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Replying To CiarraiMick: "There is a big difference between spending and receiving. If your in Dublin and playing in croke park you don't have to spend money on travel or hotels. I think that's obvious. Also why is it when people ask about Dublin and croke park they are called whingers? Many from Dublin say they like to play away but when Donegal objected to the croke park issue during the supper 8s it was the Dublin ceo That was whinging saying "Donegal are mean spirited". Every county deserves an even break but while I do agree Croke park should be used for big games and finals etc I think counties are entitled to neutral or home venue arrangements.While it might not be Dublin's fault the gaa did not give Leinster teams fair play. I 2006 Longford were unlucky to bt Dublin in Pearse PK. After that Dublin did nt play a championship game agsin outside croke park for over 10 yrs. When it happened Laois were the home team but the gaa told Laois that their stadium did nt have enough seats for The Dub season ticket holders so the game would be played in Kilkenny. Laois objected saying Kilkenny is nt their home ground but gaa insisted. Many Laois fans boycotted game due to this. Following year Carlow got home venue v Dubs but we're told No you can't play in Carlow as you have enough seats for Dub season ticket holder but you can play in guess where. Yes Portlaoise!, Yes where Laois could nt play. You could nt make it up. It dies nt end there. A few yrs ago Westmeath were nt allowed to use home pitch v Dublin. cos of floodlights or something to do with sky sports. I fairness even the great James Mccarthy spoke out about it. The gaa has treated Dublin like the favourite child and while not Dublin's faults it is wrong and anyone that points it out is accused of whi going by some posters. Dublin have been a fantastic football team in spite of all this and no one has more admiration for them than I. Also I admire 80 tto 90% of their supporters but facts are facts and posters should nt think the truth is an attack in greatness. In the fullness of time Cluxton Mccarthy Fenton etc will always be remembered as all time great and rightly so." Ive been to Cork, Derry, Limerick, Navan Laois, Kilkenny and Cavan this year Michael. Dublin have the Gibson hotel before and after matches in Corker by the way.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4515 - 06/07/2023 13:55:57
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Dublin have travelled all over during league? So have everyone else Joxer. The fact remains that Kerry Mayo etc gave more travelling. Also Kerry for example had hurlers playing in croke park last year. For you to say travelling does nt matter is ridiculous. Example Dublin played both leinster semi final and final in croker league final in croker and all ireland quarter final on croker semi and final of they get there. That's 6 big games with little or no travel. Kerry travelled for their munster final and have to travel for league finals and big championship games. How you can compare is crazy. That's why Galways spend is so big. Maybe you think we all get free diesel and free hotels." I'm not getting your point. You raised the matter of expenses as though Dublin don't have to worry about them. The footballers played all over the place in the league and in Laois and Kilkenny in the championship. The hurlers have been playing all over the place too. Where's this big disparity in expenses incurred that you seem to think exists? Have the Kerry senior hurlers been traipsing all over the country unbeknownst to the rest of us? Croke Park is in Leinster. Where do you expect that LSFC semis and final should be played, Thurles? Are MSFC games played in Louth? Sorry but I'm just not getting the expenses point. Dublin had to play 3 games to get out of Leinster. Kerry had to play 2 to get out of Munster. Both teams had to play 1 game away. We're not flying down to these venues on magic carpets so I don't know why there's such a supposed gap.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4742 - 06/07/2023 14:26:24
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Replying To TheUsername: "Ive been to Cork, Derry, Limerick, Navan Laois, Kilkenny and Cavan this year Michael. Dublin have the Gibson hotel before and after matches in Corker by the way." I think Mick thinks that the Dubs have a magic carpet. Apparently we don't incur expenses nor need diesel. It's a complete nonsense point.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4742 - 06/07/2023 14:27:49
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Replying To TheUsername: "Ive been to Cork, Derry, Limerick, Navan Laois, Kilkenny and Cavan this year Michael. Dublin have the Gibson hotel before and after matches in Corker by the way." Agreed re match day. But expenses getting to training are much higher for players Dublin North to South, 50 km. Galway east to west 160km. Cork close to 200km. Also some lads working in Dublin playing for western sea board counties ( regardless of expenses its scarcely tenable with current demands of county player )
anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 981 - 06/07/2023 14:29:37
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Well if the Dublin team stay in hotels before games in croke park that's a new one Ó have nt heard of and I've heard the Brogans say on a few occasions it's great to be able to sleep in your own bed before big games in croke park. Now it seems to me you exaggerate a little Joxer. Example who said Kerry were poor? Kerry are well looked after by Kerry group (we don't get as much of the gaa) but our sponser is great like Dublin's. Also of course Croke park us needed for big capacity games. All people want is fair play. I have no problem with All ireland semis and finals being played in croke park. I have no problem with Dublin playing their home games there but I do have a problem with them playing neutral games there like the super 8s farce.The world over in every sport home venue is an advantage for numerous reasons." The Dubs use the Gibson when playing in Dublin Mick. I'm not sure where you're coming from with neutral farce Mick. That was years ago. The Dubs have played in Limerick, Cork, Derry, Meath, Laois and Kilkenny in league and championship this year, all over the country North, South, East and West. I've no idea what point you're trying to make as you keep flipping between money and venues. What exactly are you saying is unfair given that the venue myth is now also debunked?
