National Forum

2021 Rankings So Far

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Dublin

Kerry Mayo

Tyrone Monaghan

Donegal Armagh Galway

Kildare Meath Cork Derry Roscommon Westmeath
Down Clare

Kildare have done well to get to Division 1 but they need to compete there or they go back into the pack. Armagh have consolidated their status and were pipped by a consistent Monaghan. Still can't see beyond Mayo or Kerry to anyone who would challenge the Dubs.

jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 239 - 22/07/2021 12:26:44    2362805

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@kiloughter you still lost said relegation play off and were beaten resoundingly by Kerry by 22 points and by 4 points at home to Dublin. Galway are consistent under achievers in football and talk of them being a top side is wide of the mark. The last championship victories of note were in 2018. The last time you beat a top 6 side was 2018 in championship football. That's living off reputation.

That's not to say they won't win this weekend and then you might have something to say yes they are worthy. But Galway like Meath, Kildare, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are nothing more than yo yo teams who are consistent in their inconsistencies.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1274 - 22/07/2021 12:56:05    2362825

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Replying To conman1282:  "
Replying To MayoDan:  "[quote=conman1282:  "[quote=supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
based off the teams left:

1) Dublin - all this talk about decline, something tells me a hiding is coming, they're middle spine is still unbelievable
2) Kerry - awesome forward line, no doubt best in Ireland, midfield back they are improving
3) Mayo - I know its weak opposition but you have to beat the teams in front of you. serious depth and competition
4) Tyrone - Just slightly ahead of Monaghan only because of depth on the bench. Very close though easily swap
5) Monaghan - as Above
6) Kildare - Showing well upfront, have some excellent forwards
7) Galway - Good going forward, defensively just ok
8) Cork - did beat a limerick team who won well the first day so improved from last year"
I've seen a lot of people say Kerry have a better forward line than Dublin. That is not the case imo. Once Dublin get their defensive injuries cleared up, this will probably be their forward line:

Scully Kilkenny Howard
Rock Con Costello/Small

How many Kerry players would break into that team? Clifford definitely instead of Costello/Small but after that? Maybe Sean O'Shea but nobody else."]this is the rankings based off the year to date."]Even just going on this year, Clifford and Sean O'Shea are the only forwards that would make the Dublin team.

So I don't know how you can say Kerry have the best forward line.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 22/07/2021 13:43:50    2362848

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Replying To MayoDan:  "
Replying To conman1282:  "[quote=MayoDan:  "[quote=conman1282:  "[quote=supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
based off the teams left:

1) Dublin - all this talk about decline, something tells me a hiding is coming, they're middle spine is still unbelievable
2) Kerry - awesome forward line, no doubt best in Ireland, midfield back they are improving
3) Mayo - I know its weak opposition but you have to beat the teams in front of you. serious depth and competition
4) Tyrone - Just slightly ahead of Monaghan only because of depth on the bench. Very close though easily swap
5) Monaghan - as Above
6) Kildare - Showing well upfront, have some excellent forwards
7) Galway - Good going forward, defensively just ok
8) Cork - did beat a limerick team who won well the first day so improved from last year"
I've seen a lot of people say Kerry have a better forward line than Dublin. That is not the case imo. Once Dublin get their defensive injuries cleared up, this will probably be their forward line:

Scully Kilkenny Howard
Rock Con Costello/Small

How many Kerry players would break into that team? Clifford definitely instead of Costello/Small but after that? Maybe Sean O'Shea but nobody else."]this is the rankings based off the year to date."]Even just going on this year, Clifford and Sean O'Shea are the only forwards that would make the Dublin team.

So I don't know how you can say Kerry have the best forward line."]its just my opinion Dan, I dont think Dublins forwards are firing on all cylinders YET, Kerrys forwards have scored more and in my opinion are more dangerous up to this point... Note I still put Dublin on top as their central spine is still by far the best in the country..

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 84 - 22/07/2021 15:09:38    2362880

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Replying To brian:  "@kiloughter you still lost said relegation play off and were beaten resoundingly by Kerry by 22 points and by 4 points at home to Dublin. Galway are consistent under achievers in football and talk of them being a top side is wide of the mark. The last championship victories of note were in 2018. The last time you beat a top 6 side was 2018 in championship football. That's living off reputation.

