National Forum

Straight Knockout In SFC, Advantage Who?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To TheUsername:  "Thats fine, he was a good prospect, he did well against other teenagers his age, the game is littered with good prospects that never bore fruit, im pointing out the assumption of him being "one of the best players in Ireland" by now - when he never played a senior intercouty game is a bit of a reach.

Jumping from being a good minor to being better then seen it, done it, never beaten in the championship and put your medals on the table Brian Fenton is just mad. Its like saying Jim Stynes was a better midiflder then Jack O Shea (Well now that you mention it). ;)"
Given how quickly he progressed down under I don't think it's a reach to say he'd be one of the best players in the country at all. He was the best underage player I ever saw before Clifford and is now a genuine star in the AFL, making the Geelong first team almost straight away when he went down there a few years ago. I find it hard to believe he'd have fallen off the earth if he'd stayed at home.

Fair enough to say you can't compare him to Fenton but he is certainly of that caliber.

What's done is done now and he is gone so it's next man up.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1961 - 29/06/2020 16:34:39    2282266

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "There's optimism and then there is delusion. I've seen galway this year. And trust me dubs would wipe the floor with them , and I say that as someone who has always had a soft spot for galway football."
I presume you also think that Dublin will wipe the floor with Meath?

the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 435 - 29/06/2020 16:55:05    2282270

Link

Replying To Young_gael:  "A lot of wishful thinking here DonegalAtlantic. This is Kerry we're talking about here; dont ever write them off on the Gaelic football pitch even for a fraction of a second. I dont mean to be disrespectful but if Michael Murphy was out of that Donegal team, they are no longer Earth-shakers. Its a measure of just how good he is and how integral he is to his team. There is promise to Donegal no doubt about it and theyre a good, very good team. but it's here-say at the moment. Your whole tone reminds me a lot of the way Meath people grew to speak, including of Kerry after prolonged time at the top. Ultimately after time had passed, the time passed. Yours will as well."
Donegal have brought a lot to football in the last decade but I think this is a very realistic post. Donegal appear to have players coming through but have they been proven as the very top players required to win consistent Ulster or compete for All Irelands without Murphy etc? I'd agree if Murphy was taken out of the Donegal team would they fall right back into the Ulster pack and struggle to remain around Div 1, top of Div 2?

We don't know the answer but one guarantee is Ulster in particular has a habit of unearthing golden eras followed very quickly by a crash when other counties start developing excellent teams again. There is 1 or 2 Ulster counties who have had a difficult decade appearing to be on the verge of pushing themselves back into the top 6 - 8 teams in the country and who knows after that. It isn't a surprise as we've seen this a lot in the past. The top top players are hard to find and then almost impossible to replace.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 712 - 29/06/2020 17:02:45    2282273

Link

Replying To the_walls:  "I presume you also think that Dublin will wipe the floor with Meath?"
Nah we will beat them.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17037 - 29/06/2020 21:18:23    2282309

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "There's optimism and then there is delusion. I've seen galway this year. And trust me dubs would wipe the floor with them , and I say that as someone who has always had a soft spot for galway football."
i can guarentee you one thing MR Royal Dunne
The dubs wont be wiping the floor with galway
We are gonna give them a good rattle
Mr p joyce will see to that

rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1216 - 30/06/2020 08:18:03    2282335

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "Nah we will beat them."
Nothing surer . Meath are favourites for the All Ireland this year .

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1657 - 30/06/2020 09:29:39    2282337

Link

Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Given how quickly he progressed down under I don't think it's a reach to say he'd be one of the best players in the country at all. He was the best underage player I ever saw before Clifford and is now a genuine star in the AFL, making the Geelong first team almost straight away when he went down there a few years ago. I find it hard to believe he'd have fallen off the earth if he'd stayed at home.

Fair enough to say you can't compare him to Fenton but he is certainly of that caliber.

What's done is done now and he is gone so it's next man up."
Gerry, you mentioned the 2014 semi-final and Mark O'Connor's role. My memory is of Cian Hanley running the game until he was stretchered off close to half-time. Mayo went in ahead after the first half but the Kerry midfield got control in the second with Hanley gone. Killian Spillane was your best performer and troubled the Mayo defence every time he got the ball. Hanley's Australian prospects, even though he went, were destroyed by the injury and I'm not sure if he's currently in the Mayo panel, though he seemed a standout prospect as a minor.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2202 - 30/06/2020 14:10:55    2282371

Link

Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Given how quickly he progressed down under I don't think it's a reach to say he'd be one of the best players in the country at all. He was the best underage player I ever saw before Clifford and is now a genuine star in the AFL, making the Geelong first team almost straight away when he went down there a few years ago. I find it hard to believe he'd have fallen off the earth if he'd stayed at home.

