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All-Ireland Senior Football Championship 2023

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Kerry won their 2014 All Ireland by packing the defence, fighting in the trenches, and hitting on the break. They were lauded as tactical geniuses for it. Dublin held the ball for minutes at a time in 2018 and refused to kick from anywhere outside 30m - similarly they were praised. Just sayin..."
That's actually a misconception because of the Donegal set up on the day. Nieve it or not Kerry played with 6 backs that day and no sweeper. However because Donegal only played 2 upfront most of the time it looked like Kerry had a packed defense. Kerry play defensive now and a sweeper but in 2014 it was misread. A very poor final though tbh.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 05/07/2023 16:37:35    2492486

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Replying To Joxer:  "Like I said, it's all relative. The original point that was made, or implied, by somebody was that money equals success. Obviously that's nonsense and that point continues to be disproved time and time by counties investing highly and not progressing beyond AIQFs in some cases. What's the gap between Mayo and Leitrim over that period or Kerry and Waterford or Kildare and Carlow and so on? Almost all counties are prepared professionally and have centres of excellence, or access to them, as well as top level coaching and backroom teams. In football there have been 3 different AI champions in the last 3 years."
You're not making the point you think you are.

The teams with the most money have the most success. Its blatantly obvious at this point. Mayo might seem unsuccessful in your eyes....They have won the league twice in recent years, multiple connacht titles and contested multiple all ireland finals.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 05/07/2023 16:37:36    2492487

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Replying To Joxer:  "It's all relative though isn't it? Galway spent more on IC last year than any county, I think it was Mayo the year before. Most IC squads these days prepare like professionals, all have fitness coaches, nutritionists, analysts etc. The combined Munster spend in 2022 was €8.8m Tipp spent €1.8m, Limerick almost €2m, Cork €1.7m, Kerry €1.4m. Are you saying that these aren't professionally prepared counties? You're damn right they are."
Any county to succeed needs money but it's obvious that the further away from Dublin a county is the more they spend on travel hotels etc. Hotels in Dublin are astronomical prices now since covid. We can discuss finance all day but the facts are for years Dúin recieved in the region of 274e per registered player and the nearest were Mayo with 22e or thereabouts. John Connla has challenged that and now it's a hit fairer although the figures published last year by Pat Teahen or Ryan (maybe I've the names wrong) showed a decline in Dublin's payments although still away more than otjers
However when John Connellan a barrister demanded the see the figures there was one mistake! Yes you guessed Dublin got away more again than was published. A simple mistake maybe but no other county had that mistake. Rté and Tubridy comes to mind. Now that's the gaa and that's not Dublin's fault. However I along with many Dubs I work with believe the gaa should be giving the big money to the counties that need it
Now as I've stared on many posts Kerry are lucky we have a brilliant sponser so we fine. So are Mayo Cork and Dublin. On professionalism yes the Dublin s The Kerry's of this world are professional to a degree. They don't get paid but the players make money in sponsership etc that lower grade county players don't get. Also some of the top players get cars etc. Also I know for a fact some top players can get time of work ré training etc while not losing money and I can only speak for Kerry and Dublin in this regard. So yes a degree of professionalism. Limerick are very well looked after by all accounts too. The money does nt seperate Dubkin Kerry Mayo Cork Limerick etc but yes for sure those counties have a massive advantage over alot of counties. Now takent is very important too but players cannot be expected to play and lose money and that's why some counties don't have their best players playing.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 05/07/2023 17:14:43    2492495

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Replying To TheUsername:  "That may well be Mick, but its on my mind and it will be on the players minds as well when they face Monaghan and they will be reminded of that i can guarantee.

We chalked one off the hit list last weekend and why not settle a score when you can - its competitive sport after all."
Well in my opinion there might be a revenge factor v Mayo and familiarity breeds contempt and all that I think Dublin don't gave a grudge v Monaghan and will be just looking at the big picture of an All ireland final User.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 05/07/2023 17:17:05    2492496

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Replying To TheUsername:  "The media are complacent.

But i see plenty of motivation for Dublin Vs Monaghan its just about 16 months since they sent us down to Div 2.

