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Not excellent enough to win either match though. Beaten by Galway and Wexford respectively.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2302 - 28/07/2023 20:47:24 2497516 Link 0 |
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The fact that Lyng did not consider their best underage prospect for a while - Drennan - worthy of a place at the business end of the season suggests that they do not have the same level of talent coming through. Of course, Lyng may have looked on this year as his last chance with like of the the Reids to stop Limerick so was relatively conservative in his selection. Next year might be more of a rebuilding and clear out. They will always be there of course as they maintain high standards across every grade. Might be a few more years in the relative wilderness perhaps ... BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3225 - 28/07/2023 20:49:34 2497517 Link 0 |
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I was with you until your comment that there was not one thrown ball. You're either blind or having a laugh. Limerick deserved to win and are a seriously good team but by god do they throw the ball to get an advantage which they did repeatedly in the final. It's even crept in to a lesser extent with Kilkenny. It's the scourge of the modern game and if it cannot be policed then it has to be banned. The rule is that there has to be a clear striking action with the hand. Rolling it to the end of your fingertips and then throwing it does not constitute a legitimate hand pass. Hurling is a stick game not handball. The throw has absolutely no skill to it and favours athleticism over skill. Some of Limericks second half points were unbelievable and had a huge degree of skill. But the throw is not a skill. Get down to specsavers now and don't go driving any vehicles before you get those new specs Sylvester (Kilkenny) - Posts: 6 - 28/07/2023 21:17:50 2497518 Link 1 |
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They won an u20 all Ireland last year and were in 3 minor all Ireland's in a row but lost them all to a freak run of success by Galway, won a lot of the recent schools all irelands. If that's a poor underage results the last few years, God help the rest of us, the only ones who've been better or in more finals the last 5 years or so underage are Galway and Cork.
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 285 - 28/07/2023 23:10:58 2497528 Link 0 |
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I was with you until your comment that there was not one thrown ball. You're either blind or having a laugh. Limerick deserved to win and are a seriously good team but by god do they throw the ball to get an advantage which they did repeatedly in the final. It's even crept in to a lesser extent with Kilkenny. It's the scourge of the modern game and if it cannot be policed then it has to be banned. The rule is that there has to be a clear striking action with the hand. Rolling it to the end of your fingertips and then throwing it does not constitute a legitimate hand pass. Hurling is a stick game not handball. The throw has absolutely no skill to it and favours athleticism over skill. Some of Limericks second half points were unbelievable and had a huge degree of skill. But the throw is not a skill. Get down to specsavers now and don't go driving any vehicles before you get those new specs Sylvester (Kilkenny) - Posts: 6 - 28/07/2023 23:34:55 2497530 Link 0 |
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Kilkenny were well beaten by Galway minors this year. Wexford were victorious at U20 level. Still think they need some fresh faces in the Senior panel.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 28/07/2023 23:35:08 2497531 Link 0 |
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Nothing freak about Galway at minor. They are excellent at that grade. Unfortunately they can not bring that forward even to U20 never mind Senior. Kilkenny though have a huge tradition and I can't see them being away for long.When this Limerick team stops winning, Kilkenny will be waiting . I think Cork will come with a team over the next couple of years and will emerge as the biggest immediate threat to the Treaty.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2302 - 29/07/2023 09:02:50 2497538 Link 0 |
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A few years ago Cian Lynch was caught for three 'throws'. When they were played back on slow motion all three were perfectly fine. So go easy on your Specsax vers. Anyway, Cork had nine handpasses in the lead up their goal in the 2021 Final. It was Cork who started all this handpassing back in Cusacks day and the likes of Davy then took to the fair altogether. Our boys had no option but to go with it. Anyway if it was done with tomorrow LK would still be winning.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4468 - 29/07/2023 09:41:31 2497541 Link 0 |
