National Forum

Is It Time To Bury Provincial Hurling Championships- At Senior Level

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With it now being quite obvious that Cork, Tipp and Limerick are not going to be interested in winning the above any time soon, is now to time to bury them off in a kind of a 'house private, no flowers' fashion?

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2440 - 29/07/2019 10:59:35    2218039

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There is simply no advantage to winning the provincial championships anymore. Wexford and Limerick both gone when really the All Ireland final should be between them.

M Lyster (Antrim) - Posts: 425 - 29/07/2019 12:36:12    2218135

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well you know why it is being retained dont you.....

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3848 - 29/07/2019 15:10:36    2218253

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "With it now being quite obvious that Cork, Tipp and Limerick are not going to be interested in winning the above any time soon, is now to time to bury them off in a kind of a 'house private, no flowers' fashion?"
Why? This year it is because Wexford and Limerick were rusty from a lay off. Last year Galway were fatigued from playing a couple of replays. Wexford and Limerick were beaten in close games. Limerick didn't start well. Wexford didn't finish well. Neither narrative match each other so I don't think you can use the same excuse. Best teams on the day won. I would think that is a better narrative than looking for an excuse. And not a particularly good one.

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 512 - 29/07/2019 15:38:19    2218265

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Yes

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1589 - 29/07/2019 15:42:05    2218267

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yes they are dead and buried....look at the Leinster and Munster minor champs......to keep it going the GAA discriminate against the Galway Minors who had to beat the losers of both provinces to get into a semi....now KK are still alive after losing to Wexford and Galway and the law of averages is on their side for the final...complete joke. Galway should pull out of that competition until its fair.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1381 - 29/07/2019 15:59:05    2218276

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Not just at senior, at every level. It benefits every county to be playing teams from other provinces. I would argue the best thing that happened Galway at minor was the 3 game round robin against Kilkenny and Clare.
It also means that a dominant team (as KK did for years in Leinster) aren't just meeting and beating the same teams every year. It pulverised hurling in Wexford that KK were so dominant. It was our own fault, but Leinster hurling is only now recovering from it.
It also gives developing counties a serious chance of a tangible goal of serious progression - if Laois relegated Kilkenny or Wexford next year for example, the clamour for change would be huge and I'd have no doubt we'd have a 6 team Leinster.
The sun will still rise in the morning if we didn't have the provincial championships.
For me, I'd reduce the league to groups of 4, abolish the pre-season tournaments and have 2 x groups of 6, bottom team in each group plays the finalist of the Joe McDonagh cup. I don't care what anybody tells me, for Carlow to be relegated and Waterford not is simply unfair, elitist and as Brian Carroll says the top counties pulling up the ladder behind them.
I'd love an opening round of the championship trip to Limerick or Tipp or Clare, or a local derby v Waterford, or Cork and Kilkenny. Why not?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 868 - 29/07/2019 16:08:27    2218289

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I for one still love it.

Would be good to make a few tweeks in regards to the lay off but overall I think they are great in the new format

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 29/07/2019 16:26:02    2218308

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While it is a bit unfair that we are out after only losing once and Kilkenny are in the final after us beating them and Galway too that is the system that everyone was facing into at the start of the season. So no complaints. I love the provincial championships and if you asked any of the Wexford or Limerick panels did they want to give up their provincial titles for a possible (although not certain) advantage coming into the All Ireland series the answer would be no. Maybe the answer would be for the provincial winners to play the Joe Mcdonagh finalists and the runners up in each province play the 3rd place team from the other province. That way the provincial winners would have the same number of games played as whoever they play in the semis.....

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1056 - 29/07/2019 16:40:06    2218323

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There should be a 3 week gap from provincial finals to the semi-finals. The quarter-finals should be played on the week before the semi-finals allowing the provincial runners-up two weeks to recover after the provincial final but only a week then for the semi-final.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 29/07/2019 17:39:43    2218361

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Replying To SamandLiamSoon:  "Why? This year it is because Wexford and Limerick were rusty from a lay off. Last year Galway were fatigued from playing a couple of replays. Wexford and Limerick were beaten in close games. Limerick didn't start well. Wexford didn't finish well. Neither narrative match each other so I don't think you can use the same excuse. Best teams on the day won. I would think that is a better narrative than looking for an excuse. And not a particularly good one."
No, it is not an excuse. The 2019 competition is over for everybody except KK and Tipp. The system was brought in 2007 because Waterford got beaten by Limerick when the Munster final participants were paired very unfairly in the All Ireland Semi Final, after The Decies had played two Quarter Final games against Cork. It seemed like a good idea at the time but in practice it has worked poorly, at least for most Munster teams and I would say the same might be said of Dublin (13) or Wexford. I feel all we will have will be just phony Munster Finals from here on in. I certainly rightly or wrongly feel that Tipp made no serious attempt to win the Munster Final this year, going on yesterdays display, and their performances in earlier championship games and if that carry on is in vogue sure a Munster medal is valueless anyway. and as I said Cork, Tipp and Limerick, will probably all attempt to avoid Munster glory in which case the competition will gradually go the way of the Railway Cups and the old Oireacthas competitions. There has already been appallingly small attendances at some some Southern Provincial Finals in the past decade, so maybe the rot is slowly setting in anyway.
Viking, a fellow subscriber has made a very good suggestion above in saying the winners of provincial finals would also play a quarter final, as they did up to 2007. The idea has considerable merit.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2440 - 29/07/2019 19:13:51    2218394