We owe them one."
Dublin to win.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1741 - 05/07/2023 17:19:35    2492498

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Mayo Dublin Cork Galway Tipperary Roscommon and Kerry all topped €1million spending on their "flagship" teams way back as far as 2016, Mayo leading the way on €1.6m. At least Dublin Cork and Galway's could be mitigated by having big football and hurling commitments. So just for football the biggest spenders Mayo, Rossies and Kerry."
A large chunk of the money spent by those counties is on traveling expensives.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3347 - 05/07/2023 17:31:02    2492499

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Replying To Gator:  "Games development is one part of the funding, its not the entire figure....You know that right?

A serious person knows per capita is a nonsense. Ireland is the richest country in the world per capita.

Look at the funding on a per club basis if you want to average it out....its hardly ideal either but its more realistic.

These views are bandied about for a reason....its true. When all the other counties have the same levels of paid staff and an actual CEO then we can look at things differently."
But games development is aspect Monaghan are compensated more then most and it gives them an edge, creating an advantage arguably. Other revenue streams every county has an equal chance of competing in a commercial landscape. Your figures also lack the funding you also forget from the Ulster provincial council.

Think the opposite in fact, the per captia is the only fair way of ensuring a fair distribution of funds, equally without demarcation. Per registered player is nonsense because its developing games for those all ready playing and not attracting those who dont in what is becoming an increasingly diverse society.

I think you fooling yourself if you believe no one in Monghan backroom or administration gets paid. Can you tell us who get paid and what in Dublin GAA and their equivalent in Monghan? - to convince us your not spoofing.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 05/07/2023 18:04:18    2492508

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The RTÉ podcast were complaining about teams playing 3 weekends in a row. It's comical! Complaining about no jeopardy and then complaining of a reward for winning the groups!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7847 - 05/07/2023 19:32:21    2492523

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Does anyone know where to get stats on the All Ireland games? I can find them anywhere on the interweb.

I heard a number of people say Armagh were the better team against Monaghan at the weekend but that is not how I saw the game live or when I watched i afterwards. I though Monaghan dominated and controlled the second half until the black card. Ross Munnelly in his interview on OFB afterwards seemed to be of the same view.

Others like Paddy Andrews and Johny Ward of OTB are saying the opposite and doing so very definitively, arguing that Armagh threw it away etc. To me they seem to be relying on preconceptions and lazy analysis.

Surely a look at total shots should settle the debate? Any idea where to get the full set of stats?

turnip12 (Monaghan) - Posts: 18 - 05/07/2023 21:05:18    2492539

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Replying To Joxer:  "Like I said, it's all relative. The original point that was made, or implied, by somebody was that money equals success. Obviously that's nonsense and that point continues to be disproved time and time by counties investing highly and not progressing beyond AIQFs in some cases. What's the gap between Mayo and Leitrim over that period or Kerry and Waterford or Kildare and Carlow and so on? Almost all counties are prepared professionally and have centres of excellence, or access to them, as well as top level coaching and backroom teams. In football there have been 3 different AI champions in the last 3 years."
A month from now it'll be 3 in the last 11 years.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 05/07/2023 22:56:47    2492548

