National Forum

Is It Time To Bury Provincial Hurling Championships- At Senior Level

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The Provincial system doesn't suit well.

You have 6 in each Province but Kerry probably aren't as good as the 7th best team that would be in Leinster.

The Leinster championship isn't the Leinster championship, it's the All Ireland minus Munster.

I'd just think 12 teams and the best 12 teams should be in the top tier All Ireland.

I think the NHL is a bit silly now. So there's room for more games in the hurling round robin."
In reality the all Ireland is Munster, Leinster and Galway. With all due respect to Antrim, that has always been the case.
The imbalance in favour of inter county over club in the calendar is already bad enough without extending it further.
They need to co exist as neither can survive without the other. The inter county for revenue and promotion of the game to the widest possible audience. The club for it's community values and as the sole source of inter county players.

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 352 - 04/02/2020 11:34:02    2265049

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The Provincial system doesn't suit well.

You have 6 in each Province but Kerry probably aren't as good as the 7th best team that would be in Leinster.

The Leinster championship isn't the Leinster championship, it's the All Ireland minus Munster.

I'd just think 12 teams and the best 12 teams should be in the top tier All Ireland.

I think the NHL is a bit silly now. So there's room for more games in the hurling round robin."
Yes, one combined 12-team tourney would be great.
Even with separate NHL, why not keep the Prov groups and play all the Inter-Prov matches (so the 11 opponents over both tourneys are played once) - although I prefer a merger.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1826 - 04/02/2020 12:04:57    2265059

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Replying To Ej:  "In reality the all Ireland is Munster, Leinster and Galway. With all due respect to Antrim, that has always been the case.
The imbalance in favour of inter county over club in the calendar is already bad enough without extending it further.
They need to co exist as neither can survive without the other. The inter county for revenue and promotion of the game to the widest possible audience. The club for it's community values and as the sole source of inter county players."
Carlow, Laois, and Westmeath don't have enough clubs to form a squad with enough depth to take on the likes of Kilkenny and Wexford.

Kilkenny has 36 hurling clubs. One club per 2780 people. Carlow only has 10 clubs. One per 5600 people. Only 4 clubs compete in the senior championship compared to 12 in KK. They would need at least 18 - 20 clubs to be at a similar level. Intercounty draws its success from the clubs.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 04/02/2020 12:28:21    2265061

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Carlow, Laois, and Westmeath don't have enough clubs to form a squad with enough depth to take on the likes of Kilkenny and Wexford.

Kilkenny has 36 hurling clubs. One club per 2780 people. Carlow only has 10 clubs. One per 5600 people. Only 4 clubs compete in the senior championship compared to 12 in KK. They would need at least 18 - 20 clubs to be at a similar level. Intercounty draws its success from the clubs."
What's that got to do with the price of eggs?

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 352 - 04/02/2020 12:37:16    2265063

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Replying To Ej:  "In reality the all Ireland is Munster, Leinster and Galway. With all due respect to Antrim, that has always been the case.
The imbalance in favour of inter county over club in the calendar is already bad enough without extending it further.
They need to co exist as neither can survive without the other. The inter county for revenue and promotion of the game to the widest possible audience. The club for it's community values and as the sole source of inter county players."
I agree with that, I think both are improved by having 1 larger All Ireland competition.

Played from March to August with club breaks scheduled at regular intervals in between just seems like a healthier balance to me for both levels of the game.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3121 - 04/02/2020 12:53:24    2265073

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Why is Galway being in the Leinster championship such a big problem ?

It was good for Galway and the tournament structure and moves like this happen in many other tournaments and sports

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 04/02/2020 13:08:33    2265083

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Replying To Breezy:  "Why is Galway being in the Leinster championship such a big problem ?

It was good for Galway and the tournament structure and moves like this happen in many other tournaments and sports"
It's not. Where else can they go? Maybe Munster if the other Leinster teams become competitive.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 04/02/2020 13:37:22    2265094

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I agree with that, I think both are improved by having 1 larger All Ireland competition.

Played from March to August with club breaks scheduled at regular intervals in between just seems like a healthier balance to me for both levels of the game."
Inter county is already being played from January to August and they can't get meaningful club breaks in. So how would they from March to August

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 352 - 04/02/2020 13:41:29    2265097

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Replying To Breezy:  "Why is Galway being in the Leinster championship such a big problem ?