That's not to say they won't win this weekend and then you might have something to say yes they are worthy. But Galway like Meath, Kildare, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are nothing more than yo yo teams who are consistent in their inconsistencies."
In fairness not sure who is saying we are a top side but have not being as yoyo as some of the other teams you mentioned in terms of between the divisions and have been Div1 for a few years until now. Depends on what one expects from various counties as i suspect we get a lot of heat as people outside of Galway expect more from us. Maybe it is because we have had more underage success relatively speaking than your list although underage success is no real indicator.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1780 - 22/07/2021 15:28:49    2362890

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Replying To kiloughter:  "In fairness not sure who is saying we are a top side but have not being as yoyo as some of the other teams you mentioned in terms of between the divisions and have been Div1 for a few years until now. Depends on what one expects from various counties as i suspect we get a lot of heat as people outside of Galway expect more from us. Maybe it is because we have had more underage success relatively speaking than your list although underage success is no real indicator."
Its because Galway have a lot of talented players, but just haven't been able to get the blend right and seem far too slow to react on the sideline last Sunday.

First half you were all over Mayo, but all it took in the 2nd half was for Mayo to mark Walsh, Conroy and Cooke (I think), and the wheels feel off. This should have been expected/anticipated.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 653 - 27/07/2021 13:23:23    2364694

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Replying To kiloughter:  "In fairness not sure who is saying we are a top side but have not being as yoyo as some of the other teams you mentioned in terms of between the divisions and have been Div1 for a few years until now. Depends on what one expects from various counties as i suspect we get a lot of heat as people outside of Galway expect more from us. Maybe it is because we have had more underage success relatively speaking than your list although underage success is no real indicator."
Kiloughter, this was the point i was replying to you on, and sorry if i misrepresented you but that to me is claiming you're a top side

I don't think there is a whole pile of difference between us Donegal, Monaghan, Kildare and Armagh and would see that grouping plus Mayo and Tyrone as next to Dublin and Kerry.

Galway are not at top side and are not in the same grouping as Donegal, Monaghan, Mayo or Tyrone. You're in a group with Kildare, Armagh, Meath, Derry, Cork, Roscommon and Clare trying to bridge the gap to the top 6 teams. For a county with a lot of recent underage success and a club team with multiple all ireland titles in Corofin that's patently not good enough return. Galway have underachieved for years. Given the above factors Galway should be a top side. Now I'm not having a shot at Galway and trying to represent it as anything else. I'm not sure what's happening within Galway football that those successes aren't translating to senior and it's not to say they won't happen in future periods either.

The second half on Sunday showed as much as anything why Galway at present aren't one of those top sides. 3 pointed free's, 25 minutes without a score and no score from play. The teams in that tier i would place Galway in are liable to have half's or periods like that of not keeping the score board ticking over which is what the top 6 sides do. God knows it frustrates the heck out of me about Meath not keeping that scoreboard ticking over.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1274 - 27/07/2021 15:34:40    2364761

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Replying To Commodore:  "Its because Galway have a lot of talented players, but just haven't been able to get the blend right and seem far too slow to react on the sideline last Sunday.

First half you were all over Mayo, but all it took in the 2nd half was for Mayo to mark Walsh, Conroy and Cooke (I think), and the wheels feel off. This should have been expected/anticipated."
Mayo didn't play in the first half. The attack in the final 3rd broke down with lateral, slow passing. That was corrected in the 2nd half, two Mcloughalins on, fast, direct football with runners off the shoulder. Mayo ran over Galway.

I think loads of counties of talent. Galway have talent but how talented are they? We keep getting told they still have better forwards than us even at our peak a few years ago....they didn't score from play in the second half.

They have "nice" skillful players who will kill you if you let them. But at dog eat dog at the highest level they don't se to have that ruthless and nasty streak.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10796 - 27/07/2021 18:14:37    2364826

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Replying To conman1282:  "
Replying To MayoDan:  "[quote=conman1282:  "[quote=MayoDan:  "[quote=conman1282:  "[quote=supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
based off the teams left:

1) Dublin - all this talk about decline, something tells me a hiding is coming, they're middle spine is still unbelievable
2) Kerry - awesome forward line, no doubt best in Ireland, midfield back they are improving
3) Mayo - I know its weak opposition but you have to beat the teams in front of you. serious depth and competition
4) Tyrone - Just slightly ahead of Monaghan only because of depth on the bench. Very close though easily swap
5) Monaghan - as Above
6) Kildare - Showing well upfront, have some excellent forwards
7) Galway - Good going forward, defensively just ok
8) Cork - did beat a limerick team who won well the first day so improved from last year"
I've seen a lot of people say Kerry have a better forward line than Dublin. That is not the case imo. Once Dublin get their defensive injuries cleared up, this will probably be their forward line:

Scully Kilkenny Howard
Rock Con Costello/Small

How many Kerry players would break into that team? Clifford definitely instead of Costello/Small but after that? Maybe Sean O'Shea but nobody else."]this is the rankings based off the year to date."]Even just going on this year, Clifford and Sean O'Shea are the only forwards that would make the Dublin team.

