National Forum

2021 Rankings So Far

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Replying To Jonnycee:  "This year sofar ....
1 Kerry. Champions in the making.
2. Dublin. Slight decline under dessie Farrell so far. Big 18 months for him as their coach.
3. Tyrone. Still a distance off the first 2 but improving.
4. Mayo. Still to be properly road tested this year but making the right shapes.
5. Donegal. Bonner has run our if Ideas and has run out of road. This team needs a change.
6. Monaghan. Improving fast but porous at the back.
Not much between 3 and 6.

The rest are only Tailteann Cup team. No consistency not improving and all playing negative muck."
Some really good points in there. Fair play Jonnycee

Interesting point on Donegal. Would Donegal posters agree with that? Is bonner at the end of the road. Time seems to be rapidly catching up to Michael Murphy too. Neil McGee might not have much left either. I think they still have a very good panel and are top 6 without doubt but is it time for a new voice?

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1274 - 20/07/2021 10:20:19    2362033

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Rankings are pointless from my perspective. I want to see my county win an all Ireland. Being 2nd or 4th or whever is all irrelevant.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10796 - 20/07/2021 13:19:09    2362108

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Replying To brian:  "Some really good points in there. Fair play Jonnycee

Interesting point on Donegal. Would Donegal posters agree with that? Is bonner at the end of the road. Time seems to be rapidly catching up to Michael Murphy too. Neil McGee might not have much left either. I think they still have a very good panel and are top 6 without doubt but is it time for a new voice?"
I would agree with his Top 2 positions (Kerry & Dublin), not sure about the order of the rest.
- Monaghan are a really good side who I think are very capable of beating this Tyrone team and sticking it to Kerry or Dublin.
- Galway are a very good side, who are capable of beating Mayo and I watched them against Dublin in the league, they are not to be underestimated.

I would put it as follows
1. Dublin - They are top until somebody can actually beat them in Championship.
2. Kerry - Definitely look like the real deal contenders.
3. Mayo - Look super impressive, albeit against lower division sides, Galway will test their credentials.
4. Monaghan - Have serious pace and attacking ability, and can beat Tyrone.
5. Tyrone - Are on the right path, but Donegal going down to 14 men in first half ensured they were given a proper stern test yet.
6. Galway - Some amazing talent, have nice blend of attacking and defensive quality, dark horse team for Sam.
7. Donegal - Injuries and issues in half back line and full back lines often left Donegal on the back foot in most games.
8. Armagh - Super strong team, impressive comeback against Monaghan, probably lacking squad depth.
9. Meath - Serious quality, had they been in any other Province than Leinster, they probably would have flourished better.
10. Derry - A serious footballing county is on the rise, if they continue to strengthen their squad, they will become a serious player in Ulster football again and All Ireland football.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 653 - 20/07/2021 14:01:41    2362140

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Replying To Commodore:  "I would agree with his Top 2 positions (Kerry & Dublin), not sure about the order of the rest.
- Monaghan are a really good side who I think are very capable of beating this Tyrone team and sticking it to Kerry or Dublin.
- Galway are a very good side, who are capable of beating Mayo and I watched them against Dublin in the league, they are not to be underestimated.

I would put it as follows
1. Dublin - They are top until somebody can actually beat them in Championship.
2. Kerry - Definitely look like the real deal contenders.
3. Mayo - Look super impressive, albeit against lower division sides, Galway will test their credentials.
4. Monaghan - Have serious pace and attacking ability, and can beat Tyrone.
5. Tyrone - Are on the right path, but Donegal going down to 14 men in first half ensured they were given a proper stern test yet.
6. Galway - Some amazing talent, have nice blend of attacking and defensive quality, dark horse team for Sam.
7. Donegal - Injuries and issues in half back line and full back lines often left Donegal on the back foot in most games.
8. Armagh - Super strong team, impressive comeback against Monaghan, probably lacking squad depth.
9. Meath - Serious quality, had they been in any other Province than Leinster, they probably would have flourished better.
10. Derry - A serious footballing county is on the rise, if they continue to strengthen their squad, they will become a serious player in Ulster football again and All Ireland football."
I'd be extremely curious as to how Kildare, Meath and Westmeath currently match up with the likes of Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal. Don't think there's as much in it as you'll make out. Really wish there was a championship restructure/overhaul

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 248 - 20/07/2021 20:19:55    2362260

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Rankings are pointless from my perspective. I want to see my county win an all Ireland. Being 2nd or 4th or whever is all irrelevant."
Correct and right, my listings are not rankings, simply process of elimination game on game. Self explanatory.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2442 - 20/07/2021 20:46:12    2362274

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Replying To Wally:  "This is hilarious.

