National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The solution then was to prevent inter county managers "owning" the players for the year. That is only a recent innovation. I recall seeing Dublin lads belting the lard out of one another in club games here in Dublin in the 70s and early 80s and then togging out for county the week after.

The reference above to marketing contains much of the answers to all of this. Where are the CPA by the way? Another stalking horse for changes that have made not one whit of difference to 95% of club players."
The CPA was disbanded when club players finally got proper certainty about their fixtures and when they would take place. That was why it was formed in the 1st place. Very surprised at you Barney you are usually a well informed poster!!!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 18/11/2022 13:12:40    2448051

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Did you ever hear the term "rhetorical question"?

Strange you do not hear from them any more about all the concerns they had about lads hurling junior ... in November :-)"
How in God's name can you hear from an organisation that no longer exists??????

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 18/11/2022 16:26:06    2448096

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Example Club Calendar for Inter-county All-Ireland finalists: (County winners receiving a bye to provincial semi-finals)
August
06. County Club Hurling Round 1
13. County Club Football Round 1
20. County Club Hurling Round 2
27. County Club Football Round 2

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 3
10. County Club Football Round 3
17. County Club Hurling Quarter-finals
24. County Club Football Quarter-finals

October
01. County Club Hurling Semi-finals
08. County Club Football Semi-finals
15. County Club Hurling Finals
22. County Club Football Finals
29. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
12. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
19. Provincial Club Football Finals
26. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals
Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 19/11/2022 21:39:12    2448199

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Example Club Calendar for Inter-county All-Ireland finalists: (County winners receiving a bye to provincial semi-finals)
August
06. County Club Hurling Round 1
13. County Club Football Round 1
20. County Club Hurling Round 2
27. County Club Football Round 2

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 3
10. County Club Football Round 3
17. County Club Hurling Quarter-finals
24. County Club Football Quarter-finals

October
01. County Club Hurling Semi-finals
08. County Club Football Semi-finals
15. County Club Hurling Finals
22. County Club Football Finals
29. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
12. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
19. Provincial Club Football Finals
26. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals
Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!"
You have only 3 rounds of group games and no breaks whatsoever in the schedule? Big ask for club players to play every week for that long. Also we have 5 rounds in football and hurling before the QFs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 20/11/2022 14:30:14    2448223

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Replying To Viking66:  "You have only 3 rounds of group games and no breaks whatsoever in the schedule? Big ask for club players to play every week for that long. Also we have 5 rounds in football and hurling before the QFs."
I was basing it off the 16 teams in 4 groups of 4 format. Dual players would be playing week after week but that comes with the territory.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 20/11/2022 20:08:12    2448246

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I was basing it off the 16 teams in 4 groups of 4 format. Dual players would be playing week after week but that comes with the territory."
We have 2 groups of 6. And most of our club players are dual players

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 20/11/2022 21:59:46    2448256

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A lot of counties fix no games for the first two weeks of August due to it being prime holiday period. There's always a slowdown for that reason anyway, So unless a team manages to get all of the Junior Bs to agree on taking holidays in Winter, there will still be a hiatus in Summer and Autumn. Which is why most club championships are running at same pace as always, give or take a week or two in Dublin and elsewhere.

The club schedule for 95% of players has always been manageable. Compressing the marquee championships allegedly to accommodate this - and coincidentally fit in with plans for Croke Park and other venues! - makes no sense.

And I know how people voted in clubs, counties and Congress, and that's fine. Does not mean they were right.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 872 - 21/11/2022 08:41:21    2448261

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "A lot of counties fix no games for the first two weeks of August due to it being prime holiday period. There's always a slowdown for that reason anyway, So unless a team manages to get all of the Junior Bs to agree on taking holidays in Winter, there will still be a hiatus in Summer and Autumn. Which is why most club championships are running at same pace as always, give or take a week or two in Dublin and elsewhere.

The club schedule for 95% of players has always been manageable. Compressing the marquee championships allegedly to accommodate this - and coincidentally fit in with plans for Croke Park and other venues! - makes no sense.

And I know how people voted in clubs, counties and Congress, and that's fine. Does not mean they were right."
So what's your "right" solution?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 21/11/2022 10:25:30    2448281

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "So what's your "right" solution?"
I've asked him that before. Am still waiting for an answer. Maybe he'll answer this time.....

