzsimons and set up numerous scoring opportunities for several other Kerry forwards, including the goal. In my opinion he had a much better year overall than James McCarthy. For consistency and excellence over the entire football year, I would have selected David Clifford, Brendan Rogers, Shane McGuigan, Enda Smith, Conor McCluskey, Stephen Cluxton and several others before James McCarthy. The panel were supposed to be voting for player of year for 2023 and not the player of all time.
Anyone with an interest in psychology would see great examples of selective perception bias, anchoring bias (historical playing history), groupthink and halo effect in their decision-making process. It is clearly a wrong decision and should be called out. I still have great respect for James McCarthy by the way and my respect for him has not changed. What a player he has been.
Team of the Year
While everyone would have their view on who should be on the team of the year, I find it very hard to understand some of the selections for the team this year. While the panel got many of their decisions correct, I felt that they got several clearly wrong and again suffered from some common biases and errors.
From a Roscommon perception we would have to ask did Paul Mannion have a better playing year than Enda Smith? The answer is clearly NO. Enda Smith had an outstanding year in all league and the championship. He was player of the match in three championship matches including the games against Mayo and Galway (two top contenders) and did not have a bad match all year. He adhered to the gameplan of playing deeper than normal in order to make space for other Roscommon forwards, and could not have done any more for the Roscommon team. I do not like running down other players, but apart from the All Ireland final, Paul Mannion did not have an outstanding year and was taken off in some matches. However, he did deserve the player of the match award yesterday.
Paul Mannion scored five points from play against his opposite number Tadhg Morley yesterday but Tadhg was still voted as the best center half back of the year. The center of Kerry's defence was clearly a major problem area for them yesterday. Gareth McKinless from Derry had a better year and should have been selected in that position. I will leave it at that!
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 631 - 31/07/2023 09:55:53
2497932
Link
2
|
|
Replying To letsgetgoing: "After a great football year, it was disappointing to finish with the RTE football panel on the Sunday Game being somewhat biased in their decision making, in picking both the player of the year and football team of the year.
Footballer of the Year
James McCarthy is one of my favorite players of all time and probably the best Dublin player ever to lace a boot. However, he was definitely not the player of the year for me this year. In the All Ireland final yesterday he gave away two early frees which Kerry scored from and he should have been clearly sent off for persistent fouling. If his name was not James McCarthy and captain of the Dublin team, he would have been sent off by the referee or taken off and substituted as he was having a terrible game.
While David Clifford left his shooting boots at home he won practically every ball against Mick Fitzsimons and set up numerous scoring opportunities for several other Kerry forwards, including the goal. In my opinion he had a much better year overall than James McCarthy. For consistency and excellence over the entire football year, I would have selected David Clifford, Brendan Rogers, Shane McGuigan, Enda Smith, Conor McCluskey, Stephen Cluxton and several others before James McCarthy. The panel were supposed to be voting for player of year for 2023 and not the player of all time.
Anyone with an interest in psychology would see great examples of selective perception bias, anchoring bias (historical playing history), groupthink and halo effect in their decision-making process. It is clearly a wrong decision and should be called out. I still have great respect for James McCarthy by the way and my respect for him has not changed. What a player he has been.
Team of the Year
While everyone would have their view on who should be on the team of the year, I find it very hard to understand some of the selections for the team this year. While the panel got many of their decisions correct, I felt that they got several clearly wrong and again suffered from some common biases and errors.
From a Roscommon perception we would have to ask did Paul Mannion have a better playing year than Enda Smith? The answer is clearly NO. Enda Smith had an outstanding year in all league and the championship. He was player of the match in three championship matches including the games against Mayo and Galway (two top contenders) and did not have a bad match all year. He adhered to the gameplan of playing deeper than normal in order to make space for other Roscommon forwards, and could not have done any more for the Roscommon team. I do not like running down other players, but apart from the All Ireland final, Paul Mannion did not have an outstanding year and was taken off in some matches. However, he did deserve the player of the match award yesterday.
Paul Mannion scored five points from play against his opposite number Tadhg Morley yesterday but Tadhg was still voted as the best center half back of the year. The center of Kerry's defence was clearly a major problem area for them yesterday. Gareth McKinless from Derry had a better year and should have been selected in that position. I will leave it at that!" Completely agree. How was McKinless not in that team? They said the last half forward position was the toughest and they eventually went for P Clifford! How was P Clifford not ahead of Sean O Se in the thinking? SOS is a fine player but he wasn't near team of the year similarly to P Mannion. I think some of their decisions in the half back and half forward lines were flawed. I would broadly agree with the rest of the selections. I think McGuigan would be second to Clifford for player of the year. O'Connell unlucky not to be in that team also.
MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 999 - 31/07/2023 10:43:18
2497943
Link
0
|
|
I wouldn't begrudge Clifford the award but it's unfair to him to be canonising him as GOAT. It is possibly pressurising him. The greats in both games - Ring, Canning, Shefflin, Gooch, Canavan et al are best remembered for their key roles in winning tight finals.
Clifford may well do that, probably will, but jury out for present.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 31/07/2023 11:06:00
2497955
Link
2
|
|
Was gas to hear a footballer of the year discussion surround two players who had just had such poor all-ireland finals performances by their own very very high standards. The captaincy often screws with a player's head on all-ireland final day, and I think that may have been the case with McCarthy and Clifford yesterday.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3875 - 31/07/2023 11:07:09
2497956
Link
0
|
|
Replying To letsgetgoing: "After a great football year, it was disappointing to finish with the RTE football panel on the Sunday Game being somewhat biased in their decision making, in picking both the player of the year and football team of the year.
Footballer of the Year
James McCarthy is one of my favorite players of all time and probably the best Dublin player ever to lace a boot. However, he was definitely not the player of the year for me this year. In the All Ireland final yesterday he gave away two early frees which Kerry scored from and he should have been clearly sent off for persistent fouling. If his name was not James McCarthy and captain of the Dublin team, he would have been sent off by the referee or taken off and substituted as he was having a terrible game.
While David Clifford left his shooting boots at home he won practically every ball against Mick Fitzsimons and set up numerous scoring opportunities for several other Kerry forwards, including the goal. In my opinion he had a much better year overall than James McCarthy. For consistency and excellence over the entire football year, I would have selected David Clifford, Brendan Rogers, Shane McGuigan, Enda Smith, Conor McCluskey, Stephen Cluxton and several others before James McCarthy. The panel were supposed to be voting for player of year for 2023 and not the player of all time.
Anyone with an interest in psychology would see great examples of selective perception bias, anchoring bias (historical playing history), groupthink and halo effect in their decision-making process. It is clearly a wrong decision and should be called out. I still have great respect for James McCarthy by the way and my respect for him has not changed. What a player he has been.
Team of the Year
While everyone would have their view on who should be on the team of the year, I find it very hard to understand some of the selections for the team this year. While the panel got many of their decisions correct, I felt that they got several clearly wrong and again suffered from some common biases and errors.
From a Roscommon perception we would have to ask did Paul Mannion have a better playing year than Enda Smith? The answer is clearly NO. Enda Smith had an outstanding year in all league and the championship. He was player of the match in three championship matches including the games against Mayo and Galway (two top contenders) and did not have a bad match all year. He adhered to the gameplan of playing deeper than normal in order to make space for other Roscommon forwards, and could not have done any more for the Roscommon team. I do not like running down other players, but apart from the All Ireland final, Paul Mannion did not have an outstanding year and was taken off in some matches. However, he did deserve the player of the match award yesterday.
Paul Mannion scored five points from play against his opposite number Tadhg Morley yesterday but Tadhg was still voted as the best center half back of the year. The center of Kerry's defence was clearly a major problem area for them yesterday. Gareth McKinless from Derry had a better year and should have been selected in that position. I will leave it at that!" RTE Radio did a different team of the year and it was much more balanced.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 31/07/2023 11:13:28
2497960
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Was gas to hear a footballer of the year discussion surround two players who had just had such poor all-ireland finals performances by their own very very high standards. The captaincy often screws with a player's head on all-ireland final day, and I think that may have been the case with McCarthy and Clifford yesterday." It sure didn't in 2012. :)
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9518 - 31/07/2023 11:36:44
2497970
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanman47: "RTE Radio did a different team of the year and it was much more balanced." The team was mainly chosen from yesterday's teams, with a nod to Derry and Monaghan, beaten semi finalists. Interesting to see what team is selected for the All Stars.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 31/07/2023 11:44:30
2497974
Link
0
|
|
Replying To BarneyGrant: "I wouldn't begrudge Clifford the award but it's unfair to him to be canonising him as GOAT. It is possibly pressurising him. The greats in both games - Ring, Canning, Shefflin, Gooch, Canavan et al are best remembered for their key roles in winning tight finals.