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All teams are doing it and have been for a while now. There was a clear throw by tom phelan to Deegan for the second goal but never mentioned. Morrissey was guilty of one if not two throws but bar that I didn't see many others. Will o donoghue and Mike casey have perfected the hand ball over the head hand pass which imo is a serious skill to have when under pressure and is 100% legal. Cian lynch always separates the hand from the ball. Cork imo are the worst culprits for this. Back in 2018 I couldn't believe how many times they did it in the AI semi and Limerick clearly learned from it. Limerick have been blown a few times this year for it and rightly so but all teams are at it especially under pressure. I noticed in the league that limerick had brought in the short brick flick pass in place of the hand pass. It was very noticeable and something I can see them developing to stay ahead of the curve with potential change afoot with the hand pass. They used it several times last Sunday with Dan Morrissey Darragh o Donovan Lynch WoD Hayes Tom Morrissey Flanagan the main ones to do it. Limerick will evolve if change is brought in and I think they might again have stolen a march daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 29/07/2023 09:58:47 2497545 Link 0 |
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Watched both games was at the 2nd one. Saw Kilkennys minors live too. Saw their u20s twice. Some excellent players on both.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 29/07/2023 09:59:46 2497546 Link 0 |
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You should've watched more of their games yourself. Drennan is an excellent freetaker but I wouldn't have him in their top 4 Senior prospects from that under 20 team. He has potential but the media hype about him after the League this year was way OTT.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 29/07/2023 10:02:16 2497547 Link 0 |
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Their minors only lost to the 2 minor finalists this year too. And tbh the management teams of both their underage teams weren't great. I'm certain both will be replaced for next year. Kierans hammered the Galway lads in the schools final also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 29/07/2023 10:04:12 2497548 Link 0 |
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I don't think it's 'unfortunate' really. It's just that minor is a different game to u20, and a completely alien game compared to intercounty senior hurling. In the last 30 years, Galway obviously developed well honed routines to produce all ireland winning minors, but 90+% of those minors were never going to have the all-around package required to become allireland winning senior hurlers. The Galway minors can be successful with just a concentration on elite stick skills and speed. For the main part, they take those skills into u2o and senior, but it's just not enough to cut the mustard as those levels, where there's far more of a requirement for physicality, hard ball winning capability, aerial skills and all round strength size and power, on top of the elite stick skills and speed that would be the calling card of most winning Galway minor sides that I've seen.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3906 - 29/07/2023 10:34:15 2497550 Link 0 |
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You replied twice to my post. Did you not see that? What's this you were saying about Spec-savers? If there'd been even one throw by a Limk player, you can be sure that Jackie Tyrrell or Joe Canning would have well documented it on the Sunday Game. Not one geex out of any pundit or the presenter about thrown balls. Why not? Because no ball was thrown in the entire game, by either side. If you think there was, send us the time checks for when they happened. I'm only too happy to re-watch that match. I'll slow it down wherever you claim that a ball may have been thrown, and check things out. foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2107 - 29/07/2023 12:36:09 2497561 Link 0 |
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I'd say I saw nearly every under 20 game, either being there for the Dublin ones, or on streams. Drennan is much more than a freetaker and had you been paying attention last Sunday you'd have seen that better judges than myself and yourself had him in at no 26 on the day.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3225 - 29/07/2023 18:00:13 2497612 Link 2 |
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8:47 Tom Morrisey 12:00 Kyle Hayes 12:01 Barry Nash 12:03 Tom Morrisey I could go on. Definite throws. No clear separation or striking action. Now don't get me wrong Limerick are entitled to do it if they get away with it and as another poster said Cork are much worse. The KK pass from Phelan looked like a throw. Your post incensed me because there is obviously throwing going on and you choose not to see it. In fact quite the opposite , you state that clearly there were no throws. Laughable. If you think that any RTE pundits will call it out then show me any instance when this has happened. Donal Og Cusack selects the odd legitimate throw to rubbish claims that it's going on. Not one of them has the balls to risk their lucrative punditry to call it out. Sheedy half heartedly called out one for Waterford against his own Tipp - a blatant throw for a goal but it was laughed off by that ace spoofer McGrath. Take off your green glasses for a minute put on your thinking head and consider our great game and where it's going. The handpsss should be banned if referees cannot police it. Otherwise our game will turn into football - a quasi rugby bore fest. Sylvester (Kilkenny) - Posts: 6 - 29/07/2023 22:06:46 2497634 Link 0 |