So Tyrone (who played in division 1 this year and retained their division 1 status) beat Donegal who are also a division 1 side in an Ulster semi final but are ranked as 7th in the country. Just above Cork lol!

Kildare who played are only coming out of division 2 and beat a team that was just demoted to division 3 are ranked 6th?

Better yet. Monaghan are ranked as 4th even though they are currently in the exact same position as Tyrone but came through the softer side of the draw and were recently demoted to Division 2!

Here is an accurate reflection of were things sit.

1. Dublin - obvious reasons
2. Kerry - almost as obvious
3. Tyrone - Div 1 side with pedigree and a lot of quality players to come back in. Made it to Ulster final on hard side of draw.
4. Galway - Div 1 side and Connaght finalists
5. Mayo - Placed as 5th due to the fact they played div 2 football this year and are without their main scorer and captain for the championship.
6. Monaghan - Div 2 side and Ulster Finalists
7. Kildare - Leinster Finalists but don't really stand a chance in the final. Regained promotion to div 1 though.
8. Armagh - Very unlucky not to make the Ulster Final but did retain their div 1 status.
9. Donegal - Division 1 side and could have made the Ulster Final.
10. Meath - Gave Dublin a good scare but are still a div 2 side."
Eh sorry to burst your bubble but Monaghan beat Galway in the relegation playoff. Galway will be in Div. 2 next year. .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5596 - 20/07/2021 20:56:34    2362279

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Rankings are pointless from my perspective. I want to see my county win an all Ireland. Being 2nd or 4th or whever is all irrelevant."
I agree, at the minute I have Dublin and Kerry as the top 2, not too much between them, then the next 5 or 6 teams could beat each other depending on how things are going re injuries etc.
Connacht and Ulster finals will be very good, but I think it is either Kerry or Dublin for Sam.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1735 - 20/07/2021 21:52:23    2362300

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Replying To supersub15:  "1 Dublin Rightly deserve the No. 1 spot self-explanatory.
2. Mayo Until this season is over Mayo rightly deserve the No 2 spot.

3. Kerry Just about deserve the No. 3 spot.
4. Monaghan. (For the moment)
5. Galway. A couple of points better than Kildare..
6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
8. Cork ??."
You don't know much about football if you think Kildare are above Armagh,Donegal and Tyrone. I would fancy Derry and Roscommon to beat Kildare as well.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 834 - 20/07/2021 22:08:01    2362311

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I agree, at the minute I have Dublin and Kerry as the top 2, not too much between them, then the next 5 or 6 teams could beat each other depending on how things are going re injuries etc.
Connacht and Ulster finals will be very good, but I think it is either Kerry or Dublin for Sam."
Hard to argue with that based on evidence so far. Sport though has a habit of throwing a spanner in the world...I never believe it's over till it's over.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10796 - 20/07/2021 22:51:48    2362330

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Replying To Commodore:  "I would agree with his Top 2 positions (Kerry & Dublin), not sure about the order of the rest.
- Monaghan are a really good side who I think are very capable of beating this Tyrone team and sticking it to Kerry or Dublin.
- Galway are a very good side, who are capable of beating Mayo and I watched them against Dublin in the league, they are not to be underestimated.

I would put it as follows
1. Dublin - They are top until somebody can actually beat them in Championship.
2. Kerry - Definitely look like the real deal contenders.
3. Mayo - Look super impressive, albeit against lower division sides, Galway will test their credentials.
4. Monaghan - Have serious pace and attacking ability, and can beat Tyrone.
5. Tyrone - Are on the right path, but Donegal going down to 14 men in first half ensured they were given a proper stern test yet.
6. Galway - Some amazing talent, have nice blend of attacking and defensive quality, dark horse team for Sam.
7. Donegal - Injuries and issues in half back line and full back lines often left Donegal on the back foot in most games.
8. Armagh - Super strong team, impressive comeback against Monaghan, probably lacking squad depth.
9. Meath - Serious quality, had they been in any other Province than Leinster, they probably would have flourished better.
10. Derry - A serious footballing county is on the rise, if they continue to strengthen their squad, they will become a serious player in Ulster football again and All Ireland football."
Like some of the comments here.
But in my opinion
1. Galway have no identity and no consistency. Can't put 2 top performances back to back. Still behind mayo.
2. Jury out on Armagh. Historically most teams in it's first year in div 1 have a adrenaline high that carries them. Having said that they beat a Monaghan team in distress and a very poor roscommon team. Next season we will see the real Armagh.
3. Meath are a Div 2 team they are not getting any better than they were 2 years ago, there are two many emotion attachments in the job for mcentee. He get clouded by his emotions.

