National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

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Inter-county fixtures for both codes are often held on the same weekend. This doesn't fit at club level in some counties. This is the main factor in the length of the club season. It's stretching into January when the intention is to finish before Christmas.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 22/11/2022 17:39:10    2448456

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Replying To brianb:  "I certainly agree that is not a perfect solution and a good compromise from where we were - but it will fall apart bit by bit leaving us in a worse place than we started.

I'd like to see a structured and planned overlap between the Club and County game. We've squeezed both county and club seasons so much. We should allow them to breath together and try and get the majority of games played in the summer.

With the spit season the majority of the county games are played in spring and the majority of the club games are played in the autumn. Its as if we've cleared the summer to play the All Ireland semi finals final and the first (usually seeding) round of the county championship. I think we can do better."
And that's not true. We were flat out playing club games every weekend in July and August. High summer. If some county boards chose not to that's not the split seasons fault.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 22/11/2022 18:03:33    2448459

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Replying To Viking66:  "The only other way would be for counties to release lads back to the clubs for training and games between intercounty games. That just won't happen any more because there are alot more intercounty games and they are far more organised, even professional, set ups at intercounty than before."
Which is what I referred to before. That was common practise until maybe 30 years ago, more recently even?

I don't know about other counties but in Dublin there were ludicrous excuses used by teams to avoid even league finals on the basis that there was a clubman on a county panel. In one case I was personally involved in, a player who had been on the county hurling panel - never started a game - and his club managed to get the league final held a week either side of Christmas (can't recall if it was before r after) and Dublin having been knocked out of qualifiers in July!

On the other hand counties like Kilkenny allowed county men play club within weeks of championship and have always run their championship like clock work, while,,,, well you know the rest.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 872 - 23/11/2022 12:41:19    2448511

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Replying To Viking66:  "The only other way would be for counties to release lads back to the clubs for training and games between intercounty games. That just won't happen any more because there are alot more intercounty games and they are far more organised, even professional, set ups at intercounty than before."
I think you're right in saying that it wouldn't happen - I don't thing thats the same as saying it shouldn't happen. I'd prefer to look at is as the Club player being released to step up and play for the County than as the county player being released to play for the club.

For your other comment being flat out playing in the summer in Wexford. If I recall right Wexford further split the split season into Hurling time and Football time. If you only played football or hurling in wexford you'd have had a lot of spare time on your hands. I know Wexford are a bona fida dual county wiith a lot of lads playing both codes - thats not the same in every county.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 218 - 23/11/2022 12:57:31    2448515

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Replying To brianb:  "I think you're right in saying that it wouldn't happen - I don't thing thats the same as saying it shouldn't happen. I'd prefer to look at is as the Club player being released to step up and play for the County than as the county player being released to play for the club.

For your other comment being flat out playing in the summer in Wexford. If I recall right Wexford further split the split season into Hurling time and Football time. If you only played football or hurling in wexford you'd have had a lot of spare time on your hands. I know Wexford are a bona fida dual county wiith a lot of lads playing both codes - thats not the same in every county."
Agreed there are a few lads opposed to the split season because they only play one code. But the vast majority of players in the county play both. As it is if we had of got to the AISF in hurling we would have had to have had midweek club championship games in order to finish the club championships in time for the start of the Leinster club championships. As it was our football champions had to play their first round Leinster games the following weekend after our football finals.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 23/11/2022 15:35:34    2448539

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agreed there are a few lads opposed to the split season because they only play one code. But the vast majority of players in the county play both. As it is if we had of got to the AISF in hurling we would have had to have had midweek club championship games in order to finish the club championships in time for the start of the Leinster club championships. As it was our football champions had to play their first round Leinster games the following weekend after our football finals."
The Wexford groups of 5 games and the 3 knockout rounds is a lot. The GAA have focused so far on capping senior and intermediate championships to 16 teams. For the split season to work, and the GAA have invested in this by moving the All-Ireland finals to July, club championships might have to be limited to 7 rounds in total. Limiting to 6 rounds would be better but the All-Ireland championship will have 3 group games and 4 knockout rounds. The GAA have not set a good example there, adding an extra week or two to cater for a preliminary quarter-final.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 23/11/2022 18:34:33    2448561