Fair enough to say you can't compare him to Fenton but he is certainly of that caliber.

What's done is done now and he is gone so it's next man up."
Hi when you consider Jack Barry has marked fentin out of it the last 3-4 times they met Gerry it's not too far to push to say mark would be better because he'd be a lot better than Jack Barry in fairness.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11772 - 30/06/2020 14:31:19    2282375

Link

Replying To Pericles:  "Gerry, you mentioned the 2014 semi-final and Mark O'Connor's role. My memory is of Cian Hanley running the game until he was stretchered off close to half-time. Mayo went in ahead after the first half but the Kerry midfield got control in the second with Hanley gone. Killian Spillane was your best performer and troubled the Mayo defence every time he got the ball. Hanley's Australian prospects, even though he went, were destroyed by the injury and I'm not sure if he's currently in the Mayo panel, though he seemed a standout prospect as a minor."
It was actually another poster that brought that up, I don't remember that game very well if I'm honest so won't dispute what you are saying.

I don't know a whole pile about Hanley, he really only came on my radar when I started following the progress of the Irish lads in the AFL. He hasn't looked great since joining the Mayo setup, a serious injury at that age can really throw a young player off course. I assumed he would be in the panel at the very least for the upcoming championship.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1961 - 30/06/2020 14:41:42    2282379

Link

Replying To catch22:  "Nothing surer . Meath are favourites for the All Ireland this year ."
Exactly:)

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17037 - 30/06/2020 17:16:52    2282406

Link

Replying To GeniusGerry:  "It was actually another poster that brought that up, I don't remember that game very well if I'm honest so won't dispute what you are saying.

I don't know a whole pile about Hanley, he really only came on my radar when I started following the progress of the Irish lads in the AFL. He hasn't looked great since joining the Mayo setup, a serious injury at that age can really throw a young player off course. I assumed he would be in the panel at the very least for the upcoming championship."
Apologies for the misdirection Gerry....

I'd imagine if Cian Hanley went over fit he'd likely still be there with the likes of Mark O'Connor. His brother Pearce must now be the longest Irish player out there and even at 31 he'd be a tremendous addition to Mayo if he was to return. His presence could have made the difference over the last decade for us, but who knows. Hopefully the younger brother renews his appetite and gets over any fitness issues... certainly plenty of talent there.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2202 - 30/06/2020 18:14:17    2282419

Link

Replying To Pericles:  "Apologies for the misdirection Gerry....

I'd imagine if Cian Hanley went over fit he'd likely still be there with the likes of Mark O'Connor. His brother Pearce must now be the longest Irish player out there and even at 31 he'd be a tremendous addition to Mayo if he was to return. His presence could have made the difference over the last decade for us, but who knows. Hopefully the younger brother renews his appetite and gets over any fitness issues... certainly plenty of talent there."
No apology required, it was actually one of the Donegal lads that brought up Mark initially. As I have said I think it's time to draw a line under it. Some of his former club mates post on here and it's a bit of a sore point with them as you can imagine because they are a senior team that is competing for silverware after a long drought.

Yes the Hanleys were a tremendous loss to Mayo by all accounts. You can't blame anybody for going though. It's such a wonderful opportunity.

How do you see Mayo going in 2020? Is there another sting in their tail? Galway would be my tip for Connacht along with most others going by the predictions thread but Mayo are well capable of beating them on a given day. You'll need some of the young guns to take a big step forward though.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1961 - 30/06/2020 19:10:02    2282428

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Hi when you consider Jack Barry has marked fentin out of it the last 3-4 times they met Gerry it's not too far to push to say mark would be better because he'd be a lot better than Jack Barry in fairness."
Brian Fenton is the best midfielder in the country and will go down as one of the greats.Mark O Connor was a brilliant minor but we cant judge him as he has nt played senior.The best midfield minor i saw in years wad Tommy Walsh (Kerry) but never made it as a star midfielder at senior level albeit he did do well as a forward.Big difference between minor and senior

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 662 - 30/06/2020 23:26:12    2282455

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Hi when you consider Jack Barry has marked fentin out of it the last 3-4 times they met Gerry it's not too far to push to say mark would be better because he'd be a lot better than Jack Barry in fairness."
Jays , if only he had been on the Murchin lad Kerry might have an All Ireland. Hi , what Tommy ? ;)

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1657 - 01/07/2020 08:01:25    2282468

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Brian Fenton is the best midfielder in the country and will go down as one of the greats.Mark O Connor was a brilliant minor but we cant judge him as he has nt played senior.The best midfield minor i saw in years wad Tommy Walsh (Kerry) but never made it as a star midfielder at senior level albeit he did do well as a forward.Big difference between minor and senior"
Fentin is a very good midfielder (from good Kerry stock) playing on a very good team but Jack Barry has kept him quite the last 3-4 times they met and that's a fact.

