National Forum

All Ireland Final 2023 - Dublin V Kerry

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Replying To Joxer:  "Thanks Mick. My fault. I had erased last year from my consciousness. I was thinking of the 2 2019 games. Clifford was held to 2 in one of those games and 4 in the other, from play. He got 2 from play yesterday with Fitzy shadowing him. So 8 points from play over 3 games is average from an above average player. I'll have to look back at the game but Fitzy seemed to be at close quarters at all times. The conditions didn't favour shooters yesterday but I'd be interested to get Clifford's view on having Fitzy on him. He was clearly frustrated, pulling jersey off Fitzy in the corner, moaning at the ref. All signs of a player whose marker has him where he wants him. Still an outstanding player no doubt, but the Dubs have done a decent job on him in big games as they did with McManus in the semi, again Fitzy, limiting him to an average 2 pts."
Lol 9 points and a mark Joxer and a few frees also that he scored after being fouled by Mick So 10 and a few frees. So an average of 3 or 4 a game off Fitzsimmons. Not bad against one of the best corner backs ever.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 31/07/2023 15:19:04    2498089

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "There are a number of reasons. I posted a few in the minor football thread a few weeks ago:
- There was often an eerie atmosphere in Croke Park for long stretches of the minor games, until the ground eventually filled up at the end.
- Unless one of the minor teams was also in the senior final, it could often lack the passion from the crowd as very few in attendance had any skin in the game.
- There was also the fact that supporters from the competing minor counties received fewer tickets under the previous structure.
- Having a standalone game enables far more from the counties to attend.
- There was a great crowd and a brilliant atmosphere at the Galway vs Mayo final last year"
The minors is an awkward one. I have been at finals when a section of the crowd headed home after minor finals before senior game started. It's a privilege to be at a final and I could nt believe some would leave before the biggest sporting attraction of the year would even start. Now tbf it was counties first big wins and I suppose supporters were mad to go and celebrate and there was no alcohol in croke park then either altho it's only back in the 90s.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 31/07/2023 15:24:07    2498093

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Thanks Username and yes I've no complaints at all. A tough battle but Dublin deserving winners and you can see what it meant to them. Enjoy pal."
The great Pat Spillane's comment when Stephen Cluxton returned to the Dublin panel

"This could come back to haunt me before the end of the summer, but right now I regard Cluxton's return as a joke."

Stephen scored 2 points yesterday which equated to the winning margin. Yesterday's goal from Kerry, which has been debated, is the only goal that Cluxton conceded this year. The joke's on you Pat! :)

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 31/07/2023 15:32:19    2498100

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "Ach I know, but you have lads posting the rule, and then adding to it to suit a narrative, no where does it say it has to be gathered directly for it to be deemed a hop, no where does it say that if it comes off a part of the body before gathering is it deemed not a hop, show me that in the rule and I will agree wholeheartedly

Anyway enjoy the celebrations you deserve it after such a long spell in the wilderness :)"
Thanks very much, yeah the years of pain have ended

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20699 - 31/07/2023 15:37:44    2498103

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "Congratulations to Dublin. They are an extraordinary bunch of players. As a Meath man I hate the Dublin team but I respect these players and their honesty of effort and commitment to improving themsleves as players. The talk of "a tough couple of years" is nauseating. 2 easy Leinster titles and 2 semi final losses (1 after extra time and 1 by a point) is not a tough couple of years. And the booing of Gough having won the all Ireland was embarrassing and doesn't belong in GAA at all. It can be difficult to disentangle the brilliant likeable team from the casual supporters (not the club people and diehards) and the overall supports they got from the GAA in terms of finances and home games in Croke Park. But those players are without doubt the best team in football history and deserve all the credit in the world"
Absolutely agree with all of this

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 31/07/2023 15:43:14    2498107

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Replying To endgame:  "Why do the gaa make changes that so many people disagree with. Bring back the minor final on All Ireland Sunday. Gets people in to the stadium and creates an atmosphere early on."
pure rubbish not reality, most minor games started before an empty croke park, it was dreadful, and an insult to young men having the biggest day of their lives, what atmosphere is there in an 80000 seater park with 5/10000 people in it

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2897 - 31/07/2023 15:57:57    2498114

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Replying To galwayford:  "One thing I cannot understand, around the 60th minute the ball played in between D.Clifford and M.Fitzsimons, Clifford on ground, Fitzsimmons knees ball away, out over the end line. Looks like a 65 to me, but the Ref gives a free out to Dubs. Why was this. It was a 50/50 ball between Clifford and Fitz. Why no 65?"
Because it's football and not hurling!

