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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Giles has spent the last few years rubbishing any formation except a 442, and has also said the concept of a holding midfielder is a load of nonsense. I get that you like him. I used to but you are being very kind here.

Brolly speaks like the lad in the pub? I would hate to drink in your local. Brolly is scripted. His own script, pre rehearsed lines for maximum impact. As I said, self promotion is his only interest. Get him back on for all I care if it stops people talking about him as if he was the best thing since sliced bread. O Rourke talks a lot more sense than Brolly but isn't much craic. The banter aspect of Brolly is what people liked. Much like Dunphy when he was on the soccer panel."
In fairness I don't think anyone tuned into it for the talk of great tactics rather I think it was the banter that they created, they might go the whole of the program without discussing any of the tactics that the teams were using, if they did it was by accident. If you wanted tactics go to Sky where the boys were not much craic but at least discussed what was happening in the game. Joe will get a following because he can articulate controversial topics better than anyone else - its reality TV!

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 26/08/2020 10:29:52    2289180

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Replying To zinny:  "In fairness I don't think anyone tuned into it for the talk of great tactics rather I think it was the banter that they created, they might go the whole of the program without discussing any of the tactics that the teams were using, if they did it was by accident. If you wanted tactics go to Sky where the boys were not much craic but at least discussed what was happening in the game. Joe will get a following because he can articulate controversial topics better than anyone else - its reality TV!"
Listen I used to find him entertaining but since the Cavanagh incident he stepped up the controversy both on TV and in his newspaper columns. It was cringe at times. His column used to be quite good a few years back. Now it's made up stories and personal attacks on the same people. Always an agenda.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 26/08/2020 11:00:52    2289189

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Replying To catch22:  "I know what you're saying but couldn't you also apply that to those in RTE who suppress and notions that they cannot control and if you're not prepared to stick to the script then you cannot speak at all. They are the the unheard loudmouths if you like."
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Can you image if everyone who appear on national t.v. were allowed to spout hate, promote violence, make racists overtures etc. etc. There would be calls to shut it down. The producers have the right to script the program. I am sure Brolly or anyone else get paid, have a contract and know the guide lines before they accept the job. If you do not like them move on.This guy shouting over people talking, got way too much rope and eventually hung himself. Anyway people who do this lose their audience except for a few fanatics like themselves.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 26/08/2020 15:00:40    2289234

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Replying To catch22:  "I know what you're saying but couldn't you also apply that to those in RTE who suppress and notions that they cannot control and if you're not prepared to stick to the script then you cannot speak at all. They are the the unheard loudmouths if you like."
An excellent post, well done.

Just now, it's said Joe Brolly has been approached about signing up with BBC Northern Ireland to cover gaelic games in a revamped BBC NI panel. The GAA are believed to be considering the possibility of allowing BBC NI to screen Ulster championship games live even if RTE and SKY TV had been assigned coverage. Should be interesting, Joe coming up against his former collegues / pundits in a ratings war. Not bad for a TV pundit who was dismissed by RTE, although in fairness he was snapped up straight away by eir, and now he is about to sign up with BBC NI.
It's plain to be seen some of the negative posts here about Joe's punditry comments / rants are coming from one or two posters with historic hang up's about something unflattering or critical comments Joe might have passed about their own county (s) and find a level of difficulty with this, you can almost smell the smoke coming from their lap top keyboard (s) banging out the repeated rhetoric that would put the failure RTE's Sunday game to present and deliver a reasonable and entertaining show affectionately known as the "Sunday Game"at the feet of Joe Brolly.
It can be said that some of Joe's criticisms are construct, professional and honest, while one or two others are negative, destructive driven.
Personally I wouldn't like to see RTE sport, / the Sunday game going down the tubes, but unless it's restructured where else can it go.
This post is meant to come across as being open, honest and respectful.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 26/08/2020 15:32:41    2289237

