National Forum

The GAA And "Northern Ireland"

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Replying To essmac:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "Last year when Sean Cavanagh said "Certainly, up here in the UK" when referring to Tyrone and presumably the other five counties, many in the GAA community nearly went into complete and utter meltdown, and directed vile abuse towards him while hiding behind their laptops. Sean clearly recognises the fact that there are 6 counties who participate in the "All-Ireland" which are part of the UK. The Dublin government & the GAA have about as much a legal claim or right to rename New York & London, as they do on Tyrone or any other part of the UK.

It's inevitable that a "border poll", will happen in the future, and whatever the outcome there will be one large minority, but I believe we're a million miles away from ever seeing kids on the Shankill road ever wanting to be part of any "GAA Community" or have anything to do with a Dublin government. Bernard Brogan could be a fiddle player from Clare for all they know or care. The six counties are nothing but a problem child for the British government and they can't wait to hand over the brat to Dublin, should that ever happen, that's when the proverbial will really hit the fan."
" I believe we're a million miles away from ever seeing kids on the Shankill road ever wanting to be part of any "GAA Community"

Somewhat over-stated.

You perhaps aren't aware that, for instance, Loyalist East Belfast has set up East Belfast's first Irish-medium integrated nursery school, Naíscoil Na Seolta. It's planning to open its doors in September 2021, for children of pre pre-school age (kids born between 2nd July 2018 and 1st July 2019, who will be starting primary one in 2023). Plans for an integrated Irish-medium primary school in East Belfast are also underway.

This was started by Linda Ervine, wife of the late David Ervine, himself a staunch Loyalist, and a decent, fair-minded man.

If I was to predict, I won't see much change happening for a long time, and, if it does, it's more likely to be a dual sovereignty confederation set up, akin to the Swiss model."
It's a good post Essmac, but Linda Ervine was the Sister in Law of David Ervine, not his wife.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1475 - 18/04/2021 09:39:16    2337621

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Haha. Where oh where did I write that. I'm sure like ur pathetic party you have that detail on my data ? Please point it to me ? No ? Ok then stop posting lies."
I dont follow any political party up here. I've said that several times. Another problem of yours is that you see all 6 county posters as Sinn Fein supporters and make sweeping judgements of our politics and motives just like the bigots we deal with in loyalist circles. The fact that you want to try and deny some of the things you've been saying at this stage is really quite pathetic but not at all surprising. You can hunt out past posts if your so convinced. I'll not be wasting that much time on you.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2225 - 18/04/2021 09:59:54    2337625

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I remember talking to a couple from Derry at a Brice Springsteen concert a few years ago in Belfast. They told us how their GAA field was destroyed during the troubles and even had tar poured on it. Constant intimidation going to club game's, held up at army checkpoints to delay getting to a game.

Ironic as we were talking a UVF flag went up on front of stage and was taken down by security and some people were turfed out. "You see what we've had to put up with" they said.

At Springsteen shows they always fly the American flag and flag of whatever country there are in. In Belfast they don't fly any flags....the only worldwide venue they can't do this.

Who are we in the south to preach? We have no idea what northern GAA people went through. Sooner or later the United Ireland debate will begin though. I think both sides are going to have to give up symbols and flags in a new Federal Country...who knows time will tell.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10665 - 18/04/2021 10:03:56    2337626

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Replying To London125:  "
Replying To Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Democratically mandated? Could you point out to me when Northern Ireland was democratically mandated?

The GFA referendum was not such a mandate. The question asked was "Do you support the agreement reached at the multi-party talks on Northern Ireland". It is certainly a stretch to say this means Northern Ireland has been democratically mandated. It was a vote to end a violent conflict.

You don't have to be a backwoodsman or be fighting the wars of yesteryear to think that the partition of Ireland created, in Connolly's words 'a carnival of reaction' on both sides of the border that has warped political and social development in both states to this day."
Crikes talk about slow learners.