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That last line is my favourite and I couldn't agree more.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3223 - 30/07/2023 09:37:27 2497656 Link 0 |
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Kilkenny will never be outside the top 3 hurling counties in Ireland, their standard of club and schools hurling is excellent so the elite talent will always be there. Past hurler (None) - Posts: 835 - 30/07/2023 10:44:28 2497664 Link 0 |
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Well Sylvester, I am 73 and if I was to get incensed by what other pundits say I would have dropped all contact with Gaelic Games decades ago. Why are you so easily incensed because somebody disagrees with you. Anyway if all the throws you mention were blown if would make little or no material difference to the result. When a team scores thirty times to their opponents seventeen then I am sure you will agree they were worthy winners. Now we have people putting a lot of emphasis on one misapplication of the rules but there is a rule that if you drop the hurley and then handpass it, it is automatically a free. TJ, and yes he is only one of many, did it in the build up to KKs second goal last year and I am told, though I did not bother playing it back, as I do not believe in nit picking when a game is over-win or lose-that WW took ten steps , with the ball in his hand, in the build up to the second goal. KK could easily have won the game last year and would have benefitted from those refereeing oversights, but best of luck to them if they had. I could also remind you that a persistent fouling rule came in years ago. It has literally never been applied to players outside the Full Back line. As regards bending the rules every team do it. As far back as the late seventies Christy Ring was coaching Cork Players to carry the ball in their hand further, as Leinster Referees tended to be more Lax in relation to that rule. Fact is Sylvester it is only a game- in other words a bit of fun, and in games the playful things will get away with what they can and always have. Finally, is it just possible that you are suffering from a condition diagnosed by Anthony Daly, namely the '**** off back to Clare Syndrome'. The gallant Ant reckoned that when his side won their first All Ireland they got all the usual plaudits, congratulations, 'great for the game' bullshit and all that, but when they they won the second, all 'the real Hurling' counties, just wished they had known their place, after winning one, and then '****** off back back to Banner land. Can you imaging how these people feel when a little hurling county, with about one fifth the hurling population of Cork shatters most of the records. Remember when KK had a few back off in '73, 2010 and'13 they fell in their backsides. This LK in three out out of the last four years have withstood massive injury crises and yet prevailed. Some team Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4468 - 30/07/2023 11:00:57 2497667 Link 1 |
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A lot of counties are quick to pick out Limerick and talk about the amount of hand passing and how it's ruining the game. One thing we also do is stick pass a lot where the ball is pinged chest height between players from Hurley to hand. This is high risk stuff requiring ridiculous levels of accuracy, confidence, skill and touch and no other team comes close. Where KK are hitting grass, Limerick are hitting to hand. What is easier or more skilful when coming out of a packed defence, clearing your lines with a booming clearance or getting your head up and pinging a pass to a person. Limerick also mix it up they go direct into the full forward line constantly, the only difference is they only hit in if it's on, it's rarely a hit and hope. Also this is Limericks style, their method of play that they have worked on, we love it and the players love it, other counties are free to play the game whatever way they choose and rather than complain about the direction of the game just come up with a method of play and tactics that's suitable to your squad of players. I hear the likes of Bubbles complain about the game or the almost pompous air of "I'm a traditionalist" from others but Bubbles he had played ina team like Limerick he could have been a superstar with the service he would have received. Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 411 - 30/07/2023 11:33:03 2497673 Link 0 |