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "yes they are dead and buried....look at the Leinster and Munster minor champs......to keep it going the GAA discriminate against the Galway Minors who had to beat the losers of both provinces to get into a semi....now KK are still alive after losing to Wexford and Galway and the law of averages is on their side for the final...complete joke. Galway should pull out of that competition until its fair."
Yes also a very good point although why Galway ever agreed to go into Leinster at senior level only initially has always baffled me. After all when they went into Munster long ago, in 59, they went in at all levels, but of course Munster hurling men were not so narrow minded as to stop the Galwegians coming in at the lower levels.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2440 - 29/07/2019 19:18:54    2218399

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Yes also a very good point although why Galway ever agreed to go into Leinster at senior level only initially has always baffled me. After all when they went into Munster long ago, in 59, they went in at all levels, but of course Munster hurling men were not so narrow minded as to stop the Galwegians coming in at the lower levels."
i dunno where you think the issue is with it in leinster though.
the system now without a doubt favours the 3 teams in the round robin

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3848 - 29/07/2019 19:41:32    2218408

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Yes also a very good point although why Galway ever agreed to go into Leinster at senior level only initially has always baffled me. After all when they went into Munster long ago, in 59, they went in at all levels, but of course Munster hurling men were not so narrow minded as to stop the Galwegians coming in at the lower levels."
Shame to say our county board were against Galway coming in at any level. Certainly I think their presence at Senior has brought our senior team on leaps and bounds and if our minors got to play them more often it would probably have meant theydve performed better than they did last weekend. Galway were battlehardened and our lads looked rusty for want of a better word. The break didnt do our lads any good when you compare it to the performance against Kilkenny in the Leinster final.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1056 - 29/07/2019 19:52:01    2218419

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "With it now being quite obvious that Cork, Tipp and Limerick are not going to be interested in winning the above any time soon, is now to time to bury them off in a kind of a 'house private, no flowers' fashion?"
It never effected Kilkenny. And before you say they were exceptional, even in 2014 and 2015 when other teams had caught up they were never flat in their semis after winning Leinster.

Maybe it's more to do with the training regieme and also not as used to Croke Park. Up to the Munster Champs to sort themselves out.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 29/07/2019 20:18:39    2218441

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "yes they are dead and buried....look at the Leinster and Munster minor champs......to keep it going the GAA discriminate against the Galway Minors who had to beat the losers of both provinces to get into a semi....now KK are still alive after losing to Wexford and Galway and the law of averages is on their side for the final...complete joke. Galway should pull out of that competition until its fair."
If Galway didn't get those two games against the other provincial losers wouldn't they really be cold heading into an All Ireland semi or final.

Bit like the Galway seniors. Not happy with the straight semi, playing in Leinster, playing in Munster.

Do ye want to go back to playing the Connacht final v Roscommon in hurling again?

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 29/07/2019 20:21:32    2218444

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The provincial championship's should have been consigned to history long ago. It's not going to happen any time soon though, too much money, prestige and more tellingly power involved. No way would the provincial council's relinquish their grip
So, for the foreseable they'll fudge, bodge, and fooster them into shape allowing all manner of permutations and contrivances to keep them breathing. Then at the end they'll slap that auld hogwash of the 'magic of a Munster/Leinster Final' over it and say sure hurling's thriving.

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 949 - 29/07/2019 20:32:45    2218455

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Replying To M Lyster:  "There is simply no advantage to winning the provincial championships anymore. Wexford and Limerick both gone when really the All Ireland final should be between them."
Rubbish.
Wexford beat Carlow in the round robin stage.
Limerick lost twice.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 29/07/2019 20:48:48    2218467

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A 4 week gap is simply too much. There should be no more that a 3 week gap. Fixtures have to fit that very simple directive.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 29/07/2019 21:48:06    2218495

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "It never effected Kilkenny. And before you say they were exceptional, even in 2014 and 2015 when other teams had caught up they were never flat in their semis after winning Leinster.

Maybe it's more to do with the training regieme and also not as used to Croke Park. Up to the Munster Champs to sort themselves out."
If teams lose interest in winning the Munster Final it will eventually become irrelevant. Simple as

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2440 - 29/07/2019 22:33:40    2218517

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