That was not what was voted on. In fact what was voted on was amongst other things a change to articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution which removed the claim and recognised Northern Ireland.

Connolly died 105 years ago. There have been some developments since then.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 10:25:40    2337635

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Replying To Saynothing:  "
Replying To Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Are you our Royal correspondent in disguise? Statement right up his street. You talk about ni, that great they don't even have an national anthem. Scotland have 1, Wales have 1, England have 1 and Ireland has 1. Loyalists are a joke and they don't like the fact that Nationalists don't take their crap anymore. GAA is what kept Nationalists going through the years and always will. Great to see Jim Allister, Gregory Campbell and the like raging like a bull at the thought of Nationalists getting a bit of fairness. Love it . Keep taking your mints."
I never said anything about an anthem nor did I ever say Northern Ireland is a nation which it certainly isn't so I know what you're on about here. Maybe you don't know the difference between a nation and a democratic state? Probably not in fact.

I too relish the discomfort of those Unionists that you mention. They've had it coming to them for decades.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 10:29:09    2337638

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Replying To GAAdundalk:  "Democracy? Really? Democracy didnt occur when Ireland was illegally occupied and conquered by the English. Why should it be relevant in a sporting body?
Democracy only applied when it suits certain agendas."
That was over 400 years ago. "The English are gone Bull".

Democracy has taken hold since then and whether you like it or not the vast majority on the island voted for the current constitutional arrangements which provide for a two state solution on the island including the state of Northern Ireland (and recognition of its place in the UK). Even RTE accept that now and call the place Northern Ireland - for decades they couldn't stomach the term. It's high time for the GAA to do likewise.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 10:37:03    2337640

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
If we went with your constitutional position we would ALL be ruled by the the UK!! Ireland is a small island and folk like yourself appear ignorant to the fact that Ireland has 32 counties on the last count- I do not think that the number has changed. Calling folk backwoodsmen does not strengthen the point you are trying to make. You should also be aware that if you took three words away from the DUP's vocabulary they would have very little to say (no, union, never).

On a side note some of the antics going on south of the border shows that we are not very united either!- examples are giving vaccines out of place, entitlements to certain folk in our society, HSE looking after the office staff before front line workers, factory workers being paid peanuts and the rest of us having to pay for their accommodation even though the same companies are owned by billionaires. We also have a lot of work to do.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2255 - 18/04/2021 10:40:16    2337641

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "Democracy went out the window in the 1918 elections when the vast majority of Irish people. voted for an Irish republic which was Ignored by the British state."
So are you saying you're not a democrat then?

Democracy wasn't respected in 1918 I fully agree, but what about 1921 and 1998. Do you accept the legitimacy of those votes by the people of Ireland? Those votes took place as a consequence of developments that followed 1918. People moved on. Have you?

On both occasions they voted for constitutional arrangements that provide for "Northern Ireland". Do you accept that fact or does democracy only apply when you like the outcome?

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 10:44:17    2337642

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Replying To yew_tree:  "I remember talking to a couple from Derry at a Brice Springsteen concert a few years ago in Belfast. They told us how their GAA field was destroyed during the troubles and even had tar poured on it. Constant intimidation going to club game's, held up at army checkpoints to delay getting to a game.

Ironic as we were talking a UVF flag went up on front of stage and was taken down by security and some people were turfed out. "You see what we've had to put up with" they said.

At Springsteen shows they always fly the American flag and flag of whatever country there are in. In Belfast they don't fly any flags....the only worldwide venue they can't do this.

Who are we in the south to preach? We have no idea what northern GAA people went through. Sooner or later the United Ireland debate will begin though. I think both sides are going to have to give up symbols and flags in a new Federal Country...who knows time will tell."
Speak for yourself when you say "we have no idea".

