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Look, over the course of an hour, and definitely over the course of a season, decisions always even themselves out. No matter how aggrieved a team is or how much they feel a referee is "giving us nothing" or they were "robbed".
I never feel any referee goes out to "do a team" or should be "ashamed of themselves". Every decision in a hurling or football game is an interpretation by one individual. If you showed 10 referees 10 decisions, you would probably get 45+ different opinions on those 10 decisions.
Coaches and mentors are naturally biased so add that into the mix with a few big decisions and you have a toxic cocktail.
I have long advocated that the refereeing team need to be viewed as a unit, and the linesmen in big games are always referees as well. One or other of them must have seen the dunt the Kilrush hurler gave the Taghmon player. How did he not help the referee? From either side?
I am happy that Eamon Furlong is in the middle on Sunday, if he keeps going the way he is he will be an inter county referee in a year or two. I have a couple of experiences with him from underage and he always talks to the player, explains his decisions and we spoke to him a couple of years ago coming off the pitch to ask him what he saw was wrong with how we were tackling. No shouting, no arguing, just telling us how he saw it. Best of luck to him.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 10/08/2022 09:22:05
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I think that when it comes to under-age teams over the last ten years, both the Martin's and Gorey have nearly always been Premier. But I think there is one crucial difference between them: Gorey tend to have a few stand-out hurlers whereas the Martin's have much better depth i.e. Gorey's best hurler would be as good as the Martin's best hurler but the Martin's 15th best hurler would be better than Gorey's 15th best hurler. The thing is though that if you're the 15th best hurler at your club in Premier under-age, you're probably good enough to go on and be Intermediate A rather than Junior A but you're not good enough to go on and be Senior IMO. So even though the Martin's used to always beat Gorey at under-age, their advantage was smaller at Senior level as Gorey were able to blood through as many top under-age hurlers as the Martin's. The problem then for Gorey is that whilst having a lot of depth at under-age means the Martin's have a very strong second team, Gorey have a much weaker second team. So while I don't think having their second team in Junior A is great for Gorey, the problem is moreso at under-age despite the fact they nearly always hurl in Premier." That's a little simplistic. Alot of good underage players will move away for college and then work. Others will also be good at other sports and will choose to play these as adults. At then end of the day while having a good, or even a few good underage team(s) is very important, it's more important to have a few standout players each year that will commit to playing for their club as adults.
Finally many players are physically late developers. They might not stand out at minor but might be excellent adult hurlers.
Or even some lads come to hurling or football later and it takes longer for them to improve their hurling expecially as a result. Best example would be Lee Chin, whose hurling was a little untidy underage, something that couldn't be said the last few years.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 10/08/2022 09:48:50
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Look, over the course of an hour, and definitely over the course of a season, decisions always even themselves out. No matter how aggrieved a team is or how much they feel a referee is "giving us nothing" or they were "robbed".
I never feel any referee goes out to "do a team" or should be "ashamed of themselves". Every decision in a hurling or football game is an interpretation by one individual. If you showed 10 referees 10 decisions, you would probably get 45+ different opinions on those 10 decisions.
Coaches and mentors are naturally biased so add that into the mix with a few big decisions and you have a toxic cocktail.
I have long advocated that the refereeing team need to be viewed as a unit, and the linesmen in big games are always referees as well. One or other of them must have seen the dunt the Kilrush hurler gave the Taghmon player. How did he not help the referee? From either side?
I am happy that Eamon Furlong is in the middle on Sunday, if he keeps going the way he is he will be an inter county referee in a year or two. I have a couple of experiences with him from underage and he always talks to the player, explains his decisions and we spoke to him a couple of years ago coming off the pitch to ask him what he saw was wrong with how we were tackling. No shouting, no arguing, just telling us how he saw it. Best of luck to him." Eamonn is a very good ref, best of luck to him sunday
lefty (Wexford) - Posts: 185 - 10/08/2022 09:54:52
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Look, over the course of an hour, and definitely over the course of a season, decisions always even themselves out. No matter how aggrieved a team is or how much they feel a referee is "giving us nothing" or they were "robbed".
I never feel any referee goes out to "do a team" or should be "ashamed of themselves". Every decision in a hurling or football game is an interpretation by one individual. If you showed 10 referees 10 decisions, you would probably get 45+ different opinions on those 10 decisions.
Coaches and mentors are naturally biased so add that into the mix with a few big decisions and you have a toxic cocktail.