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 31/07/2023 16:02:17    2498117

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "What has the poster's county got to do with it? Would it be more valid coming from someone from Fermanagh or Kildare? It's a personal opinion, not one representing Galway.
I disagree with him by the way. Clifford did some very good things today, but he tried a few shots on the last 20 minutes which weren't really on in the conditions and missed a few more he'd normally get."
Kerry showed that they are a 'one trick pony' If Clifford doesn't perform, Kerry are i trouble. In 2021 when Clifford got injured against Tyrone, they lost that day as well.
By the way David Clifford is a class act. Noboby can deny that. It is just that Kerry are too reliant on him.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3141 - 31/07/2023 16:04:06    2498118

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Replying To Joxer:  "Clifford pushed Fitzy in the back so it was a free out. Similarly Clifford was pulling the jersey off Fitzy's back at the Canal End, clear yellow and free out yet ref yellows both and hops the ball. Crazy decision. Having said that Fitzy proved again why he is the best man marker in the game. I think in the last 3 championship meetings Fitzy has held Clifford to 4 points from play, over 230m of football or thereabouts. He was putting so much pressure on Cliffords shots that Clifford just couldn't get that extra half second to compose himself. Great performance from a 9 times Celtic Cross winner now."
Crazy you say! He threw up the ball because he had stopped the game. Corrected his error after consultation with umpire and booking of both players. Textbook refereeing

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 31/07/2023 16:06:51    2498121

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Replying To Sindar:  "Crazy you say! He threw up the ball because he had stopped the game. Corrected his error after consultation with umpire and booking of both players. Textbook refereeing"
went in to his umpires on because fitzsimons jumped up and down until he did........dublin should have had a 45 in the first half and kerry one in the second, mccarthy should have got 2 yellows and the challenge on ryan in the first half deserved a red...........don't buy in to this nonsense that gough was good, he was poor

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 1000 - 31/07/2023 16:21:48    2498128

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Replying To Belclare:  "Congrats to Dublin, with Cluxton, Rock, possibly Fitzsimons and Mc Carthy stepping away they are irreplaceable, I'd think Dublin could be waiting a while for another Sam..
Might give the rest of us a chance!"
The rest of who? It'll just open up the way for Kerry to add a few more Sams before Dublin are back in 3-4 years' time. Tyrone might sneak in for one, but it is hard to see 'the rest of us' win any AI at all.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2118 - 31/07/2023 16:25:28    2498133

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "That was a massive call by the ref… but he got it wrong by throwing the ball up… He should have restarted the game with Kerry in possession back down the field where he blew up first… A Dublin score came from the throw up…. He went running in and gave Dublin a free in the first half for far less …"
That is incorrect. Read the rules. Ref was correct

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 31/07/2023 16:26:51    2498137

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "You won't get many thumbs up for that fella, but I'm inclined to agree with you. Imagine allowing that happen in a solo run out of defence, bounce the ball to beat the first man, bounce again to beat second except touch it with the foot, and so on. He had control of the ball at all times.. IE two hops. What he did was con the referee and bend the rules, some don't seem to mind that. Question is can you deliberately hop the ball a second time and knee it or chest it into your hands. Answer is No"
As you can see from my previous comments in this thread I'm only replying to ref and rule comments because it always fascinates me how posters can be so categoric in their comments when clearly they don't know the rules. READ THE RULE BOOK. Ref can only play by the rules and he applied it here correctly

Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 31/07/2023 16:32:33    2498143

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Replying To Sindar:  "That is incorrect. Read the rules. Ref was correct"
One of the best calls of the game for the referee. Showed his experience and 'feel' for the game and correctly threw oin the ball after first of all indicating a free in. Correct decision.
Overall, the referee contributed to a very good game.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1852 - 31/07/2023 17:00:11    2498153

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Replying To BlastCalyle:  "It's not a bounce unless it comes straight back to his hands. From the rule book


Important Terms and
Definitions - Football
and Hurling
The following list of Definitions of Terms used in the
Playing Rules forms an integral part of these rules.
1. BOUNCE For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on return to his
hand(s) again."
That's pretty open-and-shut.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 31/07/2023 17:03:21    2498157

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "pure rubbish not reality, most minor games started before an empty croke park, it was dreadful, and an insult to young men having the biggest day of their lives, what atmosphere is there in an 80000 seater park with 5/10000 people in it"
You might have a bit of respect for opinions you disagree with and not be throwing around words such as rubbish. My county Roscommon were in the All Ireland minor final in Croke Park in 2006. I loved the sense of occasion that went with being at headquarters for the curtain raiser to the senior match. The game ended in a draw and the replay was in Ennis with a huge Roscommon crowd many of whom couldn't get tickets for Croke park so I agree there are arguments both ways. I wonder what the minor players themselves would want. I think they'd want to play their Final in Croke Park on All Ireland Final Sunday.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2308 - 31/07/2023 17:29:30    2498169

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Replying To carlowman:  "One of the best calls of the game for the referee. Showed his experience and 'feel' for the game and correctly threw oin the ball after first of all indicating a free in. Correct decision.
Overall, the referee contributed to a very good game."
He is good and although in common with most Dubs - and Kerry people at other times! - I was screaming at him over various decisions, when you look back at the games he makes very few errors and there were no decisive ones yesterday.


Childish to be booing him or any one else for that matter, but sure that's what we have....

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3275 - 31/07/2023 17:29:49    2498171

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Philly McMahon, Johnny Cooper, Rory O'Carroll, Cian O'Sullivan, Denis Bastick, Michael Dara, Alan and Bernard Brogan, Diarmuid Connolly, Paul Flynn, Kev Mc, and many more have moved on and been replaced seemlessly.

Dublin aren't going anywhere. They might lose the odd semi final or final by a point or 2 but they're winning 6 or 7 All Irelands a decade for the rest of our lives and that's just something we will have to get used to."
They were replaced seemlessly because of their success at U21 level 2012 -2017 and amount of players that made the step up to senior team that already had a solid base.

The last three years of the U20 championship Dublin haven't even won a leinster title. Dessie Farrell since replacing Jim Gavin in 2020 has relied on the old guard and simply wouldn't have won this years AI without the return of Cluxton, McCaffrey and yesterdays motm Mannion.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3517 - 31/07/2023 17:37:14    2498178

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Replying To totalrecall:  "went in to his umpires on because fitzsimons jumped up and down until he did........dublin should have had a 45 in the first half and kerry one in the second, mccarthy should have got 2 yellows and the challenge on ryan in the first half deserved a red...........don't buy in to this nonsense that gough was good, he was poor"
Correct. Are high tackles off the ball not red card offences??

Thejampot (Leitrim) - Posts: 351 - 31/07/2023 17:57:54    2498190

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Lol 9 points and a mark Joxer and a few frees also that he scored after being fouled by Mick So 10 and a few frees. So an average of 3 or 4 a game off Fitzsimmons. Not bad against one of the best corner backs ever."
A couple of those frees weren't off Mick. But points from play is really all that matters. He was kept to 8 in 3 games. I'll take that any day against one of the best. LOL. I wonder what his championship average is versus his average against Dublin. The pressure may have gotten to him yesterday or Mick got into his head. Lots of people saying that he's carrying Kerry. I don't agree with that. This is a young enough Kerry team and he has another few finals in him.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 31/07/2023 18:15:08    2498193

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