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Replying To Joxer:  "It's all relative though isn't it? Galway spent more on IC last year than any county, I think it was Mayo the year before. Most IC squads these days prepare like professionals, all have fitness coaches, nutritionists, analysts etc. The combined Munster spend in 2022 was €8.8m Tipp spent €1.8m, Limerick almost €2m, Cork €1.7m, Kerry €1.4m. Are you saying that these aren't professionally prepared counties? You're damn right they are."
There is a big difference between spending and receiving. If your in Dublin and playing in croke park you don't have to spend money on travel or hotels. I think that's obvious. Also why is it when people ask about Dublin and croke park they are called whingers? Many from Dublin say they like to play away but when Donegal objected to the croke park issue during the supper 8s it was the Dublin ceo That was whinging saying "Donegal are mean spirited". Every county deserves an even break but while I do agree Croke park should be used for big games and finals etc I think counties are entitled to neutral or home venue arrangements.While it might not be Dublin's fault the gaa did not give Leinster teams fair play. I 2006 Longford were unlucky to bt Dublin in Pearse PK. After that Dublin did nt play a championship game agsin outside croke park for over 10 yrs. When it happened Laois were the home team but the gaa told Laois that their stadium did nt have enough seats for The Dub season ticket holders so the game would be played in Kilkenny. Laois objected saying Kilkenny is nt their home ground but gaa insisted. Many Laois fans boycotted game due to this. Following year Carlow got home venue v Dubs but we're told No you can't play in Carlow as you have enough seats for Dub season ticket holder but you can play in guess where. Yes Portlaoise!, Yes where Laois could nt play. You could nt make it up. It dies nt end there. A few yrs ago Westmeath were nt allowed to use home pitch v Dublin. cos of floodlights or something to do with sky sports. I fairness even the great James Mccarthy spoke out about it. The gaa has treated Dublin like the favourite child and while not Dublin's faults it is wrong and anyone that points it out is accused of whi going by some posters. Dublin have been a fantastic football team in spite of all this and no one has more admiration for them than I. Also I admire 80 tto 90% of their supporters but facts are facts and posters should nt think the truth is an attack in greatness. In the fullness of time Cluxton Mccarthy Fenton etc will always be remembered as all time great and rightly so.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 06/07/2023 01:06:43    2492556

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Replying To Joxer:  "Like I said, it's all relative. The original point that was made, or implied, by somebody was that money equals success. Obviously that's nonsense and that point continues to be disproved time and time by counties investing highly and not progressing beyond AIQFs in some cases. What's the gap between Mayo and Leitrim over that period or Kerry and Waterford or Kildare and Carlow and so on? Almost all counties are prepared professionally and have centres of excellence, or access to them, as well as top level coaching and backroom teams. In football there have been 3 different AI champions in the last 3 years."
I agree that funding is only a small part of it, but it is a part of it.
Success comes from a combination of factors :
Tradition/general interest in a particular sport, population, demographics, facilities, funding, effort put in at underage level, distance to training, work culture, employment... .
Dublin enjoy the best of the above advantages but I agree that there is a sliding scale and as much as Dublin have advantages over, say Mayo , Mayo in turn have an even bigger advantage over, say, Leitrim.
Although the playing field can not be levelled, that should not stop the GAA from at least trying to help it a bit.
Funding should be skewed towards weaker counties.. I know there is an argument that it should be pro rata to the the playing population / number of clubs in the county , but I think we have to try to incentivise playing for the weaker counties by making the facilities & treatment of players in these counties at least as good ( if not better ) than those in the top counties.
With regard to the inference that Galway spent the most in 2022 ( 1.7m) without reaching 2023 QF, I think its important to put context. Whilst 1.7m sounds like an awful lot ( and it is) its in the ball park of most counties. Munster's total spend on flagship teams was 8.7m ( an average of 1.46m per county) . When you consider that Galway had one team reaching final and one in semi final in 2022 , whilst no Munster county had both teams even reaching the quarter final I think you can conclude that the Galway figure is more in line with others than being an outlier.
And I think you would have to agree that Galway's spend is a contributor to relative success ( a strong emphasis on the word relative) as in recent years they are fairly consistently at the business end of both codes. This year hurlers again in semi. A combination of bizarre results/injuries in the last 2 Sundays of action for the footballers prevented progression to QF , but a Div 1 League final appearance and a Connacht championship title means that it wasn't a disasterous year

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 06/07/2023 09:38:49    2492564