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Replying To Canuck:  "That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Can you image if everyone who appear on national t.v. were allowed to spout hate, promote violence, make racists overtures etc. etc. There would be calls to shut it down. The producers have the right to script the program. I am sure Brolly or anyone else get paid, have a contract and know the guide lines before they accept the job. If you do not like them move on.This guy shouting over people talking, got way too much rope and eventually hung himself. Anyway people who do this lose their audience except for a few fanatics like themselves."
The point , which you obviously missed was not as you so dramatically put it " Can you image if everyone who appear on national t.v. were allowed to spout hate, promote violence, make racists overtures etc. etc. ".
It was that you not be allowed express a different viewpoint other than that which is premeditated. Nobody is suggesting any of those silly scenarios you came up with.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 26/08/2020 15:33:27    2289238

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Is the Sunday Game so conservative and boring because of RTE or the GAA or both? What's good for the Sunday Game is good for both. You'd think someone in RTÉ could see how bland it was getting even when Joe Brolly was on some live games or nightshows. He went on tangents too much for me but at least injected some life into debates. Surely when he left the writing was on the wall, how boring and lifeless it is. Why don't they vary their 'RTE time served non-player presenter and established player or ex-player analyst' template? I realise Joanne Cantwell fits both categories, she sounds more relaxed on radio and maybe if she was on Sky with a less rigid script she might look better, free to speak her mind. Why don't they get a few table bangers on, diehard supporters, journalists, people from other sports in to inject a bit of life to these programmes. What young person, with so may other TV distractions, would sit down and watch live games or the highlights show and not turn it off within a few minutes of usually boring analysis? I'm surprised that some podcasts like GAA Hour or Balls.ie or other independent GAA people don't live stream some alternative to the Sunday Game. Does the Sunday Game know it's 2020?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 26/08/2020 16:51:19    2289249

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Replying To supersub15:  "An excellent post, well done.

Just now, it's said Joe Brolly has been approached about signing up with BBC Northern Ireland to cover gaelic games in a revamped BBC NI panel. The GAA are believed to be considering the possibility of allowing BBC NI to screen Ulster championship games live even if RTE and SKY TV had been assigned coverage. Should be interesting, Joe coming up against his former collegues / pundits in a ratings war. Not bad for a TV pundit who was dismissed by RTE, although in fairness he was snapped up straight away by eir, and now he is about to sign up with BBC NI.
It's plain to be seen some of the negative posts here about Joe's punditry comments / rants are coming from one or two posters with historic hang up's about something unflattering or critical comments Joe might have passed about their own county (s) and find a level of difficulty with this, you can almost smell the smoke coming from their lap top keyboard (s) banging out the repeated rhetoric that would put the failure RTE's Sunday game to present and deliver a reasonable and entertaining show affectionately known as the "Sunday Game"at the feet of Joe Brolly.
It can be said that some of Joe's criticisms are construct, professional and honest, while one or two others are negative, destructive driven.
Personally I wouldn't like to see RTE sport, / the Sunday game going down the tubes, but unless it's restructured where else can it go.
This post is meant to come across as being open, honest and respectful."
You see that's where you are wrong also. I am not some apologist for Mayo and have been critical and called a spade a spade on here. To suggest I don't like Brolly because he gave Mayo a hard time is laughable. He did a full 360 on Mayo for reasons not known to most viewers. The man is entertaining but absolutely full of stories that are not true. He uses his column for the same thing. Spouting speculation and causing controversy. I couldn't give a toss who criticises Mayo once they don't have a hidden agenda.

