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McDonagh Cup Link To All-Ireland To Be Removed?

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posted this on another topic awhile back and many thought it a good idea..Let Leinster and Munster return to the good old days BUT on a round robin format. Set up the JMCD, apparently its a great tournament, so let the counties who were not being challenged sufficiently or getting enough games go into that - again on a round robin. Galway, Antrim, Down, Derry, all go in initially too and any other team that does not want to play in their provincial championship - possibly, Kerry, Carlow etc. etc. etc.

For example, Kilkenny and Cork win their provincial finals, they go straight to AI semi finals. Say Galway wins the JMD, They are titled as JMD and Connaught Champions, if say Antrim or Down win it, they are JMCD and Ulster Champions by default. If a Leinster or Munster team win it they are simply JMC champions only, as they have provinces with an active senior hurling championships, they go to semi final - The JMD runner up, joins a 3 way play off against the 2 beat provincial finalists - open draw them 3) the winners of that 3 way play off go in as last AI semi finalist. Usual rules apply, you cannot play a team you played in the current championships again BEFORE the AI final. Other than that the semi final could be a draw either to see who plays the 2 provincial champions.

The bottom teams in both Leinster and Munster round robins each year, drop down to the JMCD the following year, it shouldnt matter if its Cork or Tipp in Munster or Kilkenny or Wexford or Dublin in Leinster..

I know people will pick holes in the above - but its something I think might work, might need to be tweeked but it would give Leinster back its own provincial championship identity, and bring Munster to a par with teams having to drop out of it too if they finish bottom in Munster..no doubt someone else has a version of above mentioned already...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1035 - 30/07/2023 22:44:19    2497888

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The majority of players in the McDonagh Cup seem to be against scrapping the preliminary hurling quarter-finals. I see where they are coming from but I'm not against the change if it goes through.
An 8 team single group McDonagh Cup with top 4 into semi-finals and the final before an All-Ireland semi-final is the way to go.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7915 - 30/09/2023 09:47:52    2506335

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Well, the motion for change failed today anyway, so that's that one decided......

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2262 - 30/09/2023 13:06:41    2506368

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Well, the motion for change failed today anyway, so that's that one decided......"
Decided for now anyway. If they can get agreement to expand the McDonagh to one group of 8, with semi-finals for the top 4, there might be more appetite for change.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7915 - 30/09/2023 13:27:48    2506369

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Decided for now anyway. If they can get agreement to expand the McDonagh to one group of 8, with semi-finals for the top 4, there might be more appetite for change."
That's an interesting idea - what would you do to control match count? - "double up" the Provincial and McDonagh Cup Finals as group results and should the Provinces go back to KO?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2644 - 30/09/2023 14:45:59    2506375

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Sorry, I misread your point - it is a "McDonagh Cup 8".

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2644 - 30/09/2023 19:14:06    2506396

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Replying To omahant:  "Sorry, I misread your point - it is a "McDonagh Cup 8"."
Well all the Munster nonsense came to its end.There will be no Mcdonagh for many years after this.The GAA's best competition now needs Croke Park to support it as much as it does the Tailteann cup.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1470 - 30/09/2023 19:51:08    2506398

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Why is it it only because an issue this year when Offaly were hammered? I Carlow were also well beaten but it's only the Offaly result that's talked about.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1387 - 01/10/2023 11:58:03    2506437

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Replying To oneoff:  "Why is it it only because an issue this year when Offaly were hammered? I Carlow were also well beaten but it's only the Offaly result that's talked about."
Carlow were beaten by 10 points and conceded 2 late goals whereas offaly were beaten by 32 points in a game that was over after 20 minutes.

Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 210 - 01/10/2023 12:16:26    2506440

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PUT GALWAY INTO MUNSTER!
With all the talk about hurling promotion and looking ahead to next few years, we should be trying to help counties wishing to compete at the top table stay at the top table.. soo..
If Kerry win McDonagh cup in 2024 then they should enter Munster championship in 2025 making it a 6 team competition like Leinster.
If, Offaly, Laois Or Westmeath with it, then Galway should move to Munster and retain both Antrim, Carlow (or Wexford) in Leinster for 2025, making both 6 team competitions…
Any taughts!

Carlowtothecore1 (Carlow) - Posts: 30 - 12/12/2023 20:07:09    2516544

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Replying To Carlowtothecore1:  "PUT GALWAY INTO MUNSTER!
With all the talk about hurling promotion and looking ahead to next few years, we should be trying to help counties wishing to compete at the top table stay at the top table.. soo..
If Kerry win McDonagh cup in 2024 then they should enter Munster championship in 2025 making it a 6 team competition like Leinster.
If, Offaly, Laois Or Westmeath with it, then Galway should move to Munster and retain both Antrim, Carlow (or Wexford) in Leinster for 2025, making both 6 team competitions…
Any taughts!"
I think Galway moving into Munster would make the strength difference between the 2 groups be too wide.

The issue is the provincial element.
The All Ireland needs to be 2 mixed groups of 6.

