National Forum

The GAA And "Northern Ireland"

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Replying To arock:  "Demorcratically elected by whom? Ireland in 1921 its population was 4.5 million just under 1,000,000 "voted" for Northern Ireland, 3.5 voted for a Republic. 3.5 did not vote for chunk off it to be excluded. Read your history not the selective ala carte version you have constructed in your own head just to have a tease and laugh here."
In January 1922 the democratically elected Dail voted by 64 57 to accept the 1921 Treaty that confirmed Ireland as a Free State but left behind six counties became part of Northern Ireland. Like or not and many didn't that was the democratic decision.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1305 - 18/04/2021 13:18:04    2337676

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "Oh I understand all right and no political party ever influenced me, or ever will, I believe in a United Ireland regardless
The point I made, which you can't seem to or refuse to accept, is that there IS a Catholic majority in the school going under 18 demographic currently 51%, and, in the over 60s there is a protestant majority 57%. Everyone up here in Ulster knows that the next generation of nationalists will have the voting numbers to WIN a border poll, should they choose. The ADULT thing to do would be to prepare for such a distinct possibility/probability.

The current census returns underway will further underline the requirement for honest debate around the inevitable, or we can always follow you and just call it propaganda because it doesn't suit our opinion
I often wondered why the DUP don't just call a border poll now in advance of that, it must be very tight either way for them not to so, because they don't miss a chance to strengthen the so called union that only they want. White Hall would drop ye in a heartbeat."
The decision to hold a border poll sits with the UK government. When it eventually comes about you'd imagine it will have be done with the consultation with local representatives and Dublin but the decision lies with London.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 18/04/2021 13:44:48    2337679

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "The big difference between Northern Ireland and our republic is mindset - progression, open mindedness, ambition etc There are those who will forever be stuck in the past & hold onto history like military medals on their chests. Aside from this where would the 50% of the population in NI employed in the public service be employed? Idealism is one thing but hard economic reality is totally different."
There are extremes in society the world over, this is no different to people living in the Republic or NI. Take recent referendums in the Republic, some areas voted against progression but at the same time many in NI would be in favour of progressing those social issues.

You cannot put an umbrella over a whole population and say they're living in the past, don't want to progress etc, in the same way as you say everyone in the Republic wants progression or have a positive outward looking "mindset". These aren't facts, there are huge social problems in the republic and many area's who wouldn't want an improvement in crime management for example.

You would think there is a Berlin wall built around the border by your posts, the problems in the republic are also in NI, some people are outward looking in the republic and NI but there are also people completly against changing social norms in both. There are area's in NI that have been left behind, with no leadership but there are also inner city areas in the republic who are left behind and have the same crime issues.

The majority of people in NI are living in 2021 alongside each other but the majority don't shout about it, as they just get on with life. Any change in terms of a United Ireland will come from this majority of people who will decide when it's the pragmatic action to take.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 814 - 18/04/2021 13:45:16    2337680

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I was going to write a lengthy post on why the OP is so far off base and his opinions are built on an a wholly ignorant interpretation of the GFA but honestly lads he isn't worth any of our time. This thread has gone on way longer that it earned the right to. Obviously I'm adding to it here but it's based on a hell of a weak minded premise.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3451 - 18/04/2021 13:48:16    2337681

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Replying To GAAdundalk:  "What cultural differences is there between southern Catholics and northern Catholics im genuinely intrigued.
I also live in border area and would 100% support reunification"
Partition is now in it's hundredth year, that is more than three generations of people on this island brought up and educated under different systems so some cultural differences will have emerged in the meanwhile. My our children have cousins in northern counties and when they were young I often eavesdropped on their conversations and was amazed at the subtle differences that emerged in those conversations, school classes were different, no Junior infants etc, A and O levels, later it was car insurance, motor tax, health systems. Over time slight differences emerge and will this will probably continue as long as partition continues.

Now for an interesting question for GAA officers in (Six Counties, North of Ireland, Up There, Northern Ireland, Ulster minus three, - take your pick), if your were making an application for an official grant on behalf of your club, administered by dare I say "The Northern Ireland Office" would you cite the official title of the office in your application?