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4742 - 06/07/2023 14:33:52
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Replying To anotheralias: "Agreed re match day. But expenses getting to training are much higher for players Dublin North to South, 50 km. Galway east to west 160km. Cork close to 200km. Also some lads working in Dublin playing for western sea board counties ( regardless of expenses its scarcely tenable with current demands of county player )" Absolutely and that's a fair point.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4742 - 06/07/2023 14:42:33
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Replying To TheUsername: "Yes have been for years, delighted you've found out. So you need to add your provincial grant to your games development grant to get your total games development sum for your games development
That's a silly thing to say, absolutely no economic argument/decision in the world is made on the basis on population per captia - that's quite mad, in fact very much the opposite is true. ;D
You are making irrelevant points now and waffling - i didn't ask you about Ulster per capita.
I also didn't ask you if Monghan had a CEO.
I said answer the questions i posed comparatively and evidentially to prove your point and that your your not spoofing?" You bring up per capita constantly....Its nothing anyone who understands economic modelling for this type of discussion would do. You honestly think another sporting organisation makes funding decisions on a per capita basis? The GAA dont even do it that way! Its illogical to say its all good because X county gets a small amount per capita.
Its indisputable that Dublin have received way more than any other county and have done for years and years.
The OP was Dublin is a professional set up as its ran as such with more paid staff and backroom than any other county. You can have all these things when you get millions from the GAA and millions more from sponsorship from international insurance companies etc.
The proof is publicly available to you. I can't help you read and understand it.
Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 06/07/2023 14:49:23
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Replying To Joxer: "I'm not getting your point. You raised the matter of expenses as though Dublin don't have to worry about them. The footballers played all over the place in the league and in Laois and Kilkenny in the championship. The hurlers have been playing all over the place too. Where's this big disparity in expenses incurred that you seem to think exists? Have the Kerry senior hurlers been traipsing all over the country unbeknownst to the rest of us? Croke Park is in Leinster. Where do you expect that LSFC semis and final should be played, Thurles? Are MSFC games played in Louth? Sorry but I'm just not getting the expenses point. Dublin had to play 3 games to get out of Leinster. Kerry had to play 2 to get out of Munster. Both teams had to play 1 game away. We're not flying down to these venues on magic carpets so I don't know why there's such a supposed gap." Player expenses. Is it not obvious??
Are there many dubs working in Donegal, Kerry, Mayo, Galway etc that have to commute back for training?
Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 06/07/2023 14:53:02
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Replying To legendzxix: "The RTÉ podcast were complaining about teams playing 3 weekends in a row. It's comical! Complaining about no jeopardy and then complaining of a reward for winning the groups!" Didn't watch or have any plans to do so however all last 8 teams should have at least 14 days to prepare for their All-Ireland Quarter final.
Straight into the Quarter final for finishing top is enough of reward.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3606 - 06/07/2023 15:10:44
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Replying To TheUsername: "Ive been to Cork, Derry, Limerick, Navan Laois, Kilkenny and Cavan this year Michael. Dublin have the Gibson hotel before and after matches in Corker by the way." But sure we all travel for league matches. I've been to Donegal Tyrone etc but for championship Dublin have less travel than every other county and that's a fact so less expense. How do you not get that?, On the Gibson hotel I'm aware the team meet there for meetings before a big match and stay all ireland final night if they in it but I'm not sure the players stay in the hotel the night before. As I've said the Brogans stated they loved sleeping at home before big games. Facts are facts. It's obvious that the counties that travel most will spend most money. Hence Galway being a top dual county.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3901 - 06/07/2023 15:14:02
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Replying To Gator: "You bring up per capita constantly....Its nothing anyone who understands economic modelling for this type of discussion would do. You honestly think another sporting organisation makes funding decisions on a per capita basis? The GAA dont even do it that way! Its illogical to say its all good because X county gets a small amount per capita.
