National Forum

Kerry Vs Tyrone

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Replying To endgame:  "Don't think Mayo have better footballers coming through. Certainly Galway and Roscommon have been as good as Mayo at underage over the last few years. Best of luck to Mayo in 2 weeks. James Horan has been a phenomenal Manager for Mayo. Six Connacht titles in seven seasons and four All Ireland Final appearances. He may well bridge the 70 year gap in 2 weeks time."
I read your county forums and I admire Roscommons obsession with football. Bar my own county Roscommon are football crazy. The way ye analyse every underage games is unreal but many of your county men seems to think underage titles guarantee senior success "the best is yet to come"

Mayos underage success has not been as proficient in recent years but it's all about player development and picking players of not only footballing ability but right mental attitude to be able live the "lifestyle" of playing senior football. Mayo now have a very good academy in place with very able coaches nurturing that talent. In knockout underage football anything can happen on the day but it's about picking those 2 or 3 ballers every year and preparing the me for the step up to senior.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11446 - 29/08/2021 22:23:21    2376193

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Replying To endgame:  "Do you think Mayo would be in the All Ireland Final for the second year in a row, having lost so many established players, if Padraig Joyce or Anthony Cunningham was the Mayo Manager.? I don't."
Mayo have got to the latter stages of championship consistently under three different management teams over the past 10 years. While management arguably the most important cog in the wheel…without the players you won't go anywhere.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11446 - 29/08/2021 22:27:48    2376194

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Mayo have got to the latter stages of championship consistently under three different management teams over the past 10 years. While management arguably the most important cog in the wheel…without the players you won't go anywhere."
A lot of Mayo's best players under the other previous Managements are retired and no longer available for selection.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2312 - 29/08/2021 22:44:33    2376204

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Replying To nicko94:  "The gap between being a good intercounty footballer at minor or U20 -> senior intercounty is absolutely massive. Years of conditioning and commitment in-between to play at the very top which the vast vast majority of players will never commit to or aren't able for. Its been shown time and time again, underage success doesn't equate to senior success...look at all those successful Kerry teams over the last decade...look at Dublin's relative lack of underage success yet their sheer dominance at Senior.

Our lack of success at underage since Diarmuid O'Conner/Conroy's minor team is more than made up for the quality of the senior setup, same with Dublin.

'Don't think Mayo have better footballers coming through' ..........well how did we have such a decent team in the 2000s, a fantastic team last decade that have multiple Connaught's and close finals and now a team in a fantastic position going into the new decade? Your statement makes absolutely zero sense...

Speaking of the players on the 3 Connaught teams in question ...how many of the Roscommon players would actually get on the current Mayo team who started against Dublin? I'd have probably Enda and an on-form Cox at a push but that's about it at the moment.. Galway have about 3 maybe 4 players currently i'd like on our team."
Yes but Galway have 6 All-Irelands since ye last won one.

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 295 - 29/08/2021 23:00:16    2376210

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Replying To yew_tree:  "I read your county forums and I admire Roscommons obsession with football. Bar my own county Roscommon are football crazy. The way ye analyse every underage games is unreal but many of your county men seems to think underage titles guarantee senior success "the best is yet to come"

Mayos underage success has not been as proficient in recent years but it's all about player development and picking players of not only footballing ability but right mental attitude to be able live the "lifestyle" of playing senior football. Mayo now have a very good academy in place with very able coaches nurturing that talent. In knockout underage football anything can happen on the day but it's about picking those 2 or 3 ballers every year and preparing the me for the step up to senior."
I agree winning a minor, U20 for bigger counties is not so much important as throwing up a percentage of new talent. You can see that clearly with top 4/5 counties.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4948 - 29/08/2021 23:53:41    2376224

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Replying To Canuck:  "From a neutral point of views it was disgusting to see Spillane allowed dominate the conversation unfairly. Of course Kerry have the name of cute hoars. Why ? Because they earned it. We know all about it when the voted against us playing are hurling games in Nowlan Park when they had no skin in the game, because they got paid off in kind for it."
I totally agree Cantwell gave him a free rein, horrible to listen to him spitting bile and throwing out allegations and being alliwed do it. Poor on part of RTE.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4948 - 29/08/2021 23:57:53    2376226