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 804 - 18/04/2021 13:55:30    2337682

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Replying To sam1884:  "
Replying To Onion Breath:  "[quote=Saynothing:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Are you our Royal correspondent in disguise? Statement right up his street. You talk about ni, that great they don't even have an national anthem. Scotland have 1, Wales have 1, England have 1 and Ireland has 1. Loyalists are a joke and they don't like the fact that Nationalists don't take their crap anymore. GAA is what kept Nationalists going through the years and always will. Great to see Jim Allister, Gregory Campbell and the like raging like a bull at the thought of Nationalists getting a bit of fairness. Love it . Keep taking your mints."
I never said anything about an anthem nor did I ever say Northern Ireland is a nation which it certainly isn't so I know what you're on about here. Maybe you don't know the difference between a nation and a democratic state? Probably not in fact.

I too relish the discomfort of those Unionists that you mention. They've had it coming to them for decades."]If you knew your history on the GAA, they were the only sporting organisation who were in favour of a "community multi sports stadium" in NI but the other sports had a meltdown and each had to go their seperate ways. There were some senior GAA people in NI who asked the question about playing the national anthem before every game or flying the flag at every game as this may limit their inclusiveness agenda.

The GAA is proud of it's history and will never dilute what it stands for, however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member.

The media, certain political parties north and south try to paint the GAA in a certain light, but GAA have no need to be insecure or question the GAA's values. There is another sporting organisation who play lip service to inclusivness with gestures but at the same time limit their activities to certain classes and private schools, that in my opinion is a bigger issue but one many don't want to acknowledge."]however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member

Is that meant to be a joke ? And killed because they were a member of what, a terrorist organisation? Stop your auld GAA propaganda peddling. Who was killed because they were a member of the GAA ? And please don't trample on the graves of those who were murdered on Bloody Sunday and tell us they were killed "because they were members of the GAA".

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 18/04/2021 14:29:51    2337687

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Ah stop will you ... surely you can see a problem with this (in terms of community reconciliation etc.) you sound like one of gobsheens from Sinn Fein."
I don't see it as a problem, you've invented the problem and then got offended by your own invented problem.

"you sound like one of gobsheen from Sinn Féin'

Skipping over your inability to coherently write, if a 'Sinn Féin gobsheen' would think that you have just made up something to be annoyed about so that you could come online and virtue signal about how great you and your opinions are then I am indeed a gobsheen.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13318 - 18/04/2021 14:32:38    2337688

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "Speak for yourself when you say "we have no idea".

"Who are we to preach" well we're one of the parties to an international agreement concerning Northern Ireland that our government are co-signatories to and our constitution reflects that. So our course we should preach. The troubles were in part caused by the fact we didn't preach at all for decades after 1922 (and let an appalling and unequal political system thrive) and we only tried to intervene (sheepishly) from 1969 but without any international mandate to do so. Now we have thanks to the GFA. So burying in heads in the sand is not an option and should never have been. So we have every right to preach. "
As a matter of interest how do you see a united Ireland?
It's not as simple as taking the 6 counties under our current republic.

My preach argument was aimed more at us southern gaels who think we understand the north and what GAA members in the 6 counties went through...we don't because we didn't live it.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10665 - 18/04/2021 15:08:51    2337692

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Replying To sam1884:  "There are extremes in society the world over, this is no different to people living in the Republic or NI. Take recent referendums in the Republic, some areas voted against progression but at the same time many in NI would be in favour of progressing those social issues.

You cannot put an umbrella over a whole population and say they're living in the past, don't want to progress etc, in the same way as you say everyone in the Republic wants progression or have a positive outward looking "mindset". These aren't facts, there are huge social problems in the republic and many area's who wouldn't want an improvement in crime management for example.

You would think there is a Berlin wall built around the border by your posts, the problems in the republic are also in NI, some people are outward looking in the republic and NI but there are also people completly against changing social norms in both. There are area's in NI that have been left behind, with no leadership but there are also inner city areas in the republic who are left behind and have the same crime issues.

The majority of people in NI are living in 2021 alongside each other but the majority don't shout about it, as they just get on with life. Any change in terms of a United Ireland will come from this majority of people who will decide when it's the pragmatic action to take."
Look at who the elected representatives are in the north & explain to me how that society has progressed. Many catholics I know up there (professional & educated types) vote more in the unionist tradition as they are happy with the status quo & would never dream of voting SF. And most people that I know in the republic have no interest in reunification as they know it is merely a romantic aspiration in a ballad & would be detrimental to our global standing & economic progress. Maybe over in the UK, you know better?
Now address the economics of the dream please.

