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Replying To beano: "I think an argument can be made that playing junior A isn't helping Gorey's seniors in the long-run. And aside from getting to the final in 2019, they aren't overly competitive in it either. Jack Cullen was carrying a knock all game, and Mac is in a protective boot since so looks like was playing through the pain barrier as well. But why couldn't they dip into their reserves, especially when we hear about all these young fellas coming through, and they are able to field two junior B teams?
Cian O'Tuama looks to be a real talent coming through, and scored well for their second team- surely he'd be worth a punt off the bench? Benny and Pedro Travers are surely no longer in the tooth than some of their contemporaries. In fairness to Martin's, they aren't afraid to spring someone from their second teams (Maddock played a game or two with their inter A's before making his return to the seniors). Maybe the gap between first team and second team is too big for Gorey, from what I can see of all the senior teams, their second team play at the lowest grade." Aaron Maddock was one of the best 5 players on the Wexford u21 team he played on in 2018 along with ROC, Damien Reck, Ian Carthy and Seamus Casey. It was a strong team with Rowan White, Shane Reck, Joe O Connor, Darren Byrne, Conor Firman, Oisin Foley, Mikie Dwyer, Gary Molloy and Rory Higgins on it also. They were desperately unlucky in the Leinster final against Galway only losing by a point to a last minute goal at the end of extra time. If he was around the whole time since I'm sure he'd be an automatic starter for Martins 1st team.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 09/08/2022 11:13:54
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Replying To beano: "I think an argument can be made that playing junior A isn't helping Gorey's seniors in the long-run. And aside from getting to the final in 2019, they aren't overly competitive in it either. Jack Cullen was carrying a knock all game, and Mac is in a protective boot since so looks like was playing through the pain barrier as well. But why couldn't they dip into their reserves, especially when we hear about all these young fellas coming through, and they are able to field two junior B teams?
Cian O'Tuama looks to be a real talent coming through, and scored well for their second team- surely he'd be worth a punt off the bench? Benny and Pedro Travers are surely no longer in the tooth than some of their contemporaries. In fairness to Martin's, they aren't afraid to spring someone from their second teams (Maddock played a game or two with their inter A's before making his return to the seniors). Maybe the gap between first team and second team is too big for Gorey, from what I can see of all the senior teams, their second team play at the lowest grade." In relation to your last sentence
Second teams
Inter A: Shels, St Martin's
Junior: Glynn, Rapps, Ferns, Harriers, Rathnure
Junior A: Gorey, Oylegate, St Anne's, Cloughbawn
Junior B: Crossabeg
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 09/08/2022 11:42:30
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Replying To Viking66: "Aaron Maddock was one of the best 5 players on the Wexford u21 team he played on in 2018 along with ROC, Damien Reck, Ian Carthy and Seamus Casey. It was a strong team with Rowan White, Shane Reck, Joe O Connor, Darren Byrne, Conor Firman, Oisin Foley, Mikie Dwyer, Gary Molloy and Rory Higgins on it also. They were desperately unlucky in the Leinster final against Galway only losing by a point to a last minute goal at the end of extra time. If he was around the whole time since I'm sure he'd be an automatic starter for Martins 1st team." I understand that. I just find it incredible that Gorey, for all the talent coming through at underage since Mac's age-group to present day, that they don't seem to have the panel to contend. I know Dunbar was injured, but Ferns are without Bailey all season, while Jacko joined his brother on the injury list for Martin's as well. It just seems they have the core starting team, but very little impact otherwise, which is crazy considering they fielded four adult hurling teams this year.
Maybe it's a management thing, I don't know. And yeah I was a bit off thinking they had the lowest ranked second team in senior, my mind was a bit mush typing it. But it certainly doesn't help.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1409 - 09/08/2022 12:09:08
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Replying To Viking66: "Was just about to post that myself. Taghmons 1st Intermediate hurling final in over 20 years for a club that hasn't been senior since the early 50s. Hardly nothing to lose!" Yeah, it is always said no matter who is playing if there is a rank outsider, "they have nothing to lose". It is patronising and I have no doubt Taghmon, outsiders or not, are not going in to just put out 15 and lie down. I think Oulart will win but I do not think it'll be as one-sided as the group game.
