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I didn't say anything about it being all about AI finals Mick. You're getting very defensive on this one. All I'm saying is that we all know that all stars and POTY are generally handed out to those who play very well at the business end of the championship. Surely you realise that. Kerry got 7 all-stars last year, Dublin got 1 yet the slimmest of margins separated both teams. That in itself should indicate on what basis these awards are dished out. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that's how it works. Performances at the business end of the championship, in high pressure games, hold a lot more weight than provisional first rounders against Laois or Clare. Connolly has 7 AIs, 4 NFLs, 11 Leinsters but he only has 2 all-stars because he didn't really performs well at the business end, apart from almost single-handedly retiring a Tyrone generation in 2011.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 17/08/2023 11:41:52 2500946 Link 1 |
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It's all about opinions. Basquel was the top scorer from play with 5-17. Shane McGuigan was the outright top scorer. But I guess POTY is supposed to be about so much more.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 17/08/2023 12:22:50 2500955 Link 1 |
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Well I suppose for a Dublin footballer the benchmark is 9 crosses, so yes for a Dublin player the criteria (plural of criterium) "ARE" different.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 793 - 17/08/2023 14:05:30 2500990 Link 1 |
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I am getting defensive Joxer as I don't agree with your little asides like Dublin had tougher opposition. Now Dublin as you posted played Louth (so did Kerry) Dublin played Kildare and Kerry played Tyrone. Dublin played Sligo and Kerry played Tipp. Dublin played Mayo (so did Kerry). Dubs played Roscommon while Kerry played Cork (who beat Roscommon) Dubs played Monaghan while Kerry played Derry. Now again these are facts Joxer but unless I'm paranoid you are trying to undermine some Kerry players. Some of the best scores this year were scored by Clifford but maybe you don't rate the opposition and maybe the best save this year was by Shane Ryan v Derry but maybe you don't rate them either. One has to be fair Joxer and credit is due when credit is due.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 17/08/2023 14:50:10 2501008 Link 3 |
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Has the supposed "King" won 9 All-Irelands? That's news to me.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 17/08/2023 15:14:04 2501014 Link 0 |
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Why are you again replying to a question you weren't asked?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 17/08/2023 15:15:37 2501016 Link 0 |
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Kerry also played Louth you do realise that don't you? As for Clare they ran Dublin pretty close in the league did they not? Or do you only start watching when the championship starts? oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 17/08/2023 15:17:41 2501017 Link 0 |
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I can't say who scored the best scores this year Mick because I only attended Dublin matches. Collie Basquel scored 5-17 from play this year. How many of those 5-17 did you see and were any better than Clifford's scores? While Clifford may have had some of the best scores he may also have had some of the best misses. My point on Kerry's opposition in Munster was that if you're using stats such as kick-outs won to claim that one keeper is better than another then you would need to add other variables into that, such as opposition. Kildare got within 2 points of us in the LSFC, the same margin that Kerry lost to us by. Not disrespecting Kerry's performances but hammering two hurling counties to win a provincial isn't the best measure of the abilities of a group of players.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 17/08/2023 15:43:41 2501029 Link 1 |
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I think a kit-kat is in order Mick ;o) Taking on too many posts on too many items, whilst possibly not in a good mood me thinks. No offence intended, so dont take it the wrong way.... ;o) Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3975 - 17/08/2023 15:47:12 2501031 Link 1 |
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Since 2000 the All Ireland champions have on average received 6.6 awards and 3.4 to the losing finalists, almost exactly 2:1, though the winning margin in the final was only 4pts on average (not inc drawn games). So only 5 awards on average for the others. Clearly the awards are "extra" embellishments for the winners and a bit of consolation for the losers because it's a rare year if ever that the 10 best performers of the season are playing in the final.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 793 - 17/08/2023 15:50:15 2501036 Link 2 |
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Yeah I think that's the long and short of it. Great players like Declan Browne and Mattie Forde have been part of the exclusive gang of 5 over the years but they're hard to come by if you don't make the showcase game.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 17/08/2023 17:24:43 2501058 Link 1 |
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So I your opinion Leinster is tougher than Munster. Kildare got within two points of Dublin. Sure Cork got within 2 points of Kerry and Cork beat Roscommon who drew with Dublin so maybe just maybe ah no sure you must be right Joxer. Kerry played easy games and Dublin played the hardest games
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 17/08/2023 17:36:35 2501061 Link 0 |
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I think we all agree Ulster is the strongest province. In the last 20 years only 5 teams have won the All ireland. Armagh Cork Donegal Dublin and Kerry. Two from Ulster (the strongest province) and two from Munster. Tipperary also have been in two all ireland semi finals in the very recent past and Clare in quarter finals. Not bad for hurling counties. Now how many leinster counties got to semi finals in the recent years. I deal with facts not fiction. Also Bernard Brogan got poty in 2010 and did nt play in final as Dublin were beaten in semi final by who? Oh yeah Cork!, A hurling county!
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 17/08/2023 17:47:48 2501064 Link 0 |
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No offence taken Fionn but there is still petrol in my gps tracker.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 17/08/2023 18:12:49 2501068 Link 0 |
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In my opinion, no, pur capital is not British. So you'll understand my confusion with the inhabitants' fondness for the flag of the union. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 17/08/2023 18:23:40 2501071 Link 1 |
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How many did Bernard score in that semi against Cork? He scored 1-7, 1-6 from play with a goal of the season contender. He was one of the gang of 5, non Final participant to win an all star and POTY. Cork have never been a hurling only county. They've always been dual and sure have 37 Munster titles. Real hurling counties like Limerick and Waterford have 1 title each (from the 19th century), Clare have 2 (1 post WW2), and Tipp have 10 (only 1 post WW2). So I think we can safely say that in Munster there are only really 2 counties with any interest in football and one of those is dual. Ulster is the most competitive province for sure but Ulster have only had a team in the final 3 times since 2010. Being competitive in your province is one thing. Being competitive outside it is another, as Kildare and Louth found this year also.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 18/08/2023 10:49:12 2501120 Link 2 |
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Amazing how offended and personal people get and make judgments about entire counties and question people's "agenda" by someone simply wondering if David Clifford may not be player of the year and innocently suggesting other players who also had a good year Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12199 - 18/08/2023 11:21:52 2501128 Link 1 |
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Yeah yeah whatever we are Union Jack waving chaps up in Dublin. Is that the best you can come up with???? By the way, ye must have been very fond of Elizabeth I retain the town name 'Virginia'. Obviously anxious to retain your links to the British monarch up in Cavan. :D avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1990 - 18/08/2023 11:58:08 2501137 Link 1 |
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Gang of 5 non final to win poty? You are wrong Joxer.Brogan is the only player in football to win poty that did nt play in final. Kevin Heffernan also got it (eventhough he did nt play and was manager).
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 18/08/2023 12:16:30 2501144 Link 0 |
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Obviously meant Tyrone and Donegal
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 18/08/2023 13:39:39 2501167 Link 0 |