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RTE.

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Replying To catch22:  "The point , which you obviously missed was not as you so dramatically put it " Can you image if everyone who appear on national t.v. were allowed to spout hate, promote violence, make racists overtures etc. etc. ".
It was that you not be allowed express a different viewpoint other than that which is premeditated. Nobody is suggesting any of those silly scenarios you came up with."
It's funny how people read what they want to into a post. I never said Brolly did any of these things but used it as example why scripts are followed. The same way as an actor given a script to follow and can not put his own spin on it. I will agree that a talk show and sports analysis allow for broader personal input from the participants. However there still has to be ground rules. One is you can not be an ignoramus shouting over other people. It is not emotion. It is a deficiency in getting your point across without bullying all around you. He need to be given a yellow and then a red like he got.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 907 - 27/08/2020 16:53:15    2289390

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Not a fan of the Dunphy / Brolly showman type analysis personally, that is all there is to it. We all have our preferences. I find it quite fake and uninteresting, rehearsed makey-uppy anecdotes, over the top statements trying to get headlines, rudeness and obnoxious behaviour towards colleagues etc. It's all a big act imo, he is playing to the gallery, but each to their own if fellas want to hang on his every word.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1912 - 27/08/2020 17:13:12    2289393

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Not a fan of the Dunphy / Brolly showman type analysis personally, that is all there is to it. We all have our preferences. I find it quite fake and uninteresting, rehearsed makey-uppy anecdotes, over the top statements trying to get headlines, rudeness and obnoxious behaviour towards colleagues etc. It's all a big act imo, he is playing to the gallery, but each to their own if fellas want to hang on his every word."
Absolutely - each to their own. I wasn't a fan of the early Dunphy but I don't think that there was too much fakeness. I think that he showed a lot of genuine emotion about how he felt soccer players with skill and flair were being sidelined by the negative tactics of a series of Irish managers.
Brolly, in my own opinion, comes across as a lot more contrived than Dunphy ... and seems to have bits of the rehearsed stuff, that you refer to, mixed in with genuine emotion ... often in relation to the similar negative tactics being employed by many football managers. I still find him to be a breath of fresh air relative to most of the rest of the pundits ... who constantly seem to play it safe ... worried that they mightn't be welcomed back in counties that they dare to criticise.
I think that Dunphy improved with age - he cut down on the brashness and OTT stuff ... but I think that the host, the production team and his fellow panelists were key to getting the best out of him ... they actually got the best out of each other ... if what they did floats your boat ... and the ratings suggest that they floated many boats for many years ... the amount of time granted to the soccer panel increased over the years as the sports department realised that they had struck gold with their 'A-Team' of pundits.
Of the various GAA hosts, the only one that seems willing to allow a little controversy is Des Cahill. I wouldn't be his biggest fan but he's probably the only one who doesn't try to move the conversation on just when it's starting to get interesting/entertaining.

DubSanIarthar (Dublin) - Posts: 19 - 27/08/2020 17:47:13    2289400

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Replying To Canuck:  "It's funny how people read what they want to into a post. I never said Brolly did any of these things but used it as example why scripts are followed. The same way as an actor given a script to follow and can not put his own spin on it. I will agree that a talk show and sports analysis allow for broader personal input from the participants. However there still has to be ground rules. One is you can not be an ignoramus shouting over other people. It is not emotion. It is a deficiency in getting your point across without bullying all around you. He need to be given a yellow and then a red like he got."
That's fine, I get it , you didn't like him. He's gone and you have what is left if you think that's much better then enjoy it but it's bland and not entertaining in the slightest for me and it needn't be so one dimensional if RTE were in any way progressive. As I already mentioned, I'm no suggesting it's a script like an actor reads from , but it's more rigid and restrictive than needs be that's all. Enjoy the show.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1530 - 27/08/2020 18:28:53    2289408

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Replying To DubSanIarthar:  "Absolutely - each to their own. I wasn't a fan of the early Dunphy but I don't think that there was too much fakeness. I think that he showed a lot of genuine emotion about how he felt soccer players with skill and flair were being sidelined by the negative tactics of a series of Irish managers.
Brolly, in my own opinion, comes across as a lot more contrived than Dunphy ... and seems to have bits of the rehearsed stuff, that you refer to, mixed in with genuine emotion ... often in relation to the similar negative tactics being employed by many football managers. I still find him to be a breath of fresh air relative to most of the rest of the pundits ... who constantly seem to play it safe ... worried that they mightn't be welcomed back in counties that they dare to criticise.
I think that Dunphy improved with age - he cut down on the brashness and OTT stuff ... but I think that the host, the production team and his fellow panelists were key to getting the best out of him ... they actually got the best out of each other ... if what they did floats your boat ... and the ratings suggest that they floated many boats for many years ... the amount of time granted to the soccer panel increased over the years as the sports department realised that they had struck gold with their 'A-Team' of pundits.
Of the various GAA hosts, the only one that seems willing to allow a little controversy is Des Cahill. I wouldn't be his biggest fan but he's probably the only one who doesn't try to move the conversation on just when it's starting to get interesting/entertaining."
Yeah I'd agree with a lot of that. I don't watch as much soccer but Dunphy and Giles / Brady had a good chemistry going through the years and it felt genuine, I do think Dunphy is who he is and doesn't play up to the camera which I would give him credit for.