The Provincials can be used for seeding that.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 13/12/2023 15:10:47    2516623

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think Galway moving into Munster would make the strength difference between the 2 groups be too wide.

The issue is the provincial element.
The All Ireland needs to be 2 mixed groups of 6.

The Provincials can be used for seeding that."
Not enough weekends for that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12212 - 13/12/2023 15:56:15    2516632

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Replying To Viking66:  "Not enough weekends for that."
Yeah there is.

In football teams can play an 8 game league, 4 round provincial championship and 7 round All Ireland.

My hurling suggestion would be 7 game league, 3 round provincial and 8 round All Ireland so slightly shorter than the football schedule.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 13/12/2023 17:45:10    2516646

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Replying To Viking66:  "Not enough weekends for that."
Correct. They would have to revert back to league divisions of 6 to fit in a knockout provincial championship and 2 groups of 6 for the All-Ireland Championship.
The Munster Championship brings in big crowds and money. I can't see the Munster round robin being dropped.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7915 - 13/12/2023 18:28:40    2516648

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Replying To Carlowtothecore1:  "PUT GALWAY INTO MUNSTER!
With all the talk about hurling promotion and looking ahead to next few years, we should be trying to help counties wishing to compete at the top table stay at the top table.. soo..
If Kerry win McDonagh cup in 2024 then they should enter Munster championship in 2025 making it a 6 team competition like Leinster.
If, Offaly, Laois Or Westmeath with it, then Galway should move to Munster and retain both Antrim, Carlow (or Wexford) in Leinster for 2025, making both 6 team competitions…
Any taughts!"
The last time Galway were in Munster I think they won one game in 10 years they were there.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 13/12/2023 18:28:46    2516649

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Correct. They would have to revert back to league divisions of 6 to fit in a knockout provincial championship and 2 groups of 6 for the All-Ireland Championship.
The Munster Championship brings in big crowds and money. I can't see the Munster round robin being dropped."
Practically all the same games would be played plus more games between Leinster v Munster teams.

You'd have ties involving the big 9 playing 4 Munster games, 3 Leinster, 16 group games (10 in 1 group and 6 in the other) and then 5 Knockout rounds.Is 28 matches.

At the minute you get 11 in Munster, 7 in Leinster and 5 knock out games. I don't think the GAA would lose revenue overall.

That the current football schedule can be played proves that my suggested hurling schedule could also be played.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 13/12/2023 19:44:29    2516657

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Correct. They would have to revert back to league divisions of 6 to fit in a knockout provincial championship and 2 groups of 6 for the All-Ireland Championship.
The Munster Championship brings in big crowds and money. I can't see the Munster round robin being dropped."
There's no issue adding another team to Munster as there's already 6 in Leinster. And getting rid of provinces is still along way off, so it's a case of working with what we have in the short term to improve standards.. If standard of Munster is that far ahead of Leinster well that's Leinsters challange to bridge the gap. A Leinster championship with Kilkenny, Dublin, Wexford and 3 of Carlow, Antrim, Offaly or Laois could only help promotion of the game in the province. Also the 4th place Munster team could play in prelim q/f instead of McDonagh Runners up..

Carlowtothecore1 (Carlow) - Posts: 30 - 13/12/2023 23:01:52    2516678

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Replying To cityman73:  "The last time Galway were in Munster I think they won one game in 10 years they were there."
I wouldn't say that would be the case nowadays though. The only Munster team to beat Galway in the last few years championships is Limerick.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12212 - 14/12/2023 09:27:42    2516700

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Replying To Carlowtothecore1:  "There's no issue adding another team to Munster as there's already 6 in Leinster. And getting rid of provinces is still along way off, so it's a case of working with what we have in the short term to improve standards.. If standard of Munster is that far ahead of Leinster well that's Leinsters challange to bridge the gap. A Leinster championship with Kilkenny, Dublin, Wexford and 3 of Carlow, Antrim, Offaly or Laois could only help promotion of the game in the province. Also the 4th place Munster team could play in prelim q/f instead of McDonagh Runners up.."
Keep the Provinces but they should be knockout and used for All Ireland seeding.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 14/12/2023 10:40:22    2516716

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Practically all the same games would be played plus more games between Leinster v Munster teams.

You'd have ties involving the big 9 playing 4 Munster games, 3 Leinster, 16 group games (10 in 1 group and 6 in the other) and then 5 Knockout rounds.Is 28 matches.

At the minute you get 11 in Munster, 7 in Leinster and 5 knock out games. I don't think the GAA would lose revenue overall.

That the current football schedule can be played proves that my suggested hurling schedule could also be played."
You could reduce the length of the competition and have 2 mixed groups of 6 (or even 7)

You'd have a group of 6 be 1 half of the Munster draw and 1 half of the Leinster draw.

Provincial championship games count towards the group fixtures.

Provincial finals would be a bonus round for the participants.

Whilst the Munster championship group has been great to date, it's not actually that future proofed.

If Limerick start to dominate and if say Waterford get cut off from rest it is more likely to grow stale compared to a more mixed up format.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4247 - 14/12/2023 11:56:02    2516727

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