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The Wexford groups of 5 games and the 3 knockout rounds is a lot. The GAA have focused so far on capping senior and intermediate championships to 16 teams. For the split season to work, and the GAA have invested in this by moving the All-Ireland finals to July, club championships might have to be limited to 7 rounds in total. Limiting to 6 rounds would be better but the All-Ireland championship will have 3 group games and 4 knockout rounds. The GAA have not set a good example there, adding an extra week or two to cater for a preliminary quarter-final."
We only have 12 teams in our grades. The players, and everyone else tbh, down here want the same number of club championship games as we had pre covid. No harm in that. The lads are training and playing League games all year. They deserve a minimum of 5 meaningful games in each code which is all they have.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 24/11/2022 10:45:15    2448585

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Replying To Viking66:  "We only have 12 teams in our grades. The players, and everyone else tbh, down here want the same number of club championship games as we had pre covid. No harm in that. The lads are training and playing League games all year. They deserve a minimum of 5 meaningful games in each code which is all they have."
Wexford clubs can have their 5 meaningful games. As part of a national framework, Wexford might have to go straight from the group stage to semi-finals, dropping the quarter-finals.
To make the point again. The GAA have invested in the calendar season by bringing the All-Ireland finals forward to July. Club championships will have to complete within an agreeable timeframe as part of that investment.
When I did an example calendar year fixture list, it could only completed before Christmas when club championships were limited to 6 rounds. A conundrum for the powers that be in the GAA to solve. Otherwise they'll have to accept All-Ireland club semi-finals and finals being a regular January fixture.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 24/11/2022 16:22:57    2448636

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wexford clubs can have their 5 meaningful games. As part of a national framework, Wexford might have to go straight from the group stage to semi-finals, dropping the quarter-finals.
To make the point again. The GAA have invested in the calendar season by bringing the All-Ireland finals forward to July. Club championships will have to complete within an agreeable timeframe as part of that investment.
When I did an example calendar year fixture list, it could only completed before Christmas when club championships were limited to 6 rounds. A conundrum for the powers that be in the GAA to solve. Otherwise they'll have to accept All-Ireland club semi-finals and finals being a regular January fixture."
I think we could live with 24 Clubs out of 2500 (under 1%) having to play in January .

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 24/11/2022 17:02:24    2448639

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "A lot of counties fix no games for the first two weeks of August due to it being prime holiday period. There's always a slowdown for that reason anyway, So unless a team manages to get all of the Junior Bs to agree on taking holidays in Winter, there will still be a hiatus in Summer and Autumn. Which is why most club championships are running at same pace as always, give or take a week or two in Dublin and elsewhere.

The club schedule for 95% of players has always been manageable. Compressing the marquee championships allegedly to accommodate this - and coincidentally fit in with plans for Croke Park and other venues! - makes no sense.

And I know how people voted in clubs, counties and Congress, and that's fine. Does not mean they were right."
August
20. All-Ireland Hurling Final
27. All-Ireland Football Final

Example Club Calendar for Inter-county All-Ireland finalists: (County winners of All-Ireland finalists receiving a bye to provincial semi-finals, where possible)

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 1
10. County Club Football Round 1
17. County Club Hurling Round 2 / Football Round 2
24. County Club Hurling Round 3

October
01. County Club Football Round 3
08. County Club Hurling Round 4 / Football Round 4
15. County Club Hurling Hurling Round 5
22. County Club Football Football Round 5
29. County Club Hurling Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. County Club Football Football Semi-finals
12. County Club Hurling Finals
19. County Club Football Finals
26. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
10. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
17. Provincial Club Football Finals

January
08. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals
15. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
22. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
29. All-Ireland Club Football Finals

February
26. National Leagues begin.