Clifford may well do that, probably will, but jury out for present." He did it last year and will do it plenty more
achara (Monaghan) - Posts: 573 - 31/07/2023 11:47:20
2497978
Link
1
|
|
Replying To letsgetgoing: "After a great football year, it was disappointing to finish with the RTE football panel on the Sunday Game being somewhat biased in their decision making, in picking both the player of the year and football team of the year.
Footballer of the Year
James McCarthy is one of my favorite players of all time and probably the best Dublin player ever to lace a boot. However, he was definitely not the player of the year for me this year. In the All Ireland final yesterday he gave away two early frees which Kerry scored from and he should have been clearly sent off for persistent fouling. If his name was not James McCarthy and captain of the Dublin team, he would have been sent off by the referee or taken off and substituted as he was having a terrible game.
While David Clifford left his shooting boots at home he won practically every ball against Mick Fitzsimons and set up numerous scoring opportunities for several other Kerry forwards, including the goal. In my opinion he had a much better year overall than James McCarthy. For consistency and excellence over the entire football year, I would have selected David Clifford, Brendan Rogers, Shane McGuigan, Enda Smith, Conor McCluskey, Stephen Cluxton and several others before James McCarthy. The panel were supposed to be voting for player of year for 2023 and not the player of all time.
Anyone with an interest in psychology would see great examples of selective perception bias, anchoring bias (historical playing history), groupthink and halo effect in their decision-making process. It is clearly a wrong decision and should be called out. I still have great respect for James McCarthy by the way and my respect for him has not changed. What a player he has been.
Team of the Year
While everyone would have their view on who should be on the team of the year, I find it very hard to understand some of the selections for the team this year. While the panel got many of their decisions correct, I felt that they got several clearly wrong and again suffered from some common biases and errors.
From a Roscommon perception we would have to ask did Paul Mannion have a better playing year than Enda Smith? The answer is clearly NO. Enda Smith had an outstanding year in all league and the championship. He was player of the match in three championship matches including the games against Mayo and Galway (two top contenders) and did not have a bad match all year. He adhered to the gameplan of playing deeper than normal in order to make space for other Roscommon forwards, and could not have done any more for the Roscommon team. I do not like running down other players, but apart from the All Ireland final, Paul Mannion did not have an outstanding year and was taken off in some matches. However, he did deserve the player of the match award yesterday.
Paul Mannion scored five points from play against his opposite number Tadhg Morley yesterday but Tadhg was still voted as the best center half back of the year. The center of Kerry's defence was clearly a major problem area for them yesterday. Gareth McKinless from Derry had a better year and should have been selected in that position. I will leave it at that!" Few little errors there.
Mannion got 5 points yesterday,4 of them from play.
He played at Full Forward and was marked by Jason Foley who incidentally didn't make the team of the year.
Enda is an excellent player but if your team doesn't make the quarter finals then you won't get included in any team of the year.
Hard to argue with with MC Carthy as player of the year. He is just so consistent, with the exception of yesterday. He is the captain and leader.
eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 1957 - 31/07/2023 11:53:04
2497980
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Was gas to hear a footballer of the year discussion surround two players who had just had such poor all-ireland finals performances by their own very very high standards. The captaincy often screws with a player's head on all-ireland final day, and I think that may have been the case with McCarthy and Clifford yesterday." It's player of the year, not player of the All Ireland Final.. There's an award for that, it's called Man of the match.
hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 251 - 31/07/2023 11:53:11
2497982
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "Was gas to hear a footballer of the year discussion surround two players who had just had such poor all-ireland finals performances by their own very very high standards. The captaincy often screws with a player's head on all-ireland final day, and I think that may have been the case with McCarthy and Clifford yesterday." More often than not politics plays no small part in picking Team Of The Year. Sometimes a bit of bias helps to pick player of the year.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3050 - 31/07/2023 12:01:44
2497989
Link
0
|
|
Replying To hyperache: "It's player of the year, not player of the All Ireland Final.. There's an award for that, it's called Man of the match." Poor all-ireland final displays have cost many players their all-star, and possibly their POTtY too.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3875 - 31/07/2023 12:06:20
2497991
Link
0
|
|
Replying To eoinog: "Few little errors there.
Mannion got 5 points yesterday,4 of them from play.
He played at Full Forward and was marked by Jason Foley who incidentally didn't make the team of the year.
Enda is an excellent player but if your team doesn't make the quarter finals then you won't get included in any team of the year.
Hard to argue with with MC Carthy as player of the year. He is just so consistent, with the exception of yesterday. He is the captain and leader." Captain and leader has nothing to do with it. The award is for PLAYER of the year.