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1280 - 21/11/2022 11:13:52    2448288

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "A lot of counties fix no games for the first two weeks of August due to it being prime holiday period. There's always a slowdown for that reason anyway, So unless a team manages to get all of the Junior Bs to agree on taking holidays in Winter, there will still be a hiatus in Summer and Autumn. Which is why most club championships are running at same pace as always, give or take a week or two in Dublin and elsewhere.

The club schedule for 95% of players has always been manageable. Compressing the marquee championships allegedly to accommodate this - and coincidentally fit in with plans for Croke Park and other venues! - makes no sense.

And I know how people voted in clubs, counties and Congress, and that's fine. Does not mean they were right."
If club players were happy with the way it was there would have been no CPA formed

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 21/11/2022 11:36:25    2448295

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Replying To Viking66:  "If club players were happy with the way it was there would have been no CPA formed"
I don't know anyone in my own club or any other who was a member of CPA or even asked to join. Another stalking horse for things that Croke Park wanted to do anyway, mostly for commercial reasons.

You can get approval for anything in this country if you throw in the words "radical" and "change." The system needed tweaking but that happens as a matter of course anyway and depends on competent administration. Incompetent administrators have become no more competent since January 1, 2022. As is evident from many county threads here and from county board meetings.

They can no longer blame the All Ireland final for not having a proper schedule. That's the only difference in a lot of cases.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 872 - 21/11/2022 12:59:11    2448317

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I don't know anyone in my own club or any other who was a member of CPA or even asked to join. Another stalking horse for things that Croke Park wanted to do anyway, mostly for commercial reasons.

You can get approval for anything in this country if you throw in the words "radical" and "change." The system needed tweaking but that happens as a matter of course anyway and depends on competent administration. Incompetent administrators have become no more competent since January 1, 2022. As is evident from many county threads here and from county board meetings.

They can no longer blame the All Ireland final for not having a proper schedule. That's the only difference in a lot of cases."
The end of that post suggests you now think that having the All-Ireland Finals early is a good thing, since it removes one of the excuses for "incompetence" on behalf of some County Boards.

Anyway, I'm crossing my fingers here that you're right that using the words "radical" and "change" always work in such situations........can we please see the radical change of you actually suggesting something concrete, instead of just grumbling and griping?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1280 - 21/11/2022 14:06:17    2448325

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I don't know anyone in my own club or any other who was a member of CPA or even asked to join. Another stalking horse for things that Croke Park wanted to do anyway, mostly for commercial reasons.

You can get approval for anything in this country if you throw in the words "radical" and "change." The system needed tweaking but that happens as a matter of course anyway and depends on competent administration. Incompetent administrators have become no more competent since January 1, 2022. As is evident from many county threads here and from county board meetings.

They can no longer blame the All Ireland final for not having a proper schedule. That's the only difference in a lot of cases."
The CPA had tens of thousands of members all over the country. I don't know which club you belong to Barney but I'd be amazed if none of your players were members.
The rest of your post is very paranoid. I don't think the GAA would have set up a stalking horse to force the split season through. If they had of wanted they could just have put a motion to Congress. Financially the intercounty season as it was, and is, with hurling round robins and back doors etc is a big money spinner. The only practical alternative to a split season would have been a return to straight knockout intercounty with players released back to their clubs in between the far fewer fixtures. As things were in the 90s. The moneymen running the GAA would certainly not have liked that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 21/11/2022 15:35:18    2448338

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Discontented Barney is all over the place on the CPA.
First he moaned that they weren't answering his questions.
Now that he was told they dissolved themselves when they'd more or less achieved their aims he's claiming the had little or no membership.
I'd love to see his solution to the "problems" he perceives are out there.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 21/11/2022 16:57:23    2448353

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I don't know anyone in my own club or any other who was a member of CPA or even asked to join. Another stalking horse for things that Croke Park wanted to do anyway, mostly for commercial reasons.

You can get approval for anything in this country if you throw in the words "radical" and "change." The system needed tweaking but that happens as a matter of course anyway and depends on competent administration. Incompetent administrators have become no more competent since January 1, 2022. As is evident from many county threads here and from county board meetings.

They can no longer blame the All Ireland final for not having a proper schedule. That's the only difference in a lot of cases."
I agree with your sentiments here although the CPA had thousands of memebers across the country across hundreds of clubs. The aim was certainty of fixtures. The answer they received was the split season.

