National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Acrually correction the two Fitzgearlds played., Mark is actually Passage.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2371 - 27/10/2022 15:07:35    2445689

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Mickey Harte inspirational?
Sorry but did you see of his teams antics while he was over them?"
Did they hurt your feelings?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11961 - 27/10/2022 15:20:40    2445691

Link

Replying To Canuck:  "It is so long ago since Ballygunner played they have bed sores. Only two of their players played football. Dessie and Coughlan. The inter county club championship should be played early the following year to put everyone on an even footing. Complete shut down Nov. Dec. Jan."
Exactly. It is these competitions causing the issue.

Moving out National Leagues to April would be a big improvement.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3830 - 27/10/2022 15:30:47    2445696

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "You was you plural. Its not all about you lad! And don't get me wrong I'll be very happy to see you win Sam the next few years. Ive been a Tyrone supporter since I lived in Coalisland in the early 90s."
No better place and plenty of craic.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1506 - 27/10/2022 15:50:11    2445698

Link

Replying To Breffni40:  "Did they hurt your feelings?"
Yeah.
The diving, sledging and feigning injury used to do my head in. More horrible to watch than any blanket defence imo.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 27/10/2022 19:17:32    2445722

Link

Replying To Saynothing:  "No better place and plenty of craic."
For sure! Wild times there in my early 20s in the early 90s!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 28/10/2022 08:31:40    2445739

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "Tyrone were finished in the All Ireland on June 5th. What date did the Tyrone championship start?"
It's not just a case of a spur of the moment "oh we are knocked out of the championship so let's start up the club championship the following week". Most counties now plan a calendar from early in the year. If they are counties with aspirations of winning the All Ireland, they will schedule their club championship to begin after the All Ireland final. A planned calendar also enables club players to plan holidays and organise their personal lives as they see fit so starting up the club championship immediately after the county team has been unexpectedly knocked out early is not as straightforward as it might seem at first.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1723 - 28/10/2022 11:21:51    2445764

Link

Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "It's not just a case of a spur of the moment "oh we are knocked out of the championship so let's start up the club championship the following week". Most counties now plan a calendar from early in the year. If they are counties with aspirations of winning the All Ireland, they will schedule their club championship to begin after the All Ireland final. A planned calendar also enables club players to plan holidays and organise their personal lives as they see fit so starting up the club championship immediately after the county team has been unexpectedly knocked out early is not as straightforward as it might seem at first."
Exactly. I think a lot of people are missing an important point here - that the split season wasn't necessarily designed to allow county finals to be played earlier. It was primarily to give certainty to club players about the club calendar.

For example, as far back as February, we in Wexford were able to announce different dates that our club championships would run between, depending on how far our inter-county sides progressed. For example, hurling had different potential start dates between end of June and end of July, and different finish dates between mid and late August. Football would start in late August/early September and be finished on the weekend of October 15/16, to have teams qualified for Leinster competitions the following weekend.

It meant that all club players knew they could take holidays during June without missing a championship match. The ones who don't hurl or who don't take it too seriously knew they could also go during July and most of August. Likewise, the ones who concentrate mainly on hurling and who wouldn't mind missing a football match or two knew the hurling would be done by end of August either way, so they could plan a holiday for September.

That's the sort of certainty that club players seldom if ever had in the past, and there's no reason that other counties couldn't be as organised if they set their minds to it.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1280 - 28/10/2022 12:44:08    2445777

Link

Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "It's not just a case of a spur of the moment "oh we are knocked out of the championship so let's start up the club championship the following week". Most counties now plan a calendar from early in the year. If they are counties with aspirations of winning the All Ireland, they will schedule their club championship to begin after the All Ireland final. A planned calendar also enables club players to plan holidays and organise their personal lives as they see fit so starting up the club championship immediately after the county team has been unexpectedly knocked out early is not as straightforward as it might seem at first."
I am well aware of your first point. I'm not suggesting that happen. But why would a county plan around making an All Ireland final, when even the most successful counties won't make it more often than they will. It wastes weeks in the summer when club players could be playing championship.

As pikeman said above it's a simple case of planning.

- If we are beaten in All Ireland quarter finals or before, the championship will start on X date
- If we are beaten in All Ireland semi finals, the championship will start on X date
- If we get to the All Ireland final, the championship will start on X date.