P.Mckenna (Louth) - Posts: 51 - 18/04/2021 15:48:16    2337697

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Sir, - At a seminar in the Glencree Centre on Friday, August 29th, a speaker emphasised the sensitivity of language when talking about Northern Ireland. He said that the description "the Six Counties" was both constitutionally incorrect and offensive to Unionists.

Danny Lynch's letter (August 29th) provocatively uses the description "the Six Counties", making it clear that the GAA remains locked in a tribalist time warp. It chose to miss a crucial point of the Good Friday Agreement: changes to Articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution which will recognise that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and is not "the Six Counties". The Agreement itself also consistently refers to the northern part of this island as "Northern Ireland". The GAA is not alone as Sinn Fein and the Real IRA continue to provocatively use the words "the Six Counties", thereby rejecting the will of 95 per cent of the people in the South.


Were you the author of this letter to the Irish Times Onion Breath ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 18/04/2021 15:54:12    2337698

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To sam1884:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "[quote=Saynothing:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Are you our Royal correspondent in disguise? Statement right up his street. You talk about ni, that great they don't even have an national anthem. Scotland have 1, Wales have 1, England have 1 and Ireland has 1. Loyalists are a joke and they don't like the fact that Nationalists don't take their crap anymore. GAA is what kept Nationalists going through the years and always will. Great to see Jim Allister, Gregory Campbell and the like raging like a bull at the thought of Nationalists getting a bit of fairness. Love it . Keep taking your mints."
I never said anything about an anthem nor did I ever say Northern Ireland is a nation which it certainly isn't so I know what you're on about here. Maybe you don't know the difference between a nation and a democratic state? Probably not in fact.

I too relish the discomfort of those Unionists that you mention. They've had it coming to them for decades."]If you knew your history on the GAA, they were the only sporting organisation who were in favour of a "community multi sports stadium" in NI but the other sports had a meltdown and each had to go their seperate ways. There were some senior GAA people in NI who asked the question about playing the national anthem before every game or flying the flag at every game as this may limit their inclusiveness agenda.

The GAA is proud of it's history and will never dilute what it stands for, however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member.

The media, certain political parties north and south try to paint the GAA in a certain light, but GAA have no need to be insecure or question the GAA's values. There is another sporting organisation who play lip service to inclusivness with gestures but at the same time limit their activities to certain classes and private schools, that in my opinion is a bigger issue but one many don't want to acknowledge."]however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member

Is that meant to be a joke ? And killed because they were a member of what, a terrorist organisation? Stop your auld GAA propaganda peddling. Who was killed because they were a member of the GAA ? And please don't trample on the graves of those who were murdered on Bloody Sunday and tell us they were killed "because they were members of the GAA"."]https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30903275.html

There's the experiences of one Belfast club who had 5 memebers murdered. Which is the tip of the iceberg regarding sectarian 'any fenian will do' murders across the 6 counties. I'm not sure how old you are but even the dogs in the street up here know these types of killings are a matter of fact at this stage so I suggest you read up before acting the b#llocks about people's lives!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2225 - 18/04/2021 16:09:12    2337699

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To sam1884:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "[quote=Saynothing:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Are you our Royal correspondent in disguise? Statement right up his street. You talk about ni, that great they don't even have an national anthem. Scotland have 1, Wales have 1, England have 1 and Ireland has 1. Loyalists are a joke and they don't like the fact that Nationalists don't take their crap anymore. GAA is what kept Nationalists going through the years and always will. Great to see Jim Allister, Gregory Campbell and the like raging like a bull at the thought of Nationalists getting a bit of fairness. Love it . Keep taking your mints."
I never said anything about an anthem nor did I ever say Northern Ireland is a nation which it certainly isn't so I know what you're on about here. Maybe you don't know the difference between a nation and a democratic state? Probably not in fact.

I too relish the discomfort of those Unionists that you mention. They've had it coming to them for decades."]If you knew your history on the GAA, they were the only sporting organisation who were in favour of a "community multi sports stadium" in NI but the other sports had a meltdown and each had to go their seperate ways. There were some senior GAA people in NI who asked the question about playing the national anthem before every game or flying the flag at every game as this may limit their inclusiveness agenda.