So I don't know how you can say Kerry have the best forward line."]its just my opinion Dan, I dont think Dublins forwards are firing on all cylinders YET, Kerrys forwards have scored more and in my opinion are more dangerous up to this point... Note I still put Dublin on top as their central spine is still by far the best in the country.."]1 Dublin Rightly deserve the No. 1 spot self-explanatory.

2. Mayo Until their season is over Mayo rightly deserve the No 2 spot.

3. Kerry Just about deserve the No. 3 spot.

4. Monaghan. (For the moment)

5. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0- 06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.

6. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,

Process of elimination, en route to the final.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2442 - 27/07/2021 19:35:08    2364850

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How people rank Mayo above Kerry in laughable. They rank Kildare well up their list by putting forward the argument that they beat an excellent Westmeath team. They should sit down this weekend and watch the football closely.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 834 - 27/07/2021 20:47:42    2364873

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Replying To Saynothing:  "How people rank Mayo above Kerry in laughable. They rank Kildare well up their list by putting forward the argument that they beat an excellent Westmeath team. They should sit down this weekend and watch the football closely."
You will see whoever qualifies next Sunday to play Mayo, there won't be any more than the kick of a ball between them in the semi final.. You will also see who ever qualifies next Saturday to play Kerry there won't be a kick of a ball between them either in the other semi final.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2442 - 27/07/2021 22:49:40    2364918

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supersub are you ranking based on who's left. That's a silly way to go about things and not really ranking teams at all, its saying here's who's left and they're the best..

Are Kildare any better than Galway or Cork (other provincial finalists). I would say they'd break even
Would Kildare beat Monaghan or Tyrone? Nope not on current form
Are Kildare any better than Meath, Roscommon, Clare (who beat them in St Conleths Park), Derry or Armagh. I would argue they're of a very similar standard
Are Kildare better than Donegal, not even close. Donegal would run over them

You're ranking Kildare above Tyrone - Tyrone who got to a division 1 semi final, dismantled and beat the defending Ulster champions and a division one team and will play another in the final. Tyrone are playing a far higher standard of football than Kildare and ranked below them. Come off it. Yes they got beat out the gates v Kerry but they're under new management. Lets not forget Meath beat Kildare out the gates last year in the championship.

Kildare have played Offaly (Div 3) and Westmeath (Div 2) to get to a Leinster final. They've played no one of a better standard than them.

Kildare are 6th of the teams left and trying to argue it any other way is laughable.

If you're going to rank teams at least show some consistency, use the league and championship and last years championship as a consistent basis.

Look at Tipp and Cavan, both dropped to division 4 this year and exited the championship with a whimper but by the logic you apply they were top 4 teams last year.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1274 - 28/07/2021 10:21:08    2364983

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Replying To brian:  "supersub are you ranking based on who's left. That's a silly way to go about things and not really ranking teams at all, its saying here's who's left and they're the best..

Are Kildare any better than Galway or Cork (other provincial finalists). I would say they'd break even
Would Kildare beat Monaghan or Tyrone? Nope not on current form
Are Kildare any better than Meath, Roscommon, Clare (who beat them in St Conleths Park), Derry or Armagh. I would argue they're of a very similar standard
Are Kildare better than Donegal, not even close. Donegal would run over them

You're ranking Kildare above Tyrone - Tyrone who got to a division 1 semi final, dismantled and beat the defending Ulster champions and a division one team and will play another in the final. Tyrone are playing a far higher standard of football than Kildare and ranked below them. Come off it. Yes they got beat out the gates v Kerry but they're under new management. Lets not forget Meath beat Kildare out the gates last year in the championship.

Kildare have played Offaly (Div 3) and Westmeath (Div 2) to get to a Leinster final. They've played no one of a better standard than them.

Kildare are 6th of the teams left and trying to argue it any other way is laughable.

If you're going to rank teams at least show some consistency, use the league and championship and last years championship as a consistent basis.

Look at Tipp and Cavan, both dropped to division 4 this year and exited the championship with a whimper but by the logic you apply they were top 4 teams last year."
Logical post. Totally agree.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1015 - 28/07/2021 10:54:48    2364998

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Replying To brian:  "supersub are you ranking based on who's left. That's a silly way to go about things and not really ranking teams at all, its saying here's who's left and they're the best..