The vast majority of counties will be finished at quarter finals or before and should (with proper planning) be in a position to start club championships on the first weekend of July.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 464 - 28/10/2022 13:09:58    2445782

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "I am well aware of your first point. I'm not suggesting that happen. But why would a county plan around making an All Ireland final, when even the most successful counties won't make it more often than they will. It wastes weeks in the summer when club players could be playing championship.

As pikeman said above it's a simple case of planning.

- If we are beaten in All Ireland quarter finals or before, the championship will start on X date
- If we are beaten in All Ireland semi finals, the championship will start on X date
- If we get to the All Ireland final, the championship will start on X date.

The vast majority of counties will be finished at quarter finals or before and should (with proper planning) be in a position to start club championships on the first weekend of July."
For sure. Its not rocket science.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 28/10/2022 14:53:21    2445803

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "I am well aware of your first point. I'm not suggesting that happen. But why would a county plan around making an All Ireland final, when even the most successful counties won't make it more often than they will. It wastes weeks in the summer when club players could be playing championship.

As pikeman said above it's a simple case of planning.

- If we are beaten in All Ireland quarter finals or before, the championship will start on X date
- If we are beaten in All Ireland semi finals, the championship will start on X date
- If we get to the All Ireland final, the championship will start on X date.

The vast majority of counties will be finished at quarter finals or before and should (with proper planning) be in a position to start club championships on the first weekend of July."
Rule could be, as soon as your county is out take a two week break and then championship. Could even suit people who want to watch a match in neighbouring counties if they are played in different weeks. I'd go for an odd midweek match in the league to get it over. It's better than training.

Neartheborder (Derry) - Posts: 29 - 29/10/2022 13:37:48    2445857

Link

Replying To Neartheborder:  "Rule could be, as soon as your county is out take a two week break and then championship. Could even suit people who want to watch a match in neighbouring counties if they are played in different weeks. I'd go for an odd midweek match in the league to get it over. It's better than training."
A rule like that wouldn't actually help as regards giving certainty to the club player as to when the club championships would start, which is what one of the main ideas behind the split season was in the first place.

Their county could go out of the championshp sometime in late May, or anytime in June or July. Means their club championship could start anytime from mid-June to early August, and they'd have to wait to see how the county team got on before knowing for sure. Wouldn't be much different from the bad old days for club players.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1280 - 29/10/2022 21:02:56    2445911

Link

Replying To Pikeman96:  "A rule like that wouldn't actually help as regards giving certainty to the club player as to when the club championships would start, which is what one of the main ideas behind the split season was in the first place.

Their county could go out of the championshp sometime in late May, or anytime in June or July. Means their club championship could start anytime from mid-June to early August, and they'd have to wait to see how the county team got on before knowing for sure. Wouldn't be much different from the bad old days for club players."
I think it would be fine to have 2 potential start dates depending on if the county team in either code made the semifinals and also know that they can't begin before August.

I think we've overcorrected and there's too much rigidity in the new system. Something like the above would be a happy medium.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3830 - 30/10/2022 11:32:43    2445940

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "Exactly. It is these competitions causing the issue.

Moving out National Leagues to April would be a big improvement."
Moving the club championships back to Jan/ Feb is not a bad idea. Should they be dropped from the calendar? The leagues start at end of January and conclude in March/April. Under the current championship format the provincial campaigns begin in April, concluding in July.
By starting the leagues in April, when would you start the provincial championships?.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1445 - 30/10/2022 12:24:10    2445942

Link

Replying To thelongridge:  "Moving the club championships back to Jan/ Feb is not a bad idea. Should they be dropped from the calendar? The leagues start at end of January and conclude in March/April. Under the current championship format the provincial campaigns begin in April, concluding in July.
By starting the leagues in April, when would you start the provincial championships?."
My ideal calendar would play the league and provincials in parallel.

2nd April NFL1
9th April NFL2
16th April Provincial Preliminary round
23rd April break
30th April NFL3
7th May NFL4
14th May Provincial Quarterfinals
21st May break
28th May NFL5
4th June NFL6
11th June Provincial Semifinals
18th June break
25th June NFL7
2nd July Provincial finals/All Ireland Round 1
9th July break
16th July All Ireland Round 2
23rd July All Ireland Round 3
30th July Break
6th August All Ireland Quarterfinals
13th August All Semifinals
20th August break
27th August All Ireland final

All Ireland is 6 rounds:

Provincial champions plus 4 best other from league get a bye to round 3
Provincial finalists and 8 other best in league get byes to round 2
Round 1 is between the 16 worst ranked teams not making their provincial final.