I have long advocated that the refereeing team need to be viewed as a unit, and the linesmen in big games are always referees as well. One or other of them must have seen the dunt the Kilrush hurler gave the Taghmon player. How did he not help the referee? From either side?
I am happy that Eamon Furlong is in the middle on Sunday, if he keeps going the way he is he will be an inter county referee in a year or two. I have a couple of experiences with him from underage and he always talks to the player, explains his decisions and we spoke to him a couple of years ago coming off the pitch to ask him what he saw was wrong with how we were tackling. No shouting, no arguing, just telling us how he saw it. Best of luck to him." Happy that Eamonn Furlong is getting the final. it shows that if you are good and interested to ref you can come up the ranks quickly. I reckon Thomas Furlong will probably get the Football final this year too. - so there are some up and coming referees in Wexford
Unfortunately i dont think Eamonn can go forward for inter county - if im right i think he is 40 this year which rules him out - stupid system - if you dont get onto the intercounty panel before you are 38 you cant get onto it - but once you are on it you can stay on until you are 50. Doesn't make sense on any level.
Best of luck to Eamonn on sunday.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 10/08/2022 10:08:24
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Replying To indaknownow: "Happy that Eamonn Furlong is getting the final. it shows that if you are good and interested to ref you can come up the ranks quickly. I reckon Thomas Furlong will probably get the Football final this year too. - so there are some up and coming referees in Wexford
Unfortunately i dont think Eamonn can go forward for inter county - if im right i think he is 40 this year which rules him out - stupid system - if you dont get onto the intercounty panel before you are 38 you cant get onto it - but once you are on it you can stay on until you are 50. Doesn't make sense on any level.
Best of luck to Eamonn on sunday." He was linesman for the Leinster minor hurling final earlier this year, refereed by a Wexford native representing Westmeath Caymon Flynn. So he must be on the panel already.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1409 - 10/08/2022 11:06:25
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Replying To beano: "He was linesman for the Leinster minor hurling final earlier this year, refereed by a Wexford native representing Westmeath Caymon Flynn. So he must be on the panel already." Thats Good News - glad to hear that
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 10/08/2022 12:03:25
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That is crazy.
It alienates the top player from ending his hurling career circa 40 years of age, and then decides to referee.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 10/08/2022 12:15:33
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Eamonn is a top referee and SUndays gig is well deserved.
Predictions for the Weekend:
Senior - This should be a tight one, hopefully will be a humdinger to match. I'm surprised that Ferns are favourites. St Martins missing all their stars may be a good thing as the other players they have are also quality and have had to step up to the mark, which they have done. Ferns were going to be the next big thing in 2012, and never managed to kick on. I'll go with Ferns after extra time!
Intermediate - Taghmon will out up a mighty fight but probably lack a bit of quality. In saying that Oulart haven't turned into Ballyhale overnight and will need to be at their best. Oulart by 4
Inter A - Horeswood were far too good for Junior last year, and look to do back to back titles. I'll back them to do so with 2-3 points to spare. Liam Mellows have lots of athletes, but probably lack a few star hurlers. Someone said Liam Coleman is hurt too, this would be a huge loss.
Junior - Davidstown have some lovely hurlers (Shore, Dunne, Furlong) with County experience, Wex Park should suit D Dunne, especially at this level. Barntown have 3-4 that should probably be playing Senior and would have been training at that level. In saying that Davidstown prob have 6-7 that would hurl at Senior level too. I'll back the Enniscorthy District men by 3. On a side note, this may not be about the hurling, this may well be the Sean Whelan Show! Especially with the big crowd expected due to Senior game following!
Junior A - Clongeen have been knocking on the door for a long time, I'll give them the verdict here with 4-5 to spare. Ballyhogue will be fit and strong but prob lack the hurling that some of the Clongeen lads have.
rossytilidie (Wexford) - Posts: 300 - 11/08/2022 11:04:10
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So whats the thoughts on the games for the weekend.
Senior - I fancy Ferns, the second half of the match between these two in the group stages was epic. I note that the martins have only got 4 goals in the championship whereas Ferns have got 15. But Martins got 2 of their 4 goals against Ferns. I am hoping for a great game. and i think Ferns will just get by, by a point or 2.
Intermediate - Cant see past Oulart Here, These sides met in the Second Game of the group and i think there was something like a 18 point margin. I feel that Taghmon have improved and will close the gap to a single digit margin but i'm expecting there to be 8 points in it to Oulart.