It was good for Galway and the tournament structure and moves like this happen in many other tournaments and sports"
Not often I would be in total agreement with a Limerick man but just for today I will make an exception.
Not just good for Galway, it has been good for Leinster hurling. Wexford and Dublin have had to raise their game just to have a competitive chance of making a provincial final.
Can any neutral observer remember a better Leinster provincial championship than last year?
Hopefully with Waterford not being cursed with injuries this year, Munster should be a humdinger too

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 352 - 04/02/2020 13:53:08    2265103

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Replying To Ej:  "Not often I would be in total agreement with a Limerick man but just for today I will make an exception.
Not just good for Galway, it has been good for Leinster hurling. Wexford and Dublin have had to raise their game just to have a competitive chance of making a provincial final.
Can any neutral observer remember a better Leinster provincial championship than last year?
Hopefully with Waterford not being cursed with injuries this year, Munster should be a humdinger too"
Seems some can't get used to it because it's not geographically correct but I agree it has raised the game across the Provence

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 04/02/2020 16:41:46    2265141

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Replying To Breezy:  "Seems some can't get used to it because it's not geographically correct but I agree it has raised the game across the Provence"
It has raised the game. I just think the game would be raised further by every team having 11 championship games.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3121 - 04/02/2020 21:31:31    2265226

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It has raised the game. I just think the game would be raised further by every team having 11 championship games."
So who would the 12 counties be?

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 352 - 04/02/2020 22:29:27    2265241

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It has raised the game. I just think the game would be raised further by every team having 11 championship games."
So who would the 12 counties be?

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 352 - 04/02/2020 22:29:38    2265242

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Replying To omahant:  "Yes, one combined 12-team tourney would be great.
Even with separate NHL, why not keep the Prov groups and play all the Inter-Prov matches (so the 11 opponents over both tourneys are played once) - although I prefer a merger."
American style conferences with cross over games are pointless nonsense I mean why have a group stage if everyone plays each other anyway better to just have a league and hurling wont get rid of the prov championship because the vast majority of fans love them

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 04/02/2020 22:48:30    2265248

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Replying To Ej:  "So who would the 12 counties be?"
The top 12 teams on merit.

There'd be promotion and relegation between tiers.

Right now it'd be the top 5 Munster teams, Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin, Wexford, Carlow, Laois and Westmeath.

12th team down, with maybe the 11th placed team playing off against the beaten tier 2 finalists.

Top 6 to All Ireland playoffs. A total of 14 potential game weeks.

The current system has 7 for the league, 4 for championship group stages and 4 playoff rounds.

You'd have 1 fewer round to schedule and every team is guaranteed 11 fixtures rather than 9.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3121 - 05/02/2020 06:00:12    2265261

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It has raised the game. I just think the game would be raised further by every team having 11 championship games."
Carlow, Laois, and Westmeath have all been hammered in the League. They simply don't have the resources to be competitive at the top level.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 05/02/2020 09:03:45    2265269

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Carlow, Laois, and Westmeath have all been hammered in the League. They simply don't have the resources to be competitive at the top level."
Pushing their head back down won't help them.
My earliest memories of Wexford were 10-12 years ago, a very low ebb which involved many bad beatings. Counties will never progress unless they are playing the top teams, eventually they will get up to that level.
Not helping them up, by playing these teams, will never help hurling flourish outside the traditional strongholds.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 868 - 05/02/2020 10:40:30    2265298

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Pushing their head back down won't help them.
My earliest memories of Wexford were 10-12 years ago, a very low ebb which involved many bad beatings. Counties will never progress unless they are playing the top teams, eventually they will get up to that level.
Not helping them up, by playing these teams, will never help hurling flourish outside the traditional strongholds."
Wexford's resurrection was down to a lot more than playing against the big boys. There has been huge investment in time and resources by individuals and clubs and the county board.
As someone who has stated that they played senior hurling for the last 3 years you would be aware of that.

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 352 - 05/02/2020 11:02:15    2265304

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Carlow, Laois, and Westmeath have all been hammered in the League. They simply don't have the resources to be competitive at the top level."
Wham's including 3 minnows to allow more teams to develop and avoid the '1 minnow yoyo'.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1826 - 05/02/2020 13:48:54    2265359

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Pushing their head back down won't help them.
My earliest memories of Wexford were 10-12 years ago, a very low ebb which involved many bad beatings. Counties will never progress unless they are playing the top teams, eventually they will get up to that level.
Not helping them up, by playing these teams, will never help hurling flourish outside the traditional strongholds."
It hasn't happened in over 100 years.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 05/02/2020 13:49:53    2265360

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