Joe is very knowledgeable about football and is as good as any analyst in the national media when he actually talks about football. If he had just met RTE halfway he would have been fine and he would still have that nice gig, there is always room for a bit of devilment but he didn't know when to stop. Like I said I think a lot of the bravado and grandstanding was put on and I'm not sure he believed a lot of the things he said. He seemed to be on a mission to wind up his host Joanne Cantwell throughout the 2019 football season as well, which was never going to end well for him.

I must say I was surprised when RTE took the step of getting rid of him. While a divisive figure he was a big name and it was a risky thing to do.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1912 - 27/08/2020 19:17:50    2289411

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Replying To catch22:  "That's fine, I get it , you didn't like him. He's gone and you have what is left if you think that's much better then enjoy it but it's bland and not entertaining in the slightest for me and it needn't be so one dimensional if RTE were in any way progressive. As I already mentioned, I'm no suggesting it's a script like an actor reads from , but it's more rigid and restrictive than needs be that's all. Enjoy the show."
It's not about liking Joe or not. In fact he is very knowledgeable. It is about his boisterous way of presenting that analysis. If you are making the best points they will speak for themselves. Like good club players becoming great county players with coaching Joe could be a good analyst if he was willing to take some coaching.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 907 - 27/08/2020 21:44:33    2289426

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Replying To Canuck:  "It's not about liking Joe or not. In fact he is very knowledgeable. It is about his boisterous way of presenting that analysis. If you are making the best points they will speak for themselves. Like good club players becoming great county players with coaching Joe could be a good analyst if he was willing to take some coaching."
Well , I doubt he'll be stuck for work , coaching or no coaching.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1530 - 27/08/2020 23:38:27    2289443

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Why I didn't like listening to Brolly was because he seemed to keep making the same point over and over again. He was focused on something and never moved off it. I heard you the first time Joe.

The other reason is because with RTE his analysis always focused on the ill's of the game as a showpiece rather than the specifics of why one team is doing better than the other. A lot of generalisations and generic comments. RTE tried to get more specific analysis out of him and he wouldn't go that direction.

If discussing a team in advance he'll tell you about their county board, ridicule their structures etc rarely will he give an analysis of their players to any dept or of the way they set up and how that set up will cope with their opponents set up.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1265 - 28/08/2020 12:00:03    2289481

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Replying To Mayonman:  "Why I didn't like listening to Brolly was because he seemed to keep making the same point over and over again. He was focused on something and never moved off it. I heard you the first time Joe.

The other reason is because with RTE his analysis always focused on the ill's of the game as a showpiece rather than the specifics of why one team is doing better than the other. A lot of generalisations and generic comments. RTE tried to get more specific analysis out of him and he wouldn't go that direction.

If discussing a team in advance he'll tell you about their county board, ridicule their structures etc rarely will he give an analysis of their players to any dept or of the way they set up and how that set up will cope with their opponents set up."
He was trying to be the GAAs Eamonn Dumphy. Every sport seems to think it needs one on RTE despite the actual match analysis being better without them

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1024 - 28/08/2020 16:41:21    2289528

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For the people arguing that Giles is still a good pundit he used his Newstalk slot to once again claim De Bruyne is not all he is cracked up to be and has a poor attitude. I mean I think Newstalk are probably afraid to give him the door at this stage in case it seems harsh on the man. He claimed De Bruyne was not a top player a couple of years back and now he can't let it go. Ridiculous stuff.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6813 - 28/08/2020 16:48:59    2289531

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "For the people arguing that Giles is still a good pundit he used his Newstalk slot to once again claim De Bruyne is not all he is cracked up to be and has a poor attitude. I mean I think Newstalk are probably afraid to give him the door at this stage in case it seems harsh on the man. He claimed De Bruyne was not a top player a couple of years back and now he can't let it go. Ridiculous stuff."
Yeah, if you watched the Champions League regularly when Bill was presenting, you could tell Giles was beginning to decline back then. Now he's in rapid decline and it just's sad to hear him speak about the game post the 1990's, with the exception of the Irish team

eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 121 - 28/08/2020 19:37:02    2289554

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "For the people arguing that Giles is still a good pundit he used his Newstalk slot to once again claim De Bruyne is not all he is cracked up to be and has a poor attitude. I mean I think Newstalk are probably afraid to give him the door at this stage in case it seems harsh on the man. He claimed De Bruyne was not a top player a couple of years back and now he can't let it go. Ridiculous stuff."
Giles is right in my opinion. Man city lost 9 league games, almost a quarter of their games. And have failed miserably in Champions League. If he was that good, he wouldnt go missing so often.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 649 - 29/08/2020 14:17:22    2289664