Now we have a split season but the same old fixture problems are still there but with a host of new problems that are being caused by the condensed intercounty schedule.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 218 - 22/11/2022 12:45:45    2448407

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Replying To brianb:  "I agree with your sentiments here although the CPA had thousands of memebers across the country across hundreds of clubs. The aim was certainty of fixtures. The answer they received was the split season.

Now we have a split season but the same old fixture problems are still there but with a host of new problems that are being caused by the condensed intercounty schedule."
The same old fixture problems are there to a certain extent but that's not why the CPA were formed. What club players wanted was to know when the club championships would be played. They know this now. If the intercounty season is too condensed on account of there now being too many intercounty games that's nothing to do with the former CPA or current club players.
I really enjoy trips to Wexford Park and further afield with the kids following Wexfords hurlers and footballers. We have that from January to May/June and hopefully July some day soon!!!! But I also enjoy bringing the lads to see their clubs adult players playing too. Some of these are lads they know.
The current system that got settled on is a compromise. There never was going to be a perfect solution.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 22/11/2022 13:29:05    2448419

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Replying To brianb:  "I agree with your sentiments here although the CPA had thousands of memebers across the country across hundreds of clubs. The aim was certainty of fixtures. The answer they received was the split season.

Now we have a split season but the same old fixture problems are still there but with a host of new problems that are being caused by the condensed intercounty schedule."
The same old fixture problems are there to a certain extent but that's not why the CPA were formed. What club players wanted was to know when the club championships would be played. They know this now. If the intercounty season is too condensed on account of there now being too many intercounty games that's nothing to do with the former CPA or current club players.
I really enjoy trips to Wexford Park and further afield with the kids following Wexfords hurlers and footballers. We have that from January to May/June and hopefully July some day soon!!!! But I also enjoy bringing the lads to see their clubs adult players playing too. Some of these are lads they know.
The current system that got settled on is a compromise. There never was going to be a perfect solution.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 22/11/2022 13:29:39    2448420

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Replying To brianb:  "I agree with your sentiments here although the CPA had thousands of memebers across the country across hundreds of clubs. The aim was certainty of fixtures. The answer they received was the split season.

Now we have a split season but the same old fixture problems are still there but with a host of new problems that are being caused by the condensed intercounty schedule."
What "old problems" are still there?
What are the "new problems"
What's your solution to them?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 22/11/2022 14:55:50    2448434

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Replying To Viking66:  "The same old fixture problems are there to a certain extent but that's not why the CPA were formed. What club players wanted was to know when the club championships would be played. They know this now. If the intercounty season is too condensed on account of there now being too many intercounty games that's nothing to do with the former CPA or current club players.
I really enjoy trips to Wexford Park and further afield with the kids following Wexfords hurlers and footballers. We have that from January to May/June and hopefully July some day soon!!!! But I also enjoy bringing the lads to see their clubs adult players playing too. Some of these are lads they know.
The current system that got settled on is a compromise. There never was going to be a perfect solution."
I certainly agree that is not a perfect solution and a good compromise from where we were - but it will fall apart bit by bit leaving us in a worse place than we started.

I'd like to see a structured and planned overlap between the Club and County game. We've squeezed both county and club seasons so much. We should allow them to breath together and try and get the majority of games played in the summer.

With the spit season the majority of the county games are played in spring and the majority of the club games are played in the autumn. Its as if we've cleared the summer to play the All Ireland semi finals final and the first (usually seeding) round of the county championship. I think we can do better.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 218 - 22/11/2022 15:19:58    2448438

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Replying To brianb:  "I certainly agree that is not a perfect solution and a good compromise from where we were - but it will fall apart bit by bit leaving us in a worse place than we started.

I'd like to see a structured and planned overlap between the Club and County game. We've squeezed both county and club seasons so much. We should allow them to breath together and try and get the majority of games played in the summer.

With the spit season the majority of the county games are played in spring and the majority of the club games are played in the autumn. Its as if we've cleared the summer to play the All Ireland semi finals final and the first (usually seeding) round of the county championship. I think we can do better."
The only other way would be for counties to release lads back to the clubs for training and games between intercounty games. That just won't happen any more because there are alot more intercounty games and they are far more organised, even professional, set ups at intercounty than before.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 22/11/2022 17:13:50    2448452

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