Jonnycee (Longford) - Posts: 168 - 21/07/2021 00:48:04    2362372

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Replying To Sweetspot:  "I'd be extremely curious as to how Kildare, Meath and Westmeath currently match up with the likes of Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal. Don't think there's as much in it as you'll make out. Really wish there was a championship restructure/overhaul"
I don't think there is a hugh amount between the side ranked No 4 - 12, most encounters between these sides do tend to be cagey tight affairs.

Donegal have played Meath quite a few times in recent seasons in both League and Championship, and most of those games were really tight, but Donegal still edged the key matches including beating Meath by 9 points in the Super 8's in 2019 and the Division 2 final.

Tyrone beat Kildare in 2019, in what was a tight match.

Monaghan have beat Kildare in 2014 and 2018 Championships, both very tight and entertaining match.

But over the last 10 years, Donegal, Monaghan and Tyrone have still won key encounters when they faced these sides, and have been able to maintain Division 1 status, so I think the rankings are justified, but these change year to year, so maybe next year Meath, Kildare or Westmeath might make the leap.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 653 - 21/07/2021 09:39:54    2362405

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Replying To Saynothing:  "You don't know much about football if you think Kildare are above Armagh,Donegal and Tyrone. I would fancy Derry and Roscommon to beat Kildare as well."
You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2442 - 21/07/2021 10:43:08    2362429

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Replying To supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
based off the teams left:

1) Dublin - all this talk about decline, something tells me a hiding is coming, they're middle spine is still unbelievable
2) Kerry - awesome forward line, no doubt best in Ireland, midfield back they are improving
3) Mayo - I know its weak opposition but you have to beat the teams in front of you. serious depth and competition
4) Tyrone - Just slightly ahead of Monaghan only because of depth on the bench. Very close though easily swap
5) Monaghan - as Above
6) Kildare - Showing well upfront, have some excellent forwards
7) Galway - Good going forward, defensively just ok
8) Cork - did beat a limerick team who won well the first day so improved from last year

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 84 - 21/07/2021 14:18:13    2362514

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Replying To Jonnycee:  "Like some of the comments here.
But in my opinion
1. Galway have no identity and no consistency. Can't put 2 top performances back to back. Still behind mayo.
2. Jury out on Armagh. Historically most teams in it's first year in div 1 have a adrenaline high that carries them. Having said that they beat a Monaghan team in distress and a very poor roscommon team. Next season we will see the real Armagh.
3. Meath are a Div 2 team they are not getting any better than they were 2 years ago, there are two many emotion attachments in the job for mcentee. He get clouded by his emotions."
I think we know we have issues like all teams. Even the jury is out on the heir to the throne Kerry. Just one thing. Your point about our inconsistency is fair enough. I am a little intrigued about your point though that we have no identity. Do you mean in terms of definite type or style of play or system of play or set up or something completely different. In the KW era we had a definite set up which was over critiqued in the media who did not realise that was the general set up for most teams but hit on us as if to say 'dare not attempt to start playing with the big boys'.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1780 - 21/07/2021 15:13:49    2362547

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Replying To conman1282:  "
Replying To supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
based off the teams left:

1) Dublin - all this talk about decline, something tells me a hiding is coming, they're middle spine is still unbelievable
2) Kerry - awesome forward line, no doubt best in Ireland, midfield back they are improving
3) Mayo - I know its weak opposition but you have to beat the teams in front of you. serious depth and competition
4) Tyrone - Just slightly ahead of Monaghan only because of depth on the bench. Very close though easily swap
5) Monaghan - as Above
6) Kildare - Showing well upfront, have some excellent forwards
7) Galway - Good going forward, defensively just ok
8) Cork - did beat a limerick team who won well the first day so improved from last year"
I've seen a lot of people say Kerry have a better forward line than Dublin. That is not the case imo. Once Dublin get their defensive injuries cleared up, this will probably be their forward line:

Scully Kilkenny Howard
Rock Con Costello/Small

How many Kerry players would break into that team? Clifford definitely instead of Costello/Small but after that? Maybe Sean O'Shea but nobody else.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 264 - 21/07/2021 15:16:00    2362548

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Replying To MayoDan:  "
Replying To conman1282:  "[quote=supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
based off the teams left:

1) Dublin - all this talk about decline, something tells me a hiding is coming, they're middle spine is still unbelievable
2) Kerry - awesome forward line, no doubt best in Ireland, midfield back they are improving
3) Mayo - I know its weak opposition but you have to beat the teams in front of you. serious depth and competition
4) Tyrone - Just slightly ahead of Monaghan only because of depth on the bench. Very close though easily swap
5) Monaghan - as Above
6) Kildare - Showing well upfront, have some excellent forwards
7) Galway - Good going forward, defensively just ok
8) Cork - did beat a limerick team who won well the first day so improved from last year"
I've seen a lot of people say Kerry have a better forward line than Dublin. That is not the case imo. Once Dublin get their defensive injuries cleared up, this will probably be their forward line:

Scully Kilkenny Howard
Rock Con Costello/Small

How many Kerry players would break into that team? Clifford definitely instead of Costello/Small but after that? Maybe Sean O'Shea but nobody else."]"Maybe" Sean o'Shea , are you for real ?

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2723 - 22/07/2021 08:00:01    2362719

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Replying To supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
supersub15, i think you're point about putting Kildare higher is a misnomer because they are still in the championship. Would Kildare, Galway or Cork beat Donegal or Armagh. I would doubt that in most cases. Kildare are still in the championship after avoiding Dublin in the Leinster semi final, otherwise they would be out of it.

Donegal and Armagh have played higher calibre teams all year, including during the league. they have lost to divison 1 teams. Kildare were beaten at home by Clare.

I'm not knocking Kildare in saying this but given the condensed league and championship they need to be factored together. You can't discount teams because they lost in the first round of their provincial championships which everyone knows is a flawed system. It's why league form should be considered.

Take Cork, you have them in the top 8 yet they ended up in a relegation playoff in division 2. Galway were relegated to division.

I would say Meath would win 5/6 from 10 games against Galway, Cork, Kildare and maybe Amagh. But they wouldn't beat Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Dublin or Monaghan so that's how you'd assess a top 10 to me. Not based on teams getting to provinical finals.

The top 6 teams are established and clearly demarcated from everyone else.
Dublin
Kerry
Mayo
Tyrone
Monaghan
Donegal

Rankings should then start from 7 because until you can beat those teams you shouldn't be ranked higher than them.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1274 - 22/07/2021 11:02:24    2362770

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Replying To brian:  "
Replying To supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
supersub15, i think you're point about putting Kildare higher is a misnomer because they are still in the championship. Would Kildare, Galway or Cork beat Donegal or Armagh. I would doubt that in most cases. Kildare are still in the championship after avoiding Dublin in the Leinster semi final, otherwise they would be out of it.

Donegal and Armagh have played higher calibre teams all year, including during the league. they have lost to divison 1 teams. Kildare were beaten at home by Clare.

I'm not knocking Kildare in saying this but given the condensed league and championship they need to be factored together. You can't discount teams because they lost in the first round of their provincial championships which everyone knows is a flawed system. It's why league form should be considered.

Take Cork, you have them in the top 8 yet they ended up in a relegation playoff in division 2. Galway were relegated to division.

I would say Meath would win 5/6 from 10 games against Galway, Cork, Kildare and maybe Amagh. But they wouldn't beat Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Dublin or Monaghan so that's how you'd assess a top 10 to me. Not based on teams getting to provinical finals.

The top 6 teams are established and clearly demarcated from everyone else.
Dublin
Kerry
Mayo
Tyrone
Monaghan
Donegal

Rankings should then start from 7 because until you can beat those teams you shouldn't be ranked higher than them."
I would replace Donegal with Galway on your list, nothing to do with reaching a Provincial final but I think once they get it together they have much more talent than Donegal and I think you will see this at the weekend v Mayo.