Joe, like Dunphy and so many others on modern tv and radio are saying something for a reaction. To keep themselves in the headlines. Call me old fashioned but I was never a fan of attention seekers.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 26/08/2020 17:07:45    2289250

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Replying To catch22:  "The point , which you obviously missed was not as you so dramatically put it " Can you image if everyone who appear on national t.v. were allowed to spout hate, promote violence, make racists overtures etc. etc. ".
It was that you not be allowed express a different viewpoint other than that which is premeditated. Nobody is suggesting any of those silly scenarios you came up with."
Di you work for RTE as an analyst or even as a script writer?how do you know they're not not allowed to express a different viewpoint?

achara (Monaghan) - Posts: 561 - 26/08/2020 18:25:55    2289270

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "You see that's where you are wrong also. I am not some apologist for Mayo and have been critical and called a spade a spade on here. To suggest I don't like Brolly because he gave Mayo a hard time is laughable. He did a full 360 on Mayo for reasons not known to most viewers. The man is entertaining but absolutely full of stories that are not true. He uses his column for the same thing. Spouting speculation and causing controversy. I couldn't give a toss who criticises Mayo once they don't have a hidden agenda.

Joe, like Dunphy and so many others on modern tv and radio are saying something for a reaction. To keep themselves in the headlines. Call me old fashioned but I was never a fan of attention seekers."
Pretty much mirrors my thoughts. Also, I like discussing and hearing about the tactical side of things, how teams are set up, matchups etc. I know some people find that boring and prefer the sensationalism and banter style that Brolly offered and that is fair enough. There was no substance to it however, and I have no interest in watching it personally, simple as that.

There is virtually no county he hasn't tried to offend in some way over the years and very few took him seriously so trying to make out that not being a fan can only be down to pettiness and parochialism is really clutching at straws.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 26/08/2020 18:50:30    2289274

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Yeah, I knew that just forgot, as I clarified in a later post.

Winning Streak itself is not the worst RTE program with a target demographic north of 40 tbf, but I still want the show to appeal to younger viewers like the presenting and production styles of British game shows, or else I wouldn't be sad to see it bite the dust (regardless of how it's being funded)
eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 101 - 25/08/2020 14:52:42You cant compare RTE with many British channels who's resources are far bigger
What british game shows do you want RTE to echo?

Younger audiences don't bring in as much ad revenue as an older audience, they don't have their disposable income.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5748 - 25/08/2020 15:09:30 What do you call young audience and what do you see as an older audience?

You have a point, because the very nature of Winning Streak with it's cheesy,community values may be hard to ever make attractive to younger audiences (at least in modern times), compared to say Millionaire which can cater for all age demographics (even children, to some extent).
eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 101 - 25/08/2020 15:24:25Everyone who gets on winning streak gets to win something. Not same with Millionaire.
Winning streak is bit cheesy but so what. Its like many day time tv shows in UK/US that give money away.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3496 - 26/08/2020 20:26:16    2289280

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Replying To achara:  "Di you work for RTE as an analyst or even as a script writer?how do you know they're not not allowed to express a different viewpoint?"
It's pretty widely known that was a big part of why Brolly parted ways and wouldn't agree to the terms RTE were imposing. If I worked for RTE as a scriptwriter I'd hardly be knocking the idea now would I. It's not a scriptwriter in the traditional sense it's more a discussion and agreement on a framework and what can and cannot be discussed as I understand it
I'm not talking about letting someone do any of the daft stuff that another poster somehow came up with but purely being able to take a discussion in a different direction if it's warranted and not what we generally get now which is pretty bland and colourless. As I mentioned previously, it's a bit hypocritical of some who want managers to speak their mind while giving out when someone goes on a bit of a rant.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 26/08/2020 20:44:02    2289282

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Replying To achara:  "Di you work for RTE as an analyst or even as a script writer?how do you know they're not not allowed to express a different viewpoint?"
It's pretty widely known that was a big part of why Brolly parted ways and wouldn't agree to the terms RTE were imposing. If I worked for RTE as a scriptwriter I'd hardly be knocking the idea now would I. It's not a scriptwriter in the traditional sense it's more a discussion and agreement on a framework and what can and cannot be discussed as I understand it
I'm not talking about letting someone do any of the daft stuff that another poster somehow came up with but purely being able to take a discussion in a different direction if it's warranted and not what we generally get now which is pretty bland and colourless. As I mentioned previously, it's a bit hypocritical of some who want managers to speak their mind while giving out when someone goes on a bit of a rant.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 26/08/2020 20:44:02    2289283