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Why isn't more made of Niall Morgan's free from the halfway line, 1 of the best frees I have seen taken in Gaelic football."
It was a phenomenal kick and a vitally important one too. The only free that I can ever recall being scored from a comparable distance is Derek Duggan's last gasp equalizer for Roscommon in the 1991 drawn Connacht final. I think Duggan's free was a few yards closer to the goal but it was against the wind! He was a 19 year old playing his first season at senior and showed incredible composure to level the match with the last kick of the game.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 1017 - 30/08/2021 04:39:26    2376244

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Well done Tyrone on reaching the final.

giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1258 - 30/08/2021 07:06:58    2376248

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Well done Tyrone. Tremendous win, now go on and finish the job.

They out "cute hoored" Kerry with their antics. Hats off.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 30/08/2021 10:07:10    2376278

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Replying To arock:  "I totally agree Cantwell gave him a free rein, horrible to listen to him spitting bile and throwing out allegations and being alliwed do it. Poor on part of RTE."
Spillane did lose the plot, especially with his insinuations about Tyrone gaming the Covid thing,

On other hand, i thought it was a low enough thing by Cantwell - with big smile on her - to ambush Pat with the "puke football" thing.

That was nearly 20 years ago! He's apologised numerous times. How many of us would like stupid things we said in the heat of the moment to be thrown in our faces after all that time, and ad nauseum?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3331 - 30/08/2021 10:19:15    2376285

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Well done to our neighbours on a fantastic win at the weekend. I always gave them a fighting chance because Tyrone have good old school defenders and a great system that they are all well coached in. I was a bit surprised at Kerry's approach though. It was obvious that running the ball into contact wasn't working but they seemed hell bent on persisting with it looking for a killer goal chance.

Morgan's free was something else. An absolutely crazy distance out but he had plenty to spare with it as well. He and his outfield colleagues really would need to reassess the kickout strategy though for the final.

It's great to have a novel final to look forward to. It is very difficult to call. I'd say the excitement in both counties over the next couple of weeks will be unreal.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9566 - 30/08/2021 10:34:50    2376293

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "
Replying To HokeyPokey:  "There's plenty of the sour grapes from some Kerry supporters and former players etc. It's crazy how it all started. An intense performance by a great and young team in 2003 dominated and beat a complacent Kerry team. We had been close to All-Irelands and it was our first, but they wanted to diminish that. Kerry have 37 All-Irelands, they should be more magnanimous. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of eejit Tyrone supporters too, but I don't think there was the same level of sour grapes from any Tyrone media or commentator after the many times Kerry have beaten us in the championship since 2008. I think some of Tyrone's reaction to Kerry comes from being treated very condescendingly and expected to koktow to the 'aristocratcs'. I think Spillane in the 80s said Tyrone had loads of good looking women and maybe if we sent some down to Kerry to distract them we would have a better chance of winning the AI. Aswell, every time Tyrone have beaten Kerry they have been wrote off by the media and expected to be beaten by Kerry's individual brilliance. In my opinion the Tyrone team that lined out in 2005 had better individual players than Kerry.

I think this could be the start of another great rivalry between the teams and it was definitely one of the sweetest wins and the most sweet since 2008!"
First of all Hokey congrats on yere deserved win yesterday but I certainly don't agree at all with your post. Maybe Kerry did nt respect Tyrone before 03 but they certainly did afterwards and still do. If you read the Kerry forum last week many were worried about Tyrone. Kerry pundits including the Ó Sé s and Donaghy all were very wary of Tyrone. The one pundit that does nt show respect is Spillane
I agree with that but believe you me not many in Kerry agree with Pat. Spillane was a fantastic footballer but can be a condescending pundit even towards his own. If Spillane tips a team be worried. Don't judge all Kerry people on Pat. Every county has those sorts. Remember it was Kerry goodwill that gave Tyrone a chance to play in the semi final and although we were beaten any Kerry fan I spoke with yesterday all agreed there were no regrets and we d do the same again
I know we all like to stand up for our own but I can't change anyone s mind. I'm just trying to give you perspective. Anyway enough said so best of luck in the final."
In fairness, I did say some supporters. I have seen many very mean spirits reactions online (though naturally not a good barometer). Jibes about the covid situation. There was even someone saying Morgan wasn't a sporting because he apparently injured Clifford.