Intermediate A - This is a tough one to call - After their promotion last year Horeswood didn't exactly sparkle in the group stage. but they have been impressive against more fancied opposition in the knock out rounds. Liam Mellows have been consistent all year barring a largely irrelevant loss to Shels in the final group game. It would be some achievement for Horeswood to put back to back Champ wins but it think Liam Mellows will shade this by a couple of points.
Junior - Glynn Barntown seem to be the form team but it would appear that they were in the Weaker group so hard to judge. Davidstown have to be fancied on the basis that its a first team V's a second string and they have a potential match winner in David Dunne who should really stand out at this grade. I'm going for Davidstown but not by much.
Junior A - Clongeen have been knocking on the door at this grade for a few years - i think it is their third final so im going to back them to make it third time lucky by about 6 points.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 11/08/2022 12:25:59
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Replying To indaknownow: "So whats the thoughts on the games for the weekend.
Senior - I fancy Ferns, the second half of the match between these two in the group stages was epic. I note that the martins have only got 4 goals in the championship whereas Ferns have got 15. But Martins got 2 of their 4 goals against Ferns. I am hoping for a great game. and i think Ferns will just get by, by a point or 2.
Intermediate - Cant see past Oulart Here, These sides met in the Second Game of the group and i think there was something like a 18 point margin. I feel that Taghmon have improved and will close the gap to a single digit margin but i'm expecting there to be 8 points in it to Oulart.
Intermediate A - This is a tough one to call - After their promotion last year Horeswood didn't exactly sparkle in the group stage. but they have been impressive against more fancied opposition in the knock out rounds. Liam Mellows have been consistent all year barring a largely irrelevant loss to Shels in the final group game. It would be some achievement for Horeswood to put back to back Champ wins but it think Liam Mellows will shade this by a couple of points.
Junior - Glynn Barntown seem to be the form team but it would appear that they were in the Weaker group so hard to judge. Davidstown have to be fancied on the basis that its a first team V's a second string and they have a potential match winner in David Dunne who should really stand out at this grade. I'm going for Davidstown but not by much.
Junior A - Clongeen have been knocking on the door at this grade for a few years - i think it is their third final so im going to back them to make it third time lucky by about 6 points." An 18 point margin? You're half right, it was 36 points. 7-28 to 1-10
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 11/08/2022 12:52:08
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It'll be the sixth year on the trot that the title wasn't defended, going back to Oulart in 2016. That matches a similar sequence to 1947-52 (Adamstown, Rathnure, Cloughbawn, Rathnure, Cloughbawn, St.Aidan's). More recently, between 1995 and 2002, no team retained their title- Rathnure won three, Oulart two, and one apiece from St.Martin's, St.Anne's and Harriers.
We've a long way to go to match the current longest streak of consecutive winners. Remarkably, no one managed back-to-back between St.Aidan's last title in 1959 and Rathnure winning their first of four-in-a-row in 1971. It was a golden era for town teams really back then, with Harriers winning three titles in the intervening years, Shamrocks their only two, and Geraldine O'Hanrahan's one as well in 1966.
Back to the present, I think given their run through the championship, and the manner of some of their victories, I have to side with Ferns as well. They are the best goalscorers in the grade this year, and if you were picking a team of the championship, they'd have a few locked-in as it stands, with Martin's maybe only having Joe Coleman. The aforementioned absentees for Martin's means that they probably need everyone to max out their effort levels every day, and while they have Daithí and Willie Devereux to bring in, they are known as defenders and thus wouldn't have the same explosive impact that Ferns possess on the bench.
Match-ups are obviously going to be key. Patrick Breen has been the designated "shut-down" defender the last couple of games. John Leacy was largely anonymous in the QF, and while Kevin Foley stamped his class on Sunday, Breen still played his part and set up the all-important goal. Might follow Jake Firman everywhere this time around. I assume Eoin Murphy will slug it out with Joe Coleman, and Niall will take Kyle Firman.
Ferns' wider array of scoring forwards means that it'll be a tougher task to keep everyone quiet. You'd imagine Conor Firman will pick up Morris, but he's a different proposition to Mac in that hell drift around and will always find space (Gorey are almost TOO one dimensional in their use of Mac). It'll be interesting to see whether Diarmuid Doyle will be held in reserve again- to me he has been one of the more under-rated performers in the championship, but understand that his impact off the bench the last day mightn't be replicated by anyone else. Love to see a direct battle between Byrne-Dunbar and Barrett (two lads with an intercounty future).