There has to be give and take on all sides. In a dual county like Wexford, sometimes hurling and football fixtures might have to be on the same weekend, or midweek has to utilised.
It should be possible to have a 4 week gap from the All-Ireland club finals to the start of the league.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 24/11/2022 17:11:06    2448641

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wexford clubs can have their 5 meaningful games. As part of a national framework, Wexford might have to go straight from the group stage to semi-finals, dropping the quarter-finals.
To make the point again. The GAA have invested in the calendar season by bringing the All-Ireland finals forward to July. Club championships will have to complete within an agreeable timeframe as part of that investment.
When I did an example calendar year fixture list, it could only completed before Christmas when club championships were limited to 6 rounds. A conundrum for the powers that be in the GAA to solve. Otherwise they'll have to accept All-Ireland club semi-finals and finals being a regular January fixture."
What's wrong with keeping the finals on Paddy's Day?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 24/11/2022 17:59:39    2448645

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Wexford clubs can have their 5 meaningful games. As part of a national framework, Wexford might have to go straight from the group stage to semi-finals, dropping the quarter-finals.
To make the point again. The GAA have invested in the calendar season by bringing the All-Ireland finals forward to July. Club championships will have to complete within an agreeable timeframe as part of that investment.
When I did an example calendar year fixture list, it could only completed before Christmas when club championships were limited to 6 rounds. A conundrum for the powers that be in the GAA to solve. Otherwise they'll have to accept All-Ireland club semi-finals and finals being a regular January fixture."
I'd have no issues with the club championship running into January, forgetting tradition dragging it out to mid March was absolutely crazy.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 427 - 24/11/2022 18:43:57    2448651

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Replying To legendzxix:  "August
20. All-Ireland Hurling Final
27. All-Ireland Football Final

Example Club Calendar for Inter-county All-Ireland finalists: (County winners of All-Ireland finalists receiving a bye to provincial semi-finals, where possible)

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 1
10. County Club Football Round 1
17. County Club Hurling Round 2 / Football Round 2
24. County Club Hurling Round 3

October
01. County Club Football Round 3
08. County Club Hurling Round 4 / Football Round 4
15. County Club Hurling Hurling Round 5
22. County Club Football Football Round 5
29. County Club Hurling Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. County Club Football Football Semi-finals
12. County Club Hurling Finals
19. County Club Football Finals
26. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
10. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
17. Provincial Club Football Finals

January
08. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals
15. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
22. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
29. All-Ireland Club Football Finals

February
26. National Leagues begin.

There has to be give and take on all sides. In a dual county like Wexford, sometimes hurling and football fixtures might have to be on the same weekend, or midweek has to utilised.
It should be possible to have a 4 week gap from the All-Ireland club finals to the start of the league."
Obviously they can't be the same weekend what planet are you from? No player would be able for 2 championship games in 2 days.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 25/11/2022 10:14:43    2448667

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Replying To legendzxix:  "August
20. All-Ireland Hurling Final
27. All-Ireland Football Final

Example Club Calendar for Inter-county All-Ireland finalists: (County winners of All-Ireland finalists receiving a bye to provincial semi-finals, where possible)

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 1
10. County Club Football Round 1
17. County Club Hurling Round 2 / Football Round 2
24. County Club Hurling Round 3

October
01. County Club Football Round 3
08. County Club Hurling Round 4 / Football Round 4
15. County Club Hurling Hurling Round 5
22. County Club Football Football Round 5
29. County Club Hurling Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. County Club Football Football Semi-finals
12. County Club Hurling Finals
19. County Club Football Finals
26. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
10. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
17. Provincial Club Football Finals

January
08. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals
15. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
22. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
29. All-Ireland Club Football Finals

February
26. National Leagues begin.

