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McDonagh Cup Link To All-Ireland To Be Removed?

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I don't want to labour the point. It is up to Carlow, Laois and Westmeath to push for change. They facilitated a strong Joe Mac originally with the sweetener of a preliminary quarter final. With the preliminary quarter final rightly axed, it is not Carlow, Laois and Westmeath's responsibility to stay at Joe Mac level just to keep it competitive when they should be rightly accommodated in Leinster. New York are being accommodated for within hurling structures.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9579 - 28/02/2026 23:10:59    2659132

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I don't want to labour the point. It is up to Carlow, Laois and Westmeath to push for change. They facilitated a strong Joe Mac originally with the sweetener of a preliminary quarter final. With the preliminary quarter final rightly axed, it is not Carlow, Laois and Westmeath's responsibility to stay at Joe Mac level just to keep it competitive when they should be rightly accommodated in Leinster. New York are being accommodated for within hurling structures."
There is a promotion and relegation structure to and from the leinster championship from the Joe McDonagh. The counties you mention are in the championship that they belong in based on merit. If they win the Joe they get promoted to Leinster. Its transparent and merit based.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 120 - 01/03/2026 14:12:56    2659190

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I don't want to labour the point. It is up to Carlow, Laois and Westmeath to push for change. They facilitated a strong Joe Mac originally with the sweetener of a preliminary quarter final. With the preliminary quarter final rightly axed, it is not Carlow, Laois and Westmeath's responsibility to stay at Joe Mac level just to keep it competitive when they should be rightly accommodated in Leinster. New York are being accommodated for within hurling structures."
"They should be rightly accommodated in Leinster"

Why? Because you say so?

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1726 - 01/03/2026 15:46:55    2659219

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I don't want to labour the point. It is up to Carlow, Laois and Westmeath to push for change. They facilitated a strong Joe Mac originally with the sweetener of a preliminary quarter final. With the preliminary quarter final rightly axed, it is not Carlow, Laois and Westmeath's responsibility to stay at Joe Mac level just to keep it competitive when they should be rightly accommodated in Leinster. New York are being accommodated for within hurling structures."
You're dead right that it's up to counties like Carlow, Laois and Westmeath to push for change.

Laois pushed for the change they wanted, and got it. Fair play to them.

Not one of them have ever pushed for a Leinster Championship of seven, eight, nine, or even more teams.

Seems nobody's calling for that except yourself, and you don't even want to get into the finer details of how the format would actually work.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3434 - 01/03/2026 21:17:47    2659355

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "You're dead right that it's up to counties like Carlow, Laois and Westmeath to push for change.

Laois pushed for the change they wanted, and got it. Fair play to them.

Not one of them have ever pushed for a Leinster Championship of seven, eight, nine, or even more teams.

Seems nobody's calling for that except yourself, and you don't even want to get into the finer details of how the format would actually work."
It is straightforward. Joe Mac counties facilitated the current provincial groups. The preliminary quarter final was the sweetener to do a deal.
With the preliminary quarter final rightly removed - Carlow, Laois and Westmeath need to reflect on if they want to push for an expansion of the Leinster championship to 8 in the new landscape.

2 format options of many;
Suggestion A:
2 groups of 4. Top 2 into semi finals. Bottom teams in relegation final.

Suggestion B:
1 group of 8. Play one team from 4 different seeded brackets. 2 home games. 2 away games. Top 4 into semi finals. Bottom 4 into relegation semi finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9579 - 01/03/2026 23:12:55    2659376

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Replying To legendzxix:  "It is straightforward. Joe Mac counties facilitated the current provincial groups. The preliminary quarter final was the sweetener to do a deal.
With the preliminary quarter final rightly removed - Carlow, Laois and Westmeath need to reflect on if they want to push for an expansion of the Leinster championship to 8 in the new landscape.

2 format options of many;
Suggestion A:
2 groups of 4. Top 2 into semi finals. Bottom teams in relegation final.

Suggestion B:
1 group of 8. Play one team from 4 different seeded brackets. 2 home games. 2 away games. Top 4 into semi finals. Bottom 4 into relegation semi finals."
I can't speak for what Carlow, Laois and Westmeath might push for in the future after they reflect on things, but I do know what Laois pushed for now.

And to the best of my knowledge, Carlow, Westmeath, and the other McDonagh Cup counties supported that Laois motion. There was certainly no media outcry from any of them anyway, along the lines of "how dare Laois try to deny us a chance to have a crack against a top-tier county?"