Are Kildare any better than Galway or Cork (other provincial finalists). I would say they'd break even
Would Kildare beat Monaghan or Tyrone? Nope not on current form
Are Kildare any better than Meath, Roscommon, Clare (who beat them in St Conleths Park), Derry or Armagh. I would argue they're of a very similar standard
Are Kildare better than Donegal, not even close. Donegal would run over them

You're ranking Kildare above Tyrone - Tyrone who got to a division 1 semi final, dismantled and beat the defending Ulster champions and a division one team and will play another in the final. Tyrone are playing a far higher standard of football than Kildare and ranked below them. Come off it. Yes they got beat out the gates v Kerry but they're under new management. Lets not forget Meath beat Kildare out the gates last year in the championship.

Kildare have played Offaly (Div 3) and Westmeath (Div 2) to get to a Leinster final. They've played no one of a better standard than them.

Kildare are 6th of the teams left and trying to argue it any other way is laughable.

If you're going to rank teams at least show some consistency, use the league and championship and last years championship as a consistent basis.

Look at Tipp and Cavan, both dropped to division 4 this year and exited the championship with a whimper but by the logic you apply they were top 4 teams last year."
Kildare are a top 12 top 10 team at most. I think Meath are better them then are seemed to unperform in the league play off game in Newbridge. The four Division 1 Ulster teams are better then them, Dublin obviously, Kerry and Mayo Kildare would all struggle to get within 10 points of these teams. The problem I think with Kildare and Kildare fans is that they actually think that they are better then they, I know myself from a Clare point of view every time we have played them we have been more then a match for them and beat them on three occasions in the last 5 years.

But we in Clare are constantly underhyped and underrated, while the opposite is true of Kildare would are often overhyped. Once upon a time I didn't mind Kildare until there recently when Johnny Doyle was talking on the GAA hour in after Clare beat them are he was very bitter over the loss to Clare. He was saying stuff like that Clare are a hurling county which is false, it's a Half an half county, and because he considered them this that Kildare should be beating them. Talk about arrogance from a county that have not achieved that much.

CartaDubh (Clare) - Posts: 25 - 28/07/2021 10:56:45    2365000

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Replying To supersub15:  "You will see whoever qualifies next Sunday to play Mayo, there won't be any more than the kick of a ball between them in the semi final.. You will also see who ever qualifies next Saturday to play Kerry there won't be a kick of a ball between them either in the other semi final."
We'll see. You have Mayo without Cillian O Connor ranked above Kerry and you say Kerry " just about deserve to be no. 3." Yeah right !!!

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5596 - 28/07/2021 11:20:40    2365009

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Replying To Saynothing:  "How people rank Mayo above Kerry in laughable. They rank Kildare well up their list by putting forward the argument that they beat an excellent Westmeath team. They should sit down this weekend and watch the football closely."
Obviously mine is not the preferred way to present the teams on paper, so I've come up with the idea of presenting the teams alphabetically and I think this is reasonable enough.

(D) - Dublin.
(K) - Kerry.
(K) - Kildare.
(M) - Mayo.
(M) - Monaghan.
(T) - Tyrone

Kerry, Mayo, Monaghan, and Tyrone are strong contenders for relieving Dublin of the title, however should Kildare beat Dublin in the LSF final they will be even stronger contenders but alphabetically they will still be below Kerry.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2442 - 28/07/2021 11:36:14    2365017

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Replying To supersub15:  "Obviously mine is not the preferred way to present the teams on paper, so I've come up with the idea of presenting the teams alphabetically and I think this is reasonable enough.

(D) - Dublin.
(K) - Kerry.
(K) - Kildare.
(M) - Mayo.
(M) - Monaghan.
(T) - Tyrone

Kerry, Mayo, Monaghan, and Tyrone are strong contenders for relieving Dublin of the title, however should Kildare beat Dublin in the LSF final they will be even stronger contenders but alphabetically they will still be below Kerry."
What are you on about?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 834 - 28/07/2021 11:57:54    2365021

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Replying To Saynothing:  "How people rank Mayo above Kerry in laughable. They rank Kildare well up their list by putting forward the argument that they beat an excellent Westmeath team. They should sit down this weekend and watch the football closely."
Mayo have the strength, fitness and physicality to match up well with Dublin if the Dubs don't suddenly improve their form it could well be a Kerry v Mayo final.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 2879 - 28/07/2021 12:04:11    2365025

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Replying To The_analyser:  "Mayo have the strength, fitness and physicality to match up well with Dublin if the Dubs don't suddenly improve their form it could well be a Kerry v Mayo final."
Aye, Dubs would have to be poor to set up an upset.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 834 - 28/07/2021 14:03:52    2365089

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1. Dublin. Automatically
2. Mayo. First to qualified for a semi final spot.
3. Kerry next to qualify for a semi.
4. Tyrone next to qualify for a semi.
5. Kildare Kildare v Dublin tomorrow for the last semi final spot.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2442 - 31/07/2021 18:46:26    2366184

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