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "Giles is right in my opinion. Man city lost 9 league games, almost a quarter of their games. And have failed miserably in Champions League. If he was that good, he wouldnt go missing so often."
Did you watch any games? He didn't go missing. Always their best player.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6813 - 29/08/2020 15:18:02    2289670

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "Giles is right in my opinion. Man city lost 9 league games, almost a quarter of their games. And have failed miserably in Champions League. If he was that good, he wouldnt go missing so often."
For me Johnny should have had a go at Guardiola, not De Bruyne. He criticised De Bruyne's attitude, that he was shouting at other players. Imagine that? A player shouting at his colleagues to try and get them to put more him. He didn't play in 3 of those 9 losses and wasn't great in the other 6 in fairness. But the rest, bar Ederson and an injury-prone Aguero in the City team aren't close to De Bruyne's level, no wonder he gets frustrated. A lot of the failings there are from Guardiola's 'philosophy'. Not one of his defenders can defend, he stuck a 35 year old centre mid in to centre back in some games leaving Dé Bruyne less of a threat in midfield. Guardiola refuses to buy good defenders and has no-one near Aguero's class to replace him. It's not like he doesn't have the cash to do that. I think he's been found out in the Premier League but I wouldn't fault De Bruyne fir Manchester City's other deficiencies. Blame Guardiola.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5874 - 29/08/2020 16:46:45    2289679

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "For me Johnny should have had a go at Guardiola, not De Bruyne. He criticised De Bruyne's attitude, that he was shouting at other players. Imagine that? A player shouting at his colleagues to try and get them to put more him. He didn't play in 3 of those 9 losses and wasn't great in the other 6 in fairness. But the rest, bar Ederson and an injury-prone Aguero in the City team aren't close to De Bruyne's level, no wonder he gets frustrated. A lot of the failings there are from Guardiola's 'philosophy'. Not one of his defenders can defend, he stuck a 35 year old centre mid in to centre back in some games leaving Dé Bruyne less of a threat in midfield. Guardiola refuses to buy good defenders and has no-one near Aguero's class to replace him. It's not like he doesn't have the cash to do that. I think he's been found out in the Premier League but I wouldn't fault De Bruyne fir Manchester City's other deficiencies. Blame Guardiola."
Very harsh for anyone to expect De Bruyne to be brilliant in every game. He was good in most of the games I watched. Giles has been having a go at him for the a few years now and seems to be doubling down. De Bruyne would make any team in the world.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6813 - 29/08/2020 17:35:59    2289684

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Very harsh for anyone to expect De Bruyne to be brilliant in every game. He was good in most of the games I watched. Giles has been having a go at him for the a few years now and seems to be doubling down. De Bruyne would make any team in the world."
Exactly, you wouldn't judge De Bruyne on a few poor games and overall he's City's best player. Perhaps Giles deserves similar allowances aswell and his overall knowledge of the game is far superior to the rest of the team on panel and shouldn't be judged on one players assessment.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1530 - 30/08/2020 12:22:18    2289751

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Very harsh for anyone to expect De Bruyne to be brilliant in every game. He was good in most of the games I watched. Giles has been having a go at him for the a few years now and seems to be doubling down. De Bruyne would make any team in the world."
Exactly, you wouldn't judge De Bruyne on a few poor games and overall he's City's best player. Perhaps Giles deserves similar allowances aswell and his overall knowledge of the game is far superior to the rest of the team on panel and shouldn't be judged on one players assessment.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1530 - 30/08/2020 12:22:18    2289752

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Replying To catch22:  "Exactly, you wouldn't judge De Bruyne on a few poor games and overall he's City's best player. Perhaps Giles deserves similar allowances aswell and his overall knowledge of the game is far superior to the rest of the team on panel and shouldn't be judged on one players assessment."
It isn't just that. He has stated many many times like a broken record that the idea of a specialised holding midfielder is nonsense. Over and over. He is stuck in the past.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6813 - 30/08/2020 14:06:47    2289762

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "It isn't just that. He has stated many many times like a broken record that the idea of a specialised holding midfielder is nonsense. Over and over. He is stuck in the past."
With his knowledge of the game perhaps he has seen enough to have formed that opinion.
Who would be better than him at RTE ?

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1530 - 30/08/2020 14:14:58    2289763

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Replying To catch22:  "With his knowledge of the game perhaps he has seen enough to have formed that opinion.
Who would be better than him at RTE ?"
Damn near everyone at this stage. In fact you could probably throw Spillane in for one Champions League between two non-British teams and he'd be more competent than Giles!

eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 121 - 30/08/2020 15:11:34    2289769

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