So, would be a bit rich for them to come along in a couple of years to say they want to leave the McDonagh Cup behind, and play in the Leinster Championship after all. Would be cocking a snoop to the remaining counties who'd make up the McDonagh Cup instead, and would be a real case of that "pull up the ladder after yourselves" jibe that was used here not so long ago in a different context.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3434 - 02/03/2026 09:06:59    2659407

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I can't speak for what Carlow, Laois and Westmeath might push for in the future after they reflect on things, but I do know what Laois pushed for now.

And to the best of my knowledge, Carlow, Westmeath, and the other McDonagh Cup counties supported that Laois motion. There was certainly no media outcry from any of them anyway, along the lines of "how dare Laois try to deny us a chance to have a crack against a top-tier county?"

So, would be a bit rich for them to come along in a couple of years to say they want to leave the McDonagh Cup behind, and play in the Leinster Championship after all. Would be cocking a snoop to the remaining counties who'd make up the McDonagh Cup instead, and would be a real case of that "pull up the ladder after yourselves" jibe that was used here not so long ago in a different context."
Leinster:
Seed 1. Kilkenny, Galway.
2. Dublin, Wexford.
3. Offaly, Kildare.
4. Carlow, Laois.

Joe Mac:
Antrim
Westmeath
Down
London
Kerry*
Meath

CR:
5 teams

NR:
5 teams (+New York currently.)

If Kerry win Joe Mac, let Leinster remain at 8. Joe Mac reduced to 5 teams for one year. Munster 6th and Leinster 8th relegated in the following year.

LM:
5 teams

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9579 - 02/03/2026 10:25:22    2659432

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Leinster:
Seed 1. Kilkenny, Galway.
2. Dublin, Wexford.
3. Offaly, Kildare.
4. Carlow, Laois.

Joe Mac:
Antrim
Westmeath
Down
London
Kerry*
Meath

CR:
5 teams

NR:
5 teams (+New York currently.)

If Kerry win Joe Mac, let Leinster remain at 8. Joe Mac reduced to 5 teams for one year. Munster 6th and Leinster 8th relegated in the following year.

LM:
5 teams"
From a post of yours on the previous page:
From what I've seen of Carlow, Westmeath and Laois competing in Leinster - they should be included

From your top post on this page:
it is not Carlow, Laois and Westmeath's responsibility to stay at Joe Mac level just to keep it competitive when they should be rightly accommodated in Leinster

But now you're keeping one of them at Joe Mac level anyway :D

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3434 - 02/03/2026 10:44:29    2659437

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@Pikeman96, I've always said expanding Leinster to 8. I've mentioned relegation finals and/or relegation semi finals included. If you didn't read between the lines - so be it.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9579 - 02/03/2026 12:03:49    2659460

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Replying To legendzxix:  "It is straightforward. Joe Mac counties facilitated the current provincial groups. The preliminary quarter final was the sweetener to do a deal.
With the preliminary quarter final rightly removed - Carlow, Laois and Westmeath need to reflect on if they want to push for an expansion of the Leinster championship to 8 in the new landscape.

2 format options of many;
Suggestion A:
2 groups of 4. Top 2 into semi finals. Bottom teams in relegation final.

Suggestion B:
1 group of 8. Play one team from 4 different seeded brackets. 2 home games. 2 away games. Top 4 into semi finals. Bottom 4 into relegation semi finals."
I think it'd be better if there were two groups of four and 1st were at home to 2nd from the other group in the SFs, 3rd were at home to 4th in the relegation SFs, and then the losers of the SFs played the winners of the relegation SFs played each other, then the winners of that would play each other, and whoever won that game would play the Munster runners-up in the AIQF

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1007 - 02/03/2026 12:20:11    2659465

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "I think it'd be better if there were two groups of four and 1st were at home to 2nd from the other group in the SFs, 3rd were at home to 4th in the relegation SFs, and then the losers of the SFs played the winners of the relegation SFs played each other, then the winners of that would play each other, and whoever won that game would play the Munster runners-up in the AIQF"
Possibly. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Carlow, Antrim, Laois and Westmeath have all competed in Leinster recently enough. Kerry and Meath then down in the Ring. Whether all this is good for hurling, I'm not so sure.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9579 - 03/03/2026 07:27:24    2659652

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Replying To legendzxix:  "@Pikeman96, I've always said expanding Leinster to 8. I've mentioned relegation finals and/or relegation semi finals included. If you didn't read between the lines - so be it."
This is a bit like asking a blind man can he not see something.

If you've always said Leinster should be expanded to specifically eight, and have stated more than once that Carlow, Laois, and Westmeath should be included, then what you're also saying is that one of Kilkenny, Galway, Wexford, Dublin, Offaly or Kildare would have to be dropped from it.