The senior is very 50-50. Ferns need to take every chance they get and perform like they did during the group stages. If they do it, and don't have any of nearly costly wides v Rapps, they will bring the cup back. I did not think they had never won it but then realised St. Aidan's were an Enniscorthy team? Did they fold?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 09/08/2022 12:14:16
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Replying To beano: "I understand that. I just find it incredible that Gorey, for all the talent coming through at underage since Mac's age-group to present day, that they don't seem to have the panel to contend. I know Dunbar was injured, but Ferns are without Bailey all season, while Jacko joined his brother on the injury list for Martin's as well. It just seems they have the core starting team, but very little impact otherwise, which is crazy considering they fielded four adult hurling teams this year.
Maybe it's a management thing, I don't know. And yeah I was a bit off thinking they had the lowest ranked second team in senior, my mind was a bit mush typing it. But it certainly doesn't help." Its a good point. I saw Goreys second team in action and I can say that there would be a couple of them playing that were definitely still good enough senior.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 09/08/2022 12:39:35
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Yeah, it is always said no matter who is playing if there is a rank outsider, "they have nothing to lose". It is patronising and I have no doubt Taghmon, outsiders or not, are not going in to just put out 15 and lie down. I think Oulart will win but I do not think it'll be as one-sided as the group game.
The senior is very 50-50. Ferns need to take every chance they get and perform like they did during the group stages. If they do it, and don't have any of nearly costly wides v Rapps, they will bring the cup back. I did not think they had never won it but then realised St. Aidan's were an Enniscorthy team? Did they fold?" Ironically enough, bearing in mind your recent posts!!!, they amalgamated with Shamrocks in 1971. They hadnt bothered fielding underage and junior teams for some time before this. According to Richie Peare .
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 09/08/2022 12:47:10
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Replying To Viking66: "Was just about to post that myself. Taghmons 1st Intermediate hurling final in over 20 years for a club that hasn't been senior since the early 50s. Hardly nothing to lose!" First final in over 20 years? Are you sure?
I don't think Taghmon have ever played in an intermediate final
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 09/08/2022 13:29:02
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Replying To beano: "I understand that. I just find it incredible that Gorey, for all the talent coming through at underage since Mac's age-group to present day, that they don't seem to have the panel to contend. I know Dunbar was injured, but Ferns are without Bailey all season, while Jacko joined his brother on the injury list for Martin's as well. It just seems they have the core starting team, but very little impact otherwise, which is crazy considering they fielded four adult hurling teams this year.
Maybe it's a management thing, I don't know. And yeah I was a bit off thinking they had the lowest ranked second team in senior, my mind was a bit mush typing it. But it certainly doesn't help." Agree Beano - and can't consider Dunbar as one that came through their underage either !
grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 166 - 09/08/2022 13:56:43
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Replying To Onfor15: "First final in over 20 years? Are you sure?
I don't think Taghmon have ever played in an intermediate final" You are right. Last good team we had only nearly made the final they lost out after an epic series of battles against Bunclody in the late 90s I think it was. This is the 1st time we made an Intermediate final the last times we went up to Senior in the 40s or 50s there was no Intermediate Championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 09/08/2022 14:00:06
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Replying To grassroots01: "Agree Beano - and can't consider Dunbar as one that came through their underage either !" Ballygarrett got relegated this year sadly for them.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 09/08/2022 14:16:35
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Replying To beano: "No-one can accept a defeat anymore in the age of social media. That was a bad call, but solely on the umpire who waved it wide. From my watching of the game, the referee was bad for both sides. There were the typical time wasting antics and niggly stoppages in the allotted injury-time, so he was well within his rights to add a bit more. Ruth would have played with Redmond too at county level, it's not a good look if you ask me.
I would have said that not pushing on playing against fourteen men with the wind was a bigger reason Rapps didn't win. That and the penalty miss- Foley shouldn't have been in a position to take it in the first place as he couldn't have been right after the bang. They also tired badly in the second half, and it can't be down to the number of games as Ferns were in the exact same boat.
Easier to pin the blame elsewhere though." Have to agree with you. I didn't think the referee was great on sunday but i didnt think he was particularly unfair on either side. It was a horrendous call for the Jack kelly point But i'd blame the Linseman who was straight behind it for not calling it. I'm told that there was a previous point awarded to the rapps on the other side which was wide so maybe those things balance out.