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 631 - 31/07/2023 12:19:40
2498005
Link
2
|
|
Replying To BarneyGrant: "I wouldn't begrudge Clifford the award but it's unfair to him to be canonising him as GOAT. It is possibly pressurising him. The greats in both games - Ring, Canning, Shefflin, Gooch, Canavan et al are best remembered for their key roles in winning tight finals.
Clifford may well do that, probably will, but jury out for present." Based on whst is the jury out on Clifford? One game yesterday?
Not saying he's the greatest just yet. But it's laughable to see people based on one game that he's now overrated all of a sudden.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 31/07/2023 12:27:27
2498009
Link
0
|
|
Of course I'm biased but for me David Clifford is player of the year and this is why. Clifford has been super throughout league and championship. It's player of the year (not player of the month). Also before yesterday Clifford was red hot favourite for player of the year and last night TSG pick Mccarthy. Now I have great time for James but yesterday he was just OK so how could he overtake David. Now David being lambasted but was the direct cause of Kerry scoring at least 1-4.He scored 3 points two great points from play. Brilliant pass for the goal and unlucky not to score another goal. By his own high standards he was quiet but still was nt bad and over the year he was the top player. James Mccarthy had a good year too but his performance yesterday was nt enough to overtake David who was red hot favourite with Paddy Powers before yesterday. David Clifford player of the year.!
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 31/07/2023 12:44:10
2498013
Link
2
|
|
Replying To eoinog: "Few little errors there.
Mannion got 5 points yesterday,4 of them from play.
He played at Full Forward and was marked by Jason Foley who incidentally didn't make the team of the year.
Enda is an excellent player but if your team doesn't make the quarter finals then you won't get included in any team of the year.
Hard to argue with with MC Carthy as player of the year. He is just so consistent, with the exception of yesterday. He is the captain and leader." I think the Mayo performance coupled with the captaincy and the 9 medals is skewing the judgement. One of the greatest footballers ever...Yes; Had a good season...Yes; Was the consistently best performing footballer in the country in 2023..No.
MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 999 - 31/07/2023 13:04:38
2498015
Link
2
|
|
Replying To CiarraiMick: "Of course I'm biased but for me David Clifford is player of the year and this is why. Clifford has been super throughout league and championship. It's player of the year (not player of the month). Also before yesterday Clifford was red hot favourite for player of the year and last night TSG pick Mccarthy. Now I have great time for James but yesterday he was just OK so how could he overtake David. Now David being lambasted but was the direct cause of Kerry scoring at least 1-4.He scored 3 points two great points from play. Brilliant pass for the goal and unlucky not to score another goal. By his own high standards he was quiet but still was nt bad and over the year he was the top player. James Mccarthy had a good year too but his performance yesterday was nt enough to overtake David who was red hot favourite with Paddy Powers before yesterday. David Clifford player of the year.!" David's radar was unusually off yesterday. It can happen to the best. Everyone is saying Mick Fitz did a great job, and he did as good a job as any man I've seen trying to curtail him. But who knows, if it was drier yesterday and Clifford was striking as cleanly as he usually does, he could have hit Fitz for 1-4 or 1-5 and there would be absolutely zero debate on here about POTY.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9518 - 31/07/2023 13:48:02
2498037
Link
1
|
|
Whatever about DC being player of the year I'm sure it's of small consolation to him today, I think people saying he is the GOAT is total bs at this stage, a great talent for sure but wait another 6 or 7 years to see how he progresses, he is still very young.
I heard the BBC coverage yesterday describing DC as our version of Messi for the benefit of the British viewers, he certainly gave a messy performance yesterday by his own standards.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3029 - 31/07/2023 14:08:32
2498043
Link
0
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "Based on whst is the jury out on Clifford? One game yesterday?
Not saying he's the greatest just yet. But it's laughable to see people based on one game that he's now overrated all of a sudden." I didn't dispute that he be player of the year. I was referring to his being placed among the greatest indeed as THE Greatest ever. I'm sure he doesn't look on himself in that manner. He may well turn out to be among that elite, but not yet I suggest.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 31/07/2023 14:24:15
2498054
Link
2
|
|
For me the futility of this charade, it is utterly a pointless exercise. The two finalists HAVE to be represented, but the players picked are rarely the best in the chosen positions. The annual irratation is like a really bad itch. Who cares? After Cliffords performence he simply could not be chosen. For me it was Conor Glass in Football and about 16 of the Limerick hurling panel. But when players make their annual anyone but the dubs choices "balance" will be restored. Life is too short.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4940 - 31/07/2023 14:47:40
2498064
Link
0
|