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "There is a big difference between spending and receiving. If your in Dublin and playing in croke park you don't have to spend money on travel or hotels. I think that's obvious. Also why is it when people ask about Dublin and croke park they are called whingers? Many from Dublin say they like to play away but when Donegal objected to the croke park issue during the supper 8s it was the Dublin ceo That was whinging saying "Donegal are mean spirited". Every county deserves an even break but while I do agree Croke park should be used for big games and finals etc I think counties are entitled to neutral or home venue arrangements.While it might not be Dublin's fault the gaa did not give Leinster teams fair play. I 2006 Longford were unlucky to bt Dublin in Pearse PK. After that Dublin did nt play a championship game agsin outside croke park for over 10 yrs. When it happened Laois were the home team but the gaa told Laois that their stadium did nt have enough seats for The Dub season ticket holders so the game would be played in Kilkenny. Laois objected saying Kilkenny is nt their home ground but gaa insisted. Many Laois fans boycotted game due to this. Following year Carlow got home venue v Dubs but we're told No you can't play in Carlow as you have enough seats for Dub season ticket holder but you can play in guess where. Yes Portlaoise!, Yes where Laois could nt play. You could nt make it up. It dies nt end there. A few yrs ago Westmeath were nt allowed to use home pitch v Dublin. cos of floodlights or something to do with sky sports. I fairness even the great James Mccarthy spoke out about it. The gaa has treated Dublin like the favourite child and while not Dublin's faults it is wrong and anyone that points it out is accused of whi going by some posters. Dublin have been a fantastic football team in spite of all this and no one has more admiration for them than I. Also I admire 80 tto 90% of their supporters but facts are facts and posters should nt think the truth is an attack in greatness. In the fullness of time Cluxton Mccarthy Fenton etc will always be remembered as all time great and rightly so."
Travelling expenses is a moot point. How many times does a team have to travel to Croke Park a year? Dublin have travelled all over the country this year to Limerick, Cork, Derry, Laois, Kilkenny. They generally stay in a hotel for big championship games anyway in CP so the whole travel expense thing is a nonsense. Games Development funding is just that and for a population of 1.5m where the DCB is trying to develop games in areas under fierce competition from soccer, rugby and other sports. What is the breakdown per capita anyway? As I keep saying it's all relative. What is Kerry's spend versus Carlow for example? If spending is what it's all about, that was the original point, and Kerry are so poor then why are they AI champions, in a AISF again and favourites? When Dublin matches were drawing crowds of 80,000 to LSFC of course there had to be venue considerations. You can't hold those games at venues with a capacity of 10,000 especially when you're battling to develop the game in the capital against fierce competition. It's no coincidence that Leinster fans have been singing COYBIB in recent years.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 06/07/2023 10:39:19    2492593

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Replying To Galway9801:  "A month from now it'll be 3 in the last 11 years."
Bit like the 70s and 80s so.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 06/07/2023 10:41:56    2492594

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I don't think the Sunday tickets should be the same price as the Saturday tickets. On Saturday they have the Tailteann cup final whereas on Sunday it is the Junior All Ireland which is of zero interest to most people. I don't know why that can even be called an All Ireland when most of the teams are not Irish teams.

PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 222 - 06/07/2023 11:23:25    2492610

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Replying To TheUsername:  "But games development is aspect Monaghan are compensated more then most and it gives them an edge, creating an advantage arguably. Other revenue streams every county has an equal chance of competing in a commercial landscape. Your figures also lack the funding you also forget from the Ulster provincial council.

Think the opposite in fact, the per captia is the only fair way of ensuring a fair distribution of funds, equally without demarcation. Per registered player is nonsense because its developing games for those all ready playing and not attracting those who dont in what is becoming an increasingly diverse society.

I think you fooling yourself if you believe no one in Monghan backroom or administration gets paid. Can you tell us who get paid and what in Dublin GAA and their equivalent in Monghan? - to convince us your not spoofing."
Games development payments....in fact total funds from the GAA are publicly available to all.

Monaghan haven't even received the most money in Ulster 'per capita'.

No serious economic argument is made on a per capita basis when it comes to distribution of wealth (in this case funding for a sporting organisation).

Monaghan GAA does not have a CEO....I don't know if any other county has one.

Do you seriously believe if you have less money you can still have the same infrastructure? I dont dispute each team has experts and those experts are being compensated for their time....I am simply saying Dublin have more and better. Of course they do...Why would you deny it? Its great for Dublin. You should be happy.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 06/07/2023 11:31:54    2492612

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Replying To PattyONeill:  "I don't think the Sunday tickets should be the same price as the Saturday tickets. On Saturday they have the Tailteann cup final whereas on Sunday it is the Junior All Ireland which is of zero interest to most people. I don't know why that can even be called an All Ireland when most of the teams are not Irish teams."
Theres one of them in the Tailteann Cup final too.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 643 - 06/07/2023 11:33:15    2492613