Its indisputable that Dublin have received way more than any other county and have done for years and years.
The OP was Dublin is a professional set up as its ran as such with more paid staff and backroom than any other county. You can have all these things when you get millions from the GAA and millions more from sponsorship from international insurance companies etc.
The proof is publicly available to you. I can't help you read and understand it." I outlined per captia that Dublin receive less then Monaghan, as you were making a point on resources.
So what you are saying, is that no body involved in financial modelling considers per captia of population in any financial distribution - that's quite mad. Why is there a Luas in Dublin and not Clones! Why isnt there a motorway going through Connemara or Oranmore. Its quite mad the point you are making.
Of course but there is a difference between equality and equity in this case. Dublin receive 60 apples that has to go to feed 100 Apples. Monaghan receive 50 Apples that go to feeding 30 people. Dublin have more apples, but Monaghan have more apples to go around. Its quite simple.
Again i asked you to post comparative, evidential data with Monaghan to illustrate these salaries to back up your exertion - you have failed to do so. Why dont i just call Monghan professional - i have no evidence but currently that seems to be the threshold.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4515 - 06/07/2023 15:17:10
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Replying To Joxer: "The Dubs use the Gibson when playing in Dublin Mick. I'm not sure where you're coming from with neutral farce Mick. That was years ago. The Dubs have played in Limerick, Cork, Derry, Meath, Laois and Kilkenny in league and championship this year, all over the country North, South, East and West. I've no idea what point you're trying to make as you keep flipping between money and venues. What exactly are you saying is unfair given that the venue myth is now also debunked?" The quarter finals are neutral venue according to the gaa. Now I don't believe in magic carpets but you keep going on about what other counties spend
Other counties have to travel more than Dublin. Use hotels more than Dublin. Players live outside their counties. Most Dublin players live in Dublin. You seem to think the country teams have free travel a d accommodation. Also teams from west fly to New York and London every year. I don't think Michael Ó Leary is giving them free trips. My point is Dublin do Not have the same expense as other teams and if you can't understand that then that's fine.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3901 - 06/07/2023 15:20:29
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Replying To turnip12: "Does anyone know where to get stats on the All Ireland games? I can find them anywhere on the interweb.
I heard a number of people say Armagh were the better team against Monaghan at the weekend but that is not how I saw the game live or when I watched i afterwards. I though Monaghan dominated and controlled the second half until the black card. Ross Munnelly in his interview on OFB afterwards seemed to be of the same view.
Others like Paddy Andrews and Johny Ward of OTB are saying the opposite and doing so very definitively, arguing that Armagh threw it away etc. To me they seem to be relying on preconceptions and lazy analysis.
Surely a look at total shots should settle the debate? Any idea where to get the full set of stats?" Added it up myself while watching.
Armagh 0-14 from 22 shots, Monaghan 0-14 from 29 shots.
Armagh had a few decent goal scoring opportunities that's where some pundits probably think Armagh threw it away?
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3606 - 06/07/2023 15:24:47
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "But sure we all travel for league matches. I've been to Donegal Tyrone etc but for championship Dublin have less travel than every other county and that's a fact so less expense. How do you not get that?, On the Gibson hotel I'm aware the team meet there for meetings before a big match and stay all ireland final night if they in it but I'm not sure the players stay in the hotel the night before. As I've said the Brogans stated they loved sleeping at home before big games. Facts are facts. It's obvious that the counties that travel most will spend most money. Hence Galway being a top dual county." The point is Mick i think your over compensating, i think you are trying to explain away a lot of what goes into arms war in terms of inter county preparation on logistics and travel cost. Sure Dublin may ravel marginally less, but its still a cost. we are duel county and underage teams both codes very rarely play at home - as our Seniors would - but thtas down to success and palying in HQ.
I think you are being a bit smoke and mirrors - we pump money in - but Kerry and Galway pump just as much and likely more - Kerry's management ticket is ridiculous and a pretty penny went into it - so no point with the poor mouth logistics stuff. As you know Kerrys sponsorship in particular is well incentivised toward success funded.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4515 - 06/07/2023 15:40:37
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Replying To TheUsername: "I outlined per captia that Dublin receive less then Monaghan, as you were making a point on resources.