The GAA is proud of it's history and will never dilute what it stands for, however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member.

The media, certain political parties north and south try to paint the GAA in a certain light, but GAA have no need to be insecure or question the GAA's values. There is another sporting organisation who play lip service to inclusivness with gestures but at the same time limit their activities to certain classes and private schools, that in my opinion is a bigger issue but one many don't want to acknowledge."]however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member

Is that meant to be a joke ? And killed because they were a member of what, a terrorist organisation? Stop your auld GAA propaganda peddling. Who was killed because they were a member of the GAA ? And please don't trample on the graves of those who were murdered on Bloody Sunday and tell us they were killed "because they were members of the GAA"."]There were scores killed because of being members of GAA. Of the top of my head, Aidan McEnespie, 5 members of the St Endas, club in Glengormley in Belfast. On the way back from an all Ireland semifnal in Croke park August '75, members of the UDR/UDA murdered 2 GAA fans at a bogus check point. Their crime -they had GAA flags on the car. Their names, Farmer and McCartney. I don't condone what the IRA did, they killed and maimed too. Don't say though that GAA members were not targeted.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2238 - 18/04/2021 16:25:36    2337702

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I was going to write a lengthy post on why the OP is so far off base and his opinions are built on an a wholly ignorant interpretation of the GFA but honestly lads he isn't worth any of our time. This thread has gone on way longer that it earned the right to. Obviously I'm adding to it here but it's based on a hell of a weak minded premise."
Well said Whammo. The initial post on this thread was pathetic and should have been ignored.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5489 - 18/04/2021 16:31:13    2337704

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Replying To Onion Breath:  "In January 1922 the democratically elected Dail voted by 64 57 to accept the 1921 Treaty that confirmed Ireland as a Free State but left behind six counties became part of Northern Ireland. Like or not and many didn't that was the democratic decision."
You seem to forget the results of the 1918 election , a democratic vote over- ruled by the Brits. The treaty was passed because the British threatened wholesale slaughter of it was turned down.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 141 - 18/04/2021 16:41:11    2337708

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The decision to hold a border poll sits with the UK government. When it eventually comes about you'd imagine it will have be done with the consultation with local representatives and Dublin but the decision lies with London."
My reading of it is that should a situation arise where there is likely to be majority in favour of a united ireland, the UK government (NI is not a part of GB) is obliged to call a border poll under the rules of the Good Friday Agreement. Whether that could be called by a majority of MPs calling for it could be a grey area. The score is 9 each at the moment, add that to a growing Catholic population, it could be sooner than people expect or some on here are willing to accept.

In any event it is only proper that we have an open debate about a democratic reality, even FG (the political home of Southern protestants) are openly willing to debate it.
Should the GAA be involved in that political debate? Not for me, it is open to all race and creed on the 32 County Island already just like the IRFU is.
Any chance of having a discussion on here based on a future united ireland has been hijacked so I'll leave ye to it

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 897 - 18/04/2021 17:05:55    2337713

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "Look at who the elected representatives are in the north & explain to me how that society has progressed. Many catholics I know up there (professional & educated types) vote more in the unionist tradition as they are happy with the status quo & would never dream of voting SF. And most people that I know in the republic have no interest in reunification as they know it is merely a romantic aspiration in a ballad & would be detrimental to our global standing & economic progress. Maybe over in the UK, you know better?
Now address the economics of the dream please."
How is it then that the Unionist vote is in decline in the six counties? With regard to people in the Republic of Ireland, opinion polls show a clear majority would support a United Ireland. But then the people you know is more
representative, LOL.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 567 - 18/04/2021 17:09:52    2337715

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To sam1884:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "[quote=Saynothing:  "[quote=Onion Breath:  "Typical still fighting the wars of yesteryear. The vast majority have successfully moved on and successive generations now accept the constitutional position as agreed by the vast majority including nationalists in Northern Ireland which meant recognition of Northern Ireland. The backwoodsmen can't bring themselves to utter the words Northern Ireland, in spite of its official and democratically mandated status, but they need to left there to die off and the GAA is foolish to be pandering to such idiots."
Are you our Royal correspondent in disguise? Statement right up his street. You talk about ni, that great they don't even have an national anthem. Scotland have 1, Wales have 1, England have 1 and Ireland has 1. Loyalists are a joke and they don't like the fact that Nationalists don't take their crap anymore. GAA is what kept Nationalists going through the years and always will. Great to see Jim Allister, Gregory Campbell and the like raging like a bull at the thought of Nationalists getting a bit of fairness. Love it . Keep taking your mints."
I never said anything about an anthem nor did I ever say Northern Ireland is a nation which it certainly isn't so I know what you're on about here. Maybe you don't know the difference between a nation and a democratic state? Probably not in fact.