There has to be give and take on all sides. In a dual county like Wexford, sometimes hurling and football fixtures might have to be on the same weekend, or midweek has to utilised.
It should be possible to have a 4 week gap from the All-Ireland club finals to the start of the league."
And why do all the club championships have to start in September when all but 8, at most, counties will be done with intercounty by the end of July? And why can't provincial football and hurling semifinals and finals be on the same weekend? Unless by some miracle some club reaches both? And why does there have to be a 4 week gap between the AIFs and the League?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 25/11/2022 10:24:48    2448669

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Replying To legendzxix:  "August
20. All-Ireland Hurling Final
27. All-Ireland Football Final

Example Club Calendar for Inter-county All-Ireland finalists: (County winners of All-Ireland finalists receiving a bye to provincial semi-finals, where possible)

September
03. County Club Hurling Round 1
10. County Club Football Round 1
17. County Club Hurling Round 2 / Football Round 2
24. County Club Hurling Round 3

October
01. County Club Football Round 3
08. County Club Hurling Round 4 / Football Round 4
15. County Club Hurling Hurling Round 5
22. County Club Football Football Round 5
29. County Club Hurling Hurling Semi-finals

November
05. County Club Football Football Semi-finals
12. County Club Hurling Finals
19. County Club Football Finals
26. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals

December
03. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals
10. Provincial Club Hurling Finals
17. Provincial Club Football Finals

January
08. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals
15. All-Ireland Club Football Semi-finals
22. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals
29. All-Ireland Club Football Finals

February
26. National Leagues begin.

There has to be give and take on all sides. In a dual county like Wexford, sometimes hurling and football fixtures might have to be on the same weekend, or midweek has to utilised.
It should be possible to have a 4 week gap from the All-Ireland club finals to the start of the league."
And why do all the club championships have to start in September when all but 8, at most, counties will be done with intercounty by the end of July? And why can't provincial football and hurling semifinals and finals be on the same weekend? Unless by some miracle some club reaches both? And why does there have to be a 4 week gap between the AIFs and the League?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 25/11/2022 10:25:14    2448671

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Replying To Viking66:  "What's wrong with keeping the finals on Paddy's Day?"
The days of a December provincial final, early or mid February all Ireland semi final and paddy's day final was madness looking back on it.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 427 - 25/11/2022 10:41:53    2448675

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "The days of a December provincial final, early or mid February all Ireland semi final and paddy's day final was madness looking back on it."
Too long between games for sure. Was more making the point that there was no need to wrap up the AI club championships by January. If the provincial championships were run during January what would be wrong with running the AIs in February though? If we have the AI intercounty finals in August.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 25/11/2022 11:18:46    2448679

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Replying To Viking66:  "And why do all the club championships have to start in September when all but 8, at most, counties will be done with intercounty by the end of July? And why can't provincial football and hurling semifinals and finals be on the same weekend? Unless by some miracle some club reaches both? And why does there have to be a 4 week gap between the AIFs and the League?"
The club championships of All-Ireland finalists can only start after those finals. All other club championships can obviously start earlier.
Provincial football and hurling finals semi-finals and finals can of course be played on the same weekend. What happens when a club has success in both codes?
Intercounty players who get all the way to All-Ireland club final day deserve a few weeks rest before the intercounty season begins.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 25/11/2022 17:18:44    2448723

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "I'd have no issues with the club championship running into January, forgetting tradition dragging it out to mid March was absolutely crazy."
Previous All-Ireland club winners have spoken in favour of the finals being scheduled before Christmas. If the inter-county season is remain February to July, the club championships should complete in December. If there can be agreement on March to August for the inter-county, club championships should be able to run until January. If counties don't want club championships starting until September, January finals have to be accepted. Something has to give.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 26/11/2022 10:45:55    2448743

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Replying To Viking66:  "Obviously they can't be the same weekend what planet are you from? No player would be able for 2 championship games in 2 days."
You're thinking more for the dual player of which there few off.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1506 - 26/11/2022 11:57:58    2448747

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