So what you are saying, is that no body involved in financial modelling considers per captia of population in any financial distribution - that's quite mad. Why is there a Luas in Dublin and not Clones! Why isnt there a motorway going through Connemara or Oranmore. Its quite mad the point you are making.
Of course but there is a difference between equality and equity in this case. Dublin receive 60 apples that has to go to feed 100 Apples. Monaghan receive 50 Apples that go to feeding 30 people. Dublin have more apples, but Monaghan have more apples to go around. Its quite simple.
Again i asked you to post comparative, evidential data with Monaghan to illustrate these salaries to back up your exertion - you have failed to do so. Why dont i just call Monghan professional - i have no evidence but currently that seems to be the threshold." The fact is the 100 people Dublin can feed with apples, they choose to only feed 30 people and make them bigger and bigger, whilst the other 70 people Dublin let starve and neglect and dont even try to promote the game to or play. Whereas in Monaghan we feed our clubs and ensure all the people have facilities instead of allowing teams like kilmacud to have 8 to 10 teams instead of having 5 clubs made out of it and feeding them all.
monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 410 - 06/07/2023 15:44:32
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Replying To monaghanmad: "The fact is the 100 people Dublin can feed with apples, they choose to only feed 30 people and make them bigger and bigger, whilst the other 70 people Dublin let starve and neglect and dont even try to promote the game to or play. Whereas in Monaghan we feed our clubs and ensure all the people have facilities instead of allowing teams like kilmacud to have 8 to 10 teams instead of having 5 clubs made out of it and feeding them all." That's not true at all, in fact much of Dublin game development strategy takes place in schools with boys and girls who up to this point haven't played Gaelic Games - as it should be per captia in my opinion as opposed to feeding a capatured audience in Monaghan. our model isnt pumping money into infrastructure vanity projects or those already playing the games in clubs like you mention it is in Monghan, though to be fair there is loads to go around.
The Dublin County team dont even have a Centre of Excellence at the moment.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4515 - 06/07/2023 16:22:21
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Replying To monaghanmad: "The fact is the 100 people Dublin can feed with apples, they choose to only feed 30 people and make them bigger and bigger, whilst the other 70 people Dublin let starve and neglect and dont even try to promote the game to or play. Whereas in Monaghan we feed our clubs and ensure all the people have facilities instead of allowing teams like kilmacud to have 8 to 10 teams instead of having 5 clubs made out of it and feeding them all." I used to live up in Dublin and played briefly in Crokes. You say they should make 5 more clubs in the area. How do you propose to make that happen? Who will set up these extra clubs? Where? With what money? Why shouldn't youngsters in the catchment area get to play for their local club regardless of how big or small it is?
SimonstownBack (Meath) - Posts: 163 - 06/07/2023 16:54:22
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Something else I have to complain about is the programme on Sunday. Derry and Cork playing on the 30th anniversary of 1993 and they only have 1 page about the 1993 game and just 2 small photos. RTE wrote an article about 1993 and in the caption under one of the photos they said the Derry captain was Seamus Heaney.
It is unfortunate that the programme next week will be half taken up by the Junior final.
PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 263 - 06/07/2023 17:02:03
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Dublin GAA is keeping the games and the associated community alive across all games, not just senior football.
In 30 years time most of the population of Dublin will not even be Irish and the games here will be on their last legs. So. We will make the most of it while it lasts. If that's okay :-)
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3503 - 06/07/2023 17:14:04
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Replying To TheUsername: "That's not true at all, in fact much of Dublin game development strategy takes place in schools with boys and girls who up to this point haven't played Gaelic Games - as it should be per captia in my opinion as opposed to feeding a capatured audience in Monaghan. our model isnt pumping money into infrastructure vanity projects or those already playing the games in clubs like you mention it is in Monghan, though to be fair there is loads to go around.
The Dublin County team dont even have a Centre of Excellence at the moment." Dont have a centre of excellence but can have the biggest backroom team for your teams in all of Ireland and have a few development officers in 1 school and not throw any in rugby or soccer areas to promote the sport. Dont even have your own stadium, instead splashing money at short term teams. You do understand in 30 years time when people remember the 6 in a row team the first thing they will think of is funding and money.
monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 410 - 06/07/2023 17:25:46
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