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Replying To catch22:  "It's pretty widely known that was a big part of why Brolly parted ways and wouldn't agree to the terms RTE were imposing. If I worked for RTE as a scriptwriter I'd hardly be knocking the idea now would I. It's not a scriptwriter in the traditional sense it's more a discussion and agreement on a framework and what can and cannot be discussed as I understand it
I'm not talking about letting someone do any of the daft stuff that another poster somehow came up with but purely being able to take a discussion in a different direction if it's warranted and not what we generally get now which is pretty bland and colourless. As I mentioned previously, it's a bit hypocritical of some who want managers to speak their mind while giving out when someone goes on a bit of a rant."
How do you know what's allowed and what's not?and if that is the case anyway i can't blame them, brolly had his own agendas and personally attacked people which often took a lot of time away from the game that was being played and analysed!

achara (Monaghan) - Posts: 561 - 26/08/2020 21:16:44    2289285

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Replying To achara:  "How do you know what's allowed and what's not?and if that is the case anyway i can't blame them, brolly had his own agendas and personally attacked people which often took a lot of time away from the game that was being played and analysed!"
What are these agendas you mention and who are they against and why ?

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 26/08/2020 21:35:03    2289286

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Replying To achara:  "How do you know what's allowed and what's not?and if that is the case anyway i can't blame them, brolly had his own agendas and personally attacked people which often took a lot of time away from the game that was being played and analysed!"
What are these agendas you mention and who are they against and why ?

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 26/08/2020 21:35:03    2289287

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Replying To catch22:  "It's pretty widely known that was a big part of why Brolly parted ways and wouldn't agree to the terms RTE were imposing. If I worked for RTE as a scriptwriter I'd hardly be knocking the idea now would I. It's not a scriptwriter in the traditional sense it's more a discussion and agreement on a framework and what can and cannot be discussed as I understand it
I'm not talking about letting someone do any of the daft stuff that another poster somehow came up with but purely being able to take a discussion in a different direction if it's warranted and not what we generally get now which is pretty bland and colourless. As I mentioned previously, it's a bit hypocritical of some who want managers to speak their mind while giving out when someone goes on a bit of a rant."
Very much doubt there was a script. I do think that they tried to reign Joe in a bit and presumably they spoke to him about his on screen behaviour a number of times before they made the decision to move on without him.

Any decent live sports show will have a broad framework / guidelines set out by the producers. I really don't see anything wrong with that. It should be pretty simple, discuss the game being played, stay on topic, keep emotion and bias out of it, be respectful of your presenter and counterparts and have a bit of friendly banter. That was becoming impossible while Joe was in studio unfortunately because he wanted to be talking all the time. Michael Lyster kind of let him off over the years but Joanne Cantwell regularly challenged his behaviour once she got the job and it led to some very uncomfortable exchanges between them. One or the other had to go in the end as it really wasn't working.

If people really need to hear what he has to say on all matters football that badly then a weekly podcast or YouTube show would be a much better platform. He could talk as much and about whatever he likes then.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 27/08/2020 10:47:16    2289330

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Very much doubt there was a script. I do think that they tried to reign Joe in a bit and presumably they spoke to him about his on screen behaviour a number of times before they made the decision to move on without him.

Any decent live sports show will have a broad framework / guidelines set out by the producers. I really don't see anything wrong with that. It should be pretty simple, discuss the game being played, stay on topic, keep emotion and bias out of it, be respectful of your presenter and counterparts and have a bit of friendly banter. That was becoming impossible while Joe was in studio unfortunately because he wanted to be talking all the time. Michael Lyster kind of let him off over the years but Joanne Cantwell regularly challenged his behaviour once she got the job and it led to some very uncomfortable exchanges between them. One or the other had to go in the end as it really wasn't working.