I thought Tommy was a decent minor but you obviously haven't seen much if anything of Mark O'Connor where I and other Kerry people have, so you can take my word for it if Mark was back home fentin would only be the 3rd best midfielder in the country.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11772 - 01/07/2020 09:52:56    2282490

Link

Replying To GeniusGerry:  "No apology required, it was actually one of the Donegal lads that brought up Mark initially. As I have said I think it's time to draw a line under it. Some of his former club mates post on here and it's a bit of a sore point with them as you can imagine because they are a senior team that is competing for silverware after a long drought.

Yes the Hanleys were a tremendous loss to Mayo by all accounts. You can't blame anybody for going though. It's such a wonderful opportunity.

How do you see Mayo going in 2020? Is there another sting in their tail? Galway would be my tip for Connacht along with most others going by the predictions thread but Mayo are well capable of beating them on a given day. You'll need some of the young guns to take a big step forward though."
I think most people are right to go with Galway out of Connacht this year. There's more than a fair chance that by the time the championship kicks off Galway will have relieved Mayo of the league title and Div 1 status as a side-effect. That said we don't know what we'll have players-wise. Mattie Ruane will presumably be back (assuming he's not going to the AFL), as will Jason Doherty and maybe even Boyler. Fionn McDonagh is another who wasn't available for the league, but he had a good first season before that. It's all ifs and buts though, so the first we'll see what's in the tank will be the league game with Galway. Like every year with Mayo, you hope for the best and they usually give you something.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2202 - 01/07/2020 11:23:49    2282507

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Fentin is a very good midfielder (from good Kerry stock) playing on a very good team but Jack Barry has kept him quite the last 3-4 times they met and that's a fact.

I thought Tommy was a decent minor but you obviously haven't seen much if anything of Mark O'Connor where I and other Kerry people have, so you can take my word for it if Mark was back home fentin would only be the 3rd best midfielder in the country."
Most good athletes can keep a player quiet if their sole job is exactly that. I.e. Stick to him like glue for the whole 70 mins. We have lads at club level who do this job on the other team's best players. They're athletically capable of doing what's needed, but aren't the best footballers themselves. I remember Phil Neville doing a brilliant man-marking job on Vieira, when Vieira was at his peak. He didn't give him a second to breathe, but we all know which of them was by far the better player.
Fenton was still far more prominent in both of last year's All-Irelands than Barry in terms of getting on the ball, despite one of them solely having a 'stopper' role.
Fenton has contributed far more creatively than any other midfielder in the game over the last 5 years. He's also the best kicker of a ball in that position.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 879 - 01/07/2020 11:55:26    2282517

Link

Replying To WanPintWin:  "Most good athletes can keep a player quiet if their sole job is exactly that. I.e. Stick to him like glue for the whole 70 mins. We have lads at club level who do this job on the other team's best players. They're athletically capable of doing what's needed, but aren't the best footballers themselves. I remember Phil Neville doing a brilliant man-marking job on Vieira, when Vieira was at his peak. He didn't give him a second to breathe, but we all know which of them was by far the better player.
Fenton was still far more prominent in both of last year's All-Irelands than Barry in terms of getting on the ball, despite one of them solely having a 'stopper' role.
Fenton has contributed far more creatively than any other midfielder in the game over the last 5 years. He's also the best kicker of a ball in that position."
This is certainly true. Kerry always try to shut Fenton down when playing Dublin and have been reasonably successful at doing it. That might go back to 2015 when he caught Kerry somewhat by surprise and ran the show in the final.

Jack Barry is a very good midfielder in the making but not in Fentons league as a playmaker. I don't think even the most blinkered Kerry supporters would suggest that he is. That's the reason that Kerry are quite happy to let him do that job, if they cancel each other out is advantage to Kerry on paper, albeit one that hasn't made the difference to date.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1961 - 01/07/2020 12:21:54    2282521

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "Nah we will beat them."
Spot on royaldunne, can see us shocking the world this year, bring it on!!

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8583 - 01/07/2020 13:09:50    2282528

Link

Advantage the supporters!!!.. We might find out what we have been missing for the last few years.. No second chances, with teams not being able to afford 1 off day ... It could all spring a surprise as teams too wont have the full prep work done...

btw...Will travel to any corner of Ireland for a game, parched i am.. Wilson!!!!

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 449 - 01/07/2020 13:43:32    2282536

Link