"Who are we to preach" well we're one of the parties to an international agreement concerning Northern Ireland that our government are co-signatories to and our constitution reflects that. So our course we should preach. The troubles were in part caused by the fact we didn't preach at all for decades after 1922 (and let an appalling and unequal political system thrive) and we only tried to intervene (sheepishly) from 1969 but without any international mandate to do so. Now we have thanks to the GFA. So burying in heads in the sand is not an option and should never have been. So we have every right to preach.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 10:54:18    2337644

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "It is. You don't know what a state is, plainly. Enough."
I repeat. Northern Ireland, just like England, Scotland and Wale, are not sovereign states. The all make up The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is a unitary state.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1410 - 18/04/2021 11:02:28    2337646

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Replying To galwayford:  "He is from Carlow, and it is not known as a successful GAA county. Maybe a bit of bitterness coming out from Onionbreath."
How dare the Unionists say that the GAA is made up of nothing but inward looking inarticulate parochial gombeens. All they need to do is look at you two fine specimens to realize that's nothing more than a myth.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 18/04/2021 11:04:46    2337647

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "
Replying To Saynothing:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Are you our Royal correspondent in disguise? Statement right up his street. You talk about ni, that great they don't even have an national anthem. Scotland have 1, Wales have 1, England have 1 and Ireland has 1. Loyalists are a joke and they don't like the fact that Nationalists don't take their crap anymore. GAA is what kept Nationalists going through the years and always will. Great to see Jim Allister, Gregory Campbell and the like raging like a bull at the thought of Nationalists getting a bit of fairness. Love it . Keep taking your mints."
I never said anything about an anthem nor did I ever say Northern Ireland is a nation which it certainly isn't so I know what you're on about here. Maybe you don't know the difference between a nation and a democratic state? Probably not in fact.

I too relish the discomfort of those Unionists that you mention. They've had it coming to them for decades."]If you knew your history on the GAA, they were the only sporting organisation who were in favour of a "community multi sports stadium" in NI but the other sports had a meltdown and each had to go their seperate ways. There were some senior GAA people in NI who asked the question about playing the national anthem before every game or flying the flag at every game as this may limit their inclusiveness agenda.

The GAA is proud of it's history and will never dilute what it stands for, however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member.

The media, certain political parties north and south try to paint the GAA in a certain light, but GAA have no need to be insecure or question the GAA's values. There is another sporting organisation who play lip service to inclusivness with gestures but at the same time limit their activities to certain classes and private schools, that in my opinion is a bigger issue but one many don't want to acknowledge.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 814 - 18/04/2021 11:17:29    2337649

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The big difference between Northern Ireland and our republic is mindset - progression, open mindedness, ambition etc There are those who will forever be stuck in the past & hold onto history like military medals on their chests. Aside from this where would the 50% of the population in NI employed in the public service be employed? Idealism is one thing but hard economic reality is totally different.

P.Mckenna (Louth) - Posts: 51 - 18/04/2021 11:30:10    2337652

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "
Replying To Saynothing:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Are you our Royal correspondent in disguise? Statement right up his street. You talk about ni, that great they don't even have an national anthem. Scotland have 1, Wales have 1, England have 1 and Ireland has 1. Loyalists are a joke and they don't like the fact that Nationalists don't take their crap anymore. GAA is what kept Nationalists going through the years and always will. Great to see Jim Allister, Gregory Campbell and the like raging like a bull at the thought of Nationalists getting a bit of fairness. Love it . Keep taking your mints."
I never said anything about an anthem nor did I ever say Northern Ireland is a nation which it certainly isn't so I know what you're on about here. Maybe you don't know the difference between a nation and a democratic state? Probably not in fact.

I too relish the discomfort of those Unionists that you mention. They've had it coming to them for decades."]You said Northern Ireland was a "state."

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5489 - 18/04/2021 11:32:03    2337653

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Oh lord help us. What a load of horse manure.

There isn't a catholic majority in Northern Ireland. It's a minority and set to stay that way. Protestants are heading for minority as well.

Do you not understand that both are under 50%?

Do you understand that majority means over 50%?

Furthermore do you understand that a census is of everyone whereas for a border poll only 18 year olds and over can vote?