If people really need to hear what he has to say on all matters football that badly then a weekly podcast or YouTube show would be a much better platform. He could talk as much and about whatever he likes then."
Yes , it's not scriptwriting in the general understanding of the term as I say and yes I'm sure sports shows do have some discussion and guidelines. I do though think the show in its current form for all this is bland and not that entertaining. Sure, Brolly was erratic and would go off and bring things in a different direction and he would go overboard on occasion. You do however need I think to be able to hear people speak their mind to some degree and this is more and more being stamped out which for me is taking something away from viewers while others I know think it's better. Again , as I mentioned, I find it hypocritical of people knocking managers and players for saying nothing but bland and predictable responses when interviewed yet are happy to see this kind of format in the show. Other sports shows are allowed be a bit more off the cuff and we regularly see more biting comments in the written media but RTE are seemingly content to reign in any ideas other than the safe and bland stuff the show seems to have become.
The kind of comments made by Brolly and indeed Spillane previously were spur of the moment and showed what the individual was actually feeling and maybe you don't want that. These rants if you like will not be the subject of discussion with the current format but perhaps that's what people want more of.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 27/08/2020 13:56:00    2289360

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Very much doubt there was a script. I do think that they tried to reign Joe in a bit and presumably they spoke to him about his on screen behaviour a number of times before they made the decision to move on without him.

Any decent live sports show will have a broad framework / guidelines set out by the producers. I really don't see anything wrong with that. It should be pretty simple, discuss the game being played, stay on topic, keep emotion and bias out of it, be respectful of your presenter and counterparts and have a bit of friendly banter. That was becoming impossible while Joe was in studio unfortunately because he wanted to be talking all the time. Michael Lyster kind of let him off over the years but Joanne Cantwell regularly challenged his behaviour once she got the job and it led to some very uncomfortable exchanges between them. One or the other had to go in the end as it really wasn't working.

If people really need to hear what he has to say on all matters football that badly then a weekly podcast or YouTube show would be a much better platform. He could talk as much and about whatever he likes then."
As a multi sports fan who follows miltiple sports watching a range of programmes the Sunday game programme in it's current format is the most scripted sports show on any platform. The element of script you mention is there to ensure presenters/guests don't breach legal obligations. There will be areas/live investigstions/sensitive issues in that sport that they will not be allowed to discuss.

However a good presenter will be there to anchor the show; stay neutral and allow their guests as experts in their field to analyse and critique the games. They are usually allowed an open mic to have a discussion and the presenter will prompt the discussion if required. They'll step in only if they feel the need to; watch Roy Keane on Sky Sports they sit back let him loose as it's good television, banter and he is usually correct; there is sometimes even fiery but controllable debates. Their GAA coverage does the same and I've seen Canavan getting annoyed with other guests when he disagrees.

The presenter doesn't mind Roy being the star of the show as his job is to facilitate a good programme and the likes of Roy helps him and in terms of GAA they don't mind Canavan being the star of their coverage.

The Sky presenter did step in when Neville got political last year which is fair enough. The current Sunday game doesn't need guests certainly not the amount they have. The reason being they're not alllowed to talk, it is so easy to notice when they even hint at going off script they are shouted over immediately and told to stop. The script is no more than buzz words and certainly isn't conversation or opinions. It's the most superficial sports show on any UK/Irish platform which is sad as the GAA is probably the most passionate sports we have, the Sunday Game doesn't reflect that and is currently a show that needs some energy.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 27/08/2020 14:41:47    2289369

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"Any decent live sports show will have a broad framework / guidelines set out by the producers. I really don't see anything wrong with that. It should be pretty simple, discuss the game being played, stay on topic, keep emotion and bias out of it, be respectful of your presenter and counterparts and have a bit of friendly banter."