Wasn't a good weekend for the men in the middle this weekend - i was at all 5 games in the park and 3 of the referees were poor i thought. unfortunately the Non Red Card has gone viral with 100k hits.
Hoping for better this weekend to my mind 3 of the top 5 refs are on the 3 big finals this weekend.
fearcliste (Wexford) - Posts: 178 - 09/08/2022 15:01:36
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Replying To fearcliste: "Have to agree with you. I didn't think the referee was great on sunday but i didnt think he was particularly unfair on either side. It was a horrendous call for the Jack kelly point But i'd blame the Linseman who was straight behind it for not calling it. I'm told that there was a previous point awarded to the rapps on the other side which was wide so maybe those things balance out.
Wasn't a good weekend for the men in the middle this weekend - i was at all 5 games in the park and 3 of the referees were poor i thought. unfortunately the Non Red Card has gone viral with 100k hits.
Hoping for better this weekend to my mind 3 of the top 5 refs are on the 3 big finals this weekend." Unfortunately the refereeing in both semi finals was poor. Ferns were the better team overall on the day, but the referee completely dogged the Rapps in the latter stages of the second half in particular. The linesman at the far side in second half didn't cover himself in glory either.
In the intermediate the man at the centre of the viral hit actually had an excellent game overall except for that one awful decision. While the other semi final was refereed only ok.
The relegation final was well refereed.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 09/08/2022 15:45:58
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Replying To Viking66: "Ironically enough, bearing in mind your recent posts!!!, they amalgamated with Shamrocks in 1971. They hadnt bothered fielding underage and junior teams for some time before this. According to Richie Peare ." Well there you go then, isn't every day a school day!!!
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 09/08/2022 15:53:08
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Viking/JimbobD,
I am not being negative/hostile, nor do I have a problem with hard, fair play. And at times, the red mist descends against any club but generally with the right people involved it can be calmed down at underage.
But I am not alone in holding the views I have of the Shamrocks and far from being based on 30 years ago, they are based on recent years albeit not this year. But I have witnessed first hand, more than once some awful stuff which has no place on a hurling pitch and especially not at underage level.
I will qualify what I say by highlighting that at adult level it is not a problem with this club from what I have seen over the years. In fact, the opposite is the case at adult level to their credit.
And I appreciate it is not the more affluent part of town, but I grew up hurling in Dublin and playing teams from similarly socially disadvantaged areas so I do know what I am talking about here." You also wouldn't have been the first person on here to express the same opinion. It has been my experience as well, perhaps we have been unlucky and also I will note that away they are a different proposition. The lads on the field react to what is happening on the line and unfortunately a club cannot stop people from turning up which happens when the games are at home. Look, it happened in my own club when I was playing underage, the rows on the line were madness back then. Thank god times have changed but it only takes one to spoil it for everyone and the club.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 09/08/2022 16:54:41
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Replying To fearcliste: "Have to agree with you. I didn't think the referee was great on sunday but i didnt think he was particularly unfair on either side. It was a horrendous call for the Jack kelly point But i'd blame the Linseman who was straight behind it for not calling it. I'm told that there was a previous point awarded to the rapps on the other side which was wide so maybe those things balance out.
Wasn't a good weekend for the men in the middle this weekend - i was at all 5 games in the park and 3 of the referees were poor i thought. unfortunately the Non Red Card has gone viral with 100k hits.
Hoping for better this weekend to my mind 3 of the top 5 refs are on the 3 big finals this weekend." Linesman can't actually be blamed for that Jack Kelly "point" because the rule book sets out that a linesman only has a role in determining if a shot is a score or not if he's asked for an opinion by the referee. He can't just step in himself. Maybe it's a rule that should be changed (and maybe the Rapps will bring that motion!), but that's as it stands for now.
Anyway, as you also say yourself, I also thought there was one the other way at a different stage of the game, when a Rapps shot that looked clearly wide was given as a point instead. It's often said that these sort of things even themselves out in the long run - maybe these evened themselves out in an hour or so.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2229 - 09/08/2022 16:56:18
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Replying To fearcliste: "Have to agree with you. I didn't think the referee was great on sunday but i didnt think he was particularly unfair on either side. It was a horrendous call for the Jack kelly point But i'd blame the Linseman who was straight behind it for not calling it. I'm told that there was a previous point awarded to the rapps on the other side which was wide so maybe those things balance out.