No tier 2 championship or group stage All Ireland but that is compensated by having a better league program and games being played at a great time of year for them.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3830 - 30/10/2022 13:00:22    2445943

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "My ideal calendar would play the league and provincials in parallel.

2nd April NFL1
9th April NFL2
16th April Provincial Preliminary round
23rd April break
30th April NFL3
7th May NFL4
14th May Provincial Quarterfinals
21st May break
28th May NFL5
4th June NFL6
11th June Provincial Semifinals
18th June break
25th June NFL7
2nd July Provincial finals/All Ireland Round 1
9th July break
16th July All Ireland Round 2
23rd July All Ireland Round 3
30th July Break
6th August All Ireland Quarterfinals
13th August All Semifinals
20th August break
27th August All Ireland final

All Ireland is 6 rounds:

Provincial champions plus 4 best other from league get a bye to round 3
Provincial finalists and 8 other best in league get byes to round 2
Round 1 is between the 16 worst ranked teams not making their provincial final.

No tier 2 championship or group stage All Ireland but that is compensated by having a better league program and games being played at a great time of year for them."
So take a month off the available club season and leave 99% of players twiddling their thumbs?

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 464 - 30/10/2022 13:25:30    2445946

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "So take a month off the available club season and leave 99% of players twiddling their thumbs?"
No you are adding time to the available club season because Provincial and All Ireland club are being pushed out.

Club leagues without county players are getting played during the April to June period.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3830 - 30/10/2022 14:25:33    2445949

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "No you are adding time to the available club season because Provincial and All Ireland club are being pushed out.

Club leagues without county players are getting played during the April to June period."
In 2022 the quarter finals were on June 26th. Any counties who lost them, or earlier could begin their championship in the first week of July.

Under your schedule all Ireland quarters finals are 6 weeks later. Therefore removing 6 weeks in the summer from the club player to play championship.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 464 - 30/10/2022 15:34:16    2445956

Link

Replying To Onfor15:  "In 2022 the quarter finals were on June 26th. Any counties who lost them, or earlier could begin their championship in the first week of July.

Under your schedule all Ireland quarters finals are 6 weeks later. Therefore removing 6 weeks in the summer from the club player to play championship."
Ok but counties aren't really beginning their championship in July because it's to be their year end competition.

A county championship starting in August can play 12 rounds between 2 codes by the end of October.

If we didn't have a split season something along the following lines code work.

All Ireland club football final 3rd week of February

5th March NFL1
12th March NFL2
19th March break
26th March NFL3
2nd April NFL4
9th April Provincial preliminaries
16th April Club hurling
23rd April Club football
30th April NFL5
7th May Provincial Quarterfinals
14th May Club hurling
21st May Club football
28th May NFL6
4th June Provincial Semifinals
11th June Club hurling
18th June Club football
25th June NFL7
2nd July Provincial finals/ All Ireland round 1
9th July Break
16th July All Ireland round 2
23rd July All Ireland round 3
30th July break
6th August All Ireland quarterfinals
13th August All Ireland semifinals
20th August break
27th August All Ireland final

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3830 - 30/10/2022 16:42:14    2445968

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "Ok but counties aren't really beginning their championship in July because it's to be their year end competition.

A county championship starting in August can play 12 rounds between 2 codes by the end of October.

If we didn't have a split season something along the following lines code work.

All Ireland club football final 3rd week of February

5th March NFL1
12th March NFL2
19th March break
26th March NFL3
2nd April NFL4
9th April Provincial preliminaries
16th April Club hurling
23rd April Club football
30th April NFL5
7th May Provincial Quarterfinals
14th May Club hurling
21st May Club football
28th May NFL6
4th June Provincial Semifinals
11th June Club hurling
18th June Club football
25th June NFL7
2nd July Provincial finals/ All Ireland round 1
9th July Break
16th July All Ireland round 2
23rd July All Ireland round 3
30th July break
6th August All Ireland quarterfinals
13th August All Ireland semifinals
20th August break
27th August All Ireland final"
Ahh will you stop.
New system voted in by about 90 -10 last February.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 30/10/2022 16:59:43    2445970

Link