Should all these counties not be allowed to play in the Leinster Championship as well, the way that Carlow, Laois and Westmeath "should"?

How's that for "reading between the lines"??? :D

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3434 - 03/03/2026 11:05:45    2659696

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Possibly. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Carlow, Antrim, Laois and Westmeath have all competed in Leinster recently enough. Kerry and Meath then down in the Ring. Whether all this is good for hurling, I'm not so sure."
Of course its not good for hurling. It makes a mockery of the current merit based system and makes the leinster championship into a politically formed championship rather that the current merit based championship. Increasing it to 6 challenged that merit based ideology but this shatters it if it ever becomes a reality. While you say Leinster format is for leinster the All Ireland series is most definitely not a leinster matter and I dont see the munster championship counties standing for anything other than the current format going forward. That will involve a third leinstrr team being decided by a playoff. Before you say it , there is no real appetite for 4 teams coming out of munster from within the competing counties. It would damage the integrity of the competition and noone wants that.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 120 - 03/03/2026 11:42:39    2659718

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Leinster Qualifier Group was essentially Tier 1B between Leinster championship and Christy Ring. Leinster Qualifier Group evolved into Joe Mac, retaining the quirky Tier 1B type status with a pathway to the All Ireland preliminary quarter finals. With the preliminary quarter final path cut, the Joe Mac is essentially a Christy Ring Premier. Does hurling need so many tiers.. Tiers below provincial level should have at least 8 so that actually having two semi finals makes sense.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9579 - 03/03/2026 14:33:16    2659772

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Leinster Qualifier Group was essentially Tier 1B between Leinster championship and Christy Ring. Leinster Qualifier Group evolved into Joe Mac, retaining the quirky Tier 1B type status with a pathway to the All Ireland preliminary quarter finals. With the preliminary quarter final path cut, the Joe Mac is essentially a Christy Ring Premier. Does hurling need so many tiers.. Tiers below provincial level should have at least 8 so that actually having two semi finals makes sense."
Yes it does. It makes it merit based and competitive. The teams in the Joe cant compete in leinster and definitely not munster. The winner of the joe gets the opportunity to try. The same applies to winner of Christy, Nicky and Lory. They get the opportunity to try to compete at the level immediately above them. They have earned that right. However nobody up there owes them anything. Its their responsibility to be ready to compete. If they are not they go straight back down and rightly so. Thats merit based competition. Id argue that those championships are quite competitive and a gaa success story.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 120 - 03/03/2026 19:20:09    2659822

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Leinster Qualifier Group was essentially Tier 1B between Leinster championship and Christy Ring. Leinster Qualifier Group evolved into Joe Mac, retaining the quirky Tier 1B type status with a pathway to the All Ireland preliminary quarter finals. With the preliminary quarter final path cut, the Joe Mac is essentially a Christy Ring Premier. Does hurling need so many tiers.. Tiers below provincial level should have at least 8 so that actually having two semi finals makes sense."
Now I'm back to agreeing with you. The Leinster qualifier group worked well for the few years it was there, and broadly the same sort of structure still applies in both Minor & U20 hurling in Leinster. Qualifiers from Leinster Tier 2 there go into the closing stages of the actual (Tier 1) Leinster Championship. They don't leapfrog teams who have already been knocked out of Tier 1, and are not springboarded straight into the All-Ireland stages.

Thing is, it simply wouldn't fit into the current calendar at senior level, so long as National League has its current format and the round-robin of Leinster Senior Hurling has to start at the same time.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3434 - 03/03/2026 23:19:43    2659839

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Now I'm back to agreeing with you. The Leinster qualifier group worked well for the few years it was there, and broadly the same sort of structure still applies in both Minor & U20 hurling in Leinster. Qualifiers from Leinster Tier 2 there go into the closing stages of the actual (Tier 1) Leinster Championship. They don't leapfrog teams who have already been knocked out of Tier 1, and are not springboarded straight into the All-Ireland stages.

Thing is, it simply wouldn't fit into the current calendar at senior level, so long as National League has its current format and the round-robin of Leinster Senior Hurling has to start at the same time."
Yeah, it definitely won't fit. Due to that time constraint - at least two of Carlow, Antrim, Laois and Westmeath should be accommodated at provincial level. I mention Carlow, Laois and Westmeath as they can push for change in Leinster.
The Joe Mac has been and is a great competition but like it's place is as a Leinster B Championship. If there is no place or appetite for a glorified B championship - it's existence should be over.

Leinster - 8
Ring - 8
Rackard - 8
Meagher - 6

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9579 - 04/03/2026 00:43:08    2659850

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