I disagree with you completely GeniusGerry on this. Emotion and bias create tension/controversy and ultimately entertainment ... at least I would prefer to be entertained and hopefully enlightened into the bargain (but entertainment would come streets ahead of enlightenment for me). That's what gets people talking and arguing in the pub when they're watching the coverage.
I think that most of RTÉ's GAA coverage over the years has stuck to your formula and that this has made it as dull as dishwater. Most of the pundits over the years have been treading on eggshells for fear of causing offence (and even then plenty of offence has been caused). We're a very sensitive sports community.
Compare and contrast the GAA punditry with the soccer. Dunphy/Giles and later on Brady created many unforgettable moments because of their willingness to speak their minds and in general, Bill O'Herlihy provided them with the framework for them to do this (often acting the gombeen to help develop the debate). Before Dunphy/Giles, nobody who had BBC/ITV available watched RTÉ for soccer coverage as their production values were so much lower and the punditry was at least as bad as what the English channels had to offer.
I think that Brolly tried to emulate the Dunphy role and was somewhat successful in doing this but this rocked the boat far too much for a much more conservative production team than the soccer had ... and a much more sensitive audience. I remember Michael Lyster visibly squirming on several occasions as if his Mammy mightn't approve of this talk .... "right Joe, we need to go to an ad break", etc.
The thing about Brolly is that everyone has an opinion about him. He's probably the most mentioned pundit on this thread. I think that he's a massive asset to have in punditry but that he needs a well managed structure, a relaxed host and fellow pundits who were able to put him in his place when he started going off the point and spouting nonsense ... but I agree with the other posters that pundits should be encouraged to show emotion, to be controversial, to show bias ... even if that means falling out with one another on air. It's showbiz baby

DubSanIarthar (Dublin) - Posts: 19 - 27/08/2020 15:41:49    2289378

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Replying To DubSanIarthar:  ""Any decent live sports show will have a broad framework / guidelines set out by the producers. I really don't see anything wrong with that. It should be pretty simple, discuss the game being played, stay on topic, keep emotion and bias out of it, be respectful of your presenter and counterparts and have a bit of friendly banter."

I disagree with you completely GeniusGerry on this. Emotion and bias create tension/controversy and ultimately entertainment ... at least I would prefer to be entertained and hopefully enlightened into the bargain (but entertainment would come streets ahead of enlightenment for me). That's what gets people talking and arguing in the pub when they're watching the coverage.
I think that most of RTÉ's GAA coverage over the years has stuck to your formula and that this has made it as dull as dishwater. Most of the pundits over the years have been treading on eggshells for fear of causing offence (and even then plenty of offence has been caused). We're a very sensitive sports community.
Compare and contrast the GAA punditry with the soccer. Dunphy/Giles and later on Brady created many unforgettable moments because of their willingness to speak their minds and in general, Bill O'Herlihy provided them with the framework for them to do this (often acting the gombeen to help develop the debate). Before Dunphy/Giles, nobody who had BBC/ITV available watched RTÉ for soccer coverage as their production values were so much lower and the punditry was at least as bad as what the English channels had to offer.
I think that Brolly tried to emulate the Dunphy role and was somewhat successful in doing this but this rocked the boat far too much for a much more conservative production team than the soccer had ... and a much more sensitive audience. I remember Michael Lyster visibly squirming on several occasions as if his Mammy mightn't approve of this talk .... "right Joe, we need to go to an ad break", etc.
The thing about Brolly is that everyone has an opinion about him. He's probably the most mentioned pundit on this thread. I think that he's a massive asset to have in punditry but that he needs a well managed structure, a relaxed host and fellow pundits who were able to put him in his place when he started going off the point and spouting nonsense ... but I agree with the other posters that pundits should be encouraged to show emotion, to be controversial, to show bias ... even if that means falling out with one another on air. It's showbiz baby"
I enjoyed reading your post; 100% correct as well! I do wonder if certain counties are more insecure than others. We know the media favour some counties and don't tend to be over critical or honest about them. The start of the 2009 All Ireland football Final being the perfect example of this. The media love Dublin but Dublin I reckon more than any other county like banter and are well able for different opinions. I'm not sure our friends in other counties quite want the same honesty which may be the reason having the most popular GAA shows heavily scripted suits them, it's easier to control what they want or don't want highlighted.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 27/08/2020 16:46:04    2289388

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