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Replying To Joxer:  "Travelling expenses is a moot point. How many times does a team have to travel to Croke Park a year? Dublin have travelled all over the country this year to Limerick, Cork, Derry, Laois, Kilkenny. They generally stay in a hotel for big championship games anyway in CP so the whole travel expense thing is a nonsense. Games Development funding is just that and for a population of 1.5m where the DCB is trying to develop games in areas under fierce competition from soccer, rugby and other sports. What is the breakdown per capita anyway? As I keep saying it's all relative. What is Kerry's spend versus Carlow for example? If spending is what it's all about, that was the original point, and Kerry are so poor then why are they AI champions, in a AISF again and favourites? When Dublin matches were drawing crowds of 80,000 to LSFC of course there had to be venue considerations. You can't hold those games at venues with a capacity of 10,000 especially when you're battling to develop the game in the capital against fierce competition. It's no coincidence that Leinster fans have been singing COYBIB in recent years."
Dublin have travelled all over during league? So have everyone else Joxer. The fact remains that Kerry Mayo etc gave more travelling. Also Kerry for example had hurlers playing in croke park last year. For you to say travelling does nt matter is ridiculous. Example Dublin played both leinster semi final and final in croker league final in croker and all ireland quarter final on croker semi and final of they get there. That's 6 big games with little or no travel. Kerry travelled for their munster final and have to travel for league finals and big championship games. How you can compare is crazy. That's why Galways spend is so big. Maybe you think we all get free diesel and free hotels.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 06/07/2023 12:30:03    2492635

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Replying To Joxer:  "Travelling expenses is a moot point. How many times does a team have to travel to Croke Park a year? Dublin have travelled all over the country this year to Limerick, Cork, Derry, Laois, Kilkenny. They generally stay in a hotel for big championship games anyway in CP so the whole travel expense thing is a nonsense. Games Development funding is just that and for a population of 1.5m where the DCB is trying to develop games in areas under fierce competition from soccer, rugby and other sports. What is the breakdown per capita anyway? As I keep saying it's all relative. What is Kerry's spend versus Carlow for example? If spending is what it's all about, that was the original point, and Kerry are so poor then why are they AI champions, in a AISF again and favourites? When Dublin matches were drawing crowds of 80,000 to LSFC of course there had to be venue considerations. You can't hold those games at venues with a capacity of 10,000 especially when you're battling to develop the game in the capital against fierce competition. It's no coincidence that Leinster fans have been singing COYBIB in recent years."
Well if the Dublin team stay in hotels before games in croke park that's a new one Ó have nt heard of and I've heard the Brogans say on a few occasions it's great to be able to sleep in your own bed before big games in croke park. Now it seems to me you exaggerate a little Joxer. Example who said Kerry were poor? Kerry are well looked after by Kerry group (we don't get as much of the gaa) but our sponser is great like Dublin's. Also of course Croke park us needed for big capacity games. All people want is fair play. I have no problem with All ireland semis and finals being played in croke park. I have no problem with Dublin playing their home games there but I do have a problem with them playing neutral games there like the super 8s farce.The world over in every sport home venue is an advantage for numerous reasons.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 06/07/2023 13:11:47    2492649

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Replying To Gator:  "Games development payments....in fact total funds from the GAA are publicly available to all.

Monaghan haven't even received the most money in Ulster 'per capita'.

No serious economic argument is made on a per capita basis when it comes to distribution of wealth (in this case funding for a sporting organisation).

Monaghan GAA does not have a CEO....I don't know if any other county has one.

Do you seriously believe if you have less money you can still have the same infrastructure? I dont dispute each team has experts and those experts are being compensated for their time....I am simply saying Dublin have more and better. Of course they do...Why would you deny it? Its great for Dublin. You should be happy."
Yes have been for years, delighted you've found out. So you need to add your provincial grant to your games development grant to get your total games development sum for your games development

That's a silly thing to say, absolutely no economic argument/decision in the world is made on the basis on population per captia - that's quite mad, in fact very much the opposite is true. ;D

You are making irrelevant points now and waffling - i didn't ask you about Ulster per capita.

I also didn't ask you if Monghan had a CEO.

I said answer the questions i posed comparatively and evidentially to prove your point and that your your not spoofing?

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/07/2023 13:51:53    2492659

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