Do you understand these simple concepts or are you buying Sinn Fein nonsense propaganda where, to save fave with their electorate, they big up the public calls for a border poll but in fact don't want one at all (surely you can see that) because they know it's 20 years too early and a vote now or in the near future (of over 18's) will be soundly beaten."
Oh I understand all right and no political party ever influenced me, or ever will, I believe in a United Ireland regardless
The point I made, which you can't seem to or refuse to accept, is that there IS a Catholic majority in the school going under 18 demographic currently 51%, and, in the over 60s there is a protestant majority 57%. Everyone up here in Ulster knows that the next generation of nationalists will have the voting numbers to WIN a border poll, should they choose. The ADULT thing to do would be to prepare for such a distinct possibility/probability.

The current census returns underway will further underline the requirement for honest debate around the inevitable, or we can always follow you and just call it propaganda because it doesn't suit our opinion
I often wondered why the DUP don't just call a border poll now in advance of that, it must be very tight either way for them not to so, because they don't miss a chance to strengthen the so called union that only they want. White Hall would drop ye in a heartbeat.

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 897 - 18/04/2021 11:33:39    2337654

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Replying To Onion_Sack:  "Ahh come on now Abu! What has Whitehall Colmcille got to do with this? Just because it's John Costellos club and the young lad! There's no need for dat now!"
Not doing well with the onions today fella

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 897 - 18/04/2021 11:35:02    2337655

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "You need to look up democracy."
Demorcratically elected by whom? Ireland in 1921 its population was 4.5 million just under 1,000,000 "voted" for Northern Ireland, 3.5 voted for a Republic. 3.5 did not vote for chunk off it to be excluded. Read your history not the selective ala carte version you have constructed in your own head just to have a tease and laugh here.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4669 - 18/04/2021 12:04:00    2337661

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Replying To arock:  "Demorcratically elected by whom? Ireland in 1921 its population was 4.5 million just under 1,000,000 "voted" for Northern Ireland, 3.5 voted for a Republic. 3.5 did not vote for chunk off it to be excluded. Read your history not the selective ala carte version you have constructed in your own head just to have a tease and laugh here."
Empty vessels make the most noise.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1410 - 18/04/2021 12:29:44    2337663

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Replying To browncows:  "
Replying To Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
If we went with your constitutional position we would ALL be ruled by the the UK!! Ireland is a small island and folk like yourself appear ignorant to the fact that Ireland has 32 counties on the last count- I do not think that the number has changed. Calling folk backwoodsmen does not strengthen the point you are trying to make. You should also be aware that if you took three words away from the DUP's vocabulary they would have very little to say (no, union, never).

On a side note some of the antics going on south of the border shows that we are not very united either!- examples are giving vaccines out of place, entitlements to certain folk in our society, HSE looking after the office staff before front line workers, factory workers being paid peanuts and the rest of us having to pay for their accommodation even though the same companies are owned by billionaires. We also have a lot of work to do."
No we wouldn't ALL be ruled by the UK stop talking horse manure will you.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 13:01:32    2337670

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "Oh I understand all right and no political party ever influenced me, or ever will, I believe in a United Ireland regardless
The point I made, which you can't seem to or refuse to accept, is that there IS a Catholic majority in the school going under 18 demographic currently 51%, and, in the over 60s there is a protestant majority 57%. Everyone up here in Ulster knows that the next generation of nationalists will have the voting numbers to WIN a border poll, should they choose. The ADULT thing to do would be to prepare for such a distinct possibility/probability.

The current census returns underway will further underline the requirement for honest debate around the inevitable, or we can always follow you and just call it propaganda because it doesn't suit our opinion
I often wondered why the DUP don't just call a border poll now in advance of that, it must be very tight either way for them not to so, because they don't miss a chance to strengthen the so called union that only they want. White Hall would drop ye in a heartbeat."
But that's not actually the point you made at all. Now you're making a different point.

It doesn't make make your original point about a catholic majority accurate. Keep up.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 13:09:41    2337674

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