They have a great chance to beat Mayo in a few days time especially with Cillian O'Connor out and covid issues.

Donegal could find themselves at no. 4 in Ulster never mind Ireland in the next two years if they cant shake off their flakiness.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 22/07/2021 11:22:53    2362780

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Replying To MayoDan:  "
Replying To conman1282:  "[quote=supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
based off the teams left:

1) Dublin - all this talk about decline, something tells me a hiding is coming, they're middle spine is still unbelievable
2) Kerry - awesome forward line, no doubt best in Ireland, midfield back they are improving
3) Mayo - I know its weak opposition but you have to beat the teams in front of you. serious depth and competition
4) Tyrone - Just slightly ahead of Monaghan only because of depth on the bench. Very close though easily swap
5) Monaghan - as Above
6) Kildare - Showing well upfront, have some excellent forwards
7) Galway - Good going forward, defensively just ok
8) Cork - did beat a limerick team who won well the first day so improved from last year"
I've seen a lot of people say Kerry have a better forward line than Dublin. That is not the case imo. Once Dublin get their defensive injuries cleared up, this will probably be their forward line:

Scully Kilkenny Howard
Rock Con Costello/Small

How many Kerry players would break into that team? Clifford definitely instead of Costello/Small but after that? Maybe Sean O'Shea but nobody else."]this is the rankings based off the year to date.

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 84 - 22/07/2021 11:42:51    2362788

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Replying To brian:  "
Replying To supersub15:  "You are probably correct in saying "I don't know much about football" and I'm not disputing that mo cara, then how could I when all my life I have been submerged in div.4 ranked 30 ish, speaking of rankings as I have explained before, 4 posts back. I am not ranking counties, first and foremost if I was I would include all 32 counties not the top 8,9, or 10. I would also include their performances in the NFL, and indeed their overall performance throughout the year, again my placings (not rankings) are championship performance only on knock out basis game on game, if you tune in after this weeks games you will see it will be no longer 8 counties that are left in the race for Sam.


PS - The reason Kildare are over Armagh and Donegal is because Kildare is still in the championship Armagh and Donegal are not as for Tyrone I have already said 7. Tyrone. Beat a Donegal side that wasn't firing on all cylinders, missed a penalty by their talisman who was later sent off, they rallied well towards the end but their luck ran out,
As for Kildare, - 6. Kildare, beat an excellent Westmeath side that never gave up even after conceding 2 goals, 0-06 down fought back to within 0-02, possibly the 2nd or 3rd best team in leinster going into that game.
My assessment of where we are at, admit ably it may not perfect but its very reasonable.
"
supersub15, i think you're point about putting Kildare higher is a misnomer because they are still in the championship. Would Kildare, Galway or Cork beat Donegal or Armagh. I would doubt that in most cases. Kildare are still in the championship after avoiding Dublin in the Leinster semi final, otherwise they would be out of it.

Donegal and Armagh have played higher calibre teams all year, including during the league. they have lost to divison 1 teams. Kildare were beaten at home by Clare.

I'm not knocking Kildare in saying this but given the condensed league and championship they need to be factored together. You can't discount teams because they lost in the first round of their provincial championships which everyone knows is a flawed system. It's why league form should be considered.

Take Cork, you have them in the top 8 yet they ended up in a relegation playoff in division 2. Galway were relegated to division.

I would say Meath would win 5/6 from 10 games against Galway, Cork, Kildare and maybe Amagh. But they wouldn't beat Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone, Dublin or Monaghan so that's how you'd assess a top 10 to me. Not based on teams getting to provinical finals.

The top 6 teams are established and clearly demarcated from everyone else.
Dublin
Kerry
Mayo
Tyrone
Monaghan
Donegal

Rankings should then start from 7 because until you can beat those teams you shouldn't be ranked higher than them."
In fairness we lost a relegation playoff to Monaghan in Clones by 1 point after e/t after being 5 points up and missing a host of gilt edge chances in normal time plus having the two best teams in the country in our league group. Monaghan rightly so are being lauded as the team of the championship yet the jury is out on us by many (some of it correct). Standard wise we are closer to a Div 1 side than a Div 2 side. I don't think there is a whole pile of difference between us Donegal, Monaghan, Kildare and Armagh and would see that grouping plus Mayo and Tyrone as next to Dublin and Kerry.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1780 - 22/07/2021 12:04:16    2362796

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