I am really looking forward to the game, and will travel down to my first senior hurling final since 2018. I think it's quite similar to last year in that it features one side that hadn't been in a final in a while that may have been beset by nerves, against a team more experienced with the big day, and it didn't work out too bad for Rapps after. Ferns came so close to topping the legendary Oulart team in 2013, and I think they will go one step better this time around.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1409 - 11/08/2022 13:02:59
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Replying To Onfor15: "First final in over 20 years? Are you sure?
I don't think Taghmon have ever played in an intermediate final" According to Aherne in the paper Taghmon (Camross) reached a final in 1960 but there was some dispute and they conceded a walkover
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 11/08/2022 14:26:56
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Martin's to win on Sunday, and win the football then, St martin's for the double
Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 431 - 11/08/2022 14:48:31
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Best of luck to all teams in county final action this weekend. Best of luck to Eamonn Furlong also. I would love to have seen tg4's plan to have the ref mic in place. I think it would give a great insight into the reasoning behind why certain decisions are made. As a side note, who do people regard as the best referees in the county?
Monica (Wexford) - Posts: 31 - 12/08/2022 11:13:45
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Replying To Monica: "Best of luck to all teams in county final action this weekend. Best of luck to Eamonn Furlong also. I would love to have seen tg4's plan to have the ref mic in place. I think it would give a great insight into the reasoning behind why certain decisions are made. As a side note, who do people regard as the best referees in the county?" The 10 best referees in the county in my opinion, in no particular order:
Eamonn Furlong, James Owens, Dan Crosby, Justin Heffernan, John Carton, Barry Redmond, Matt Kinaird, John O'Loughlin, Thomas Furlong, Niall McDonald. David O'Leary despite his bad mistake last week is decent enough too, so is Shane Quinn but he is still playing and that probably impacts on the games he can be given.
Last weekend was a bad weekend for the referees in some of the big games, but to be fair the general standard at the top for the last few seasons is decent enough bar one or two individuals who are consistently poor yet continue to get big games.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 12/08/2022 12:13:22
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Lads, share your club hurling all stars 1 to 15 after Sundays games and I'll compile.
Closing date for nominations Friday evening.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 374 - 12/08/2022 12:28:59
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Replying To Onfor15: "First final in over 20 years? Are you sure?
I don't think Taghmon have ever played in an intermediate final" your right they never played in a final, gave a W O in 1960 final, but were in it, my father and uncle were on team
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2840 - 12/08/2022 12:39:32
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Replying To Onfor15: "The 10 best referees in the county in my opinion, in no particular order:
Eamonn Furlong, James Owens, Dan Crosby, Justin Heffernan, John Carton, Barry Redmond, Matt Kinaird, John O'Loughlin, Thomas Furlong, Niall McDonald. David O'Leary despite his bad mistake last week is decent enough too, so is Shane Quinn but he is still playing and that probably impacts on the games he can be given.
Last weekend was a bad weekend for the referees in some of the big games, but to be fair the general standard at the top for the last few seasons is decent enough bar one or two individuals who are consistently poor yet continue to get big games." The problem with naming the best 10 refs is you inevitably have the "This referee gave us nothing or didn't give us a certain free near the end and cost us the match" person.
But I concur with the list Onfor15, I think they are all good referees and the common denominator they nearly all have is they talk to the players, explain decisions.
I am not around Wexford long enough to remember them but I would hazard a guess they all played hurling at a high club level. I remember Niall McDonald from Wexford teams late 80's early 90's I am guessing? I read somewhere than Dan Crosby is a Kilkenny man.
Look, when all is said and done most referees are decent honourable men, none ever went out to have a bad match any more than a player did. And unlike the "Twitter refs", they have the bravery to go out and put themselves in to the line of fire.
The deserve more respect than they get.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 12/08/2022 13:52:55
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Replying To Stmunnsriver: "your right they never played in a final, gave a W O in 1960 final, but were in it, my father and uncle were on team" Did they play on the Junior team in the 59 final? How did the team end up in the Intermediate final after losing the 59 Junior final replay to Shamrocks? Why was the 1960 game conceded?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 12/08/2022 16:07:21
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Not great news from Brendan Furlong. Paudie Foley apparently travelling to Oz from now til the end of 2023. Kevin Foley and the 2 Recks travelling there also, probably (hopefully!!) just until the end of the year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 12/08/2022 17:30:40
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