I too relish the discomfort of those Unionists that you mention. They've had it coming to them for decades."]If you knew your history on the GAA, they were the only sporting organisation who were in favour of a "community multi sports stadium" in NI but the other sports had a meltdown and each had to go their seperate ways. There were some senior GAA people in NI who asked the question about playing the national anthem before every game or flying the flag at every game as this may limit their inclusiveness agenda.

The GAA is proud of it's history and will never dilute what it stands for, however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member.

The media, certain political parties north and south try to paint the GAA in a certain light, but GAA have no need to be insecure or question the GAA's values. There is another sporting organisation who play lip service to inclusivness with gestures but at the same time limit their activities to certain classes and private schools, that in my opinion is a bigger issue but one many don't want to acknowledge."]however if you look closely they're the most inclusive, forward thinking and open organisation in the country despite many of it's members being beaten, killed, intimidated for just being a member

Is that meant to be a joke ? And killed because they were a member of what, a terrorist organisation? Stop your auld GAA propaganda peddling. Who was killed because they were a member of the GAA ? And please don't trample on the graves of those who were murdered on Bloody Sunday and tell us they were killed "because they were members of the GAA"."]This post of yours AfricanGael is a good example of why we could be doing with red thumbs on this site. Your post is deplorable. If red thumbs were available you'd get a sackful of them and deservedly so.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5489 - 18/04/2021 17:15:27    2337716

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Well said Whammo. The initial post on this thread was pathetic and should have been ignored."
Yes but I think it's also good to see the responses. It's hugely important that our younger generations are taught their history. Lads like the onion fella are not unique, theres is plenty more of them. We are afraid to teach our young men and women the bad events of the past out of fear of being offensive to some. Just like education in the US ignores the slave trade, education in the UK ignores its colonisation past and here in Ireland we are not teaching our young about the brutality that was imposed upon us. This is counter productive in the long run and a disservice to those who have been affected

97Cavans (Cavan) - Posts: 169 - 18/04/2021 17:21:18    2337721

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "You seem to forget the results of the 1918 election , a democratic vote over- ruled by the Brits. The treaty was passed because the British threatened wholesale slaughter of it was turned down."
Well you're really talking about the Westminster election when you refer to 1918, but while there wasn't a referendum in Ireland, it could be argued that it was a proxy referendum. It was the "Irish Unionists" who threatened the slaughter and dug their heels in.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1552 - 18/04/2021 17:49:29    2337722

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "Look at who the elected representatives are in the north & explain to me how that society has progressed. Many catholics I know up there (professional & educated types) vote more in the unionist tradition as they are happy with the status quo & would never dream of voting SF. And most people that I know in the republic have no interest in reunification as they know it is merely a romantic aspiration in a ballad & would be detrimental to our global standing & economic progress. Maybe over in the UK, you know better?
Now address the economics of the dream please."
Global standing in so much as the current US President supports peace but also sees Irish unity as an opportunity for the island when the time is right!

The global standing in so much as the EU would welcome back EU citizens living in NI, fully into their club!

Irish unity is more than one party, it is about a sensible, pragmatic policy which many middle class Unionists in NI have acknowledged needs to be discussed. Brexit and the progression towards Scottish independence in the next decade is going to keep the road towards English nationalism moving along. NI is and will be of no benefit to England when the UK breaks up, and they'll be open to compromises.

An All Ireland economy fully aligned to all the workings of the EU, with VAT and tax earnings all going into one Irish pot may well be a more attractive life for many in NI.

You talk about the "status quo" and may have had a point 5 years ago but the EU benefits to many in NI is gone, Scotland are moving towards independence and there is a US President who would work with all sides to come up with a pragmatic solution. I think it's closer than you think to be honest from a sensible economic viewpoint.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 814 - 18/04/2021 18:21:29    2337727

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