There was mostly a lot saying Tyrone were cynical and dirty, the same usual *****. I have watched the match back and while Tyrone were physical, it (to me) was a mostly clean match. Kerry might have had one or two more frees, but I think they also ​got as many if not more which were generous. I think Kerry have always given as good as they have gotten and transgressed for an edge as much as Tyrone over the years.

A lot of the narratives stem from 2003. Since then, there has (to me) been an impulse to always lazily jump to tar Tyrone as if they are the only team to do naughty things or to go way over the top a la Brolly (even McManus said he would have done the same as Cavanagh). Though it has definitely helped motivate Tyrone teams over the years.

Anyway, it has been a long 13 years since 2008. We won the 3 meetings in the 00s, Kerry won them in the 10s. Hoping we win them all in the 2020s and we have first blood for team of the decade! I'm looking forward to the reigniting of the rivalry.

HokeyPokey (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 30/08/2021 11:00:40    2376310

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Does anyone know what % of their own kick-outs did Tyrone win primary possession from?

Or if anyone has a link to a page to find these stats - thanks

Very enjoyable game Saturday. Any talk of Tyrone cynicism is BS and talk that they were just more hungry than Kerry is belittling to the quality Tyrone have. Some seriously talented players on that team.

Hopefully the final will be a great match, we have been waiting a few years to get a final without Dublin. And by my record it is only the 2nd Ulster v Connacht AI since 1948 but the 2nd in 9 years... hopefully a sign of things to come.

Cbar (Mayo) - Posts: 335 - 30/08/2021 11:50:07    2376332

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What an incredible game on Saturday, interesting to know when the last time both semi finals finished a draw in normal time(no Extra time in the normal circumstances).

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1658 - 30/08/2021 11:57:43    2376337

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Replying To PK57:  "What an incredible game on Saturday, interesting to know when the last time both semi finals finished a draw in normal time(no Extra time in the normal circumstances)."
it happened in 1985 but not sure if it has happened since.

Mayo v Dublin and Kerry v Monaghan. Of course the final was Dublin v Kerry

Cbar (Mayo) - Posts: 335 - 30/08/2021 12:11:08    2376344

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Replying To endgame:  "A lot of Mayo's best players under the other previous Managements are retired and no longer available for selection."
Which makes back to back final appearances all the more remarkable considering we were supposed to be in transition do t you think? After we lost to Kildare in 2018 and Dublin in the 2019 semi final the obituaries were being read for us by many.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11446 - 30/08/2021 12:52:54    2376369

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Replying To HokeyPokey:  "First of all Hokey congrats on yere deserved win yesterday but I certainly don't agree at all with your post. Maybe Kerry did nt respect Tyrone before 03 but they certainly did afterwards and still do. If you read the Kerry forum last week many were worried about Tyrone. Kerry pundits including the Ó Sé s and Donaghy all were very wary of Tyrone. The one pundit that does nt show respect is Spillane
I agree with that but believe you me not many in Kerry agree with Pat. Spillane was a fantastic footballer but can be a condescending pundit even towards his own. If Spillane tips a team be worried. Don't judge all Kerry people on Pat. Every county has those sorts. Remember it was Kerry goodwill that gave Tyrone a chance to play in the semi final and although we were beaten any Kerry fan I spoke with yesterday all agreed there were no regrets and we d do the same again
I know we all like to stand up for our own but I can't change anyone s mind. I'm just trying to give you perspective. Anyway enough said so best of luck in the final."
In fairness, I did say some supporters. I have seen many very mean spirits reactions online (though naturally not a good barometer). Jibes about the covid situation. There was even someone saying Morgan wasn't a sporting because he apparently injured Clifford.