Wasn't a good weekend for the men in the middle this weekend - i was at all 5 games in the park and 3 of the referees were poor i thought. unfortunately the Non Red Card has gone viral with 100k hits.
Hoping for better this weekend to my mind 3 of the top 5 refs are on the 3 big finals this weekend." Buff Egan put it up on Twitter. Happened right in front of me. Unbelievably bad call. Jenkins sent off the Alley man for something similar in the 2nd game.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 09/08/2022 17:22:02
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Replying To Onfor15: "Unfortunately the refereeing in both semi finals was poor. Ferns were the better team overall on the day, but the referee completely dogged the Rapps in the latter stages of the second half in particular. The linesman at the far side in second half didn't cover himself in glory either.
In the intermediate the man at the centre of the viral hit actually had an excellent game overall except for that one awful decision. While the other semi final was refereed only ok.
The relegation final was well refereed." Agreed I think O Leary did better than Jenkins overall.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11734 - 09/08/2022 17:24:02
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Tickets not available online yet for the senior final.
Strange that they are leaving it so late. Intermediate final tickets are available online. Of course that game is on Saturday so maybe they will go on sale tomorrow ( Wednesday).
Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 260 - 09/08/2022 18:29:42
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Replying To beano: "I think an argument can be made that playing junior A isn't helping Gorey's seniors in the long-run. And aside from getting to the final in 2019, they aren't overly competitive in it either. Jack Cullen was carrying a knock all game, and Mac is in a protective boot since so looks like was playing through the pain barrier as well. But why couldn't they dip into their reserves, especially when we hear about all these young fellas coming through, and they are able to field two junior B teams?
Cian O'Tuama looks to be a real talent coming through, and scored well for their second team- surely he'd be worth a punt off the bench? Benny and Pedro Travers are surely no longer in the tooth than some of their contemporaries. In fairness to Martin's, they aren't afraid to spring someone from their second teams (Maddock played a game or two with their inter A's before making his return to the seniors). Maybe the gap between first team and second team is too big for Gorey, from what I can see of all the senior teams, their second team play at the lowest grade." I think that when it comes to under-age teams over the last ten years, both the Martin's and Gorey have nearly always been Premier. But I think there is one crucial difference between them: Gorey tend to have a few stand-out hurlers whereas the Martin's have much better depth i.e. Gorey's best hurler would be as good as the Martin's best hurler but the Martin's 15th best hurler would be better than Gorey's 15th best hurler. The thing is though that if you're the 15th best hurler at your club in Premier under-age, you're probably good enough to go on and be Intermediate A rather than Junior A but you're not good enough to go on and be Senior IMO. So even though the Martin's used to always beat Gorey at under-age, their advantage was smaller at Senior level as Gorey were able to blood through as many top under-age hurlers as the Martin's. The problem then for Gorey is that whilst having a lot of depth at under-age means the Martin's have a very strong second team, Gorey have a much weaker second team. So while I don't think having their second team in Junior A is great for Gorey, the problem is moreso at under-age despite the fact they nearly always hurl in Premier.
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 215 - 09/08/2022 19:30:48
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Linesman can't actually be blamed for that Jack Kelly "point" because the rule book sets out that a linesman only has a role in determining if a shot is a score or not if he's asked for an opinion by the referee. He can't just step in himself. Maybe it's a rule that should be changed (and maybe the Rapps will bring that motion!), but that's as it stands for now.
Anyway, as you also say yourself, I also thought there was one the other way at a different stage of the game, when a Rapps shot that looked clearly wide was given as a point instead. It's often said that these sort of things even themselves out in the long run - maybe these evened themselves out in an hour or so." I know you are correct in the rule regarding the linesman. But fair is fair. Where the linesman was standing he should have had the perfect angle to see that it was a score. I know the linesmans flags in wexford park have a buzzer on them he could have given the ref a buzz (literally!!) and the ref could have come over and consulted. and they would have got the decision right.
I see this morning Wexford park have a post up about improper use of social media. I presume this is in relation to Skippys Tweets. I hear there were a few texts sent to some of the officials involved in Sundays game also. There could be some fall out from this yet.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 10/08/2022 09:01:17
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