There was mostly a lot saying Tyrone were cynical and dirty, the same usual *****. I have watched the match back and while Tyrone were physical, it (to me) was a mostly clean match. Kerry might have had one or two more frees, but I think they also ​got as many if not more which were generous. I think Kerry have always given as good as they have gotten and transgressed for an edge as much as Tyrone over the years.

A lot of the narratives stem from 2003. Since then, there has (to me) been an impulse to always lazily jump to tar Tyrone as if they are the only team to do naughty things or to go way over the top a la Brolly (even McManus said he would have done the same as Cavanagh). Though it has definitely helped motivate Tyrone teams over the years.

Anyway, it has been a long 13 years since 2008. We won the 3 meetings in the 00s, Kerry won them in the 10s. Hoping we win them all in the 2020s and we have first blood for team of the decade! I'm looking forward to the reigniting of the rivalry."]You did say "some" but continued going on about sour grapes etc but continued on with the same speal. On this forum one poster said Morgan was trying to hurt Clifford and it was a Dublin poster but he was joking with a smiley. I'm not on social media so I don't know what alot if idiots say but all I see in on this forum newspapers TV and chatting to people and any Kerry people I've spoken too while disappointed are congratulating Tyrone but you have your opinion.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 30/08/2021 13:10:00    2376381

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "In fairness, I did say some supporters. I have seen many very mean spirits reactions online (though naturally not a good barometer). Jibes about the covid situation. There was even someone saying Morgan wasn't a sporting because he apparently injured Clifford.

There was mostly a lot saying Tyrone were cynical and dirty, the same usual *****. I have watched the match back and while Tyrone were physical, it (to me) was a mostly clean match. Kerry might have had one or two more frees, but I think they also ​got as many if not more which were generous. I think Kerry have always given as good as they have gotten and transgressed for an edge as much as Tyrone over the years.

A lot of the narratives stem from 2003. Since then, there has (to me) been an impulse to always lazily jump to tar Tyrone as if they are the only team to do naughty things or to go way over the top a la Brolly (even McManus said he would have done the same as Cavanagh). Though it has definitely helped motivate Tyrone teams over the years.

Anyway, it has been a long 13 years since 2008. We won the 3 meetings in the 00s, Kerry won them in the 10s. Hoping we win them all in the 2020s and we have first blood for team of the decade! I'm looking forward to the reigniting of the rivalry."
You did say "some" but continued going on about sour grapes etc but continued on with the same speal. On this forum one poster said Morgan was trying to hurt Clifford and it was a Dublin poster but he was joking with a smiley. I'm not on social media so I don't know what alot if idiots say but all I see in on this forum newspapers TV and chatting to people and any Kerry people I've spoken too while disappointed are congratulating Tyrone but you have your opinion."]With hindsight, hammering Tyrone in the league did not help Kerry at all - fed into a national narrative (which in fairness plenty in Tyrone believed in as well) that Tyrone were there just as a sparring partner to warm Kerry up for the final. That kind of narrative gets into lads' heads, no matter how much they try to block it out.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 30/08/2021 13:16:46    2376389

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Two of probably the most vilified teams outside of Dublin.
Mods likely to be weak again regards the movement of the thread, so i hope the teams supporters stay strong ,ignore the noise from jealous users from various counties on and enjoy the build up.

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 383 - 30/08/2021 13:23:08    2376393

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Replying To midlands:  "Some people, including at least one ex-Kerry player, are suggesting that Kerry were rusty after a five week lay-off. By my calculation, Tyrone had a four week lay-off. Is there some scientific evidence indicating that four weeks is OK, but five weeks is too much?"
kerry had 5 weeks with a full squad to complete any training they wanted. Tyrone had 5 days... but the narrative in all the gaa podcasts is that 5 weeks prep hindered kerry.

I hope to god Dublin and kerry dont win an AI for 10 years, bring on Cork/Galway/Roscommon/Donegal/Meath (nah not meath)/Derry/Armagh and of course Mayo and Tyrone... lets change the narrative.

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 88 - 30/08/2021 14:36:54    2376431

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